Indian official: Diplomat's arrest in NYC barbaric

[Jesus Malverde]

Source: SFGate

The arrest and alleged strip search of an Indian diplomat in New York City escalated into a major diplomatic furor Tuesday as India's national security adviser called the woman's treatment "despicable and barbaric."

Devyani Khobragade, India's deputy consul general in New York, is accused of submitting false documents to obtain a work visa for her Manhattan housekeeper. Indian officials said she was arrested and handcuffed Thursday as she dropped off her daughter at school, and was kept in a cell with drug addicts before posting $250,000 bail.

A senior Indian official confirmed reports that she also was strip-searched, which has been portrayed in India as the most offensive and troubling part of the arrest. The official spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case.

Her U.S. attorney said he didn't know if she was strip-searched. Federal authorities said they were looking into the arrest.


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/Indian-official-Diplomat-s-arrest-in-NYC-barbaric-5070491.php

[warrant46]

1. Wonder what they thought she was hiding up her rectum ?

[Jesus Malverde]

3. All detainees are subject to this type of search.

The indians are outraged at being treated like americans.

Removing security barriers around the American Embassy in India in response to their diplomats treating workers like slaves, is THE outrage.

We need to sanction the Indian tech body shops in response. Their outrage will soon turn to begging.

Cognizant got 9,281 of the visas. Tata got 7,454

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2013/03/30/visa-program-has-been-hijacked-outsourcers/VAg6o9KgS2tuoZ3WbmaqeK/story.html

[geardaddy]

7. the h1b visa thing is getting out of control. n/t

[warrant46]

9. Arrested for speeding or writing a bad check.

Have your rectum probed. And if a woman her vagina.

Arrested by some Neanderthal for no reason ? Get ready for the rubber glove

Welcome to amerika

Oh-- and the Best of all Don't attend a protest and carry a sign when the cops begin to use truncheons on the masses

[RKP5637]

28. Cops with hardons looking to arrest someone to search their holes! n/t

[Jesus Malverde]

36. In Texas they even do it on the side of the road...

When I fly, the TSA informs me they will search my groin until they "encounter resistance"...

Um buddy, that "resistance" in your hands are my testicles...

[warrant46]

46. Flying was fun--Now its like getting Booked

Or visiting someone in Prison

I feel for you Jesus

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. All buildings in Delhi have no special barriers

The Americans are outraged at being treated like Indians.

[smitra]

26. ^^^^This^^^^

[okaawhatever]

40. Do we need to ask how many other Indian buildings have been truck bombed? Embassy security

is a little different. Embassies are more of a target, don't ya think? It's insulting to support a woman who wants to pay her maid slave wages and falsify official documents to allow it. If she was strip searched (and there are different levels) it's because she's accused of a felony. Sorry, I hardly think her being arrested warrants the reciprocal activities of the Indian government.

And btw, it's not like the last consul general didn't do something similar. His maid filed charge and said she was basically forced labor. A current parliment members wife just beat her maid to death.

[smitra]

50. For the last time, they are NOT withdrawing security from the American Embassy.

Please get all the facts before you hurl accusations. See my post # 30.

[okaawhatever]

90. I have the facts straight. They removed the cement barricades but left the security guards. nt

[smitra]

96. So they did not WITHDRAW SECURITY as you claimed in your earlier post.

See here: http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-the-devyani-khobragade-saga-is-yet-to-unravel/20131219.htm#1

Quote: " ...The removal of barriers around the US embassy in Delhi is not directly related to the Khobragade incident.

It now appears that the parking slots allotted to Indian diplomats in Washington were removed some months back. Despite repeated appeals by the mission, nothing was done. So India decided to open the barricades around the US embassy in Delhi more as a tit-for-tat measure..."

Reciprocity is standard operating procedure in diplomatic issues.

Also, since you say that you have the "facts straight", let me present you with some more facts, presented in the context of your earlier query about how many Indian buildings have been truck bombed.

1. No US diplomatic premises in India have ever been truck bombed. The closest that anything resembling an attack on US embassies/consulates was a gun attack on security guards at the US consulate in Calcutta (Kolkata) in January 2002, resulting in the deaths of Indian policemen.

2. In 1993, many prominent buildings in Mumbai (Bombay) were bombed, including the stock exchange and a major shopping mall. I have a friend who lost her husband on that terrible day.

[psychopomp]

113. You could have another look at the post to which you are referring

You'll find this pertinent bit concerning security:

Removing security barriers around the American Embassy in India in response to their diplomats treating workers like slaves, is THE outrage

See? That's how this sub-thread got started. Now, you are making the accusation that the poster claimed something that is inconsistent with the original quote. You may be just mistaken or, perhaps, in your rush to cast aspersions, you forgot what was originally said.

Neither of the bullet points that you mention have any bearing on the issue. US embassies are targeted worldwide these days. There is no reason that just because nobody has attempted to carry explosives by truck or any other vehicle yet that such an act of terrorism will not occur in the future. Your second point is, while distressing and unfortunate, entirely tangential to the topic.

Reciprocity is standard operating procedure in diplomatic issues.

...And yet, once again, you raise a point that is not pertinent to the discussion.

[smitra]

117. I am always careful in responding to posts...

With all due respect, I submit that you are mistaken in interpreting what I commented. You quote this pertinent bit:

"Removing security barriers around the American Embassy in India in response to their diplomats treating workers like slaves, is THE outrage.."

IF ... and this is the keyword ... IF ... security was REMOVED, that would be an outrage, for sure. My post provided evidence that security for the embassy was not removed. Going to the websites I have quoted would inform you that the Indian Ministry of External Affairs has said that anything that was necessary to provide full security was still in place. All the EXTRAS that the Americans wanted ... such as a vast number of reserved parking spots, to the inconvenience of other embassies in the area ... have been taken away. The American embassy has the same level of security that India provides to the Israeli embassy - also a major target.

The Americans have wanted special privileges like tax-free imports of liquor, passes so that they would not have to stand in line at security in airports, etc. SOMETHING THAT DIPLOMATS OF OTHER COUNTRIES DO NOT RECEIVE. It was provided as goodwill, and on the basis of reciprocity. That's the context in which I brought in reciprocity.. consequently, it IS pertinent to this discussion, as much as the picture of Bloomberg in this thread is.

[psychopomp]

134. Your contorted effort must be very straining

Again, security was removed. That is clear. To what degree it is necessary, you may argue the point, but you do not get to maintain that security was not removed without defying logic.

US embassies have been targeted world-wide and the Kenyan atrocity should be a lasting, sad reminder of this fact. If you believe that concrete barriers are unnecessary, that is fine. But you cannot argue that security was removed. You can debate whether or not the embassy is "secure," but the removal is incontrovertible and, the original poster contends, an outrage.

[smitra]

135. Nonsense, it is you who is contorting the facts to suit your preconceived notions.

As mentioned here - http://www.rediff.com/news/report/india-retaliates-stops-special-treatment-to-us-diplomats-at-airports/20131219.htm - what has been removed are traffic barriers that gave American diplomats special parking spots, etc. This was a PRIVILEGE given to them, in reciprocity, which has now been taken away.

You have mentioned the bombing of the US Embassy in Kenya. If security had truly been removed from the US Embassy - and it was truly insecure - the State Department would have evacuated all non-essential personnel, kept only a skeleton staff and severely restricted access to the embassy. This would have been done especially now - in the light of the unfortunate events in Benghazi. The State Department has done this in South Sudan recently.

