Obama just shook hands with RAUL CASTRO....

[MADem]

Last edited Tue Dec 10, 2013, 09:45 AM - Edit history (1)

Source: ITV and CNN

If that isn't LBN, I don't what is.




Read more: http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-12-10/obama-shakes-hands-with-his-cubas-raul-castro/

---

Editing...yet again...to add the video of the event. It comes early--around the 12 second mark:

[PeoViejo]

1. Sounds like an Elephant walking on Bubble Wrap

.....tiny pea-brains popping everywhere....

[MADem]

5. I found a pic and a link-I added them to the OP! nt

[warrant46]

154. And about time !!

I want to get to Havana "legally" before I die !!

Viva Cuba Libre !!

[MADem]

164. iBeba Cuba Libres!

[FarPoint]

17. I love it!

Hahahahahahahahahahahah

[Heather MC]

87. "CASTRO, He's shaking hands with CASTRO!!!!"

I thought she was going to explode on live TV
I can't believe a Funeral requires freaking political commentary

[Half-Century Man]

108. They just shook hands, they didn't french kissed.

Reign it in a bit.

[avebury]

31. People need to just plain get over it.

The Castro brothers will not live forever Heck we made peace with Viet Nam, Nixon went to China. It is absurd that we continue to hold a grudge against Cuba and maintain sanctions. It actually makes the US look pretty silly. I think that because we have either directly or indirectly been involved in the overthrow of so many governments around the world, some are pissed at the one that got away.

[loudsue]

112. The mafia/bush family are still pissed that their little scams were nationalized.

They lost money on the deal, and no, they won't get over it.

[calimary]

121. TOTALLY!!!!!!!

And the wrongwingers just need to get over themselves about it, too.

[SkatmanRoth]

2. That will cause right winger heads to explode n/t

[MADem]

6. No doubt--but that's their problem! I can't wait to watch them writhe, huff and puff! nt

[awoke_in_2003]

50. I wonder how many of them...

have no problems ordering Cuban cigars online.

[Thav]

58. They're angry he got around his filibuster without 60 votes

and are calling for his impeachment.

[pangaia]

62. Just show them the photo of Rumsfart with Hussein.

Shrub with the Saudi prince. what's his name.and on and on...

[alp227]

97. also...

[pangaia]

107. Oh, those are priceless, especially Nixon and Mao Zedong.

[Cha]

3. Brawaawaaa and we were discussing earlier

that the 'eads would explode because they were on the same "Programme"!

[MADem]

4. He was VERY smooth--as he is. Raul looked pleased.

POTUS is giving a great speech. It's a wonderful memorial to Madiba.

[Cha]

8. Thanks for that observation, MADem..

I heard it.. it was magnificent!

[cilla4progress]

101. do you recall how long it was?

studying for an exam and wondering if i have time to listen! i would love to! thanks.

[MADem]

125. Just under twenty minutes--here's the White House copy.

[davidpdx]

7. Wow a phone call to Iran and now shaking hands with the leader of Cuba

[jtuck004]

13. Dammit. They keep this up and peace is just gonna be everywhere...

Wouldn't that be somethin'?

[cilla4progress]

102. EXACTLY

what he said he was going to do when running in 2008 - work with our adversaries, as well as our friends, towards peace in the da WORLD! Man of his word...

[enlightenment]

178. Nothing new -

President's have been meeting and greeting dictators of various stripes for years. I'd list, but this guy has photos . . .

http://thedailybanter.com/2013/12/other-u-s-presidents-and-political-leaders-shaking-hands-with-evildoers/

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. Muslin soshalist!

[davidpdx]

45. Shh!

You'll wake the Freepers!

[Heather MC]

119. Further Proof that he is Mooslim

[Firebrand Gary]

9. That speech of President Obama's...... BARN BURNER!

What a beautiful call to action and forceful way to call out international hypocrites! God I love our President!

[avebury]

10. It also kind of made the

Republicans and Tea Party crowd look pretty bad as well. A bonus!

[MADem]

14. Ted Cruz (no shit) was at that memorial--wonder if he was fidgeting at all..? nt

[avebury]

26. But but but he needs to have something to use

to say he has international experience if he decides to run for President.



He is an idiot and nothing will help him overcome that.

[MADem]

29. That is EXACTLY why he's there....

And he also needs some pics of himself in close proximity to people with melanin, for the campaign commercials and brochures, of course.

[randome]

71. "...in close proximity to people with melanin..."

Ain't that the truth!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[MADem]

77. He's probably got some pinch-nosed little shit photographing/videoing him to beat the band!

I can hear 'em now..... gotta use the thingy for the irony impaired...!

"Stand over there by that --well dressed-- group!!! No, the ones with suits!!!!! We'll pass them off as Americans in the ad campaign!" Click click click!!!

"Pretend you're talking to those people in those --ethnic outfits!---....and try to wipe that fearful look off your face!!! They won't bite--that's the governmental delegation from Cameroon, there!!!" Click click click!!!!

"Stand over there and I'll foreshorten the picture to make it look like you're talking to Desmond Tutu....yeah, the guy who rolled his eyes at you and muttered 'God help you' earlier...!!!!" Click click click!!!!

These pics will look great in the "See? Not Racist!" flyers we send out!!

[SummerSnow]

132. best line evah...

" in close proximity to people with melanin"

[MADem]

133. Or...as Rick Santorum would say....

"I see blah people!!!"

Reference: http://crooksandliars.com/diane-sweet/santorum-i-didnt-say-black-people-i-sa

[Cha]

12. It was brilliant, Gary! Will anyone

whine about it!?

[Firebrand Gary]

153. They probably will, but I don't give a hoot...

I'm so, ever loving sick of the criticism of this President. In fact my ears are now officially tuning it all out for the remainder of his Presidency. The media complex has overplayed their had by far, they've lost all credibility in my mind.

The story should be the historic non producing Congress...

Hugs to you, Cha! Tis the season my friend!

[Cha]

155. I hear ya, Gary!

Hugs backatcha!

[MADem]

162. ^^^ The story should be the historic non producing Congress... ^^^

You got THAT right! Allow me to join you as someone who is sick of the trolley, whiny complaints about Obama, most of which are completely beyond his control or area of responsibility.

I think some of these people think he's a political alchemist, who can change Republicans into Democrats....

[Titonwan]

181. Cheerleaders...

The economic team, the legal team, the intelligence team- picked by Obama puts him to the right of Dwight Eisenhower. Ain't you so proud.

