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TomCADem

(17,387 posts)
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 02:52 PM Nov 2013

Netanyahu: Iran Nuclear Deal A 'Historic Mistake'

Source: Huffington Post

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel's prime minister harshly condemned the international community's nuclear deal with Iran on Sunday, calling it a "historic mistake" and saying he was not bound by the agreement.

Speaking to his Cabinet, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the world had become a "more dangerous place" as a result of the deal and reiterated a long-standing threat to use military action against Iran if needed, declaring that Israel "has the right and the duty to defend itself by itself."

Israel believes Iran is trying to develop a nuclear weapon, and in the weeks leading up to Sunday's agreement, Netanyahu had warned the emerging deal was insufficient.

He had called for increased pressure on Iran, and warned that any relief from economic sanctions would make Iran less willing to compromise during a coming, six-month period aimed at reaching a final agreement.


Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/24/netanyahu-iran-deal-israel-nuclear_n_4332906.html?utm_hp_ref=world



Israel should consider itself lucky that its own nuclear program was not discussed in the deal.
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Netanyahu: Iran Nuclear Deal A 'Historic Mistake' (Original Post) TomCADem Nov 2013 OP
Oh, shut up and get back to stealing Palestinian land. Comrade Grumpy Nov 2013 #1
ITA! I'm sick of the God's Chosen People card being played........ TheDebbieDee Nov 2013 #6
Exactly. SoapBox Nov 2013 #10
+1 Snowfield Nov 2013 #22
This. LeftOfWest Nov 2013 #11
I concur, Nut-n-yahoo and his cronies refuse to allow c588415 Nov 2013 #18
Hmmm so a deal that would take Nukes out of the hands of your BIGGEST enemy is a mistake????? Heather MC Nov 2013 #2
when ya love excuses for killing brown folks iamthebandfanman Nov 2013 #5
I have seen your future, Bibi BeyondGeography Nov 2013 #3
ill tell ya what was a historic mistake.. iamthebandfanman Nov 2013 #4
But They Had The RIGHT to do that Wolf Frankula Nov 2013 #24
Netanyahu is an 'Historic Mistake' pangaia Nov 2013 #7
Thanks for using proper grammar. Indi Guy Nov 2013 #14
Glad you noticed. pangaia Nov 2013 #15
I noticed too! :) Cha Nov 2013 #17
I actually had points taken off an historic report in college for using it. n/t madeline_con Nov 2013 #47
Its that crazy mentality that many have... Lobo27 Nov 2013 #8
Netanyahu is the historic mistake. blackspade Nov 2013 #9
This man is shameful Scootaloo Nov 2013 #12
I'm with you completely . . . another_liberal Nov 2013 #36
I see that a lot of posters feel the same way; but it's not so. Scootaloo Nov 2013 #42
agreed n/t madeline_con Nov 2013 #48
For a historic mistake, how does this compare to . . . Jack Rabbit Nov 2013 #13
Israel is our great ally in the region, but he needs to be a bit more flexible. They are keeping RBInMaine Nov 2013 #16
with "allies" like these usurper rogues, who needs enemies? Snowfield Nov 2013 #20
you forgot pollard... madrchsod Nov 2013 #30
I could have supplied dozens of further examples Snowfield Nov 2013 #39
I never understand what is meant by "our great ally" as I don't have warm feelings Voice for Peace Nov 2013 #32
Hear! Hear! another_liberal Nov 2013 #37
Israel's place as "our great ally in the region" is an inherently tenuous one Scootaloo Nov 2013 #43
thanks for your perspective. I am in favor of everybody getting along. Voice for Peace Nov 2013 #45
I have had a theory for a while... iandhr Nov 2013 #19
Silence from a lot of Israel supporters lately. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #21
I'm a supporter of Israel DavidDvorkin Nov 2013 #23
I support Israel. But Bibi isn't Israel. Which Bibi forgets. nt msanthrope Nov 2013 #25
No he isn't, just like bush wasnt America, though some posts in this thread fail to distinguish that lostincalifornia Nov 2013 #26
Yet he was democratically elected. ForgoTheConsequence Nov 2013 #28
The election was extremely close in this country, stolen or not. The second term bush did win. lostincalifornia Nov 2013 #29
It's a little more complicated than that, actually Scootaloo Nov 2013 #44
I am a supporter of Israel and a long time member of J Steet karynnj Nov 2013 #46
This message was self-deleted by its author Purveyor Nov 2013 #27
Do you think that might be on the table? Voice for Peace Nov 2013 #31
It will happen someday. another_liberal Nov 2013 #38
Netanyahu is the historic mistake! Auntie Bush Nov 2013 #33
BiBi...no one is listening to you. This is a BIG DAY for peace. MADem Nov 2013 #34
It must be deeply disappointing . . . another_liberal Nov 2013 #35
well said n/t madeline_con Nov 2013 #49
Screw Bibi. Arkana Nov 2013 #40
Qucik! Dial Whine-One-One! Bibi needs a... KamaAina Nov 2013 #41
Yes, it is. Hundreds of thousands dead, millions displaced, trillions wasted. Orsino Nov 2013 #50
 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
6. ITA! I'm sick of the God's Chosen People card being played........
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 03:11 PM
Nov 2013

