Statewide ban on single-use plastic bags, fee for other bags proposed

[alp227]

Source: LA Times

SACRAMENTO — Many more Californians would have to pay for paper or reusable plastic bags at the grocery store under a new agreement by key state lawmakers that would ban other plastic bags.

After three unsuccessful attempts to outlaw single-use plastic grocery bags statewide, legislators announced a compromise Thursday that they said appears headed for passage. Their proposal would impose a 10-cent fee on alternative bags while banning single-use plastic bags.

"This breaks a decade-long deadlock on a statewide solution," said Mark Murray, executive director of Californians Against Waste. "This bill is going to eliminate some 20 billion single-use plastic bags that become waste, that become litter."

The new proposal would exempt those on food stamps from the fee and would be phased in starting July 2015.


Read more: http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-plastic-bags-20140124,0,6264807.story

---

And in other news, teabaggers want to be known as plasticbaggers.

[tofuandbeer]

1. Los Angeles only banned plastic bags as of Jan. 1st of 2014, and I've already noticed...

that I don't see plastic bags blowing around in traffic, sitting in gutters, etc.
It takes a few times to get used to bringing in your own bag, but it will soon be commonplace for us all.

[CreekDog]

26. Home Depot has some reusable bags that are big, strong and fold into pocket size

And they were 50 cents each. i bought a few. San Mateo County banned "single use" (as they are commonly referred to) bags for non hot food purchases.

So now, you either pay 10 cents for a paper bag or you use your own. Sometimes i forget and end up with the paper bags, which i can either reuse or recycle.

but over a period of months, i just remember to carry a reusable bag in with me, the lightweight ones are cheap and they were easy.

Our county is practically surrounded by coastline and bayshore. The critters there are harmed by plastic litter that hasn't broken down, and they are harmed by the litter which has broken down.

For their sake, and the sake of future generations, I can pay 10 cents a bag or bring my own.

This is not asking me to be Mother Theresa. We can handle this.

[tofuandbeer]

30. I live near the coast, too. I like the idea of the fold up bags.

I have those big Trader Joes type with the handles.

[CreekDog]

34. i have a TJ's bag too, even JCPenney has a resuable cloth bag they sell you if you need a bag

theirs was 40 cents I think.

i prefer the ones that are really strong, but super light.

since i usually have these bags with me, i find myself using them for other things, like bringing lunch to work, or since they're always in the car or one is always stashed in a backpack, I always have a bag onhand to transport things easily.

[SoapBox]

2. We never had bags blowing around in the South Bay.

The LA City Council swooned when the parade of Hollywood types came to the meetings about this ban...wild stories of bags blowing around like "tumbleweeds".

Bullshit. In areas where trash was never controlled or picked up bags, along with other crap was around.

They refused to impose stricter composition (requiring bags to be bio-degradable) as well as stricter recycling.

This whole thing hits the "little" AND lower income people the hardest. Not to mention the skanky/dirty bags that people are already dragging into the stores. If I were a grocery clerk, I'll refuse to touch them without gloves.

This REALLY pisses me off.

[RC]

15. You are spot on!

And not only that, there is no such thing as 'single use' grocery bags. Most people reuse them to carry stuff, store things in. Use them for wastebasket liners. Wrap the chicken packaging to keep the smell down till trash day.
I especially have a problem with the scuzzy bags some people bring to the grocery stores to take their food home in.
I have never seen any of these snow storms of bags, the aloof are decrying about. Not in anywhere in 45 years living North Dakota and not in Kansas City, since I have been here.
They tried biodegradable bags once. That was a major problem because the bags did not last long enough to get your groceries home. More than once the contents were dumped on the ground on the way in, as the bags disintegrated. They were also worthless for secondary uses because they fell apart too easily.
Stores have tried to have bins/barrels for people to bring back they 'disposable' bags for recycling. But that did not work because so many people were already recycling them for other uses.

[CreekDog]

22. is that science? you haven't "seen blizzards of plastic bags"?

so that means plastic bags aren't a pollution problem? they are. your own agency for water pollution protection thinks so.

[wercal]

53. I second the use for wrapping the used chicken wrapper

...I'm not really sure what I'd do without several bags to wrap them in.

