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Galraedia

(5,026 posts)
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 05:38 PM Dec 2013

Satanists test Oklahoma’s religious freedoms by offering monument

Source: Raw Story

The Satanic Temple, a New York City-based religious organization, has offered to donate a monument on behalf of Oklahoma Satanists for display upon the capital grounds.

In an email-interview with Hemant Mehta, the Temple’s spokesman, Lucien Greaves, explained why the organization wanted to erect a monument to Satan on the capital grounds. “By accepting our offer,” he said, “the good people of Oklahoma City will have the opportunity to show that they espouse the basic freedoms spelled out in the Constitution … Allowing us to donate a monument would show that the Oklahoma City Council does not discriminate, and both the religious and non-religious should be happy with such an outcome.”

Greaves linked the Oklahoma donation to a larger effort to demonstrate that bills designed to promote Christianity in public places — including schools and government-run parks and buildings — “instead promoted religious diversity.”

“Obviously enabling Satanists to take advantage of the Bill was not considered when the legislation was drafted,” he told Mehta, but “the fact is that laws cannot be discriminatory.” He believes that there is no “legal basis upon which they could possibly reject” the Temple’s offer, because “they set the precedent themselves, and they simply can’t reject a monument on the grounds that it its being donated by Satanists rather than a Baptist Deacon.”

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/06/satanists-test-oklahomas-religious-freedoms-by-offering-monument/

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Satanists test Oklahoma’s religious freedoms by offering monument (Original Post) Galraedia Dec 2013 OP
Oh boy, JimboBillyBubbaBob Dec 2013 #1
OH NNOES!11!! SHARIA LAW!!!1111!! MinneapolisMatt Dec 2013 #2
Actually, I don't think Sharia would accommodate burnsei sensei Dec 2013 #5
I loled! nt PrestonLocke Dec 2013 #18
They never saw it coming... freshwest Dec 2013 #38
LOL, in fact it's a good idea but would be slightly better treestar Dec 2013 #60
that's not Satan it's Krampus! maxsolomon Dec 2013 #3
is that one of those loveable characters from German fairytales Voice for Peace Dec 2013 #53
satanists? never heard of them.. madrchsod Dec 2013 #4
I believe the devil is in the "within reason" details eggplant Dec 2013 #7
Pithily stated! +1 Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2013 #16
Lol good one TxDemChem Dec 2013 #43
I've known a few Satanists, and I think this is a great idea. burnsei sensei Dec 2013 #6
I've known a few but they were only into it for the shock value. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #39
This is always the correct response to creeping theistic government cthulu2016 Dec 2013 #8
So True. painesghost Dec 2013 #42
!!! 2naSalit Dec 2013 #9
Atheist here, I think this is great LOL Heather MC Dec 2013 #10
Me too. I'm originally from OK and find it TxDemChem Dec 2013 #44
I love stuff like this. The "Christian Only" crowd starts back-peddling faster... BlueJazz Dec 2013 #11
aren't Satanists Christians? KatyMan Dec 2013 #57
You DO have a point. BlueJazz Dec 2013 #64
Yeah they are. Sivafae Dec 2013 #65
The LaVeyan Satanists I've met are atheists who are fond of carnie theatricality cemaphonic Dec 2013 #67
Just use this argument Half-Century Man Dec 2013 #12
Nicene Creed psychopomp Dec 2013 #48
just read a bit, it seems related to lyrics Voice for Peace Dec 2013 #54
Seemed to me that Satan is part of the christian pantheon of divinity Half-Century Man Dec 2013 #61
The devil is in the details again. BlueStreak Dec 2013 #13
You infernal jokester jberryhill Dec 2013 #27
Yayyyyy!!!! I have been waiting for something like this to show just how kestrel91316 Dec 2013 #14
Waiting? No shortage of examples or points: Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2013 #17
I'm in! flying rabbit Dec 2013 #37
Really, me too! Ratty Dec 2013 #25
They all believe there is a Satan so it shouldn't be a problem for them. LiberalFighter Dec 2013 #15
Blaming stuff on Satan is their favorite way to avoid personal responsibility. Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2013 #19
Many, if not most, Democrats claim to be Christian psychopomp Dec 2013 #49
Where did I mention Democrats??????????????????????????????????????????????? LiberalFighter Dec 2013 #66
By referring to all Christians in your post, the "they" that you mention psychopomp Dec 2013 #69
Very reasonable of them. Feral Child Dec 2013 #20
If they are a real religion, more power to them! Kablooie Dec 2013 #21
You know it almost makes me a believer jberryhill Dec 2013 #28
They're not real cprise Dec 2013 #30
If their religion is to offend other religions, they are just as real as Westboro Baptist. nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2013 #32
Or as real as FSM. n/t cprise Dec 2013 #33
well just fine by me PatrynXX Dec 2013 #22
oh boy! 8 track mind Dec 2013 #23
LOL n/t RainDog Dec 2013 #24
What's next? Devil's Food Cake in schools? NBachers Dec 2013 #26
Best laugh I've had all day!! Manifestor_of_Light Dec 2013 #29
Wish they'd do the same with prayer in schools Myrina Dec 2013 #31
Agreed! painesghost Dec 2013 #34
are Satanists real? Voice for Peace Dec 2013 #35
Satanists are real. sakabatou Dec 2013 #36
They're usually Christians doing what they consider to be an ultimate "screw you". Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #41
Makes perfect sense if you think about it Major Nikon Dec 2013 #40
Well when you say it like that ;) n/t painesghost Dec 2013 #46
Since the bible is divinely inspired, maybe most people got it backwards Major Nikon Dec 2013 #52
I'd love to see the look on Tom Coburn's face when they put a statue of Satan... painesghost Dec 2013 #63
The Church of Satan are atheists painesghost Dec 2013 #45
I vaugely remember having class with an actual Satanist Bradical79 Dec 2013 #58
Yes, they are real Bradical79 Dec 2013 #55
I went to their site and it's quite enlightened and interesting.. Voice for Peace Dec 2013 #56
tHIS IS AWESOME! LOL!!! Katashi_itto Dec 2013 #47
Another victory for our lord, The Prince of Darkness MrScorpio Dec 2013 #50
LOL. myrna minx Dec 2013 #51
Awesome. Ash_F Dec 2013 #59
Hail Satanists! Tom Ripley Dec 2013 #62
It Will Be Interesing to See How Rejecting The Proposed Monument... TomCADem Dec 2013 #68
Okla. imposes moratorium on Capitol monuments Judi Lynn Dec 2013 #70