Instead, John Kerry and Under Secretary Wendy Sherman have called Indian officials and, according to some sources speaking to the Press Trust of India, distanced the State Department from the statement issued by US Attorney Preet Bharara - at least for now.

[psychopomp]

140. The article you link to does not describe what you claim

The relevant quote is here:

The traffic barricades near the US embassy on Nyaya Marg here were also removed.

If the traffic barricades were not security measures you'll find my mea culpa forthwith. However, you've not ruled that out with this article.

[smitra]

143. I have made other posts on this thread that quote from the Indian Ministry of External Affairs ...

... that state that the removal of these barriers were being considered even before this unfortunate incident because similar parking privileges given to Indian diplomats in DC were taken away in recent months. Principle of reciprocity. Once I find a very definitive link, from a reputed source, I will be sure to post it in another response to your post.

But note what I said in my post.... if security measures were truly removed to the point of being dangerous to US personnel, they would have been evacuated forthwith. Besides, on the principle of reciprocity, the US Govt. could leave the Indian Embassy in DC in a state of similar security. I do not know if you are aware of the fact that there are plenty of terrorist organizations - the Lashkar-e-Tayiba to name one - who would love to drive a truck bomb into the Indian Embassy.

[psychopomp]

144. None of which is germane to this sub-thread

From the article in the original post:

Police also removed the traffic barricades near the U.S. Embassy in New Delhi, a demand by the Indian government in retaliation for Khobragade's treatment, PTI reported. The barriers were a safety measure.

You've made a lot of claims that run not only counter to the post that began this sub-thread, but also counter to the article in the original post. You've been wasting a lot of time and effort to muddy the waters. Until you can find a source that specifies that the security barriers were not used to protect the embassy you have no grounds for any reasonable argument.

[smitra]

146. I have already mentioned that when I find a definitive source for this I will post it.

I am sorry that you think that presenting an argument about how modern, democratic governments, of countries that have both been subject to heinous terrorist attacks, and which have had by and large friendly relations till now - namely, considering what the results, and consequences, of actually removing security would be - seem to you to be "muddying the waters." I will end my comments on this sub-thread by reiterating that the Govt. of India has NOT left the US Embassy insecure - and a spokesman for the Foreign Ministry has said that, as of now, the US embassy has the security it needs, and nothing more.

Thank you.

[psychopomp]

180. You see, in the end you've established that the barricades were removed

and the original article says that this was done in retaliation for the treatment of the Indian diplomat.

So, after all of your hand-waving, we can conclude that just as Jesus Malverde said at the outset, security barriers were removed.

There is nothing you can say that will change that fact. You are welcome to have opinions about the relationship between the two countries, how secure buildings in India are, etc. But, that does not change the fact that Jesus Malverde's outrage was directed at something that actually happened.

[smitra]

183. Amazing how little effect FACTS posted on this board have.

You are now shifting your ground and saying that your point was that "barricades" were removed. All the posts on this sub-thread, including the one that I posted quoting a spokesman of the Ministry of External Affairs, says, yes, they were removed. As another post on this sub-thread says, these barriers are placed at the discretion of the Government, to control traffic, and are not a NECESSITY to ensure safety. The spokesman says that the US Embassy has, and has always had, the security it needs as per Indian law.

I will take the word of the Ministry spokesman over the faux outrage of some uninformed DU member. And this incident has revealed the colossal ignorance, and - as cosmicone has commented - the 'denseness' of so many DU members.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see, none so deaf as those who will not hear."

[Recursion]

164. The word "barriers" may conjure up the wrong image

They're "traffic calming" devices that slow down cars. It's not even a Jersey wall; it's like metal sawhorses, staggered in different lanes so that traffic has to merge. They're set up seemingly at random throughout Indian cities, and allow police nearby to see traffic all in one lane, moving relatively slowly. (That's the theory, at least; autorickshaws and motorcycles tend to make a mockery of it in practice.)

They're a nice security feature in that sense, but they're not really comparable to a hard line, and they're placed in the public street fully at the discretion of the Indian government.

[smitra]

148. As promised up-thread, here is a link that quotes a spokesperson of the Ministry...

... of External Affairs, India.

Link: http://www.business-standard.com/article/politics/india-fully-committed-to-vienna-conventions-external-affairs-ministry-113121800322_1.html

For your convenience, the title of the article is:

"India fully committed to Vienna Conventions: External affairs ministry
No change in the security situation with regard to any diplomats in India, including the US diplomats, says the ministry"

...

On being asked about the removal of barricades outside the US embassy in Delhi Tuesday, he said: "There is no change in the security situation with regard to any diplomats in India, including the US diplomats. They will have full safety and security within the confines of the Indian law."

[Recursion]

175. Huh? Those barriers are everywhere

They're all over the place.

[muriel_volestrangler]

181. They aren't a feature of all buildings

The poster I was replying to was saying that the diplomat was being treated just like all arrestees are treated, and that the Indians are outraged she was treated like an American. The DUer is outraged that the barriers were removed. I am pointing out that barriers are not a feature of a typical building in Delhi, yet he seems outraged that the Americans in Delhi are, in the matter of road barriers, being treated like Indians.

[Recursion]

182. No, but I can see six sets of them from my window

They're not remotely rare and most "important" buildings have them, at least in Mumbai (I haven't been to Delhi in a while)

[The Stranger]

32. When did "prisoner" become "detainee." So Orwellian.

[Jesus Malverde]

33. Around the time..

Citizen became consumer.

You make an interesting observation about my lexicon. We live in interesting times..

[okaawhatever]

41. There is being "processed" for an arrest and then there is being officially entered into the prison

system/population (prisoner). Most jails have this process and use these terms. A detainee is one who may make bail. To reduce costs, they have the processing where normal booking measures are taken. After so many hours if bail is not made the detainee is put into the prison and becomes a prisoner. It's not Orweillan, it's standard procedures. There's no reason to charge the taxpayers for placing someone inside the prison/jail portion when they will make bail.

[Recursion]

171. A "prisoner" is someone who's been convicted of a crime

A "detainee" is someone who is being detained, for whatever reason.

[The Stranger]

185. Not always. Inmates charged but not convicted are referred to as prisoners.

Prisoners of war are also not convicted of any crime.

[intaglio]

101. No they are not all subjected to this type of search

Post #151 by Downtownhound in this thread makes that clear

... as somebody who's been to jail twice for non-violent civil disobedience and strip searched once,

emphasis mine

[AtheistCrusader]

2. The mighty sure get pissed off when treated like anyone else.

[Jesus Malverde]

4. ^^^This^^^

[closeupready]

141. ^^^^This.^^^^

[DeSwiss]

5. Who is this dipshit federal prosecutor?

Has he never heard of diplomatic immunity? I realize that foreign nationals have been brought here by Saudis and other countries, and then treated like virtual slaves. Maybe if these ''diplomats'' want to bring workers here or to other nations at their embassies, etc., then they should be required to pay the wages to a third party in the host country to insure they are paid correctly and treated properly. Make everyone do it then no one can claim they're ''special.''

- And someone needs to check NYC's water. I think the LEOs are going nuts. Or maybe it's just the Bloomberg virus......