[Firebrand Gary]

182. We elect LEGISLATORS to legislate...

The President to govern. Simply put, democrats should have voted in 2010. It's our fault, not the Presidents. Our party decided to sit out the election and now there are scores, even here on DU that want to blame the President for this disfunction. We own this!

Until our party admits that we fucked up, we are bound to keep making the same error.

[MADem]

186. +1 nt

[MADem]

185. Look, Democrats and Republicans were much closer back in Ike's day, on all issues,

ideologically speaking, so I am not sure why you're crowing. The difference between Harry Truman and Ike on issues like a strong national defense and "the communist menace" were infinitesimal. And given that Ike was a bit of a foot dragger on civil rights, and he didn't have to deal with an obstructionist House, high unemployment, and debt up his ass, I'd call you phony little construct that Obama was to the right of Ike a bit of well, bull. You gotta dance with the one what brung ya, to the tune being played by the band. It's a different prom date and a different dance hall, fifty or sixty years ago, and trying to play a compare-contrast game is just, well, non-operative.

I would suggest you learn a bit about Ike's presidency and the times, if you really want to play fake "comparison" games: http://millercenter.org/president/eisenhower/essays/biography/4

Eisenhower was at best a tepid supporter of civil rights. He urged advocates of desegregation to go slowly. He said that integration required a change in people's hearts and minds. Eisenhower was sympathetic to white southerners who complained about alterations in what they said was their way of life. He considered as extremists both those who tried to obstruct decisions of federal courts and those who demanded that they immediately enjoy the rights that the Constitution and the courts provided them. Eisenhower refused to use his moral authority as President to advance the cause of civil rights. This issue, which divided the country in the 1950s, became even more difficult in the 1960s.

Ain't I proud? Not particularly--but I am educated.

[freshwest]

201. Yup

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. Your link is broken, but here's a story with the headline:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-cuban-president-raul-castro-shake-hands-nelson/story?id=21158776

[MADem]

15. It somehow got truncated, I fixed it, but the more, the merrier!

Slightly different angle on the ABC pic:

[Cha]

18. And, better imaging.. thanks!

I had no idea what Raul looked like. Seems he's getting up there in age too.

[MADem]

22. He's eighty two....we usually see him in one of those military costumes...

Like this:



He doesn't affect the track suit as much as his big brother is doing, lately.

[Cha]

25. Wow, I wonder who's next

in line?

[MADem]

30. Elections...so they say. We'll see.

I'm guessing the VP will move up.

[Mika]

168. "Elections... so they say"

Pathetic comment.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x31936

[MADem]

169. Yeah, right backatcha!

All I can say is no suprises from you....and your link is bullshit, and you know it. There's only one political party and there are no "free and fair" elections in Cuba.

Go on now, spout a load of Granma (Cuban state propaganda arm, for anyone else reading) tripe...like it means anything.



Cuba has a LONG ways to go, both in dragging themselves out of the economic mire they are in, and in liberalizing their society so that the people have real freedom. Leaping for joy at being "allowed" to own a house is not freedom. But hey, flail away--SSDD.

[Mika]

170. I've been in Cuba during elections. Spout away, but, you haven't been there during elections.

Indeed, SSDD from you.

For others actually interested, here ...



Prices vary month to month @ Amazon. About $15 ...

http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-1997-98-Elections-Arnold-August/dp/0968508405

[MADem]

171. Oh bullshit--the day that one party elections with the candidates picked by someone named Castro

can be called "free and fair" is the day that pigs fly.

And I don't care if you've been to Havana or the North Pole--if you can't see that you talking absolute bullshit, you can't be helped to understand what "democracy" with a small d means.

Now have a nice day and stop derailing this thread.

[Mika]

173. You know nothing about the topic.

Castro picks the candidates?

I'm derailing nothing.
You answered the question as to who will succeed with a bullshit know-nothing answer.
Bullshit know nothing answers more derail threads than do informed answers from persons who have experience in the matter being queried.

Now, move along to something you know about.

[MADem]

174. And neither do you--now stop being uncivil and trying to derail this thread with your usual

rantings about how democratic Cuba is--only someone with a perverse definition of "democracy" believes that.

So YOU move--this thread is about Obama shaking hands with Castro at Madiba's memorial--not your noxious screeds copied straight from Granma and convoluted opinions woven from your fantasies.

[Mika]

205. I don't anything about something I've participated in? Laughable comment.

Seems as though it is you basing your opinions on fantasies. No fantasies on my part. Been there. Seen it.

Why are you so intent on the lack of civility?
I provided some relevant information, you provide little else but nasty repartee and know-nothing answers to questions.



Have a nice day.

[MADem]

208. Yeah, you "don't anything." Now just stop derailing the thread with your propaganda.

What's uncivil is your attempt to drag that crap in here. Elections where there is only one candidate per seat are NOT, by definition, democratic. Stop beating that dead horse.

You can keep kicking the thread if you'd like. Your points are NOT taken.

[Mika]

209. Again, you demonstrate your complete lack of knowledge on this topic.

Why do you insist on pushing disinformation about this? You don't know what you're talking about on this topic. Why not just leave it alone? I know you think you're right, but, you're not.

Have a good evening.

[MADem]

210. Thanks 4 the kick--anyone can google and see what I'm saying is true. nt

[Mika]

211. At the same time they can use google to find out that Obama is Kenyan.

Google is no substitute for having the actual experience of being there during entire elections seasons.
I have been. You? No. So, go ahead & spread your uninformed opinion, but it is just that .. opinion, not the actuality.
Have a nice day.
[hr]

For all DUers (other than the underinformed & intransigent poster I am responding to) interested in how Cuba's election system actually works - that I have witnessed and participated in myself ...

HOW DOES THE CUBAN POLITICAL SYSTEM WORK?
http://www.cuba-solidarity.org.uk/faq-answer.asp?faqid=7

Casting doubt upon the Cuban political system is a fundamental pillar of the US-led anti-Cuban campaign, often neglecting to mention that elections take place every five years and there have been turnouts of over 95% in every election since 1976. In addition, a number of constitutional reforms have taken place in Cuba since the 1959 revolution in an effort to improve the government’s responsiveness to the needs and views of the population.

Elections in Cuba have two phases, firstly, delegates are elected to the Municipal Assembly every two and a half years and then secondly, from this deputies are elected to the National Assembly every five years. The Assembly is the country’s highest legislative power.