And I have personally seen an argument at the register - because a clerk didn't want to touch the re-useable bags that I could smell from a few feet away.

I don't see a lot of bags lying around either...but I have to admit that I don't see a lot of trash on the ground, period, as it just blows away here Kansas.

I do re-use them as trash liners, and find lots of uses for them etc.....and I dutifully bring the extras to the store to stuff in a box.

We tried cloth bags ourselves - frankly we forgot them half the time, we were constantly re-arranging the cart to keep the bags on top and ready for checkout, it slowed the clerk down...and they got dirty. Again, back to the chicken, or the milk that leaked, etc. Some people scoff at the notion that groceries can be dirty - but ask them what they do if they buy a greeting card, or light colored yarn, or generally anything that doesn't have a 'wrapper'....most of us do not lay that type of stuff on the belt, because it is disgusting and often wet from produce or meat juices or who knows what. And the clerks can sometimes be seen cleaning the belt - they don't do this because groceries are clean...they do this because they are dirty.

So as our cloth bags fell apart in the wash and due to use, we haven't replaced them. Plastic for me...for as long as I can, I guess. You'll probably get some flak for advocating them as well. I need to invent a machine that 'sucks in' a plastic bag, so the per bag fees can be treated as a deposit.

[RC]

60. I'm glad someone else gets it.

I occasionally see a plastic bag flying around or trapped in a tree, but I see a lot more paper fast food wrapping and drink cups laying or blowing around.

Plastic grocery bags are like cell towers. Someone decides they are ugly and they don't like them and suddenly the crowd wants to be hip, or whatever and not like them too. No thinking needed.
So with the trash bags, they stop using them for secondary purposes and start buying more trash bags to make up the difference, while claiming they are Green now too. But they don't get rid of their cell phones though.

[pothos]

21. No problems here in Alameda county

people with an EBT card can get free paper bags. so the point about this affecting low income people is moot. also, it is no challenge for anyone to purchase a cloth bag for $1. it will pay for itself within 10 grocery store trips.

[Gormy Cuss]

31. Not all low income people have an EBT card, so it's not a moot point.

Also, it is a challenge for some people to purchase cloth bags and ones that last longer than a couple months cost more than a dollar.
But do go on pretending this doesn't impose an unequal burden on the poor.

FWIW, I use canvas bags for groceries and ChicoBags for most other purchases. I'm not opposed to a ban on the flimsy plastic bags. I just think charging for paper bags is excessive and disproportionately a burden on low income people.

[pothos]

39. i'm poor.

i purchased a cloth bag, like i said, it pays for itself within a few weeks of buying it. after that you end up saving money in the long run! 99c only store sells these cloth bags and they definitely last longer than a few months.

[Gormy Cuss]

45. You're only *saving* money because you'd be charged at the store now rather than get the bag gratas.

In fact, you will be charged if you ever show up without that cloth bag or if you buy items that won't fit in the bags that you brought with you. The choice then becomes putting back some items or spending the ten cents per bag --which may be the more practical choice rather than waiting for a subsequent trip with the attendant additional costs of time and transportation costs. One way or the other, it costs.

Because there's an incentive to overload the reusable bags if one doesn't have a stack of them, it's easy to burst a seam or break a handle on the cheaper bags. Even the nylon foldables (like ChicoBags) have the bursting seam problem and they cost $3 and up.

Charging per bag exerts a stronger incentive on low income people than on middle and upper income people. For people who can afford it, the bag charge just becomes part of their budgets unless they have an environmental awareness. It's the same way it plays out with container deposit laws -- upper income people who redeem those bottles and cans are the ones who believe in recycling. Others just put them out in the trash.

I'm all in favor of positive incentives (like free reusable bags and credits for using same) but not the punitive charge for paper bags.

[pothos]

47. no... i'm saving money because bringing a bag gets you a refund

bringing your own bag here in alameda county = -10c per reusable bag you bring. so after 10 uses of a bag that costs $1, i begin getting money back that i wouldn't have if they were still giving plastic bags away for free. this is what i mean. i know not everyone has an EBT card, but those that do can get a paper bag for free if they forget to bring a cloth bag. i used to have an EBT card and took advantage of that until my cupboard was literally full of paper bags. i'd rather have the 10c or 20c off everytime i use the bag rather than have a cupboard full of paper bags.

if i use 1 cloth bag even just 3 times a week, that's 30c per week or $15.60 a year in refunds.