[Jesus Malverde]

6. it's complicated...

Japanese Diplomat Living In San Bruno Sentenced For Domestic Abuse

U.S. charges Russian diplomats with healthcare fraud
lol and this... Lavrov says Russian diplomats on Medicaid deserved it

I like your idea of an escrow account for wages and bloomberg still sucks.

[DeSwiss]

19. Yeah, I see where he's......

...been a busy little beaver, but I still don't see how diplomats can be subject to our laws. I recall some pretty serious charges being laid against The House of Saud's diplomats (some prince) that didn't go anywhere, a while back.

Emperor Bloomberg, on the other hand....



...is the only guy that I know that makes people long for the days of this guy:

[Jesus Malverde]

20. Thats awesome..!

[AtheistCrusader]

8. Diplomatic immunity doesn't apply to visa fraud.

There are rules. You must play by them. Otherwise DI is waived.

[okaawhatever]

42. I don't think she's considered a full diplomat. it appears she only has DI for work-related crimes.

Certainly not paying a domestic worker minimum wage qualifies as non-work related.

[7962]

10. Then we need to check the water nationwide! Cops aint what they USED to be 30-40 yrs ago.

[DeSwiss]

11. You've got my vote.

- I only drink it filtered through my Berkey!







When Resistance Becomes Duty

[7962]

14. What a great picture! I grew up watching Adam 12.

And I know that today criminals are more violent than in the past, but they havent risen (or sunk) to a level that excuses what we see with the police now days.

[Brigid]

79. I remember that show.

I used to watch it as a kid too. I surely wouldn't let a kid that age watch today's cop shows.

[onpatrol98]

102. I was just about to ask...

Who are those guys?

[Recursion]

165. Roughly, the early 1970's

SWAT as a concept was developed in response to UFW's protests in Delano, CA, in IIRC 1969 or 1970, and quickly adopted by nearby LA. A few years later, LA had an operative SWAT team for the SLA shootout, but hadn't adopted the fully paramilitary "look" we associate with them today; the first time that hit the public airwaves I know of was with MOVE in Philly (notice a pattern forming here?)

[QuestForSense]

15. I vote for the Bloomberg virus.

Highly contagious and so much, much more pernicious than first suspected.

[DeSwiss]

21. I find it hard to argue against a good point, such as you make.....

...however, as they say in the moves:

''there is another whose powers are just as strong, if not stronger.''




Click Pic 4 Answer!

[QuestForSense]

23. Oh, you are so correct!

[Recursion]

104. There are levels of immunity; hers was relatively low

As a Consul, she has immunity only for her official actions.

That said, India has since attached her to the mission to the UN, which brings a higher level of immunity, which will make this interesting.

[TwilightGardener]

12. While her arrest and detention might not have been appropriate, India decides to retaliate

by inviting a terror attack against the American embassy there? SERIOUSLY?? We need to pull our people out of there--are India's leaders so fucking unstable that they would have our people exposed to slaughter because their little upper-caste princess had a finger in her butt during law-enforcement processing?

[Jesus Malverde]

13. ^^^^^This^^^^^

[Old Union Guy]

16. So you OK are about *barabaric* human rights abuse ...

... just because they systematically do it to Americans all the time?

I have a hard time accepting you as a fellow human being.

[TwilightGardener]

17. OK, Sparky.

[leftynyc]

29. What would you like the police to do

to someone who lied on immigration papers and forced someone to work for $3/hour? Put them up at the Plaza? No sympathy for this woman.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

37. Cavity searches for

brown people is OK.

[CFLDem]

43. Cavity searches for anyone processed through the prison system is ok.

Safety 1st!

[FrodosPet]

97. They didn't search the 15/16ths of me who is European American

They only searched the 1/16th of me that is Native American

[Recursion]

24. The barricades are manned by Indian police who mostly nap while their unloaded assault rifles...

... lean against the wall next to them.

Honestly, the embassy and consulates could save a TON of money by following US labor laws, which would let them lay off most of the local staff and deny maternity leave to the ones who remain.

Seriously, this is idiotic. The State Department follows local labor laws in every country, and expects their counterparts to do the same.

[TwilightGardener]

39. Well, that's awesome (RE the embassy security). Not like American embassies

and consulates are ever terror targets, huh? Would have been nice for India to allow the US to investigate the circumstances of the arrest and jailing, and make appropriate corrections (and apologies, if necessary)--but they had to knee-jerk react against our personnel.

[smitra]

30. Educate yourself about details before you accuse...

Quote from an Indian news site: http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-fuming-government-gives-us-taste-of-its-own-medicine/20131217.htm#1

Quote from slide 2: "The royal treatment given to the US embassy by the Delhi traffic police will also be withdrawn. The security check post will remain, but the traffic barricades that were set up as a favour for the Americans at cost of other embassies situated in the Chanakyapuri locality have been removed.

At the airport or around the embassy, what all is “legally allowed” and “necessary for security” will be provided, a government official said, adding that “nothing more or nothing less” will be given.

The other embassies in the vicinity had to suffer due to US’ dominating security presence in the area, who would neither allow smooth vehicular movement in the front or the back lanes of the embassy nor allow parking in close-by areas.

...."

Note the last quoted paragraph.

Also, re: your comment about "upper-caste princess" - Dr. Khobragade is from the Dalit (formerly known as the 'Untouchables') caste.

[TwilightGardener]

35. LOL.

[closeupready]

48. No laughing allowed! Shame on you!!

[smitra]

55. Another totally inane, one word post that does not address the SUBSTANCE of the issue raised.

This seems to be a characteristic here on DU, when confronted with FACTS that go against pre-conceived notions and biases. When you can't address them, take refuge behind inanities like acronyms, icons, etc.

Frankly, is this a forum where substantial discussion on issues that confront this country and the world at large take place, with an open mind? Or is it a place where people feel good by denigrating others - never mind the facts?

[Recursion]

106. She's also incredibly well-connected (her father was IAS)

And she's in some trouble in Mumbai for illegally getting a condo in a posh neighborhood that was supposed to be set aside for families of soldiers killed in Kashmir.

Actually, from my worm's eye view here, most of the anger is being directed at the Congress party...

[karynnj]

38. I think people need to get to the truth here

No one seems to have asked the NYC police for their version of what happened and even her lawyer does not confirm that she was strip searched.

It could well be that that never happened and she spoke of that to generate the outrage that she got. Outrage that might not have happened otherwise.

In another article - http://qz.com/158861/new-yorks-arrest-of-an-indian-diplomat-has-triggered-a-full-scale-retaliation-in-india/ - you see that part of the retaliation is that India will retaliate against any American diplomats who do not follow Indian norms. 2 ways listed were to target gay couples or people buying alcohol.

It seems the State Department needs to get the true story of what happened in the US. She clearly did try to fraudulently get a VISA. It may be that both she and the maid need to be deported. I hope that the US Ambassador to India or Secretary Kerry make it clear that US security cannot be lessened.

[TwilightGardener]

44. Interesting info. Targeting gay couples? Jeezus.

[karynnj]

45. Caveat - I don't know the sorce at all.

However, it does bring up all kinds of questions of which laws in a host country must be obeyed by diplomats. Not to mention, there appears to be a difference between "embassies" and "consulates". The state department spokesperson spoke of some international conventions on these rules.


