Fatal shooting of Florida teen turned over to state attorney
Source: CNN
Posted: Mar 14, 2012 7:40 AM CDT Updated: Mar 14, 2012 7:40 AM CDT
Vivian Kuo
SANFORD, Florida (CNN) -- A case involving the fatal shooting of an unarmed Florida teen, which has sparked outrage and calls for justice, is in the hands of the state attorney's office.
¬snip¬
A gunshot can be heard on the 911 calls recorded that night, police said.
The Martin family has sought to make the tapes available, but State Attorney Norm Wolfinger said Tuesday the calls will not be made public until the investigation is complete.
"Trayvon Martin and his family, interested persons, and the public-at-large are entitled to no less than a through, deliberate and just review of the information provided, along with any other evidence that may or may not be developed in the course of the review process," Wolfinger's office said in a statement. "We intend to honor that commitment."
Read more: http://www.12newsnow.com/story/17154848/fatal-shooting-of-florida-teen-turned-over-to-state-attorney
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sinkingfeeling
(51,457 posts)
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)From Where the FUCK did you graduate law school? Regency U? Oral Roberts?
How about a simple, We cannot comment on an existing investigation. Some evidence may be released when circumstances permit.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,343 posts)As for law schools, I thought all law schools have a required course called Bloviation 101.
And this is a lawyer AND politician. Double the longwindedness. Political party is irrelevant. Try telling Schumer to "keep it short, and to the point".
My favorite was a local city attorney (S.E. Mich) who muscled his way to the podium to give a five minute speech on the reasons he could not comment on the issue at hand. Now THERE was a lawyer!
barbtries
(28,798 posts)just plain murder. i hope there will be some justice for Trayvon.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)barbtries
(28,798 posts)i didn't say they did.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)barbtries
(28,798 posts)am i a commenter on a message board or the police, prosecutor, jury and judge?
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)MD20
(123 posts)The cops are setting a bad precedent here. They are sending the message that its ok to hassle a person, kill them and claim self defense as long as there are no witnesses willing to talk(hmmm at 7:30 pm no witnesses?). Well, has a lie detector test been offered? Has Zimmerman been read his rights...or has that little technically been over looked, thereby giving the Z man another way out? That creep should have been arrested on "suspicion" of murder and the police spokesman should have been arrested as an accomplice by gross dereliction of duty!
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)and convicted he isnt guilty of murder....sorry but thats how our justice system works right now.
MD20
(123 posts)Why would a case like this have to go to the State Attorney? The County should have handled this by arresting the SUSPECT and offering him a lie detector test! He looks stupid enough to think he could fool the administrator and pass. I doubt he could, but if he did, people for justice would feel a lot better about just letting him walk around free.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)That investigation.
MD20
(123 posts)The completed preliminary "investigation" was sent to the State Attorney on Tuesday for review to determine if Zimmerman will face charges. That review will take several weeks according to the state attorney's office.
[link:http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/sanford-police-hand-over-teens-shooting-death-case/nLRYM/|
But what kind of justice can the Martin family expect? Similar shooting incidents, where unarmed black men have been shot and often killed by police officers, have never been found to be unjustified in Florida! Pondering that fact, one is left wondering if that peculiar tradition will FAVOR Zimmerman.
While you are waiting for the state attorney to analyze the city of Sanford's investigation, try digesting this :
Witnesses told ABC News a fist fight broke out and at one point Zimmerman, who outweighed Martin by more than 100 pounds, was on the ground and that Martin was on top."
Who were these witnesses? Friends of Zimmerman?
I believe this kid (Brown) more than I would adult floridians who may or may not hold a lifetime of ingrained racism in their heads.
If they were both on the ground but separated as Brown said, the cry for help and subsequent shot makes no sense. Powder burns and angle of entry would, with an objective analysis, be crucial here.
An officer at the scene overheard Zimmerman saying, "I was yelling for someone to help me but no one would help me," the report said."
Descriptions of Zimmerman's condition made me tend to believe him until I read this:
The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help."
So much for a fair and impartial investigation, eh? I don't expect much from the state attorney's office. Florida has a history replete with cases of unarmed Blacks being killed by police officers and not one killing has been deemed unjustified. So, given that ABC has already uncovered evidence of "witness tampering by the Sanford PD investigators, your point is moot. We already know the robable outcome.