Even if Bennie hasn't played it yet - he will be playing it by Tuesday..........

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
10. Exactly.
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 03:24 PM
Nov 2013

While the past has had it's terrible horrors, I'm sick of the "victim" mantra.

Bennie Boy, may be give peace (and quiet) a chance?!?

c588415

(285 posts)
18. I concur, Nut-n-yahoo and his cronies refuse to allow
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 05:41 PM
Nov 2013

the Palestinians their own state. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you, Netanyahu needs to be careful of the insults he hurls at Pres. Obama and his Administration.

 

Heather MC

(8,084 posts)
2. Hmmm so a deal that would take Nukes out of the hands of your BIGGEST enemy is a mistake?????
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 02:54 PM
Nov 2013

I need to invent another word for Stupid to describe this guy.

BeyondGeography

(39,374 posts)
3. I have seen your future, Bibi
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 02:55 PM
Nov 2013

And it involves having very animated and increasingly irrelevant conversations with yourself.

iamthebandfanman

(8,127 posts)
4. ill tell ya what was a historic mistake..
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 02:58 PM
Nov 2013

his government selling classified military documents we shared them to the Chinese .. MULTIPLE TIMES..

Suck it tyrannical government of Israel.. will the people of Israel ever rise up or are they too scared 'the enemy' will take advantage?

Wolf Frankula

(3,601 posts)
24. But They Had The RIGHT to do that
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 07:04 PM
Nov 2013

They're ISRAEL!. We're their colony. Aren't you happy to be Israel's colony? Aren't you happy to have no guaranteed health care, while they have full coverage for all? Aren't you happy to pay for their wars? Aren't you happy to to pay for the Ultra Orthodox to breed, and study the Talmud?

BAH! Time for the Brezhnev option.

Wolf

Indi Guy

(3,992 posts)
14. Thanks for using proper grammar.
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 04:37 PM
Nov 2013

It's refreshing to see the word "an" (instead of "a&quot used before a word beginning with "h."

Lobo27

(753 posts)
8. Its that crazy mentality that many have...
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 03:17 PM
Nov 2013

Israel is God's chosen land and it was must protect it at all costs. So you're telling me the almighty decided that one piece of land was more important then the others and that some people are more valuable then others. Well shit.... The idiocy of it all....

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
12. This man is shameful
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 03:33 PM
Nov 2013

His threats of military action even more so.

1) Iran has a pretty strong air defense, and Israel can't extend much power that far. Netanyahu is essentially threatening to get Israeli fighters killed in a futile gesture.

2) An unprovoked attack against Iran at this point will almost certainly lead to the United States leaving Israel to hang. We have a lot of patience, but disrupting American interests to that degree is well beyond the boundaries even Israel can push.

3) If Iran retaliates (and to be honest I don't think they would do so, recognizing the conflict it would cause with the US), it will come full-force from Lebanon and maybe Syria (Syria's current state makes it less likely.) That is, Iran is able and placed to hit Israel back harder than Israel can start the fight with.