I hope that this gets resolved quickly.

[TwilightGardener]

47. I don't know that source either. But India's reaction seems downright crazy.

It's like getting into a minor squabble over ten bucks with a friend, so he slashes your car tires and threatens your family. India went right for the terror threat FIRST. Fucking insane.

[Recursion]

105. Modi (the BJP candidate for prime minister) recommended it

Though I don't think it's (yet) anything more than a talking point.

He's having a "rally" in front of the consulate here in Mumbai this weekend. I'll be staying in my apartment...

[karynnj]

112. Stay safe!

[closeupready]

18. Shrug.

(Wake me up when someone has a legitimate complaint.)

[Recursion]

22. India'a blindness here is staggering

Seriously, she was given a Christmas present by only being charged with the visa fraud; anybody else would have been straight-up charged with trafficking in persons.

[cosmicone]

27. The visa fraud was "alleged" and from a nefarious housekeeper

who claimed she was not getting paid the minimum wage.

Dr. Devyani Khobragade was not responsible for paying her housekeeper -- the Indian government pays her. The housekeeper came here and then left her job, claiming she was not being paid the minimum wage in NYC. It is not even clear if the housekeeper was telling the truth.

No arrest was necessary. The diplomat could have been questioned in the embassy by officials and investigated without the barbaric treatment. It was a white collar crime if at all. Dr. Khobragade is not a violent criminal accused of possessing contraband. The strip search was entirely unnecessary.

How many people in Goldman Sachs, Citibank, JP Morgan Chase and Morgan Stanley who caused the world economic collapse have been subjected to strip searches?

It is amazing how many disgruntled techies on DU take out their anger about Indian outsourcing to the point of being blind to any injustice.

Lastly, if Americans want privileges for their diplomats abroad, they MUST sacrifice and give the same privileges to foreign diplomats in the US. It is not a one way street.

[smitra]

56. It is interesting that NO ONE has responded to THIS post that provides the FACTS. n/t.

[cosmicone]

70. They would never have done this to a British, German, French

or any other Western European diplomat. Nor would they have done it to a Chinese diplomat.

There is racism involved here.

[smitra]

72. I AGREE 100%. Thanks for pointing that out... and watch the denials come. n/t

[fujiyama]

73. Also a lot of apologists for the police state here

This is no longer a Democrat vs. Republican issue.

The authoritarians are winning over both parties.

And in a case like this, so called liberals are all of a sudden cool with strip searches and subjecting suspects of degrading and humiliating acts if they're the wrong kind of brown.

[davidpdx]

92. I'm wondering where this information is coming from

I've clicked on and read every story in the thread. The closest thing I can find is this:

The treatment and pay of household staff, meanwhile, is largely seen as a family issue, off-limits to the law.

If you are providing information in the thread that is not in one of the articles I suggest posting a source so people can look at it.

[smitra]

94. Look at this site...

http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-the-devyani-khobragade-saga-is-yet-to-unravel/20131219.htm#1

It is providing comprehensive coverage of this incident. Read this fully.

Quote: " ...


She has broken no Indian law, but the payment of Rs 30,000 a month for Richards was way lower than the US standard.

The passage for the domestic help is paid by the government of India. So are medical and health insurance. During the three year term of the diplomat, the assistant is also allowed free passage home and back.

The outrage against the treatment of the diplomat forced a normally-mild government to take a tough stand
..."

[davidpdx]

95. Thanks, that helps

That could also mean that the Indian Government gives the diplomat a stipend for that service as a part of her compensation package and the diplomat is responsible for paying them. It isn't clear whether the payment is made directly by India or the diplomat. She is probably also given a stipend for child care (an article says she has children I believe).

It still seems we are only being told half the story.

[msanthrope]

115. Can you cite any of what you are claiming? If the Indian government

was paying her...the government would have filled out the visa forms.

[cosmicone]

123. The immediate supervisor selects the employee

and fills out forms. The government pays for the wages and practically all the expenses for its consular and embassy senior staff. That is the norm.

[Recursion]

130. Except that's not what they did

What you're describing is a straight up A-3 visa (and this is a good example of why that's a better way to do it). She came in on what sounds like an amended B-1. (Though she now has a T-1.)

[cosmicone]

132. The maid is a schemer if not a CIA agent

She SIGNED an agreement with the Indian government which set forth terms and conditions. She came here voluntarily - no one forced her on a plane -- and provided health insurance and other benefits. If she didn't like the wages, she could have resigned and the Indian government would have paid for her passage back and sent a replacement.

INSTEAD, she saw an opportunity to get a US Immigration visa for her and her family and made up charges.

The story screams at you that this is not a downtrodden maid. Usually, consular staff and personal staff are educated and speak English -- so she is not some illiterate moron who didn't know any better and was exploited.

She breached the contract and tried to shame her employer for selfish purposes.

Some people on DU automatically take the employee's side as a knee-jerk reaction.

[Recursion]

166. Why would the CIA want someone to spy on a halfway house for trafficked women?

That's where she's been for 7 months now. You don't hire a spy and then get them out of the house they're spying on.

[LongTomH]

31. Gee, what are the Indians so uptight about?

It's not like we were going to stop outsourcing jobs to them.

[SoapBox]

34. From a country that is now even MORE "barbaric" towards it's gay citizens.

India...just watch what kind of stones you are throwing.

[okaawhatever]

49. Is the SF Gate a right wing paper? Theres no mention of the threat to have our gay diplomats jailed.

From Reuters:
A senior member of Modi's socially conservative party, currently favorite to form the next government, said India should retaliate by putting partners of gay U.S. diplomats in the country behind bars. India's Supreme Court last week effectively ruled homosexuality to be illegal.

"The reason why they have arrested this Indian diplomat in New York is violation of the law of the land in the United States. Now the same violation is taking place wherever U.S. embassy official have obtained visas for their partners of the same sex," former finance minister Yashwant Sinha told Reuters.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/17/us-usa-india-diplomat-idUSBRE9BG0NC20131217


The SF Gate updated their story after the Reuters article appeared, so the info is out there. Why aren't they reporting this threat in city with such a large homosexual population?

[Jesus Malverde]

53. SFGate is a hearst publication.

But they don't generally shy away from reporting on LGBT issues..

[alp227]

147. The SFGate.com article is AP copy.

Original AP website has revised the story, Kerry expresses regret over Indian diplomat arrest

[JI7]

51. Barbaric ? they should look at how Females are treated in their country

a lot of them think it's ok to rape.

india is so messed up. and i don't see what was the problem with what happened to this person.

[smitra]

54. Barbaric? Americans should look at how children are regularly gunned down in school in their country

A lot of them think it's OK to kill children.

The USA is so messed up. And you apparently don't know what diplomatic immunity is.

[JI7]

57. yeah, AMerica is pretty fucked up with the teabaggers, whore media, gun nuts etc

and way behind many other places .

what has that got to do with anything ?

an indian actress criticized how females are treated in the country and she was attacked for it and people claimed she was anti indian and otehr stupid shit. this was an indian citizen.

[smitra]

58. Exactly. And the Indian actress was criticized, unfairly. At the same time...

... there were MASSIVE demonstrations throughout the country following the Dec. 16 incident last year, a huge commemoration of that incident was held this year, and (at least some of) the country's laws dealing with rape were changed.

Yes, India is just as messed up as the USA is.