Still, there is a glimmer of hope. Some neighbors have already pointed to flaws in Zimmerman's character. Some Floridians have come to believe in justice for all regardless of race or Creed. But, will the state attorney delve deeper or just accept the fudged police report at face value? I hope I 'm wrong, but I doubt it!
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)TIA
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)TVMIA
MD20
(123 posts)Is this the excerpt that has led you to question my veracity?
The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help.
"
TA-DAHHHHHH:
[link:http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-shooting-trayvon-martin-probe-reveals-questionable/story?id=15907136|
csziggy
(34,136 posts)The standard is four paragraphs and a link to the source.
MD20
(123 posts)Thanks. Post #62 was originally posted with all necessary links, however, the link function doesn't always work properly. My mistake was not double checking. It was late and I was anxious to get to bed. I wish everyone here would adhere to that "link" protocol, but some of those who yell the loudest for "proof" don't do it in the interest of "copyright and fair use," they do it to aggravate the person they disagree with. Simultaneously, these same people spout un-linked information incessantly with no one calling them on it.
After reviewing some of your writings, I see that you practice what you preach: an admirable quality and one that has earned my respect, for whatever that is worth ! Again, thanks.
csziggy
(34,136 posts)And I meant to write a longer message and not be so short, but got interrupted.
While the RightHaven people may be out of business we don't need to give anyone reason to come after DU or the users here!
Thanks for understanding that my message was cautionary not snarky.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)MD20
(123 posts)
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)In this tragic circumstance...
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)since they clearly sat on their asses for three weeks and only started moving when the victim's family went to the media and the story went state then national...
barbtries
(28,798 posts)
meeksgeek
(1,214 posts)"Evidence that may or may not be developed...?"
Unless there is *photographic film* involved, no evidence should "be developed." Uncovered, perhaps.
yardwork
(61,622 posts)"The evidence and testimony we have so far does not establish that Mr. Zimmerman did not act in self defense. We don't have anything to dispute his claim of self-defense, at this point, with the evidence and testimony that we have," Lee said.
A white neighborhood watch captain in a gated community shoots an unarmed black teenager who is visiting there and the police don't see a problem with this?!!!!
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Someone was fatally shot. Obviously the police DO see a problem with it. That's why it's being investigated.
yardwork
(61,622 posts)Based on the police chief's logic, any murder would be considered self-defense unless the victim proves otherwise. Difficult, since the victim is dead.
This happened two weeks ago and the investigation seems to be going nowhere. Now the state of Florida gets a chance to weigh in. If, as I suspect, the investigation still goes nowhere then it will be time to bring in the feds.
It's very clear what is happening here.
obamanut2012
(26,079 posts)That is for a JURY to decide, not officers responding to a shooting and death. They are to take witness statements. They also didn't even take Zimmerman's statement until after he was questioned, which is 100% against SOP.
MD20
(123 posts)Way back in post#44, you told the real deal
but your un-linked prose was received with a chill.
I came along and saw it,
t'was my duty to unthaw it.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-shooting-trayvon-martin-probe-reveals-questionable/story?id=15907136
obamanut2012
(26,079 posts)
Enrique
(27,461 posts)when this odd policy becomes widely known, I think there will be an increase in shootings.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Otherwise he could file a Habeas Corpus petition and get himself released.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)and they know Zimmerman shot him. Obviously they can arrest him based on that, and it is very bizarre and disturbing that they did not.
barbtries
(28,798 posts)are you saying that the body of the victim does not constitute evidence that a crime was committed?
how many murders are witnessed? the kid is dead. the man, clearly, shot him. and for what? what kind of threat did he present, walking home with his Skittles in his hand?
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Mr. Zimmerman has to be presumed innocent unless there is evidence that his actions were unreasonable.
barbtries
(28,798 posts)accused of ANY crime has to be presumed innocent in this country! it is the law of the land.
presumed innocent does not mean that he cannot be jailed and charges brought.
i don't know why you seem to believe that this killing is some sort of special case and that the killer should be left free even though the victim - defenseless, totally valid purpose for his presence - is DEAD. he's dead and he was killed by this person for no good reason. in my book that is murder and it is my belief that he should be charged.
i wasn't there and i doubt you were either. do i think shooting an unarmed person is reasonable?? almost never and certainly not in this case.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)I'm not willing to jump on EITHER rush-to-judgement bandwagon without more information.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)Legally, as strange as it sounds, the presence of a dead body doesn't mean that a crime was committed. Typically, in a case like this, one of two things would happen.
