Spoils of War: Police Getting Leftover Iraq Trucks

[jakeXT]

Source: Associated Press

Coming soon to your local sheriff: 18-ton, armor-protected military fighting vehicles with gun turrets and bulletproof glass that were once the U.S. answer to roadside bombs during the Iraq war.

The hulking vehicles, built for about $500,000 each at the height of the war, are among the biggest pieces of equipment that the Defense Department is giving to law enforcement agencies under a national military surplus program.

For police and sheriff's departments, which have scooped up 165 of the mine-resistant ambush-protected vehicles, or MRAPS, since they became available this summer, the price and the ability to deliver shock and awe while serving warrants or dealing with hostage standoffs was just too good to pass up.

"It's armored. It's heavy. It's intimidating. And it's free," said Albany County Sheriff Craig Apple, among five county sheriff's departments and three other police agencies in New York that have taken delivery of an MRAP.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/spoils-war-police-leftover-iraq-trucks-20994749

[murray hill farm]

1. WEll.....

That is seriously disturbing!! Machines of war on Main Street!

[walkingman]

2. Oh Goody

another tool in the already "militaristic" police dept. Maybe they also get a "drone" so they can spy on anyone they choose.

Peace

[Titonwan]

30. Trust me

They're coming- guaran-damned-teed.

[bobGandolf]

56. Just what cops need, more macho juice! n/t

[valerief]

3. War, the poverty maker. nt

[warrant46]

18. I'll bet they have a great Emission Control System (ECS)

NOT !!

[PeoViejo]

4. somebody's Wet Dream

..but a bitch to park.

[RC]

12. Actually they are easy to park

Anywhere they want to. Won't matter if someone is already parked there.

[PeoViejo]

15. Local PD has one.

They have to keep it at the local Shopping Center Parking lot because it's too big to fit in any of the facilities that they have. Why they got it, I have no idea.

[psychopomp]

28. Perhaps because it was free?

If Albany County sheriff Apple is to be believed, the vehicle was free. It sounds like the main drains on the local budget are retrofitting, gas and maintenance. Speaking of retrofitting:

In New York, the Albany County sheriff's department already had four smaller military-surplus Humvees, which have been used for storm evacuations and to pull trees out of roadways. The new MRAP truck will go into service after technicians remove the gun turret and change the paint from military sand to civilian black.

'Civilian black'...why is the truly creepy look reserved for stateside use?

It seems to me that besides being an outward sign of the militarization of American law enforcement, it is also a symbol of the atrocious waste that was the Iraq war. The government bought these at a half mil a piece, now they're just being handed out to domestic law enforcement departments that don't need them. As if we needed more evidence that the Iraq war was a boondoggle of mythic proportions that netted only poverty and loss.

[Ace Acme]

5. An unexpected "dividend" from illegal and gratuitous wars

Lots of surplus toys to aid in the militarization of the security forces in the homeland.

[last1standing]

6. "It's armored. It's heavy. It's intimidating. And it's free,"

When a stated goal of a police force is to intimidate the populace, the People are no longer in control. It is not an exaggeration to state that this is tyranny.

[Brigid]

10. No, it is not an exaggeration.

[dixiegrrrrl]

19. " this is tyranny."

HAS been, for some time now.

[reACTIONary]

21. Yea, right...

... we live in a "tyranny". LOL.

[last1standing]

24. That would be the reactionary response, yes.

Your user name suits you. No progressive would ever think intimidating the civilian population is anything but tyranny.

[psychopomp]

31. I think the sheriff meant intimidating to the really bad guys

There are lots of organized, armed people ready to shoot it out with the cops. That is not a politically charged statement, it is a fact of life in 21st century USA. I don't think he meant that it is to be used to intimidate everybody.

Isn't it likely that he meant it in the context of, say, rolling up to a standoff in a gigantic, bulletproof Statement of Purpose? I'm against the militarization of law enforcement, but I think people who take this statement to mean the MRAP should scare the public are stretching it. Of more concern to me is the training and personnel. LAPD has been armed to the teeth for years, they've got all kinds of mil-spec gear.

[Incitatus]

38. Then we will have to wait and see

if these show up at protests like OWS.It wouldn't surprise me.

[reACTIONary]

41. I think it would come in handy...

...for retrieving wounded fire fighters who have been shot by a crazy right wing arsonist who has them pinned down after responding to the fire he started.

Just a thought.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/24/us/new-york-firefighters-shooting/

[last1standing]

43. So you suggest taking armed vehicles to fires. Seems reasonable.

We should also equip garbage collectors with kevlar vests and make sure every postal worker carries an AK-47.

You know, just in case.