[Cha]

62. And, the really Big Picture..

We are helping our Environment! :

[L0oniX]

29. Plastic bags help float my yacht...

[progree]

3. "It's yet another job-killing, big grocer cash grab masquerading as an environmental bill"

Context: from the article:

A coalition of bag makers led by Hilex Poly of South Carolina denounced the proposal Thursday.

"It's yet another job-killing, big grocer cash grab masquerading as an environmental bill," said Mark Daniels, an executive with Hilex Poly and chairman ofthe American Progressive Bag Alliance, a trade group.

"Big Grocer"?
American PROGRESSIVE Bag Alliance?

[SoapBox]

18. At a local Fresh and Easy...

I got told,

"...it's going to save us tons of money...we don't have to buy them, stock them or mess with that recycling AND make money on the paper and the bags we sell you. It's a great deal for us!"

The little people get screwed again.

[CreekDog]

23. the "little people" are paying now to clean up plastic contamination

you think that's free? you think that isn't a growing problem?

read up on it.

[L0oniX]

28. It helps my boat float ...damn it all

[upaloopa]

37. How? You think creating non disposable waste is good for little people?

Like climate, we have to begin somewhere to stop acting like we are the only ones that matter.

[fbc]

4. But I use them when I clean my cat's litter box.

so technically they are dual use, not single use.

Also, they make good trash bags for people that live in hi rise buildings and have a trash chute.

[newfie11]

5. So do I. Nt

[Politicalboi]

6. I do too

I double bag kitty litter. I hate to find that hole in the bag after it's full of litter.

[leftynyc]

7. Same here

Perfect for cleaning the litter boxes (I have two). I can't think of a time when I didn't save those bags for another use.

[upaloopa]

38. The reason isn't because people use them once or not.

They do not decompose. No matter if you use them for cat box cleaning or not you throw them away sooner or later.

[leftynyc]

41. I understand the concerns

but trying to ban plastic bags is not going to work. You have half the country who simply doesn't give a shit and even worse, will do everything they can to stop it just for spite. I get my groceries delivered and they don't even give me the option of paper bags so I do what I can - reuse the bags as many times as feasible.

[upaloopa]

42. When there is something wrong doing nothing because

the majority doesn't give a shit isn't even in my way of thinking.

[leftynyc]

43. I never said to do nothing

That would be absurd. I'm just being realistic.

[upaloopa]

44. Sorry I misunderstood your post

[CFLDem]

8. Yup same here.

More politicians trying to major in the minors.

[Starry Messenger]

9. We save and reused produce bags for cat poop. We just did a long term cat sit for friends.

Our county has had the ban for months now. It takes a little adjusting, but isn't awful. I'm still experimenting with bin liners. I got some biodegradable ones which were fine for dry trash. They fell apart with wet kitchen garbage, so I bought some generic small hefty bags.

We have the trash chute too.

[Gormy Cuss]

32. I wish that I could find biodegrable bags that could stand up to moisture for a week or so.

Then I'd never have a reason to use plastic.

[Starry Messenger]

46. Same here!

I hate buying them, but there was no other choice.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

10. Now we'll have to buy rolls of plastic bags for pet droppings ...

... and those bags will CERTAINLY be "single-use".

[Curmudgeoness]

51. That was my first thought too.

I use them for everything.....cat litter, my weekly garbage fits in one. I would have to buy plastic bags if they were not available.

[MadrasT]

12. I think everybody with a cat saves them for that.

Cleaning the cat box.

Or for used paint rollers.

Or for yucky drippy toilet scrubbies.

Or for kitchen scraps (no garbage disposal).

I reuse the heck out of those bags.

[meti57b]

14. Exactly!!! Those aren't plastic bags, ... they are cat poop containment devices!

[Triana]

16. Same here. I also save cereal bags, bread bags

tortilla package wrappers, and produce bags, for that purpose - I reuse them all.