From the members of the National Assembly the Council of State is elected. It acts on behalf of the National Assembly between sessions. The National Assembly also appoints the Council of Ministers, the government’s highest executive and administrative body. In the event of a Presidential succession in Cuba, it will be the National Assembly that elects the new President.

Features of elections in Cuba include:
• Suffrage is universal to those over 16 years of age
• Voting is secret
• Votes are counted publicly, with anyone able to attend including press
• Anyone elected must receive more than 50% of valid votes, meaning that in a number of constituencies voting goes to a ‘second round’

One virtually unique feature inherent in the Cuban political system is the voters’ right to recall delegates who are not fulfilling their mandate. The aim of this is to ensure that assembly members carry out their mandates effectively.

The way candidates are nominated in the Cuban system is also unique, with the aim of ensuring those elected are rooted and supported in the local community:

• Anybody can be nominated to be a candidate for election. It is not a requirement to be a member of the Communist Party

• Neither money nor political parties or orators have a place in the nomination process. Instead, individuals directly nominate those who they think should be candidates

• These nominations take place at urban and rural community meetings where residents select the nominees by raising their hands

• In each electoral district the maximum number of candidates is eight with a minimum of two

[MADem]

216. Mika, cut the crap and stop violating the copyright limitations of DU.

Your screeds are "TLDR" and you are disrupting this thread. Just cut it out.

[pangaia]

65. Looks like Obama is... oh god no>> eeeiii..

He is...BOWING to the little guy !!!

[mountain grammy]

90. Hahaha.. already heard that from a winger.. Obama BOWED to Castro.

cause, as the sign at a teabagger rally said: "Obama is the ant-Christ"
Guess Castro's the ant.

[Rozlee]

76. Noes!!! They'll say he's BOWING to him!

[bluemarkers]

145. My FB had selfies on it

I was at work so I don't know anything about the coverage, but seemed like if the rwnj's are worried about selfies at a funeral then everything else made Obama look good.

[Rozlee]

196. *shakes head*

They're infuriated that Obama was treated like a rock star by South Africans and world dignitaries alike. While their Boy George had to be snuck into Buckingham Palace by helicopter to avoid mobs of protestors.

[TBF]

19. Raul doesn't look thrilled. nt

[MADem]

23. You need to see the whole video. They exchanged a few words.

I think Raul was delighted, actually.

[dipsydoodle]

36. Just looks that way in the still shot.

The video conveys pleasure on his face.

[MADem]

46. I found some video of the moment--you can see him grin.

Pay attention early--it happens at about the 12 second mark:

I think I'll add this to the OP, too.

[TBF]

53. Yes - that's much better! nt

[pangaia]

67. Who are these stupid, moronic 'news announcers?"

"CASTRO, CASTRO. Oh, my god he just shook hands with Raul Castro. Oh me, oh my. What does that say?"
"Yes. Yes... ooohhh as Christien just said, President Obama just actually (touched skin with that Commie dirtbag)...."

It doesn't say anything you stupid fuck. Obama is shaking hands with all of them. Jesus lordy. I know you newsies are too young to remember and aren't used to seeing much adult behavior in the last 13 years.. but that's what it looks like.

[MADem]

134. It was a significant moment--Christiane was interrupting because her co-hosts

didn't seem to recognize Castro. As I said elsewhere, I think they may have thought he was an usher or something.

Amanpour is one of the best international journalists out there--she knows most of these heads of state personally, having interviewed them.

You watch--this is going to be a topic of conversation for awhile.

Obama was probably thinking "Gimme five, you mutha--you're gonna help me get those wingnuts spinning for a few days, and since they can't walk and chew gum at the same time, those morons will get off the Obamacare bandwagon to spend a few days screaming about this howdy-do, the stupid tools!"

[ancianita]

20. As Obama honors other world leaders, he honors the best in us. Ubuntu is in Obama, as well.

They both make us so proud.

[MADem]

24. +1,000 nt

[yellowwoodII]

21. Time to smoke the peace pipe there, too.

There is no reason for the sanctions imposed on Cuba. Friends who have been there were impressed by the country. They said that they saw no homeless. If they are less economically successful than they could be, it is partly because of the sanctions.

[anasv]

99. Libya

used to have a decent standard of living, universal free education including for women, free healthcare. Look at it now after the U.S. (you know who you are, Hillary) "improved" it.

[bigdarryl]

27. Who GIVES A FUCK!!!!!

[MADem]

33. Well, golly gee--I give a fuck. I will bet if you polled the readership here, a lot of people give

a fuck.

If you don't give a fuck, well, that's your issue. Don't be yelling "Who gives a fuck" like you're gonna get a witness up in here. This thread is about a handshake that portends an opportunity for peace with a country ninety miles from our shores, whose estrangement from us is mired in stuff We, The People, I suspect, will be surprised to learn. One day, we might get the full story--I'd like to know it before I die.

[Cha]

55. Thank you.

[veness]

149. Thank you MADem! n/t

[warrant46]

190. +1

Sums it up for me too !!

[Earth_First]

38. Apparently, at a minimum; twenty people do. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

51. I do...

it is nice to see a president not trying to get us in another war.

[LanternWaste]

52. On the other hand, who are the under-educated who don't give one...?

On the other hand, who are the under-educated who don't give one...?

[TBF]

54. Many of us care very much about Cuba. nt

[malthaussen]

59. Well, I do.

If you don't, that's your problem.

-- Mal

[Feral Child]

85. I'm assuming you were

addressing the wingers that will get all poutraged about the incident. A couple of posts are assuming that you're belittling the moment.

I haven't been here long, so I don't know how your posts trend. Could you expand on your post to clarify, please?

[a la izquierda]

89. I care, thanks very much.

I'd like to go to Cuba without going through Canada, Mexico, or the friggin' State Department.

[Deuce]

91. So would i....

[IronLionZion]

136. You do, and everyone who has posted here or viewed the video

and knows the significance considering US-Cuba relations for over the past 50 years.

[harun]

138. I do

[raccoon]

28. "The times, they are a-changing...." nt

[MADem]

82. I think that song is an accurate reflection of these times--there is a lot going on these days... nt

[Kingofalldems]

32. Good job. Nixon went to China.

Time to start a relationship with Cuba. Just common sense to me.

[MADem]

34. I think we already have, myself.

I think it's off the books and Third Party, but I think we're communicating. That's good. A start, anyway.

If Castro The Elder dies, it would speed up the process--he's got a strong constitution, though, so it may be awhile.