[JI7]

59. i would say india is more so

[smitra]

60. Matter of personal opinion. I disagree vehemently. Leave it at that. n/t.

[JI7]

61. when you look at level of poverty there

and while women still have problems in the US, it's far worse in india.

yeah they had protests but the US had protests against wall street also . doesn't mean these things have improved much.

[smitra]

62. Again, I disagree. And yes, much of the country's problems are due to poverty...

India has 4 times the population of the USA living on one-third the available space. It is certainly not a paradise of any kind ... but it has, in its brief 66-year history as an independent country, largely tried to tackle its problems democratically.

The US had protests against Wall Street. Don't know what that achieved. Don't remember any massive protests for gun control laws in the wake of Sandy Hook, or similar incidents that continue to occur.

Comparisons between countries are odious. Recognize the GOOD in other countries/cultures, give them the respect they deserve and try to emulate what's good in that other culture and missing from yours, while pointing out what may be worth changing there. Do NOT denigrate.

As I said in my previous post, leave it at that.

[JI7]

63. you are the one who brought up the US problems when i criticized India in an OP about India

we went through this crap when bush was president and fucking idiots claiming anyone who critized the us was anti american .

there are good things about india such as the food and music. but they are horrible in how females are viewed and treated.

[smitra]

64. Beg your pardon, you are the one who voiced the personal opinion that India is 'more' messed up.

I am not aware of the depth of your knowledge of Indian culture - food and music are only superficial issues. And again, I will repeat what I said in my previous post - do not make blanket statements like "horrible in how females are viewed and treated". Yes, Indian women face massive problems. But recall that India was the second country in the world to have a female head of government (in 1966, following Sri Lanka in 1960); India has had a woman President; Indian women have been judges in the Supreme Court; the speaker of the Lower House of Parliament is currently a woman, as is the CEO of a major bank... and so on.

The condition of Indian women, and their lot in general, is a complex issue, like many issues that face the peoples of the world. Blanket statements like yours are unhelpful, and just plain wrong.

End of discussion, thank you.

[JI7]

65. so what ? there are problems right now that need to be dealt with

i am indian american so i have some personal connection and knowledge about these things.

[smitra]

66. I am Indian American too, and I was born there, and spent the first 23 years of my life there.

I have a deep familiarity with these issues, not a shallow one that leads me to one phrase comments like "so what?".

You have made clear what your 'knowledge' is, and what your biases are. Given that, there is no point in continuing to discuss. I am posting this response solely to indicate my background and familiarity.

Thank you.

[JI7]

68. and there are wingnuts in the US who who have lived here their entire lives

and yet are so full of ignorance of their own place while someone in another country who has never come here often knows more than they do.

[cosmicone]

67. Food and music only?

For a country of over 1.1 billion people, the birthplace of mathematics and philospophy (I know Greeks would disagree) which has indigenously developed a nuclear and space programs while maintaining a secular democracy in a rough neighborhood, you only find food and music as good?

Perhaps you need to learn more about India and Indians -- a lot more.

[smitra]

69. Amen. And this person (see their post # 68) thinks that they know "more" about the country...

.. than a person who was born and lived there, when just a few posts earlier they mention that all they know about is food and music.

[JI7]

71. i never said "all i knew" about india was food and music, i said currently they are some good things

but you are just doing what wingnuts do in the US with all the BS about how we are the greatest and other shit when people want to talk about problems we have and to try to improve them.

[cosmicone]

74. Don't spin

Your exact quote: "there are good things about india such as the food and music" ... meaning the main things you think that are good about India are food and music.

You complain about corruption in India but it is no where near what the lobbyists do in the US. The pharmaceutical lobbyists WROTE the medicare part D legislation for example.

At least in India, people are caught and sent to jail (albeit rarely) but there is a massive movement to stop corruption afloat which is making a change.

You're not unlike many ABCDs who subconsciously hate being "ethnic" and thus love to hate their ancestral homeland.

[JI7]

75. india is far more corrupt than the US, it's why they have such poverty

i hate on the US also for things like guns , idiots who attack the poor and other shit we have here.

but you seem to have problem with any criticism of india.

[cosmicone]

76. India's poverty is because of corruption?

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahaha

India had poverty from the day the British left and because of socialist policies of Nehru. The poverty has been going down since the economy was liberalized in 1992.

India has the second largest number of billionaires after the US on the Forbes list and real estate is more expensive in India than in the US. An average 3,000 square foot house in Delhi costs about $42 million.

With a country that has 1.2 billion people and encompassing 22 languages, cultures and all the world's religions with a 62% illiteracy rate, what India has accomplished is spectacular.

There is more work to be done but all Indians know this and they keep working at making the country a better place despite Pakistan and China funded terrorists trying to disrupt any progress.

Wait till Narendra Modi becomes the Prime Minister and see the place take off.

You do need to read up a lot more than learning from 8 second sound bites.

[JI7]

84. sorry i don't worship the wealthy, it's like saying i'm proud of the US because the Koch brothers

are rich. or because of Romneys, Bushs etc.

[Recursion]

149. Oh for Christ's sake... shilling for BJP on DU?

That's a new low...

[cosmicone]

150. BJP gets a bad name because of a few extremists making wild statements

but in reality, it is an inclusive party and represents all layers of Indian society.

What is more important is that Narendra Modi has a track record of 13-16% annual growth in his state of Gujarat. He has done more to lift poverty by liberalizing bureaucracy than any other leader.

Look at the per capita incomes in Gujarat vs any other state.

[Recursion]

151. BJP (and Shiv Sena) start riots that kill people

And have an irritating habit of erecting illegal buildings on public land.

They are reactionary, right-wing thugs.

[cosmicone]

156. Shiv Sena -- yes, I agree with you.

However, BJP is nothing like Shiv Sena.

[Recursion]

157. I'll grant you that BJP is better than Shiv Sena

So, there's that bit of common ground...

Maybe I'm a cynic, but when Modi talks what I hear is "the real problem is that we haven't had our turn at corruption yet..."

[cosmicone]

159. Yes, you're a cynic indeed

No one has ever accused Narendra Modi of any corruption and corruption in his state of Gujarat is substantially less than any other state. Like I said in one of the posts above -- there is a lot of work to be done and everyone has unclean hands but it is somewhat inevitable in a noisy democracy of over a billion people and where fractionation between various regional and communal parties forces coalition governments, giving one or two MPs the power to topple governments.

India badly needs a two-party system.

[Recursion]

163. I don't know... it's hard for me to take BJP seriously as anti-corruption when their Maharashtra HQ

is being built illegally after (allegedly) bribes were sent to the BMC.

India badly needs a two-party system.

Look at America... you may find it's not much better...

[JI7]

52. india is one messed up country

and i'm ethnic indian .

the place is so full of corruption. they can't see why it would be wrong to do what she did.

they get more upset when people criticize india even for things like poverty , rape, etc than they are upset about those things happening itself.

[Comrade Grumpy]

77. What does that have to do with this story?

About the alleged mistreatment of a junior Indian diplomat?

[JI7]

78. i didn't see how she was mistreated , my comment is about the outrage

they have over something like this.

[smitra]

80. Correct.

And Post #78 seems to imply that even if she was strip searched, held in a cell with drug addicts, etc., while in the US as a diplomatic representative of another country, is OK in today's world. See post #73, I have no need to repeat what has already been said here.