treestar

(82,383 posts)
60. LOL, in fact it's a good idea but would be slightly better
Sat Dec 7, 2013, 01:20 PM
Dec 2013

if it was from Islam. Though I suppose monuments don't fit into it with that religion.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
53. is that one of those loveable characters from German fairytales
Sat Dec 7, 2013, 11:39 AM
Dec 2013

who does horrible terrifying things to kids if they
don't obey their parents?

Edit.. answered my own question:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus

Krampus is a beast-like creature from the folklore of Alpine countries thought to punish children during the Yule season who had misbehaved, in contrast with Saint Nicholas, who rewards well-behaved ones with gifts. Krampus is said to capture particularly naughty children in his sack and carry them away to his lair.

madrchsod

(58,162 posts)
4. satanists? never heard of them..
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 05:59 PM
Dec 2013

i guess you do learn something new everyday!

my county solved their problem ...any group ,within reason,can put a display during the "holiday season"

burnsei sensei

(1,820 posts)
6. I've known a few Satanists, and I think this is a great idea.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 06:14 PM
Dec 2013

Kudos to them.
Their challenge should be levelled at every religiously-based authority and government decision, especially the Abrahamic ones.

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
8. This is always the correct response to creeping theistic government
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 06:41 PM
Dec 2013

"religious tolerance" often means Christianity buying off a handful of other mainstream accepted religions with petty prizes, all in league against atheists, agnostics and people with odd-ball religions.

Whenever people say their Jesus-in-government plan is open to other faiths they need to be hit with Islam, and if that doesn't make the point, then Satanism.

State facilities for the High School Satanism club. Satanic prayers to open legislative sessions. Satanist Christmas displays at city hall. Tenets of Satanism on a plaque in the courthouse. Etc..

All of those things are required by the Constitution (assuming somebody wants them) if we have them for Jesus.

painesghost

(91 posts)
42. So True.
Sat Dec 7, 2013, 01:54 AM
Dec 2013
Whenever people say their Jesus-in-government plan is open to other faiths they need to be hit with Islam, and if that doesn't make the point, then Satanism.
Watch how quick theocrats change their tune when confronted with religions they hate.
 

BlueJazz

(25,348 posts)
11. I love stuff like this. The "Christian Only" crowd starts back-peddling faster...
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 06:57 PM
Dec 2013

...than the speed of light.