[onehandle]

35. Pinko Muslim! nt

[MADem]

39. .......

[merrily]

37. Good

They were saying how Gore had been ducking Fidel at Mandela's inauguration, literally hiding behind aides, etc.

[MADem]

42. Times were different then. The political climate was not the same as today.

As I've said elsewhere, things will change when Fidel dies.

There's a reason, unknown to us, why Fidel remains "Unforgiven."

If we can get over 58K dead and normalize with Vietnam, it's very odd that we can't rapproche with a nation 90 miles from our shores. There's a big grudge happening, we have suggestions, rumors, and insinuations...but we don't have the details...yet.

I would like to know before I die what the deal was.

[merrily]

44. No kidding.

[malthaussen]

64. Yeah, seriously.

I get that we don't want to give Fidel the satisfaction. (I get it, I just think it's absurd) But we're usually able to do business with our chosen enemies after the war ends. I'd love to know what makes Fidel so special, myself.

-- Mal

[MADem]

116. I don't want to go into the CT realm....

...but I think the answer isn't held at State, but at CIA.

I can't help but notice that we've had a number of Presidents who vowed, as candidates, to rapproche with Cuba, then they get into office, get "the briefing," and suddenly, if not "fuck that shit," they put that Cuba priority on the back burner...they dial back the expectations in a big way.

I know nothing, but I get a sense that the reason is still highly classified. It makes no damn sense otherwise.

[Zorro]

75. I sense it might have something to do

with events 50 years ago.

[MADem]

124. We're on the same wavelength.

There's just nothing else that makes sense.

Or that would be so unforgivable.

[ieoeja]

110. We didn't lose anything in Vietnam.

Most of the people who lost big money in Cuba were wealthy Americans. In Vietnam, it was the French.

[MADem]

114. Uh, we lost 58K of our loved ones, in a war that divided families and resonates down the years to

this day. And that war bled our treasury for years and competed with funding for social programs.

We lost PLENTY in Vietnam.

[ieoeja]

115. I assume that was sarcasm.

You can not seriously believe that American foreign policty views 58K dead solders in Vietnam as more important than the loss of valuable businesses and property in Cuba.

[MADem]

123. Ask John McCain that question. Ask John Kerry. Ask Bob Kerrey.

The American people sure as hell felt that way. Remember, they elected Nixon because he said he had a "secret plan to end the war." I don't know if you were around back then, but if you were, you have to remember how divided the country was about that conflict. People actually fled the country, they went to Canada, Sweden, elsewhere...there were an enormous number of draftees who deserted rather than go to to war.

And who built Cam Rahn Bay, one of the most sophisticated (and expensive, and strategically located) ports of its day? Talk about property! That was a biggie. Huge expenditure. Ro-ro capability...changed the face of military logistics (and the Russians got to benefit from it). Just the dredging costs alone, never mind the piers! See:

http://www.nhatranghotels.info/Vietnam/Nha-Trang-War-Time.htm

also:



And that's not the only infrastructure left behind, not by a long shot.

Cuba is not just about "property." That element, IMO, provides great cover, but it's not the whole Magilla. There's something more than that going on there, and I suspect it's something that's tough to forgive.

[ieoeja]

129. You're comparing public to private.

Quick question: what wealthy individual owned Cam Rahn Bay, and why has s/he not spent billions of dollars against John McCain and John Kerry given that those two took the lead on normalizing relations with Vietnam?

The answer, of course, is that none of the infrastructure to which you allude was owned by any American. French industrialists owned a lot down south. But not American industrialists.

On the other hand, a lot of wealthy Americans did lose a lot in Cuba. And that is the crime that can not be forgiven. You can kill a million American soldiers, and we'll continue doing business with you. But you better keep your fucking hands off our money.


Japan killed lots of Americans and stole from wealthy Americans. Wealthy Americans got their stuff back. Now our friend.
Germany and Vietnam killed lots of Americans, but stole nothing from wealthy Americans. Now our friend.
China, Russia, Cambodia killed no Americans and stole nothing from wealthy Americans. Now our friend.
Cuba killed no Americans, but stole from wealthy Americans. They are still our enemy.

One of these things is not like the other. One of these things doesn't belong. Can you spot the difference?

For another example, North Korea killed lots of Americans, stole nothing from wealthy Americans, but are unwilling to do business with wealthy Americans. They are also still our enemy.

It seems pretty clear to me that American foreign policy is mainly concerned with protecting wealthy Americans. And we remain Cuba's enemy soley because they piss off wealthy Americans.

[MADem]

131. Many of those fuckers are dead, though.

Their kids can whine about it, but too damned bad. They can line up with the Native Americans, the Irish tenant farmers, the Palestinians, and other displaced people who got screwed out of their property for all the good it will do.

Sometimes, the "To the Victor Goes the Spoils" card is just where it's at. Life isn't fair--insurance helps.

[JDPriestly]

159. Yes. We, too, lost far too much in Viet Nam.

[JDPriestly]

158. It wasn't just the French who lost everything in Viet Nam.

I shared a hospital room with a Vietnamese woman in France one time. Members of her family had been put in re-education camps. She was Vietnamese. That is just one example of the outrageous revenge the Communists took on those who disagreed with them and fought them in Viet Nam.

[JDPriestly]

156. I would like to know too, MADem.

I have known some Cuban exiles who were very angry about Castro and his expropriation of their families' property. Not all of them were wealthy in Cuba. One friend was the daughter of a middle-class doctor. The Communists destroyed her father's books. Out of ignorance and sheer idiocy, I suppose.

But still, the Communists in Viet Nam were even pettier and worse. Re-education camps, the works!

So I would like to know what the deal was before I die.

But it is time to make peace.

[penultimate]

197. I never understood that either...

I always figured it was because the Cuban-American lobby is unusually strong for some reason.

[MADem]

198. I don't think that's "it," though.

Hell, most of the original deed holders are dead.

There's something else going on there. Damned if I know just what it is, but it's something that REALLY pisses off Presidents, once they learn of it!

[penultimate]

199. Like he was behind the JFK assassination type stuff?

Something like that would actually make sense.

[MADem]

200. Not impossible to speculate that...or maybe it's something we know nothing about at all?

Some foreign policy/espionage maneuver that had far reaching implications of which we're not yet aware.

It just seems strange that we haven't come to terms--I really thought that once the USSR broke up, it would only be a matter of time...but really, it's SSDD, with few exceptions!