I suppose one could use paper lunch bags for cat litter - but they aren't very sturdy and if the stuff is wet/stinky, they don't contain it very well/at all.

[SoapBox]

17. Don't forget the doggie do pick up!

Two a day on the dog walks (minimum), I use them to line my juicer ejection container, I just used a bunch to wrap and pad Christmas decor, etc. ALL torn or damaged ones have always been returned to recycle bins.

Another thing...did ya know that apartments and mobile home parks are NOT required to provide recycling bins?! It's considered a "burden" by the city.

It's all political and big money bullshit.

[Throd]

19. Dog poop, cat poop, fireplace ashes....

[SoCalNative]

36. Before my city in CA passed a ban on plastic bags

I ordered a box of 1000 of them from Amazon. Cost me less than $30.00.

[kestrel91316]

55. I use produce bags and bread bags and other food bags to dispose of my cat litter scoopings.

Half the grocery bags had holes in their bottom seams anyway, so I NEVER used them for litter disposal.

[Squinch]

58. I use paper bags for the trash chute. You fold it and tie a piece of jute string around it to keep

it from spilling. Our porter says they break less often than plastic which splits at the seams, and when folded over and tied they are as good as plastic against the smell.

A ball of jute costs about $3 and lasts a year.

[santroy79]

11. same here

we reuse for cat droppings.

[Le Taz Hot]

13. I welcome this.

I've been using canvass bags for many years now and you can get 2-4 times more stuff in a canvass bag than you can a plastic bag. Plus, the store gives me from 5 cents (Save Mart/Food Maxx) to 6 cents (Winco) credit per bag. When they get dirty I just throw them in the wash with the towels. Most of the time it takes years to wear them out and by that time they've more than paid for themselves. At Winco they're only 88 cents each. Plus, we have a Senior day at our local county fair and vendors have LOTS of giveaways, including, some great canvass bags so not only do I get in for free on that day, I get free REALLY good (and big) canvass bags. As a result, I haven't actually had to buy a canvass bag in probably 8 years.

As for kitty litter, I just put the litter directly in the garbage (which as a plastic trash liner in it already) and take it straight out to the garbage so it doesn't stink up the house. Problem solved.

[Throd]

20. You must have a tiny garbage can.

[L0oniX]

25. "canvass bags" is the way to go but then people have to use their brain to rememeber to bring them..

...and that may be too much to expect from people.

[Le Taz Hot]

40. As long as I've been doing it

I still forget sometimes and have to use plastic.

[pothos]

24. never thought i'd see DU holding water for the plastic bag industry

yeah some of you reuse them for other purposes, but the majority of them end up in gutters, in landfills, in waterways, etc. up here they estimated that a million plastic bags made their way into the SF bay every year.

[OnionPatch]

27. I re-use or recycle my plastic bags. But

I applaud this. Many of us are responsible about the use of plastic bags but way too many of them are finding their way into the environment regardless. There's an island of plastic waste floating in the ocean the size of Texas. I'll adjust. Gladly.

[LiberalEsto]

33. Montgomery County, Maryland has been doing this for a couple of years

and it's no big deal.

Places sell reusable bags for 99 cents or less. After a while you get used to grabbing a stack of re-usable bags before going shopping. The trick is to keep them in the car and visible.

You can also pay 5 cents per plastic grocery bag at the store and then re-use them, or start storing them before the law goes into effect. .

One benefit is that the reusable bags are much sturdier and thus less likely to break and dump your groceries on the ground. The bags also come in handy for vacations, packing extras, moving things.

[upaloopa]

35. Oh no what do I do with the cat box poo?

Really I am for this law. San Lois Obispo already has this law. We take cloth bags when we shop there. Some merchants still have plastic bags but grocery stores do not. It's weird the first time you buy groceries and no one bags your stuff. No bags in sight.

[Herself]

48. plastic = petrolium

There are countless ways that this country has been deliberately made to keep the oil elites in obscene profits.

Plastic's , cheap throw aways, fill our landfills, and contribute to oil profits

Traffic lights out of sync. This costs commuters increased gas consumption. Fixing them is much cheaper, reduces petroleum dependance, but the gas/oil moguls pay little dollars to prevent it.