1) If there's direct evidence at the scene that puts the shooters "self defense" claim into question (witnesses, shooter inebriated, shooter has a violent criminal history, shooters story contains obvious fabrications, etc), the shooter will be arrested immediately.
2) If there is no direct evidence to counter the self defense claim, the case will be forwarded to a grand jury, a higher authority, etc. for further investigation. They will determine whether charges should be filed. It sounds like this is what is now happening.
The police cannot arrest you without evidence that you committed a crime. While I'm not terribly familiar with Florida law, my reading suggests that their Stand Your Ground statutes specify that "self defense" shootings are NOT A CRIME. This differs from states like California where self-defense is merely a defense to be used in court. If a self defense shooting is defined as not being a crime by statute, then the police cannot even arrest him unless they have evidence that it was NOT self defense. They can't arrest someone UNTIL there's evidence that a crime was committed.
And yes, it does mean that any shooter can claim that it was justified to escape arrest. Scenarios like this one are exactly what people were screaming about when Florida passed its Stand Your Ground laws a number of years ago.
barbtries
(28,798 posts)though i'm not in FL i do recall thinking that it was a license to murder. very sad.
in my opinion there was quite a bit of evidence to support an arrest. an unarmed dead body chief among them.
well the last chapter of this story is far from having been written already. hopefully justice will be served.
florida's law is wack imo.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Skittles
(153,164 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)You do have a dog in the fight.
Skittles
(153,164 posts)yes INDEED
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)And ask yourself whether the armed black killer of the unarmed white teenager would be walking around a free man because the police couldn't prove it wasn't self-defense. In Sanford, Florida.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)yardwork
(61,622 posts)MD20
(123 posts)it should be evident to you by now that even if he DID commit murder, the Sanford police wouldn't arrest him. Instead, according to ABC news, their investigators appear to be willing accomplices by engaging in witness intimidation.
Perhaps, it is time to end your sympathy for the Sanford police and Zimmerman. Your Democrat card is coming perilously close to being pulled.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Such nonsense. The only sympathy I have for George Zimmerman is that I'm glad not to be in his shoes. As for the police, I'm glad I don't have to do their job, but I surely don't share your contempt for or distrust of them.
MD20
(123 posts)I think anyone reading your posts concerning this matter would agree with me in assessing your overly protective mindset when it came to Zimmerman and the Sanford PD. Shall I ask for a vote?
NAH, I won't bother. But, now I ask a similar question to the one you directed at me: Who appointed you judge of who has contempt for or who has distrust of the police. This discussion was centered on the Sanford PD and the State Attorney. After reading post#62, I cannot fathom why anyone of sound mind would trust the officers conducting the investigation. Besides, a quick google search would, as you know, provide ample evidence to support my "contempt" for southern justice and the myriad racist police departments that dot the south. Having retired as a cop, I know what I am taking about first hand!
Paladin
(28,262 posts)slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Even for a Friday.
Paladin
(28,262 posts)And just for the record, I was completely sober when I raised the question of your status as a Democrat......
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)
Paladin
(28,262 posts)The beer in my fridge isn't green, but it's mighty tasty. Have a good evening and an even better St. Pat's Day......
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Have a good one!
yardwork
(61,622 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)do you realize how very controversial it is, what you are saying! I hope they don't get a photo of Obama hugging you! 
MD20
(123 posts)to do a competent investigation in this case. Otherwise the Z man would have been asked to take a lie detector test.
He doesn't have to take one but his refusal would certainly be noteworthy.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)MD20
(123 posts)The results could be used as a tool to extract admissible information.
An attorney would likely advise him not to take one for that very reason.
OTOH he could pass it and silence his critics.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)They're notoriously unreliable and easy to fool.
MD20
(123 posts)
Justice wanted
(2,657 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)I suspect he was already buddy-buddy with some local cops...He was studying criminal justice at the local JuCo, and with his volunteer experience in the neighborhood watch probably intended to join the force...
MADem
(135,425 posts)I was thinking it should become a federal case if something didn't happen, soon. I was not buying that police chief's bullshit about "investigating"--how much fucking investigation does anyone have to do? We have a dead kid with CANDY, a big sweaty guy with a gun and a criminal record, and a damn phone call where the police told the idiot to get in his car and WAIT for the police. That kid did not approach the murderer, the murderer approached him.
Jesus! I am with the NAACP--mark me down as another with ZERO confidence...