[penultimate]

202. Maybe he was responsible for planting Reagan and W. in the WH...

Sneaky bastards!

[MADem]

204. Ha ha ha! That would be reason to be pissed at him, for true.... nt

[madrchsod]

40. i though i felt a disturbance in the force is morning.....

[liberal N proud]

41. The war mongering right wing will go into nuclear mode

[DeSwiss]

43. K&R

[awoke_in_2003]

47. Well

now I know what people will be bitching about today at work

[OmahaBlueDog]

48. I guess.

"In his three years in power, Raúl Castro has been just as brutal as his brother," said José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director at Human Rights Watch. "Cubans who dare to criticize the government live in perpetual fear, knowing they could wind up in prison for merely expressing their views."

http://www.hrw.org/news/2009/11/18/cuba-ra-l-castro-imprisons-critics-crushes-dissent

The embargo is stupid, and has to end. That said, I'd just as soon shake hands with Heinrich Himmler as shake hands with Raul Castro.

[thucythucy]

56. Just a tad hyperbolic, don't you think?

Himmler oversaw one of the largest genocides in human history. He was the head of the SS which brutalized, tortured, and murdered tens of millions of people. He implemented, under Hitler's orders and through "Hangman Heydrich" a policy of exterminating people with disabilities, including thousands of developmentally disabled children who were led into gas vans while singing hymns. He was working toward a world-dominating state in which racial, religious, sexual and disability minorities would not only be oppressed, but outright exterminated. He also glorified the use of slave labor.

"Whether or not ten thousand women of inferior race die of exhaustion while digging an anti-tank ditch for us is of no consequence to me. What matters is whether or not the ditch is completed."

"Most of you know what it's like to see ten, a hundred, or a thousand corpses lying side by side. To have seen such sights, and still retain our humanity (!!!) is what makes us strong."

I know Cuba's human rights record regarding political dissidents, people of faith, and people who are GLBT is appalling, but let's keep things in perspective here.

Pulling the Nazi card is almost never appropriate.

[OmahaBlueDog]

73. Who'd you rather shake hands with -- Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer?

They're both evil - it's just a matter of degrees.

If you look at what the Castros have sanctioned -- murder and torture, you'll find that they are much the same thing Himmler did. Himmler simply did them on an industrial scale.

OTOH, we befriended Mao, who did his own share of truly appalling things. I suppose this is the way of things.

[thucythucy]

157. Well, it looks like you've got company

on the whole shaking hands with Nazis thing:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024160135

I still think it's historically preposterous to rank one with the other.

"Himmler simply did them on an industrial scale."

Simply????

[OmahaBlueDog]

172. First, I'm genuinely sorry if I offended you

1) My quote was "I'd just as soon shake hands with Heinrich Himmler as shake hands with Raul Castro." I'm not agreeing with McCain's Chamberlain comparison. I'm simply saying I find the Castros despicable on par with the Nazis. You disagree. We're each entitled to our opinions.

2) Yep - I said "simply" -- as in "merely." Once, I believed that the Nazis were uniquely horrific monsters. Like some kind of birth defect or genetic mutation. I used to believe about "never again". Then I learned about Stalin, I learned about Mao, I learned about Cambodia and the killing fields and I learned about Rwanda. What I learned is that every nation is capable of genocide (even ours -- go visit Pine Ridge sometime) -- the Nazis were just generally more organized in their evil.

Make no mistake. I know exactly what the Nazis did. I'm no Holocaust denier. I just wish more people were familiar with the Isla de Pinos.

[bobclark86]

179. Yup, and Batista was a saint... n/t

[OmahaBlueDog]

187. Far from it - but the Castros and Che weren't exactly a big human rights improvement (nt)

[thucythucy]

195. I'm not offended, so there's no reason

to apologize.

That said, I appreciate your willingness to engage, and given your responses understand a little better where you're coming from.

I've always thought that analogies make for bad history, and worse policy. And so arguing that Vietnam was like Munuch, or that fill-in-the-blank is like Hitler mostly gets us into trouble both analytically and politically.

I would assert that all of the various examples you cite arise from entirely different historical circumstances, with differing motivations and hence differing impacts calling for different responses. And that Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot are indeed on a different level than the Castro brothers--not that these distinctions would matter much to the victims.

But I doubt we'll be able to sort this out here. You have a visceral reaction to the Castros, just as I have a visceral reaction to analogies drawn to Nazism. I'm sure both these reactions arise from perfectly reasonable experiences and subsequent thinking. Not having nearly as much background on Cuba as I do on Germany (or the Soviet Union), I don't know that I can intelligently add much to this discussion without a whole lot of further study. For instance, I certainly know about Isla de Pinos, but not nearly as much as I do about Auschwitz, Dachau, etc.

Of course, one might argue that contemporary American drone policy, as well as other foreign policy disasters with subsequent loss of innocent life--i.e. our continued occupation of Afghanistan, and our unwillingness as a society to confront the exact nature and details of our illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq--might make anyone more or less reluctant to shake hands with President Obama. But that too would take more time and energy than I have at the moment.

Have you read Alan Bullock's "Hitler and Stalin"? Bullock of course is the author of "Hitler: A Study in Tyranny." Anyway, the book is a very interesting juxtaposition of the two men, how they differed, how they were similar, how those similarities and differences arose and how they played out during their lives and in the context of their respective ideologies and the societies in which they lived.

If you have suggested reading of a similar nature on Cambodia, Rwanda, the "Cultural Revolution", and--I might add--Serbia/former Yugoslavia in the 1990s--please let me know. Also, what would you recommend in terms of reading about the Castro brothers?

Thanks again for engaging, and, again, no offense taken, though the apology is appreciated and accepted. (I've been taught ALWAYs to accept an apology as a matter of course).

Best wishes.

[MADem]

189. You know what is funny about that whole McCain babble? If any Democrat said anything similar

about the same sort of conduct by a Republican President, coming face to face with an adversarial leader while engaged in diplomacy on ....GASP!!!!!!!... foreign soil, that vein in the side of his head would be throbbing to beat the band, and he'd be screaming like the "Oh The Huge Manatee" dude when the blimp crashed. "You DON'T criticize the President about his activities WHILE ON FOREIGN SOIL!!! Waaaaaah!!! WAAAAAAH!"

I know that the IOKIYAR meme gets used frequently, and on occasion misused, but in this case the IOKIYAR label is right on the money.