4) Israel's only real hope (so to speak) of getting its war on is to enlist Saudi Arabia. And, not to be too glib here, but Iran will fucking wreck Saudi Arabia if the two come to blows. And it's likely that the other states in the region will just stand by and let that happen, with all the fucking around the Saudis have been doing with their countries.

So to put it all in a basket, Netanyahu is threatening to kill Israeli Jews for a pointless gesture that could ultimately leave Israel wide open for either harsh international reprisals or a renewed state of war against its own neighbors (and they have much better parity with Israel now than they did in '73) that could ultimately inflame the entire region, devastate another state, and set back any notion of peace by another fifty years.

Hopefully the Israelis force him out of office ASAP. I have no delusions about a wave of progressive politics bathing that nation, bet damn, at least get rid of Nutty Yahoo, guys, that motherfucker's gonna kill you.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
36. I'm with you completely . . .
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 09:36 AM
Nov 2013

Except for your point #2:

I have been amazed by the ability of AIPAC and other pro-Israel lobbying groups to shape U. S. foreign policy too many times to take what you suggest for granted. I would like to feel more certain our government would put United States' interests and needs ahead of Israel's in such a situation, but past experience of the Israeli lobby's leverage in Washington keeps me wondering.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
42. I see that a lot of posters feel the same way; but it's not so.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 10:52 PM
Nov 2013

These lobby groups do have influence, of course... but it's mostly with regards to a subject that the US government doesn't really give a flying fuck about - the rights of Palestinians, any situations involving Jordan or Lebanon. Where Uncle Sma doesn't care, he'll go along with the loud voice greasing his palm.

However, where there is actual US interest? Such as in Egypt or now Iran? Israel either gets on the boat or learns to swim. So too when the US public manages to drown out the lobbying, as happened with regard to Syria. In the specific case of Iran, the US has a keen interest in reestablishing positive relations with that state - not just in the interest of international goodwill... but also because if the US doesn't, Russia or China will. ANY interference in US interests - especially when those interests are open and being conducted at the very moment - is met with very little tolerance.

Also to bear in mind... even the Bush Administration made it perfectly clear that if Israel hied off on its own to attack Iran, it would be doing so without an ounce of American support in any capacity (Except, perhaps, moral support; hooray, cheerleaders). I can't Imagine that Obama would be any more amiable to the notion, especially since it's his administration conducting talks.

For an example of this, think back to 2008. In the Caucasus, there is a nation named Georgia. it's a strong American ally, has been ever ince it gained independence from the USSR. In 2008, Russia lifted sanctions against Abkhazia and south Ossetia, Georgian territories that wish to break away from Georgia to become independent states, and mulled over recognizing both formally. In response, Georgia began a military buildup in the regions, and even began taking shots in South Ossetia. Now the trouble here is that the people of South Ossetia are recognized as Russian citizens by Russia. So Russia rolls its own troops in. Georgia immediately runs to the United States and NATO, demanding military backing to fight off the Russians. The US told our "strong regional ally" to get bent, basically; They had started the fight, it was not in our interests to move against Russia, and Tbilisi could just figure it out its own damn self.

Also consider the case of Iraq. The Us was great buddies with Saddam's Iraq - here we had a fascist strongman who would purge all the commies from his country, all while throwing gas canisters at the Iranians after their revolution. What a swell guy! We funneled him intelligence, weaponry, money, everything he could want. As it turns out the Iranians are pretty damn good asskickers, and even with support from the US, the Soviets, and Saudi Arabia, Saddam couldn't make headway. So in 1989, he sat down with a US ambassador, and started talking about Kuwait. Saddam regarded Kuwait as a breakaway Iraqi province, and wanted to know the Us position on Iraq "reasserting sovereignty" over it. The answer he got was a green light - he was basically told that the United States does not give a flying fuck what happens to Kuwait. He invades, Bush waggles his finger for the TV, and sends troops to Saudi Arabia (but not to Kuwait.) And then Saddma oversteps. He invades Saudi Arabia on January 29 - namely the podunk border town of Khafji, where Iraqi troops trade fire with Saudi and Qatari defenders. The United States then basically demolishes every capability Iraq has for ANYTHING, for the next twelve years, before finally putting a bullet in the country's head in 2003. He was our buddy, until he went about a hundred yards too far.