Evasporque
(2,133 posts)Zimmerman cannot prove self defense and Martin is dead of a gunshot from Zimmerman's gun....he had no probable cause or official authority to approach Martin and so Zimmerman's actions constitute at minimum assault and battery with intent to cause grievous bodily harm and ultimately manslaughter...
When the tapes are released it will show Zimmerman was racially motivated and his actions and result will of broken several laws.
cstanleytech
(26,293 posts)Any idea how long then until they release them to the public?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)been released...
A couple of lines from the transcript have been leaked (and as I knew from the start it does NOT look good for Zimmerman) but I'll wait for official confirmation and the full transcript
Piazza Riforma
(94 posts). . . if it really backed up his self-defense claim as "proof" that guns "save lives".
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Time to expand the conspiracy theory.
Piazza Riforma
(94 posts)of self-defense the Sanford PD would have made the tape available to the press that evening. It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to see that something is not quite kosher at the Sanford PD.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)It has been referred to the state attorney, by the Sanford PD.
Maybe the state attorney wants to avoid polluting the jury pool with prejudicial information.
csziggy
(34,136 posts)Which essentially says that if you feel threatened you can use whatever level of self defense you think justified.
(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or
(b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or
(c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or
(d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
(4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
(5) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.
(b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.
(c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html
Frankly, I want to know what evidence there is on the young man of any scuffle. If he has no marks, I would be suspicious of the marks on the killer - he could have inflicted injuries on himself to justify his killing. The news reports said that the killer had blood on the back of his shirt - whose blood? There have been no reports that the young man had injuries from an altercation - how would his blood get on the killer's shirt, if it is there?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)If it's proven by the 911 call (and I'm 99.997% certain it will be) that Zimmerman was full of shit and the only "crime" Martin was committing was being a young black male walking in a gated community...Then by tailing Martin, Zimmerman becomes the "threat" and not the victim...I also want to know why Zimmerman continued to follow Martin even after being told to back off by 911 dispatch...
And FWIW I believe a scuffle is entirely possible...Some stranger following me in an SUV while I'm walking (Zimmerman isn't wearing any kind of uniform) will definitely put me on edge...The kid could have lashed out, or Zimmerman seems just dumb enough to have tried and 'detained' Martin until the real cops arrived...
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)But seeing that Stand Your Ground has served to at least cast some level of doubt as to whether a chargable offense has occurred--even though I personally think one most certainly did occur--makes me all the more dubious as to the needs for such a law. Personally, I think it encourages vigilanteism.
csziggy
(34,136 posts)Especially when I was young and would walk about at night. I can imagine that a young black man would have the same degree of awareness and paranoia and be defensive if he was accosted by some self appointed neighborhood guardian.
As the person who was responsible for keeping the peace in the neighborhood, in my opinion Zimmerman should be held to a higher standard for maintaining the peace than the average citizen is.
There is nothing that will bring back that young man but I hope there are lessons that can be learned about avoiding this situation in the future. I hate that it is STILL a crime in many places for being in the wrong place while black.
yardwork
(61,622 posts)He was responsible for helping the neighborhood watch program, period. That means he was supposed to call 911 if he saw anything suspicious, period. I helped found a Neighborhood Watch program. The "captains" aren't supposed to confront people they deem to be suspicious. They're supposed to call 911. This is made very clear when the groups are set up.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)In San Diego we use it only for true emergencies, or felonies in progress.
yardwork
(61,622 posts)This incident took place in Florida, not California.
yardwork
(61,622 posts)Take a look. http://www.sandiego.gov/police/services/prevention/programs/neighborhoodwatch.shtml
Note:
Recognize and report crimes and suspicious activities
Also of possible interest, the "job description" for the block captain:
Continuing duties of the Block Captain or Co-Captains. After the group is formed their duties will depend on their organizational skills and interests, and the nature and objectives of the group. The following are some possibilities:
Recruit new members
Maintain a membership list and area map with home addresses
Keep members informed about area crime and disorder
Try to see group members frequently
Establish and maintain a phone tree with home and work numbers that group members can use to contact residents in an emergency
Develop an area activity profile to help members recognize unusual or suspicious activities in the area. This could include vehicle descriptions, work hours, school hours for children, and scheduled services, e.g., gardening
Act as a spokesperson for the group
Serve as liaison with the SDPD
Plan, announce, and facilitate meetings
Organize crime prevention activities, e.g., watching homes when residents are away
Shooting suspicious people isn't included on the list.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)...calling 911 when you see suspicious activity.