[roody]

60. I would love to shake hands with living history. Eom

[MADem]

61. It's a conundrum, certainly. I don't expect that we'll be singing Kumbayah soon.

But there's no reason we can't defrost a few things, maybe do a little prisoner exchange, and get started down that road.

I suspect that once Fidel is dead there will be a big change--if Raul steps down and retires there will be bigger change, and once they hold elections to replace Raul, all bets are off.

You are correct that Raul is no choir boy--he's never been afraid to get his hands dirty, even in his careless youth. See: http://tinyurl.com/pphlfqj There's a pic there that shows Raul and Che getting ready to shoot a guy.

I do think there's more to Cuba than we know--something that has kept this silliness going on for so long...when the Castros are out of the picture, maybe we'll learn what it is.

[OmahaBlueDog]

70. Certainly Nixon shook hands with Mao, who did exponentially worse things than the Castros

I'm not saying I wouldn't have done it, or that Barack shouldn't have done it. I'm saying I'd have felt dirty afterwards.

I agree with you 100%: defrost a few things, maybe do a little prisoner exchange, and get started down that road.

I'd like to think there's a sane reason we haven't normalized relations with Cuba (we've normalized relations with 'Nam, for goodness sake), but I truly believe that the "something that has kept this silliness going on for so long" is good ol' South Florida politics, and its impact on national politics.

[JDPriestly]

161. Very true.

[Old and In the Way]

69. We can certainly affect significant political change in Cuba if we are engaged on the inside,

than we can shouting from the sidelines. I can't think of one good reason to maintain this silly cold war policy - for either country. The economic benefits for both countries would be enormous. It's like the healthcare debate...Republicans will scream bloody hell, but the reality is there is no great compelling reason to listen to these morons who continue to live in the past.

[OmahaBlueDog]

72. All I'm saying is that Raul Castro is slimy. I agree we have to engage Cuba.

As I said up-thread, Nixon shook hands with Mao.

[Old and In the Way]

74. Well, Raul might be slimy, but....

he's got nothing on Bush/Cheney. If the rest of the world approached political sliminess this way, we'd have been embargoed by the rest of the world a long time ago.

[MADem]

81. He is, but he's also an octogenarian. He ain't gonna last forever.

Even if he lives to be a hundred, the days of a Castro fiefdom in Cuba are coming to an end. And what will happen next? That's the real question.

Who ever thought Mao's China would turn into the place we see today--talk about profound change (not all of it good, but still...).

[nikto]

180. If Castro had really killed that many people...

The GOP would love him.

[MADem]

184. Yes, and I think they might still admire (a la Limbaugh) his ability to be tough and

have absolute power, they only wish he would exercise said power in the service of corporate interests. Because he doesn't do this, then he's baaaaaad. The same person, doing the same things, who lined up with the GOP economic worldview would be "excused" and even the lack of genuine franchise in the country would be explained away as "Oh, the people aren't quite ready for it yet." Or "They LIKE the system, it's representative enough...for THEM" (ironically, an excuse that is made even today by those who pretend Cuba is some kind of worker's paradise, which it isn't--they've got issues).

He was no choir boy, certainly. But then, most people who seize and are able to retain power aren't. Regardless, it's past time that we have some measure of conversation with our neighbor. It doesn't have to be "full-bore kumbayah" yet, I don't think anyone's quite prepared for that, but a measured and steady outreach and conversation would not go amiss. These two "Castro lads" aren't going to live forever (I do think they are the major impediment to change, for whatever reasons)--and we might as well know a few of the players when they do finally shuffle off this mortal coil. It will make it easier to fully normalize.

[heaven05]

92. shrub was/is slimy

and if I was forced to shake hands with the bush, I would have felt forever soiled. Cheney was/is slimy. Rice was/is slimy. Reagan was super slimy. Castro threw out Batista a crony of the Mafia and the monied 1%. Is that why the Castro hand being shaken is slimy? Human rights offender? Right.

[OmahaBlueDog]

94. Y'know, Cheney, Bautista, and Castro can all be slimy.

There's no mutual exclusivity rule here.

Raul and Fidel Castro are human rights violators by any objective measurement. Did they do good things, like improve education and bring universal healthcare. Yes they did. Did they shoot, starve, torture, and imprison political opponents. Yep! They did that, too.

[heaven05]

104. yeah, yeah and so are shrub the bush, cheney "by any objective measure"

they did cause shooting, starvation, torture(Iraq/afghanistan) and imprisoned political opponents, Don Siegelman come to mind. We, as human beings, since the first stone age people took over another occupied cave, by force, have never been civilized! All the trappings of civilization, just no real civilized beings.

[OmahaBlueDog]

120. I'm not certain I see where we're going with this

I wouldn't want to shake hands with Bush or Cheney either. What I originally wrote was that, "...I'd just as soon shake hands with Heinrich Himmler as shake hands with Raul Castro." I think the Castro bros of Havana are slime based on their horrid human rights record (as opposed to the Castro bros. of Texas, whom I admire as rising stars in our party). I'm allowed to point out that someone has a horrid human rights record without making a list of very other human rights violator, and then ranking them.

[heaven05]

141. I'm not going anywhere with it. Just so many 'leaders' on this planet that I wouldn't

want to touch. Yes, yes, you are making a valid point about torture, starvation. My grandmother was Cuban. I know something of the country, no ranks here, all are same rank and it is rank. Small attempt at humor there. I have NO problem. But here's to you.

[OmahaBlueDog]

142. This is why I sometimes hate the typed word - it lacks tone and context

Go forth in peace to annoy right-wingers everywhere

[heaven05]

144. hah hah every chance I get

[Comrade Grumpy]

100. While the Castros have been in power, the US:

Invaded Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos.

Attempted to invade Cuba and tried numerous times to murder Fidel Castro.

Allied itself with the military dictatorships of the Southern Cone in the dirty wars.

Invaded that existential threat, Grenada.

Intervened in the Lebanese civil war, until run off.

Spent billions of dollars helping dictatorships fend off popular revolutions in Central America.

Spent billions of dollars trying to defeat the FARC in Colombia.

Invaded and occupied Afghanistan.

Invaded and occupied Iraq.

Attacked Libya.

I'm not sure who has more blood on their hands, but I can make a guess.

[Old and In the Way]

117. Hello Comrade!

A small point. IIRC, we got bombed out of Lebanon (or "cut and run" as the right wingers would describe iy - if they were honest), then immediately invaded Grenada to "save" the students at a medical school. I think this was the first real "wag the dog" moment in modern American history.