In 1956, Israel became a catspaw for France and the UK, accepting a deal in which Israel would invade Egypt, capture the suez, and cede it back to French and British control in a "peace deal" that would grant Israel control of the Sinai. it went off as planned, Israel rolled over Egyptian forces all the way, and captured the Suez. But instead of a peace deal and doubling its real estate, Israel got a joint ultimatum - pull back all the way to Israel, or you will be bombed into so much grit. Who issues the joint ultimatum? Was it two of the Arab states? Was it France and the UK renigging on the deal? Nope. it was the United States and Russia, at the height of the cold war, locking arms and threatening to introduce Israel to the hardest sort of asskicking it could imagine, if they did not leave Egyptian territory posthaste. Because the Us and Russia are such buddies with Egypt? Nope; because returning control of the Suez to British and french control would return more power to these former empires than either new empire wanted them to have. Mind that both the US and USSR had been trying to cozy up to Israel at this point, each seeing a possible foothold in the middle east. But just like that, Israel was told to GTFO. And Israel did so. when it took the Sinai again in '67, it was careful to leave the Suez exactly as it was.

These are examples of relations between the United States and its client states. The client state can putter around doing whatever asinine bullshit it wants, and the US will smile and nod like a doddering grandpa. But the moment that asinine bullshit poses an actual threat to vested US interests, grandpa whacks the offender upside the head with his cane.

Jack Rabbit

(45,984 posts)
13. For a historic mistake, how does this compare to . . .
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 04:30 PM
Nov 2013

. . . occupier settlements in occupied territory?

 

RBInMaine

(13,570 posts)
16. Israel is our great ally in the region, but he needs to be a bit more flexible. They are keeping
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 05:03 PM
Nov 2013

MANY of the sanctions in place, and they have international observers going in. Plus, if the Iranians violate terms, full sanctions can be replaced. But, there has to be a little give if they give. That is how a negotiation works.

 

Snowfield

(46 posts)
20. with "allies" like these usurper rogues, who needs enemies?
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 06:09 PM
Nov 2013






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


also

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons

Revealed: how Israel offered to sell South Africa nuclear weaponsExclusive: Secret apartheid-era papers give first official evidence of Israeli nuclear weapons

---------------------------------------------------

http://rt.com/usa/cia-mossad-israel-espionage-311/

Best of friends? CIA considers Israel one of its biggest spy threats



 

Snowfield

(46 posts)
39. I could have supplied dozens of further examples
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 01:58 PM
Nov 2013

No friend of humanity are the zionists......unfortunately they have a vice-grip on both USA parties. At least Obama finally showed a wee of spine when dealing with these thugs.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
32. I never understand what is meant by "our great ally" as I don't have warm feelings
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 11:01 PM
Nov 2013

about the way Israel has dictated so much of our foreign
policy, not so much an ally as a blackmailer.

Nor their wanton disregard of many respectful
requests to make peace with neighbors.

Nor the arrogance with which that government
views and criticizes a President I happen to love.

Nor the amount of US taxpayer dollars funding
their settlements and their bombs.

It seems to me they are "our great obstacle" to
making allies of EVERYBODY in the region and
I bet lots of people would go for that.

LOTS AND LOTS OF PEOPLE WANT PEACE.
Brothers and sisters in the Middle East
of all religions and tribal persuasions want
peace. Children everywhere want peace, old
people want peace, mothers and fathers,
almost everyone.

Peace is POSSIBLE.
If we want it, it is possible.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
43. Israel's place as "our great ally in the region" is an inherently tenuous one
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 11:01 PM
Nov 2013

That's a big part of what their government's panic is about. Make no mistake, we will ditch them the moment a better option arises in the region. Israel just does not have nearly enough non-military influence in the region, and their behavior makes them an albatross around our neck. It's just that even with these problems, they're the best option for a cemented relationship.

- A democratic Egypt is our #1 interest. Egypt is strong in terms of military, finances, and regional influence. The only problem is it's been ruled by - and is currently being ruled by - savage military juntas. Good enough for a strategic alliance, but not good enough for lasting political affiliation.