[reACTIONary]

44. No. Of course not. The police...

... can use an armored vehicle to move in close to sniper victims while the sniper is still an active shooter.

The vehicle reminded me of the situation that confronted the police in Webster NY within the last year.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/24/us/new-york-firefighters-shooting/

[last1standing]

46. Isn't increased police militarization what the right wing wants?

There is no civilian use for these weapons and vehicles. They only serve to repress the populace. It's what they were designed for.

[reACTIONary]

48. What the populace wants...

What the "populace" wants, regardless of their ideological framework, is public safety and the effective, as well as humane, enforcement of the law. A vehicle of this sort can make law enforcement more effective, can increase public safety, and is not intrinsically inhumane.

Generally, "the populace" does not find the police to be repressive or oppressive, they find them to be helpful and protective. If a firefighter is pinned down by sniper fire (as happened in upstate NY within the last year) the police could use an armored vehicle like this to move in close, shield him and effect a rescue.

I'd be all for that. Who wouldn't?

[last1standing]

49. I hope to Hell that isn't what the populace wants.

We can all be safe so long as we're willing to let our cities and town be run completely by the military.

Oh wait, we can't. I guess we'll have to let them put cameras on every street corner.

Nope, that's after the fact. I guess we'll have to accept secret police who can investigate "crimes" before they happen. that'll do it.

But what about in the home where much violence occurs? Looks like we'll need to have our lives monitored for our own protection.

You're proposing a military takeover by the government for our own protection, but you're trying to give it a friendlier face.

It doesn't wash.

[reACTIONary]

54. Proposing a military takeover by the government for our own protection????

That's a real hoot! LOL, ROTFL, etc., etc.

[CFLDem]

36. We live in a soft tyranny;

all the pieces for a true tyranny are in place, but haven't been actioned yet.

[reACTIONary]

42. A "soft tyranny"?

You mean we have a functioning government?

[CFLDem]

45. Sure

if by functioning you mean a government that can legitimately take away all of your property(IRS), and rendition you away to be tortured based on mere suspicion(security state), then yes, we have what you would call a functioning government, but others would recognize as a tyranny.

The reason this is a soft tyranny is because there still are some (rapidly eroding) checks and balances on this behavior.

[reACTIONary]

47. The government cannot...

... tax away all of your property, or kidnap and torture you. Those are exaggerated, unwarranted accusations, basically outside the realm of possibility for our citizens. In my opinion, this is counterproductive, overly dramatic posturing that erodes credibility with those who might otherwise be open to progressive ideas.

[CFLDem]

50. Ok why don't you run a little experiment.

Don't pay your property taxes and see how long they let you stay in your house on your property.

In a truly free society, citizens should be able to own property outright instead of merely renting it from the government.

As far as rendition goes, we have already brazenly done it from American soil on allied citizens like Maher Arar; it is only a small leap to do the same to American citizens.

This doesn't include the massive security state that is building data centers for vast domestic spying, the militarization of local police forces, and record incarceration for nonviolent offenses, etc.

I will grant you we aren't in an active tyranny right now (thanks to progressive organizations) , but all the pieces are currently in place for it to occur.

We are all a 9/11 away from going over the edge.

[reACTIONary]

53. IMHU, Right wing libertarian horseshit...

There is no such thing as a "truly free society" in an absolutist libertarian sense because society implies duty and obligation toward others, and duties and obligations are intrinsically constraints on the freedom of individuals. Humans are social animals, and therefore we are free only in a relative sense.

You have the responsibility to return to others the good that has been done for you by others. Taxation is one social mechanism that defines that responsibility and ensures that it is met.

Get used to it.

[CFLDem]

55. Thanks for the free scarecrow,

but I already took down my fall decorations.

[reACTIONary]

57. You're welcome, and...

...if you are inclined, I'd appreciate any clarification about your point about taxes.

[CFLDem]

58. It is every American's duty to pay their taxes.

However what separates the property tax from all the other taxes, is that it is essentially a tax just for existing, and therefore makes every land owning citizen property of the state- which is highly unAmerican.

All the other taxes are fine and dandy because they require choices and actions that affect society to trigger the tax.

Even taxes to influence choices of citizens are ok, like raising income taxes to Eisenhower like levels so that the wealthy invest in their businesses instead of themselves.

But taxing people just because they choose to own land, and thus being able to confiscate their property if they can't pay, that's the worst kind of extortion, IMO.

[reACTIONary]

59. Thanks for the claification (nt)

[dembotoz]

7. recycle, reuse--spose this is better than parking them in the desert somewhere

[former9thward]

34. "Reuse"?

Reuse them against the American civilian population? You think that is better than parking them in a desert?