[OmahaBlueDog]

122. OK, I wrote that I wouldn't want to shake hands with Raul Castro based on his human rights record

FWIW, I wouldn't want to shake hands with Reagan, Nixon, Ford or the Bushes either. I'd have to think about LBJ.

[JDPriestly]

160. Yes. I have met Cubans who were terrified of Castro and wanted to get out of Cuba more

than anything. It is very, very sad, but ignoring the Castros will not make things better for those Cubans who are, if not physically, emotionally exiled from their own country.

[yellowcanine]

49. Waiting for teabagger heads to explode 3....2.....1......*#@&*@##&************!!!

[malthaussen]

57. 'Bout time. n/t

[HappyMe]

63. Look out! More of that peace stuff could break out!

I'm sure there are some repub heads exploding.

[catbyte]

66. OMFG! Cue the bagger smelling salts in 5...4...3...2...1

[Javaman]

68. queue the birthers screaming for Obama's Cuba birth certificate. nt

[MADem]

79. We didn't mean Kenya...we meant Havana--they both end in A!!!

[Javaman]

80. ...

[nolabear]

78. I unexpectedly teared up. Hope, not fear. Love, not hate. Madiba.

And, dare I say, Obama. What a legacy and what respect for it.

[Beacool]

83. Oooohhhh, now he did it!!!

He's got Communist cooties.

RW heads will explode.

[MADem]

84. Apparently, they already are popping like popcorn--I love it when they get pissed off! nt

[SoapBox]

86. Benghazi!

Uh....what?

[MADem]

113. Bengazi, Kenya, Havana OH MY! (to the cadence of Lions and Tigers and Bears...)

[octoberlib]

88. I think this is wonderful! Fuck the GOP. NT

[elleng]

93. And the earth stood still, right???

[MADem]

111. Christiane Amanpour had to point out the historic moment to her co-anchors.

They would have let the moment pass without comment, I think. They probably thought Raul was an usher or something!

I thought it was a pretty interesting exchange, not without a small bit of portent, but like folks upthread said, those right wing heads were probably doing the Jiffy Pop!

[Rainngirl]

95. Well,

Thank God he didn't BOW!! hahahaha

[Rainngirl]

96. I guess the RWers will see that as a bow

even though he just had to bend a little to reach the seated man. Oh, well. RW heads will explode either way. Idiots.

[PatrynXX]

98. Not to compare but

so how many world leaders shook hands with Hitler?? let alone Conservatives. I say that word because Democrats and Republicans switched at some point in the 1900's. Democrats used to be a bad word. Might as well talk to the red pointed hat in the Klan. I do see for the joy of history someone elected a Wig but hey this isn't Fidel. It is his brother. Which in Israel we had Ariel Sharone (sp) who as far as I know is still alive but still a vegetable much more than Terry Shavo was. So we have Ben now who isn't quite as bad of a terrorist as Ariel was but still annoying. ie how many innocents has Ben killed vs Raul??

Still Republicans can make what they want of this but if one wanted to start a war. Not shaking hands would have been a fast way to do it.

I know I'm speaking to people who are heading in the same political direction as me but I always think of it this way. Who's willing to step in the middle of a fight and break it off? Thats how fights are broken up. Need someone who's a bit neutral getting in there and saying cool down agree with parts of what your both fighting about...

[cilla4progress]

103. So much

CLASS!

Obviously, the hatred from the right is because Obama is so beloved and admired world-wide. Bullying. High-schoolish. And we have to live with this every day in our politics and in real ways that are hurting people across this country!

[Drunken Irishman]

105. Obama should spend his entire second term trolling the right.

[MADem]

109. I think that's what he's doing! Gooooooooooood.....! nt

[JDPriestly]

163. The madder they get, the stupider they look to the public.

[kestrel91316]

106. BAD President Obama! You were supposed to spit on him and slap him silly.

[WallaceRitchie]

118. Damn liberal Nixon

""

[SDjack]

152. Priceless. Proof that Nixon was a commie. As others have

pointed out, the internet has man photos of Reagan shaking hands with Gorbachev -- proof that Reagan was a commie.

[AnnieBW]

126. Ah, the sound of Freeper heads exploding

Music to my ears!

[BeyondGeography]

127. Juvenile John McCain weighs in

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mccain-on-obama-castro-handshake-chamberlain-shook-hands-with-hitler-audio

[MADem]

130. At long last, Johnny--have you no shame?

When you're burying a world leader, Captain-Failed-To-Select-for-Real-Admiral McCain, the thing to do is not question your President's conduct on foreign soil, but just STFU.

If anyone dared say a word about Poppy puking on the Japanese leader, or Porgie picking his nose in public or grabbing Angela Merkel in a freakish way, the GOP would immediately invoke the "Don't criticize the POTUS on foreign soil" card.

I don't recall that we annexed South Africa--is that our 51st state, now?

[SummerSnow]

128. Oh. no the horror....

Its Handshakemeggedon!!!!!!



where will we go, what will we do????

[RebelOne]

135. I heard Rush on the car radio on my way to the store earlier.

And believe it or not, he didn't even condemn Obama for shaking hands with Castro.

[Sky Masterson]

137. Good!

This means that he isn't a hypocrite.
He gave a speech about Nelson Mandela forgiving his captors,and spoke how he makes us want to be better people.
This is a prime example of that!
The Cuba bullshit has gone on long enough.
Mr Obama, Tear down that wall!

[FemaleDemfromMass]

139. brand new crisis

This is what the republicans have been waiting for. A new crisis and new reason to hate the President.

[Bragi]

140. Simply fabulous! Well done, Sir! /nt

[marble falls]

143. O'Reilly is outraged! Outraged! As is Limpbaugh. Outraged! And Palin? Lipsticked and OUTRAGED!!!

I don't know. But I'm betting.

[JDPriestly]

146. Bravo President Obama?

Last edited Tue Dec 10, 2013, 08:38 PM - Edit history (1)

This is wonderful. Our President, doing what is right. What a change from past presidents.

And why is it right? Because it brings us closer to being what we should be -- one humanity, one world of brothers and sisters, all simply human beings.

President Obama is bringing us closer to the dream of peace on earth.

And the Christmas season is the perfect time to do this.

What a magnanimous gesture.

(It may be followed by a disclaimer tomorrow, but our country has to continue moving toward peace and demonstrating to the world that we will not be a party to hatred and the war that it inevitably brings.)