[JI7]

85. is she too good to be around drug addicts ? as if they are less than human

[smitra]

86. OK. The next time you exceed the speed limit by about 3 mph...

get the officer to clap you in a cell overnight with some addicts who might forcibly inject you with something that could cause you some serious harm.

Just listen to yourself... this is beyond pathetic.

[msanthrope]

114. Um....that's why you are searched...so no one has anything to stick you with.

I'd rather be in a jail cell with some stoner than a human trafficker.

[ripcord]

178. I met some nice addicts

When I was in the LA county jail for stomping a guy who slugged his girlfriend I met a number of people this woman probably would consider to be beneath her, most were just normal people with problems.

[EX500rider]

155. hehehe...good one...

Ever know any drug addicts?

I can tell you with certainty that if one goes to the trouble to hid drugs and needles to sneak them into a jail cell the only person they will be shooting up is themselves.

So you think we need special cells for the "nice" lawbreakers? What other special privileges should the upper classes get? Maybe special car lanes like Moscow had for the Communist party elite?

And all this talk of diplomatic immunity.....I get the feeling most people have no idea what that really means and have gotten some wrong ideas from movies and TV that it is a get out of jail free card for any and all crimes. It isn't. And there are different levels and this persons only protected them in the course of doing their job, not alleged Visa fraud and human bondage.
And if NY does the same kind search to every prisoner then how is this even a issue?

[smitra]

158. No..

I do not know any drug addicts. There is another post on this thread that says that given current US arrest procedures, it would be impossible for a drug addict to sneak any drugs and needles into jail. Your post states that this is possible, and they will only shoot up themselves. I don't know which of these is true, and have no way of verifying either.

People are well aware of what diplomatic immunity is. To quote from the statement issued today by the Government of India... (http://www.mea.gov.in/media-briefings.htm?dtl/22682/Official+Spokespersons+response+a+question+on+the+statement+issued+by+Manhattan+US+Attorney+on+December+18):

"...The action taken against her was not in keeping with the Vienna Convention. There were no courtesies in the treatment that was meted out to the diplomat, under the normal definition of that word in the English language..."

American citizens - New Yorkers or not - can be treated as the law of the city/state/country allows. This cannot be done to a diplomat - who is not in this country in her personal capacity, but as a representative of her country.

[EX500rider]

161. I did not mean to imply it was possible...

......but that drug addicts don't share their fix with strangers.

The Vienna Convention has squat to do with a low level immunity that only covers her at work. She was not covered during the commision of these alleged crimes it has been stated and we will see if it is true.

[smitra]

162. Yes, she was. YOU do not decide whether she was covered or not.

The US is no stranger to using diplomatic immunity to cover up crimes committed by those on its payroll.

Here: http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2013/12/18/diplomatic-abuse-of-servants-not-just-for-indians/

"Earlier this year in Kenya, an American diplomat who police say was speeding crossed the center line in his SUV and rammed into a full mini-bus, killing a father of three whose widow is six months pregnant. The embassy then rushed the American and his family out of Kenya the next day, leaving the crash victims with no financial assistance to pay for a funeral and for hospital bills for the eight or so others who were seriously injured.

“It is difficult for me to handle this matter because my kids need to go to school. They need everything, basic needs,” the widow said. “And we have no place to stay because we have to pay the rent. We have no money. … Even if my kids are sick I have no money to take them to hospital.”

The U.S. embassy commented “The embassy is fully cooperating with the Kenyan authorities as they investigate the accident and work to aid the victims.”

NOTE: The embassy rushed the American and his family out of Kenya the next day - presumably using diplomatic immunity as an excuse. Now, some hush money will be paid.

What works for Americans works for others as well... do not take refuge behind American exceptionalism.

[Recursion]

168. Kenya has not charged him, and the US is cooperating with the investigation

If Kenya charges him and asks the US to present him for trial, we'll see what happens.

[smitra]

169. No, Kenya has not charged him. The US Embassy made pretty sure of that by flying him...

... and his family out the next day, presumably using diplomatic immunity as the excuse. Co-operation? Probably discussing how much hush money should be paid.

Read the full blog. Plenty of instances of US diplomats doing far worse things than Dr. Khobragade, and getting off with just a little slap on the wrist.

Yes, we'll see what happens in Kenya, IF anyone is paying attention to it in a few months.

[Recursion]

170. India was free to fly Mrs. Khobagadre out if they wanted; they've known about this since September

And, hey, if Kenya does present charges and the US withholds him, I'll be the first to line up at the protest with you.

[smitra]

172. Yes. It is a pity India is not as smart and efficient in protecting its offending diplomats...

... as the US is. Probably less practice.

[Recursion]

173. They think detention is only for Italian diplomats?

Incidentally, this may all just be a pleasant preview of what will happen when Mrs. Gandhi's January 2nd deadline to appear in US court over the '84 riots comes...

[smitra]

174. Don't see the parallel. As far as I know, the Italian ambassador diplomatic immunity...

... was taken away at the Indian Supreme Court's request until the offending Italian marines returned. He could not, and did not, leave the country. He certainly was not treated like Dr. Khobragade was.

I am not aware at all of any court case pending against Mrs. (Sonia?) Gandhi in the US.

The issue in this sub-thread is how the US whisked away a diplomat who was himself going to be charged with a crime - not his compatriots - as was the case with the Italian marines in India. The US has no intention of ever letting that diplomat appear in a Kenyan court, I am sure.

[Recursion]

176. It's a civil case, filed by a Sikh-American group

under the auspices of a 1992 law that gives victims of torture and other crimes standing to sue for damages in US courts against foreign government figures.

It will surprise me if it gets very far, sovereign immunity being what it is...

[smitra]

177. True. And Sonia Gandhi will not appear, just as Union Carbide Chairman Warren Anderson...

... did not appear in an Indian court to respond to charges involved in the 1984 gas leak.

[Recursion]

179. Yep. 1984 was not a great year (nt)

[indio55555]

81. LOL

You must hate yourself when you look in the mirror and realize your an INDIAN!

[JI7]

82. as much as i hate myself when i bashed Bush, the current republicans and other things about the US

[JI7]

83. and unlike many people in india i don't worship white skin

and use chemicals and shit to try to make myself white.

[cosmicone]

99. Right on the money! n/t

[cosmicone]

87. More Information -- Unbelievable conspiracy on the part of the US

1. The US Marshals violated their own policy in doing a cavity search.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Search-on-Devyani-may-even-be-illegal/articleshow/27611083.cms

USMS directives stipulate that such searches can be done only if there is "reasonable suspicion" that the person arrested is carrying contraband or weapons, is a repeat offender or is considered a security, escape or suicide risk.

Thus, the cavity search was done purposely to humiliate a foreign diplomat in violation of the policy.


2. The maid (Sangeeta Richards) is wanted in India under a court warrant and was absconding in NY. HER ENTIRE FAMILY WAS ISSUED US IMMIGRATION VISAS ON DECEMBER 9 AND FLOWN TO THE US AT TAXPAYERS' EXPENSE ON DECEMBER 10. Dr. Khobragade was arrested on December 12 as soon as the maid's family was safely in the US.

This should not be suppressed. I am not going to donate money to any democrat's campaign until this is resolved to my satisfaction.