KatyMan

(4,198 posts)
57. aren't Satanists Christians?
Sat Dec 7, 2013, 12:08 PM
Dec 2013

You would have to accept the truthiness of Christianity to believe in Satan...

cemaphonic

(4,138 posts)
67. The LaVeyan Satanists I've met are atheists who are fond of carnie theatricality
Sun Dec 8, 2013, 02:41 PM
Dec 2013

And all of the Abrahamic religions (and some of their close relatives like Gnosticism and Zoroastrianism) have a Satan-figure, so you wouldn't have to be a Christian to have a mythology that includes Satan.

psychopomp

(4,668 posts)
48. Nicene Creed
Sat Dec 7, 2013, 08:14 AM
Dec 2013

To be Christian usually means to adapt the principles espoused by the Nicene Creed. The tenets of "Satanism" are not in the same ballpark.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
54. just read a bit, it seems related to lyrics
Sat Dec 7, 2013, 11:47 AM
Dec 2013

"the Latin version that includes the phrase "Deum de Deo,"
Deum de diddly doo, wop, deum de dum dum, de deodoo."

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
61. Seemed to me that Satan is part of the christian pantheon of divinity
Sat Dec 7, 2013, 01:28 PM
Dec 2013

Holy spirit, father, Jesus, Mother Mary, Satan, Saint Francis, Saint Louis, Angels, Demons, Arch-Angels (named angels), to name a few. If prayers are cast, divine recognition of established.
Some religions share divine figures, ie Christianity and Islam share Satan. Some pantheons are assumed and changed by other groups, ie Roman assumption of the classical Greece pantheon and renaming them to suit the new worshipers; or Christian assumption of Norse/Northern European religious traditions like the yule log and Christmas tree.

 

kestrel91316

(51,666 posts)
14. Yayyyyy!!!! I have been waiting for something like this to show just how
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 07:01 PM
Dec 2013

hypocritical the fundies are.

LiberalFighter

(50,950 posts)
15. They all believe there is a Satan so it shouldn't be a problem for them.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 07:10 PM
Dec 2013

More than likely they all worship Satan in one form or another.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,010 posts)
19. Blaming stuff on Satan is their favorite way to avoid personal responsibility.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 07:34 PM
Dec 2013

They find it very convenient.

A little like saying a few Hail Mary's in penance after confession, which is another group's way out.

psychopomp

(4,668 posts)
49. Many, if not most, Democrats claim to be Christian
Sat Dec 7, 2013, 08:16 AM
Dec 2013

I'm not sure you want to "otherize" the majority of the party.

psychopomp

(4,668 posts)
69. By referring to all Christians in your post, the "they" that you mention
Thu Dec 19, 2013, 03:07 PM
Dec 2013

That includes a lot of people in the Democratic Party. So, you didn't mention them by name, but you included them in the "they." I hope that makes it clear.

Sorry for the late reply!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Feral Child

(2,086 posts)
20. Very reasonable of them.
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 07:39 PM
Dec 2013

I'm thinking this will end up on Scalia's desk eventually.
After all, he's publicly stated that Satan is a real entity.

Kablooie

(18,634 posts)
21. If they are a real religion, more power to them!
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 07:54 PM
Dec 2013

...

Well, maybe not "more power", I mean Satan doesn't really need more power, but ... well you know what I mean.

On a side note:
How do you distinguish between a real Christian church and a church that calls itself Christian but is actually under the sway of Satan?
It seems a great many evangelist churches come under the latter category.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
28. You know it almost makes me a believer
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 08:52 PM
Dec 2013

Since they don't seem to get the role of Satan as "the deceiver". Just who do they think his targets are?

cprise

(8,445 posts)
30. They're not real
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 09:02 PM
Dec 2013

If these are the people who follow LeVey, they chose their name specifically to offend other religions, for one thing.

PatrynXX

(5,668 posts)
22. well just fine by me
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 08:19 PM
Dec 2013

siding with the believe there is no god religion has messed up the system for ages. I prefer acknowledging them all thank you..