On edit, I have to add that I think that Mandela must be looking down on Obama with great hope and joy at this time. This was just a gesture, but one that reflects Obama's willingness to sacrifice false pride to spread peace and understanding. I suspect that Obama's spokespeople will downplay this gesture, but it seemed quite sincere.

Thank you President Obama.

One more step for mankind. Don't let the hope of peace fade.

[rafeh1]

147. tea baggers are whining up and down

tea baggers are whining up and down as if some one kicked them in the groin. They were whining that Mandela was evil communist and now came the handshake with Castro. I think their pea brain of Limbaugh might burst..

[mitty14u2]

148. Most people don't know you can fly to Cuba Legally Just Search "Fly to Cuba"

[MADem]

177. You need to go through a 3rd country or get a State letter and go on a charter.

And you need a visa from Cuba.

[rpannier]

150. In Right Wing world you snub sitting heads of state and their representatives

Unless of course, it's McCain meeting with Vietnam leaders then it's not appeasement

[Vietnameravet]

151. Most disturbing of all

Rush Limbaugh said he admires dictators and envy's their power,.. Think of the hate of this man to say something like that,,,then think of the millions that love every word that ignorant blowhard says...
Very disturbing things have gotten to this level...

[WallaceRitchie]

165. Prisoner in Cuba?

One of the big RWNJ talking points is that an American is in prison in Cuba.

Hundreds of Americans are in prison in Mexico. We have yet to break diplomatic ties.

Approximately 55,000 foreign nationals are being held in prisons in the United States. 68% are from Mexico. That leaves nearly 20,000 prisoners from Canada and other parts of the world.

[MADem]

166. Cubans don't visit USA like Mexicans do. Americans don't visit Cuba like they do Mexico.

It's a distinction AND a difference.

We have four of their spies (most of the Cuban Five, one was cut loose), see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Five

The Cuban Five, also known as the Miami Five[1] (Gerardo Hernández, Antonio Guerrero, Ramón Labañino, Fernando González, and René González) are five Cuban intelligence officers convicted in Miami of conspiracy to commit espionage, conspiracy to commit murder, acting as an agent of a foreign government, and other illegal activities in the United States. The Five were in the United States to observe and infiltrate the U.S. Southern Command and the Cuban-American groups Alpha 66, the F4 Commandos, the Cuban American National Foundation, and Brothers to the Rescue.[2][3] They were part of "La Red Avispa", or the Wasp Network.

and they have that Gross guy.

No, he's not gross, that's his name. Here, read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Phillip_Gross

Alan Phillip Gross (born May 2, 1949)[1] is a U.S. international development professional. In December 2009 he was arrested while in Cuba working as a U.S. government subcontractor for the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) as part of a program funded under the 1996 Helms-Burton Act.[2] He was prosecuted in 2011 after being accused of crimes against the Cuban state for bringing satellite phones and computer equipment to members of Cuba’s Jewish community without the permit required under Cuban law.[3] After being accused of working for American intelligence services in January 2010, he was ultimately convicted for “acts against the independence or the territorial integrity of the state" in March 2011,[4] and is currently serving a 15-year prison sentence in Cuba.[2]

These are the bare-bones facts, and the Cubans want a prisoner exchange.

[yellowwoodII]

167. Great!

It's a new day.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

175. Bush shook hands with and bowed to the communist dictator of China

Even donned this snazzy outfit to please him.

and not a peep was said from conservatives.
share that with every rightwinger who tries to push the poutrage and nontroversy angle on you.

[MADem]

176. Hee hee--he probably needed help with the buttons, too! nt

[rucky]

183. This could lead to dancing!

[ucrdem]

188. break out the congas, it's cha cha time!

[MADem]

192. OMG...or Oh MYYYYY....

I thought I'd seen most of the old Star Treks...what in hell in going on that .gif???

[ucrdem]

193. This one has everything including a midget

They don't make 'em like that any more but that's not always a bad thing ...

[MADem]

194. Heavens to Murgatroid....they all earned their money that day! Gaaah! nt

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

191. And Grampy McSame shit himself bigtime.

[Wernothelpless]

203. Yeap, and he had one hand on his ....

When he invited McCain to .... it ... ~~

[Ptah]

206. Raúl Héctor Castro was the governor of Arizona

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C3%BAl_H%C3%A9ctor_Castro

Raul Hector Castro (born June 12, 1916) is a Mexican-born American politician. He has served
in both elected and non-elected public offices, including United States Ambassador and the
14th Governor of Arizona (1975–77). He was the first Mexican American to be elected
governor of Arizona. At the age of 97, he is the oldest living United States governor, since
October 10, 2011 after the death of former Washington Governor Albert Rosellini at the age of 101.

[MADem]

207. Different Raul! But he's got that "Castro longevity gene," apparently. nt

[freshwest]

212. Eh, that's nothing. He shook the one from Brazil's hand next. And then DeKlerk! What in the world?

No one complain when this happened...

[MADem]

213. I thought he KISSED the President of Brazil!

It sure looked that way to me...but maybe I'm disremembering!

I know he did the "Kiss Me Twice" a time or two as he made his way down the line!

[freshwest]

218. But did he sing to her?

[MADem]

219. I can't imagine the effort to hunt through all that footage and put that together!

Hilarious....!

[freshwest]

221. I've got more! This one really tells the tale:

Gotta sign off for tonight...

[MADem]

222. Laugh riot! nt

[LaydeeBug]

214. So *WHAT*?? Geeze Louise. nt

[MADem]

215. So what? Here's what! It's a big deal. We have no relations with the country of Cuba.

It provides an opportunity to speculate about a future thaw in relations.

It's why so many media outlets are covering it. A half century of no diplomatic relations is a long time to be "miffed."

[LaydeeBug]

217. The righties are acting like he was colluding with the man to subjugate the USA to Cuba...

and I truly see this as no BFD.

Sue me

[MADem]

220. Good--let them scream and shout.

Let me tell you something, more Americans, when they hear Cuba, think "Ricky Ricardo" and not "Fidel is evil." The whole Cuba-Castro-Embargo shit is past its sell-by date. It's not a winner for the GOP.

It puts them even FURTHER in the past than they are now. They've cornered the market on racism and sexism, now they're refighting old dramas that have no role in the 21st Century.

It is a "BFD" though--just not for the reasons the GOP are bellowing about.

Not gonna sue you, but big picture, there was meaning in that brief moment, even if it doesn't bear fruit for awhile.