[Blue_Tires]

88. So were the immigration visas issued based on fraudulent paperwork or no?

I'm trying to separate the outrage of "she was treated like some common criminal" versus "she didn't do anything wrong and the U.S. manufactured the case"

[cosmicone]

89. The maid was not issued an immigration visa

she was issued a temporary work visa for the duration of the consul general's service in the US.

NOW she has been issued an immigration visa because she claimed she wasn't paid the minimum wage.


Looks like the maid's in-laws work for the US Embassy in Delhi -- and it now looks logical that the maid was a CIA agent, discovered by Indians and when an arrest warrant was issued for her in New Delhi, she and her family were whisked away.

[Recursion]

129. The warrant from Delhi is for charges of defamation and blackmail

Which, as far as I can tell, consists of the maid describing to US authorities her working conditions.

This "the maid is a spy" nonsense make the Indian position look increasingly ridiculous, though in fairness I haven't heard any officials run with it.

Remember: the NY consulate was given four months to resolve this situation, and knew the entire time that the DA was contemplating criminal charges.

[cosmicone]

133. The US attorney is someone who hates being Indian American

and tries to bring trumped up cases against people from South Asia when he has let go all the crooks from Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, AIG and BofA.

If he ever ran for public office, I would vote for anyone who is against him -- even Louis Gohmert.

All this was utterly unnecessary and a strip search/cavity search for a white collar crime is unheard of.

Howe many CEOs of corporations who are charged with criminality are strip/cavity searched?

Lastly, this would not have happened if the diplomat happened to be British/German/French or of the right color.

[Recursion]

137. Well, that's certainly the opinion here

I've rarely seen such bile in the press as the attempt to shoot this messenger.

But, hey, now we get to watch Congress and BJP try to out-pander each other over this, so at least there's that consolation.... I'll be interested (to say the least) in what Modi says this weekend.

[JI7]

154. he must hate italian americans also since he goes after italian mafia

and he must be a communist since he goes after corporate whores.

bunch of bs.

[davidpdx]

91. She wasn't given a cavity search

She was strip searched.

USMS spokesperson Nikki Credic-Barrett confirmed that Khobragade was subjected to a "strip search", but claimed that this was as per standard procedures.

USMS directives in place since 2010 clearly lay down four kinds of searches: pat-down search, in-custody search, strip search and digital cavity search — the last two used only in specific circumstances.

According to these directives, a strip search is a "complete search" of the prisoner's attire and a "visual inspection" of the prisoner's naked body, including body cavities, and stipulates certain procedures for it. USMS defines a cavity search as involving intrusion into a body cavity (mouth, ears, nostrils, rectum or vagina) by an officer using his hands or a medical device.

"Strip searches on prisoners in custody are authorized when there is reasonable suspicion that the prisoner may be carrying contraband and/or weapons, or considered to be a security, escape and/or suicide risk," the USMS directives clearly state.

Subjecting Khobragade to such searches, besides being disproportionate, was clearly in violation of the USMS' own rules, experts in India said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Search-on-Devyani-may-even-be-illegal/articleshow/27611083.cms

While I agree even the strip search is too much and a pat down would have really been sufficient, it doesn't warrant posting information that is inaccurate.

[Recursion]

108. She is "wanted" because Khobragade filed a lawsuit against her to shut her up

And the judge (friends with her influential father) granted the warrants against Richards and her family.

[cosmicone]

126. The judge and father don't even know each other.

The suit was brought by the Indian government in Delhi because THE MAID VIOLATED HER EMPLOYMENT CONTRACT AND BECAME A SECURITY RISK. The suit had nothing to do with Dr. Khobragade.

[davidpdx]

93. Both sides have blown the whole thing out of proportion

The consular should have been given a light pat-down as she was not a threat. If detaining her was necessary they could have asked her to stay at her apartment until the arraignment and have her visitation restricted to consular services (as they would be had she been put in jail, which is pretty much the same for any foreign country).

I see a lot of misinformation being given. She was given a strip search, which I disagree with as I said above. Some are continuing to say she was given a full body cavity search which is not true. I also see claims that say she is not responsible for paying her nanny and that the Indian Government does. I don't see proof of that either way.

The Indian Government has also put out press releases on 12/13 and 12/19 about the nanny absconding (thus implying she is a criminal). I think those allegations need to be looked at very carefully. What happened in the time between when her passport was revoked in July until now? I'm not sure we are getting the full story.

The removal of the barriers in front of the embassy only jacks up tensions. Furthermore (and one of the articles stated this) an election is coming up, so some of this is just pure posturing by the minority party to get votes.

[cosmicone]

98. There was a warrant issued to arrest the maid

in Delhi high court in July.

In response, the US issued immigration visas to her entire family and flew them to NY at taxpayers' expense on December 10. On December 12, Dr. Khobragade was arrested and shown a manifestly excessive treatment.

It smells like the maid was a CIA agent and when India issued arrest warrants against her, instead of handing her over, we covered it up with inhumane treatment of a diplomat.

Serves us right that Snowden is safely in Russia, leaking info weekly.

[davidpdx]

100. Well a warrant in Delhi court won't go far if the maid was in the US

It would be just like the US issue a warrant on Snowden. If she is not legally extradited it is meaningless. If there is creditable evidence the family will suffer consequences as a result of the charges, then it would make sense the family would be brought over. I'm curious what evidence that would be (as I'm sure you are).

As for the maid being CIA that sounds like CT to me. As I've said a few times in this thread I don't think we are getting the full story. The only ones we have heard from are the diplomat and the Indian Government, both of which are claiming to be the victims.

[cosmicone]

107. US and India have an extradition treaty

If a warrant was issued in Delhi, the US is treaty bound to arrest the maid and extradite her to India to face charges.

Instead, the maid was given protection and the counsel was assaulted by the US Marshals.

It is hypocrisy -- when a CIA contractor was arrested in Pakistan for KILLING two Pakistanis, the state department squealed like a wounded pig and uttered all sorts of threats. In other words, every foreigner is subject to US laws but no American is subject to foreign laws.

[Recursion]

109. OFFS... the maid was not a spook

A judge in Delhi granted a warrant in an attempt to shut her up, and just like we always do, we granted a visa so she can stay in the US and aid our prosecution.

[anasv]

103. Let's get the facts straight here.

The Indian government was warned weeks ago that she was being investigated for treating her employee like a slave. They did nothing.

She dehumanized her employee.

Her diplomatic immunity does not apply in this case.

So she gets arrested and treated like any other incoming prisoner. Tsk, tsk.

The fact that Indian officials in the US have a history of treating their workers literally like slaves at home and in the US does not make it okay in the US.

[cosmicone]

110. If an employee of an Indian diplomat

says he/she was treated as a slave, it must be true because such employees would never lie in order to get a shortcut US Immigration Visa.

[smitra]

111. You got it! Amazing how the posters on this board have tried and condemned her BEFORE...

... an actual investigation. And now posts are appearing saying her father has used his "influence" as though it were a confirmed fact. The father has actually gone public with his story here:

http://www.rediff.com/news/interview/we-are-victims-of-tensions-between-india-and-us-devyanis-father/20131219.htm

[Recursion]

128. Well, Maharashtra seems unlikely to do anything about her Adarsh condo scam...

But, yeah, the case against Richards and her family is transparently intimidation, which is why State was willing to get them a visa.