If you do that once, you'll get gently scolded by the 911 operator and transferred to the San Diego PD's non-emergency line. Multiple violations will get you fined.
Shooting suspicious people isn't included on the list.
Just for comparison, California state law does provide some protection for people who use deadly force in certain situations. Use of deadly force is explicitly allowed to stop a felony in progress any time, any place.
See http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=187-199 and scroll down to Section 195 - 199.
It's not exactly the same as Florida law, but it's not a whole lot different either.
yardwork
(61,622 posts)In my town the police encourage people to call 911 if they see anything suspicious. I understand that things may be different in San Diego, but the shooting that we're discussing took place in Florida. You don't seem to get that.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)a few years back.
The shooter "felt threatened" by a kid in a Halloween costume.
WTF?
The shooter thought a real zombie was attacking him?
Paladin
(28,262 posts)
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)Last edited Fri Mar 16, 2012, 12:41 AM - Edit history (1)
Back in 1992, Hattori-kun, a Japanese exchange student in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, was dressed up for a Halloween party that his friends were taking him to. However, his friends couldn't find the correct address and they stopped at some guy's house thinking that that might be the place. It wasn't, and Hattori was going back to the car. If the guy in the house had just been content to watch the kid go back to the car and drive away, nothing would have happened. But he decided he wanted to be a Dirty Harry wannabe and opened his garage door. Hattori interpreted that to mean that they were at the right place, so he approached the guy who shouted "Freeze!" Unfortunately, Hattori, whose command of the English language was very poor, apparently misunderstood that to mean "Please" and kept approaching. Then the guy took his gun and shot and killed Hattori. Unbelievably, the jury called it "justifiable homicide", but the shooter lost the civil suit and ended up having to pay a few bucks a month in restitution to Hattori's family.
Paladin
(28,262 posts)There's a definite pattern on display, here......
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)he probably would have been arrested and "mysteriously died" in custody.
MD20
(123 posts)Last edited Thu Mar 15, 2012, 07:03 AM - Edit history (1)
There is no doubt that Zimmerman violated the Civil Rights of Trayvon by confronting and then killing him.
But looking at televised images of Zimmerman's big stupid face, I doubt if he has many viable assets.
After reading the original news piece on this murder, I saw that Trayvon had reason to be in the gated community because his father's girlfriend lived there and apparently he was visiting. Such communities are small and everyone knows each other and what goes on there. So, Zimmerman, as a Neighborhood Watch Captain , likely knew that at least one resident was black or affiliated with blacks.
I haven't heard if the mentioned girl friend was White ...but if so, that might have prompted a bigoted mentality like that of Zimmeran to kill. All of Zimmerman's phone records should be subpoenaed to see who he talked to , not just for that day, but for several months before the murder. Obviously, Trayvon had visited the community previously since he knew where to go to buy Skittles and canned iced tea. Phone calls between Zimmerman and the storekeeper, for instance, might be invaluable for establishing a preconceived mindset with intent to commit murder.
Moosepoop
(1,920 posts)...could I ask you to please self-edit your post and replace the word "retard" (in the first sentence, last paragraph) with something else? There are posters and readers here who find that word hurtful and offensive, particularly those who have familial or other relationships with people who have mental disabilites. It would be a nice thing to do, and greatly appreciated. Thanks. And welcome to DU. 
secondvariety
(1,245 posts)and unless the feds step in Zimmerman will be exonerated and become the hero of the cul-de-sacs.
Somalia ain't got nothing on us when it comes to craziness and guns.
1620rock
(2,218 posts)This big fat stupid looking greaseball committed cold blooded murder. Period. I would say it was premeditated too since he was told to stay in his car until police arrived. But nooo, he had to chase the kid down and blow him away. I would bet he has dreamed about being able to shoot / kill someone since he was 8 years old, and a black guy to boot! How could he resist?
Let the gun-nuts try to defend this killing, they are just doing their cause more damage.
PamKlaus
(62 posts)fasttense
(17,301 posts)I find that hard to believe. I know investigating take time but shouldn't they have some results by now? Can't they even give some indication of what is happening in the investigation?
I guess until the family got the NAACP involved, the police were in slow motion.
"The NAACP has no confidence that, absent federal oversight, the Sanford Police Department will devote the necessary degree of care to its investigation. We therefore call upon you to detail personnel to Sanford immediately to review the facts, ensure that the Sanford Police Department conducts an impartial, thorough and prompt investigation of the circumstances involving the death of this unarmed teen, and ensure that the responsible person is held accountable if a crime was committed," the letter said."