Drive thru's and skeleton crews... Oh the line gets longer, your vehicle idles... and you save ? Time? Gas?

Traffic "studies" .. will always be jumping over dollars to save dimes for commuters. Stop, go, roll, traffic idles your engine.. Christi dumped the tunnel because he said "NJ" couldn't afford it.. He meant that the gas/oil bro's didn't want the efficiency for commuters cutting into their profit margin and he had another agenda...

Thats for starters.

How many energy "pirates" do you have built into your home furnishings?

[wercal]

56. You might be putting too much faith in organized conspiracies

I don't think petroleum companies invented the drive through, for starters.

But also, I work for an engineering company, know several people specifically certified to do traffic studies, and I have participated in many traffic studies myself. I can assure you that there are no outside influences, such as big oil, are conspiring to alter the outcome of traffic studies.

And, I don't know what oil and gas moguls would be responsible for traffic lights, but we don't rely on them to 'fix' traffic lights....nor do we need to. Actually, communities are investing more and more into light timing technologies to prevent idling, etc.

[Herself]

63. it depends on your need to know and access

to the high level , closed door strategies

I'm not saying that big oil makes a call to communities and orders traffic lights neglected.

It doesn't work that way. Not at all.

Perhaps you see it as a coinky dinky as they used to say?

[wercal]

64. I've slinked in and around city and state government for a while

...And you remind me of a former local radio personality. He would see conspiracies and graft and collusion in all corners of government.

I would often chuckle - he was wrong 100% of the time. I always thought - if he would quit chasing the nonsense theories, he would have time to see the real conspiracies right in front of his face. I even e-mailed him about one once, and got totally ignored.

Trust me, I guarantee you, 110% positive, absopostivlutely....there is no conspiracy to deliberately make traffic signals 'not work'. There are no 'high level, closed door strategies' to implement such plans either.

In fact, as I tried to tell you - our city (like many others) is implementing a timing system to create 'tunnels'...once you catch a tunnel, if you go 35 mph, you can go through a dozen straight greens - its great. Also, our community, like many others, is building roundabouts at all new major intersections, instead of new signals. Also, our city traffic engineer is doing studies at older lights, and removing the signals that are no longer warranted.

Maybe I'm not privy to the parallel universe bizzaro world where the reverse is happening in the matrix...but back in this dimension, lights are getting better, despite the worst intentions of the Empire.

[dipsydoodle]

49. Rec.

All plastic carrier bags should be banned everywhere too.

[freshwest]

50. Those bags were just quietly eliminated at all the places in my neighborhood. Now it's buy a paper

bag for a nickel, but most of the time they'll give one free, or buy a resusable bag for a really low pirce or bring your own.

The common remark by cashiers is if you even want a bag. A lot of people don't want to be bothered if they didn't buy much stuff.

It's not an inconvenience, it doesn't affect the ability to take things home. This is a no-brainer since the damn plastic bags always sucked, too easy to split and lose stuff.

The foldable bags that take up about the space of a postcard are being given away free, too. The people that see this as a sign of freedom lost, like that idiotic Libertarian whining to an LA councilman 'big government is controlling our lives!!!11!!!' need to have their heads examined.

California is doing a good thing.

[Adsos Letter]

52. We use canvas bags for most groceries, and those insulated bags for the cold stuff

Trick is to remember to pull them out of the trunk of the car before going in to the store.

[kestrel91316]

54. Fine with me. We had to give them up on Jan 1 and the world hasn't ended.

[Warpy]

57. Things like that usually happen on the left coast first

and gradually spread eastward. I would love to have non disposable bags for everybody but I know a lot of folks who are already introducing their backbones to their belly buttons will have a very difficult time to pay for them up front.

I would rather lug 2 heavy canvas bags than 10 partially filled plastic bags.

[Squinch]

59. Great idea. I hope it comes to my state.

[Cha]

61. We've had an Island(and Maui) wide ban on plastic bags provided by stores for

3 years now. The grocery stores use bio-degradable plastic bags for produce. Everybody has their own bag now.

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/13827367/plastic-bag-ban-begins-on-kauai-and-maui-fee-discussed-for-rest-of-state