[Overseas]

8. Please no! We don't need further militarization of our police.

[olddad56]

23. I agree, they have already become paramilitary organizations.

[Hestia]

9. Boy, they are certainly taking those Seattle 1999 WTO riots seriously, aren't they?

If I must:

[Historic NY]

11. Eventually they all become grease & rust spots in police parking lots.....

like all those RV Command posts. Nice for show they end up at lots of community dog and pony shows and 90% of the time are gone in 5 yrs.

[PeoViejo]

16. Gone: About the time they find out what a new set of tires costs.

Or the City manager gets handed the fuel expenses for the July 4th Parade.

[IDemo]

40. Agreed

Tires along with most other maintenance is going to put a whole new 'shine' on these things.

[Incitatus]

51. There are of course, subsidies courtesy of the Federal Homeland Security Department.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/how-to-fund-american-police-state-homeland-security

[Dopers_Greed]

13. Funny how the fiscal conservatives...

Seem to have no problem with spending $500k on a truck.

[cosmicone]

14. They will probably burn up

18 gallons for each mile driven and lead the way to police departments' bankruptcy.

[former9thward]

35. But they are "free"!!!

[Coyotl]

17. Spoil the air: "the 36,000-pound behemoths that get about 5 miles to the gallon."

[Left Coast2020]

22. I thought it was 3 MPG?

I don't think there are many city budgets that can afford that kind of gas bill--unless you're L.A.P.D.

[Incitatus]

52. I don't expect these to be used for day to day operations.

If the time comes when people group to protest, police will be more than ready. Thousands were detained without due process at the 2004 RNC. I may be cynical, but I think there may be more to the militarization of the police than just going after crazy gunmen and drug dealers.

Of course, they need to get rid of the old vehicles somehow so contractors can get deals to build new ones.

[dreamnightwind]

20. This sucks

An Associated Press investigation of the Defense Department military surplus program this year found that a disproportionate share of the $4.2 billion worth of property distributed since 1990 — everything from blankets to bayonets and Humvees — has been obtained by police and sheriff's departments in rural areas with few officers and little crime.

After the initial 165 of the MRAP trucks were distributed this year, military officials say police have requests in for 731 more, but none are available.

Kudos to the ACLU for fighting this. Too bad this kind of thing continues under Democratic administrations, who should know better. Of course we have Republican Hagel running the Defense Department, but he answers to the president.

[AtheistCrusader]

25. Free? I'll take three of them.

[blackspade]

26. And these are needed why?

We do not need a militarized police.

[Mopar151]

27. What is the chassis/driveline like? Can we ensure that it does'nt get painted black w. SWAT logos?

I beleive that some were manufactured by Oshkosh, who makes an awesome AWD snowplow and some of those funky AWD, front-discharge cement mixers.
If the chassis is up to pushing a snowplow, It could be quite useful in a big snowstorm, and other implements which use s similar hookup - a pushbar for moving disabled vehicles /storm debris quickly, a door-buster ram for.... ya know.
Other possibility is to fit it up with pannier style tanks and a foam cannon, like an airport fire truck. Thing is AFFF (Aqueous Film Fighting Foam) is about as gentle a crowd control as you could imagine, not to mention just the thing for car fires, gas spills, and the like. My hillclimb club has discussed buying a couple AFFF portable extinguishers, and we were worried about toxicity - then my volunteer fire department made a house-size pile of it for the kids to play in at Old Home Day. Very mild detergent - won't even tear your eyes.
How would Waco have turned out if they had shot a torrent of AFFF foam into the building, instead of burning tear gas grenades? Food for thought.....

[Titonwan]

29. Free, my ass.

"It's armored. It's heavy. It's intimidating. And it's free,"
The hell it is. We'll pay higher local taxes for this trojan steelhorse's fuel, vehicle maintenance, road maintenance (18 tons of short wheel base on most paved roads?), ammo, machine guns and most of all- our sense of living in a civilized world (instead of the police state we're becoming).
What's next- a M1A1 Abrams tank?

[penultimate]

33. I'm sure they will take machine guns off, but the sole purpose of this shit is to intimidate.

I'm by no means the typical anti-police type person, but this stuff is just stupid. Totally missing the point of what police are supposed to do. And they know if they only used it when it truly was warranted, they wouldn't be able to justify having it. So they'll end up using it in inappropriate situations to prove how useful it is.

[Titonwan]

39. Exactly.

Warren in 2016

[penultimate]

32. Free? Nothing is free. How much to maintain those beasts?

There is also the thing about law enforcement seeming to forget their actual purpose isn't wage war on the people they're protecting.

I get that there might be the occasional need for legitimate use of armored vehicles, but what is wrong with just standard armored truck?

[CFLDem]

37. I need a new car

can I get one of these?