- Barring Egypt, then an open Iran is our better deal. And Iran is opening up, so Israel is shitting itself. iran is, of course, not perfect. But it's frankly leagues ahead of any other nation in the region, barring perhaps Turkey and Israel - And Turkey's dead-set on Europe, and iran lacks Israel's heavily-tarnished record in the region.

when you see Israel and Saudi Arabia maneuvering in the middle east, this is essentially the core of it - both states are trying to preserve their status as US favorites by hindering or crippling potential rivals to that place.

iandhr

(6,852 posts)
19. I have had a theory for a while...
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 06:02 PM
Nov 2013

... that this type of saber rattling might be a good cop bad cop thing Netanyahu has worked out with the President.

Israel has used the phrase no daylight between the US and Israel on Iran"

This type of rhetoric went on when we tried talks in 2009.

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,868 posts)
21. Silence from a lot of Israel supporters lately.
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 06:12 PM
Nov 2013

It must be stressful having to choose between Obama and Bibi. I sense a little disappointment.

DavidDvorkin

(19,479 posts)
23. I'm a supporter of Israel
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 06:35 PM
Nov 2013

in that I support Israel's right to exist and to defend itself (appropriately). That doesn't mean I support Netanyahu or see myself having to choose between that vile man and Obama.

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,868 posts)
28. Yet he was democratically elected.
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 09:48 PM
Nov 2013

And his party holds majority power in the Knesset. He didn't steal the election like Bush. He's there because so many Israelis support his far right party.

lostincalifornia

(3,639 posts)
29. The election was extremely close in this country, stolen or not. The second term bush did win.
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 09:55 PM
Nov 2013

Israel is a parliamentary system. Things are even less clear cut there


 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
44. It's a little more complicated than that, actually
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 11:06 PM
Nov 2013

Israel's political system resembles a 65 year-long game of Calvinball, and can't easily be compared to the US system.

karynnj

(59,503 posts)
46. I am a supporter of Israel and a long time member of J Steet
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 11:16 PM
Nov 2013

I am also a supporter of the United States. My opinion of Netanyahu is nearly as low as my opinion of GWB.

A few years ago, at a synagogue event with AIPAC , they tried the same thing you implicitly did - which was to say that we are not pro Israel if we didn't agree - I pointed out that I felt I had the right and responsibility to dissent (yeah I stole the phrase) when I thought my own country was wrong - and I would not blindly support anything. ( Our synagogue had both JStreet and AIPAC come - to say AIPAC was a failure is an understatement - they were so angry with us they forgot to take the list of the few people willing to give them their emails! J Street impressed most people.)

Response to TomCADem (Original post)

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
31. Do you think that might be on the table?
Sun Nov 24, 2013, 10:47 PM
Nov 2013

A coalition for peaceful resolutions, as we have just seen,
could pressure Israel to back the fuck off of the Palestinian
land.

Is that too much to hope for? I'm not informed enough
but I can surely envision it.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
34. BiBi...no one is listening to you. This is a BIG DAY for peace.
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 03:27 AM
Nov 2013

I hope we can pull this off, and pull Iran out of isolation. The way forward to "regime change" in Iran is to let the people get out there and interact. They will never see another way, and vote for their own regime change, and perhaps reduce the influence of the ulema, unless they can believe they have options.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
35. It must be deeply disappointing . . .
Mon Nov 25, 2013, 08:33 AM
Nov 2013

In all fairness, Bibi has had a pretty rough last few months. He worked so hard to convince the United States it needed to go to war with Syria (a war which would have, of course, quickly drawn Iran into the fighting). He did so much, only to see all his efforts dashed against the American public's near universal disgust at the possibility of fighting yet another costly and unnecessary Middle East war.

It must be deeply disappointing to the Prime Minister to see his fondly held dreams of visiting wholesale destruction on his enemies so suddenly and completely dismissed.

Israel could still do an attack on their own. First, though, they would have to be sure we will actually come in and save their aggressive asses if it turns out to be a bit more than they can handle.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
50. Yes, it is. Hundreds of thousands dead, millions displaced, trillions wasted.
Tue Nov 26, 2013, 01:31 PM
Nov 2013

Oh, wait. That's Netanyahu's war I'm thinking of.

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