[smitra]

131. The Adarsh issue is not relevant here. As for the case against Richards,....

... let the law in India take its course. One can argue as to whether India has jurisdiction, or the US has, over this case. Irrespective of that, Dr. Khobragade, as a DIPLOMAT - an official representative of another nation - should not have been treated the way she was. Preet Bharara denies it now, Dr. Khobragade's father denies Bharara's statement. One cannot - and more importantly, SHOULD NOT - state that one is telling the truth and other is not, on this forum.

[Recursion]

153. It goes to her credibility. She already lied about the body cavity search

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/12/19/india-demands-that-us-drop-case-against-diplomat-who-was-strip-searched-in-new-york-city/

She was not given a cavity search, per the US Marshals.

[msanthrope]

116. Repeating Indian tabloid nonsense isn't helping your defense of a human trafficker. nt

[smitra]

118. Where has this post quoted a "tabloid"?

And who are you to judge that the sources this poster is presenting information from are tabloids?

This American exceptionalism nonsense must end. If the American authorities do something, it is right by definition... if another country/culture opposes it, it is wrong... and needs to be denigrated.

[msanthrope]

119. I think Recursion has addressed the tabloid nonsense pretty effectively upthread.

And I am proud of American exceptionalism when it takes a stand against human trafficking and paying less than the minimum wage. Fuck the caste system.

[smitra]

120. Recursion is not an authority, and there are plenty of quotes upthread that discredit ...

... what your closed mind seems to believe as the truth quoting legitimate news sources. You have chosen to ignore them.

Where does the caste system come into the picture here? Have you read my post upthread that informs you that the diplomat concerned is herself a member of the Dalit caste?

Spare me the "oh-we-are-so-moral" attitude about human trafficking and minimum wage. Americans - including American diplomats - do not pay the US minimum wage to their employees in other countries, and are guilty of exploiting them. One of the reasons why the Indian Government has asked the US Embassy for information about the wages paid to Indian personnel who work for them. In this context, you have also missed the post in this thread that says that the Government of India pays the health insurance and travel to home country costs for domestic workers of Indian diplomats.

Once again... quit the attitude of superiority, behind whatever facade you choose to put it.

[msanthrope]

121. Welcome to DU. Recursion *is* an authority here. And you are defending a human

trafficker who decided to lie on a visa form.

Fuck the caste system.

[smitra]

122. I disagree that Recursion is an authority in this case - he/she is not. Also...

...it has not been proved that the diplomat is a so-called human trafficker, lied on the visa form, etc.

You have chosen to repeat the line "Fuck the caste system" and totally ignored the content of what I had to say. Further evidence of a closed mind.

Therefore, I will conclude with "Fuck your racism. Fuck the legacy of slavery, segregation and continued discrimination."

[cosmicone]

125. What a maroon (as Bugs Bunny would say)

Last edited Thu Dec 19, 2013, 03:35 PM - Edit history (1)

The Consul General Dr. Khobragade is of the "dalit" (formerly untouchable) caste and her maid is from the UPPER caste.

Wait till US diplomats in India get arrested and strip searched for driving one mile over the speed limit. Then we shall see your respect for law.

[psychopomp]

138. Off-topic: That term is an antiquated, racist smear against a people who resisted slavery

For some reason, I see it used most often on DU. I hope that once you learn about the Maroon people you'll be of the mind to refrain from contributing to its prolonged existence on DU.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maroon_people

[cosmicone]

139. I used it as a Bugs Bunny quote.

No racism was intended. Thank you for your link and I shall remain sensitive as well as provide context.

[psychopomp]

142. I, too, love Bugs and remember his using it all the time

Nobody uses it with the intent to be racist, I doubt even Bugs did. Thanks, though, for your kind reply.

I'm sure that the DU'ers that use the term would be supporting the Maroons if they were around today. Side-note: The Maroons in Jamaica were the antecedents of the Rastafari movement.

[psychopomp]

136. "Welcome to DU"

You should have had a look at smitra's user profile. Had you done so, your passive-aggressive attempt at branding smitra as an "outsider" would have been revealed as being misplaced.

But don't let me get in on your efforts to hasten the DU slide to irrelevance.

[cosmicone]

124. Human trafficker?????????????????????

OFFS she is an acting Indian Consul General in NY. She was allowed to have a maid at the government's expense. The maid signed documents of confidentiality and non-disclosure and agreed to take her grievances before an Indian court.

Instead, this scheming maid saw an opportunity to get a US Immigration visa. She absconded and CLAIMED all sorts of stuff which has not even been investigated as to its veracity and you're already convicting a respected Indian physician and diplomat already.

Some people on DU are just too dense.

[smitra]

127. "Some people on DU are just too dense"... you got that right!

Or is it that these people deliberately don't want to hear anything that goes against their preconceived notions?

[Recursion]

167. Yeah, and after the Malhotra incident last year...

... saying "she's the acting Indian Consul General in NY" doesn't exactly do anything to clear her of human trafficking.

I'll be the first to say it's not remotely just India; the Gulf states' diplomatic corps have an even worse reputation, but they also seem to be better at covering it up.

She was allowed to have a maid at the government's expense.

And Richards alleges, credibly to both the US attorney and the women's shelter she fled to, that Khobagadre instead kept the money that was alloted to Richards. Does that make it true? No, that's why we have trials. But it wouldn't even be the first case of this among the Indian Mission to New York in the past year.

Also, asking for the back wages to which you are legally entitled is not "blackmail" in any sense of the word; Khobagadre, Delhi, and the Consulate have known for four months that this was a legal problem that they needed to fix, but instead they got a judge to slap a judgement against her in Delhi, which precipitated this whole mess.

[Warpy]

152. Yeah, they treated her the same as they treat US citizens

and yes, it is barbaric.

Thank you, failed war on drugs.

[TwilightGardener]

160. According to the US Attorney and the Marshals, she was not cavity-searched.

(So right there, she's already possibly a liar.) She was allowed to keep her cell phone, made multiple phone calls, was offered food, was housed with females, and was strip searched in private by a female guard. She's doing a whole lot of screeching in order to gin up outrage and sympathy and distract from her criminal charges.

[smitra]

184. With a measure of sadness, I am trashing this thread.

Over the past two days, in this thread and another related one on LBN, I have learned something about my fellow DU members. What I have learned has been a revelation to me, and a disappointment.

1. I have noted the tendency to accept what the American side says as the gospel truth, and either ignore or demean what the other (Indian) side says. Even when facts are presented, the posters' minds are not changed -- it is as if they deliberately do not want to see what is being pointed out. This is especially galling when the instances of American hypocrisy - the fact that the US protects its own erring diplomats by hook or crook, and gives them a slap on the wrist at best - is pointed out, it elicits no response.

2. More importantly... out and out racism. The point of no return on this was a poster who said that they are allowed to absolutely hate one thing, and in their case, they hate India, and would like to see it populated by 2 million tigers and nothing else.

I have now realized that while my outlook and attitude is similar to my fellow DU members when discussing US political issues, we are far apart in our attitudes towards other countries/cultures. A belief in American exceptionalism seems to be ingrained in some posters - the liberality of the board does not extend to people beyond the US' shores.

I shall therefore be trashing any India-related thread henceforth.

To those few DU members who responded with some evidence of an open mind, thank you.