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
29. Best laugh I've had all day!!
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 08:55 PM
Dec 2013


When they talk about "religious freedom", it usually means "Freedom to inflict our flavor of Christianity on the natives."

painesghost

(91 posts)
34. Agreed!
Fri Dec 6, 2013, 09:50 PM
Dec 2013

This is the best way to challenge activities that attempt to subvert the separation of church and state.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
40. Makes perfect sense if you think about it
Sat Dec 7, 2013, 12:20 AM
Dec 2013

God killed at least 2 million in the bible. Satan killed only 10, and even then god was arguably an accomplice.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
52. Since the bible is divinely inspired, maybe most people got it backwards
Sat Dec 7, 2013, 10:09 AM
Dec 2013

An effigy to Satan on the lawn of the capital doesn't really sound like all that bad of an idea.

painesghost

(91 posts)
63. I'd love to see the look on Tom Coburn's face when they put a statue of Satan...
Sat Dec 7, 2013, 03:35 PM
Dec 2013

in his own backyard. Karma sucks buddy.

painesghost

(91 posts)
45. The Church of Satan are atheists
Sat Dec 7, 2013, 05:38 AM
Dec 2013

But I remember reading about some far right satanists that actually seemed to worship a literal Satan or at least claimed to.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
58. I vaugely remember having class with an actual Satanist
Sat Dec 7, 2013, 12:19 PM
Dec 2013

back in highschool. There was also a girl that believed she would be able to actually turn into a werewolf. Religion and belief in the supernatural takes all types. As a creation/counter deity of one group of religions' God, pretty much all elevation of Satan to his own religion probably would have started as a countermovement to Christianity, Judaism, etc.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
55. Yes, they are real
Sat Dec 7, 2013, 12:02 PM
Dec 2013

Though I don't know about this group. Of course rather than atheists "goofing on religion" how many religious leaders do you think are atheists pretending to be Christian for money and power? If investigations into a group's motivations for wanting to participate in this sort of thing are questioned it seems to me it could get real ugly real fast. Probably one of the reasons they're testing this law.

 

Voice for Peace

(13,141 posts)
56. I went to their site and it's quite enlightened and interesting..
Sat Dec 7, 2013, 12:08 PM
Dec 2013
http://www.thesatanictemple.com/

I've mixed up these excerpted paragraphs a bit, but:


The Satanic Temple seeks to separate Religion from Superstition by acknowledging religious belief as a metaphorical framework with which we construct a narrative context for our goals and works. Satan stands as the ultimate icon for the selfless revolt against tyranny, free & rational inquiry, and the responsible pursuit of happiness.

To embrace the name “Satan” is to avow skepticism in the face of all things, even — especially — that which is held sacred. To stand forth as a “Satanist” is to rend from the persecutory, affrighted mob a convenient out-group label, demanding that individuals be judged for their concrete actions, not their fealty to arbitrary social norms and illusory categorizations.

Satanism is not mindless abandon and depravity, but a philosophy that drives us to lead fruitful and dignified, epicurean lives. Satan, the symbolic force of design that would urge humanity toward refined pleasures of the Arts and Sciences. Satan, who first brought the fruit of knowledge to Humankind that thereafter we might live not as naked brutes in the wild, but develop our cultural splendor into ever more aesthetically and technologically advanced heights. Ours is the Humanistic Satan who would sacrifice His own Heavenly residence so that Humanity might learn to understand and enjoy the physical world they inhabit.
...
The mission of The Satanic Temple is to encourage benevolence and empathy among all people. In addition, we embrace practical common sense and justice. As Satanists we all should be guided by our conscience to undertake noble pursuits guided by our individual wills. We believe that this is the hope of all mankind and the highest aspiration of humanity.

As an organized religion, we feel it is our function to actively provide outreach, to lead by example, and to participate public affairs wheresoever the issues might benefit from rational, Satanic insights.

TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
68. It Will Be Interesing to See How Rejecting The Proposed Monument...
Sun Dec 8, 2013, 09:30 PM
Dec 2013

...squares with the Establishment clause of the Constitution.

Judi Lynn

(160,545 posts)
70. Okla. imposes moratorium on Capitol monuments
Thu Dec 19, 2013, 06:25 PM
Dec 2013

Okla. imposes moratorium on Capitol monuments
| December 19, 2013 | Updated: December 19, 2013 4:06pm

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Following requests from Satanists, Hindus and animal lovers to erect displays at the Oklahoma Capitol, a panel overseeing the grounds has imposed a moratorium on new request for such monuments.

The Oklahoma Capitol Preservation Commission voted unanimously on Thursday to approve the ban until a court dispute over the current Ten Commandments monument is settled.

A group of New York-based Satanists indicated earlier this month plans to seek a monument at the state Capitol, saying Oklahoma opened the door when it allowed the Ten Commandments monument. That was followed by similar requests from a Hindu leader in Nevada and the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

Commission Chairman Trait Thompson says Thursday's vote won't affect a state senator's plans to erect a privately funded Bill of Rights monument.

http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/Okla-imposes-moratorium-on-Capitol-monuments-5079055.php?cmpid=usw

(Short article, no more at link.)

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