It's interesting that the 911 call was from Z and the responder told Z to not go near the unarmed youth.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)They kill unarmed teenagers on their way home from the store, exchange students in Halloween costumes, Labrador retrievers who run out wanting to play, their own child who jumps out of a closet and says "boo!" their own brother whom they think is cheating at cards--these are just the cases I can think of offhand.
And if they're REALLY angry and their brains are a bit out of chemical balance, they might commit mass murder at the University of Iowa physics department, a McDonald's, a highway rest stop, a health club, a hair salon, a post office, a high school, etc.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)Too many people out there who are powder kegs, waiting to explode.
Unless I am the witness of a mob murder or I have been the repeated victim of burglaries or home invasions, I personally have no desire to carry a gun or even keep one in my house. Underneath my bed I have a 34 inch aluminum baseball bat that I feel perfectly fine using in case of the worst case scenario.
MD20
(123 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 17, 2012, 08:17 AM - Edit history (3)
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/us/justice-department-investigation-is-sought-in-florida-teenagers-shooting-death.htmlWould the murderer be pleading and crying for mercy? I think Martin knocked his larger attacker (Zimmerman) down! Zimmerman, dazed, grabbed his gun, fired and missed. Trayvon dove to the ground, shocked that an apparent madman had accosted him and was now shooting at him. Both were still on the ground as Zimmerman's head cleared. He heard Trayvon pleading for his life but that didn't stop him from firing a second time...this time fatally striking the victim in the chest.
An audio analysis can determine who the pleading voice belonged to. This recording in and of itself should have been grounds for an arrest, even without an analysis.
And the rain kept right on fallin'... the blood kept right on flowin'
Looks like the detectives and forensic team never came to the scene. I guess the shooting of a Black person doesn't warrant the expense. Perhaps they showed up later to recover the first bullet! After all it might have struck a white person or... horrors of horrors... a dog...that would be a real crime! Yes sirReee boss!|
LisaL
(44,973 posts)I don't hear two shots on 911 tapes. All I hear is one shot.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)I listened to all of the released tapes, and no one mentions more than one shot, and the second 9/11 call catches the shot: http://www.wftv.com/news/news/sanford-911-calls-released-teens-shooting-death/nLWWS/
MD20
(123 posts)The sound of the fatal shot might have been muffled if the pistol was pressed against the victim's chest upon discharge.
My link says a witness heard two shots, that does not mean both were recorded... Hopefully the detectives will check the magazine
and the scene to ascertain how many shots were fired. I really don't care...I am just saddened and haunted by visions of a 17 year old kid being murdered for no reason other than he tried to defend himself against a wannabe cop vigilante.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)There are several 911 tapes and there is one loud shot, not two. There might be some sounds on the tapes that the press is claiming to be the second shot, but those sounds are nowhere near as loud as the actual gun shot.
obamanut2012
(26,079 posts)A "warning" shot and a killing shot.
My CCW permit instructor said no one should EVER give a warning shot, because the only reason to ever have that gun out and a round chambered is because you are facing death or grievous bodily injury. Period. Most states have laws like that, and NONE, even Florida, give you permission to shoot anyone if you are the aggressor. This shows that Zimmerman has no business holding a CCW permit nor being on a community watch.
It is still unbelievable to me he was never arrested nor properly questioned, and the crime scene wasn't properly investigated.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Not two.
yardwork
(61,622 posts)The overall picture is quite clear.
MD20
(123 posts)For all you know, there might have been two shots. Apparently one witness said there might have been two shots.
Remember, the 911 calls started after the incident was already in progress... So, cool it... everyone knows the posters here, including myself, are just rendering our opinions... But if the police are tampering with witnesses to make them change their statements, that is what you should be concerned with... that is FAR more serious than any scenario produced here or by the press.
MD20
(123 posts)The press was at the scene, you were not. ALso it appears that the press did a better investigation than the Sanford Police did.
Without them, we would still be waiting for the big honchos to feed us their BS. And, AGAIN,those 911 calls occurred after the fight started so we might have missed hearing one shot... BUt that isn't even important... A murderer walking around free is far more important...Why aren't you offended by THAT?
Little Star
(17,055 posts)Maybe the tv & radio don't have possesion of the whole tape or they just aren't playing it thru till the end due to the cost of air time?
I don't think anyone is just coming up with scenarios. It's printed right in the NY Times.
The NY Times
By Lizette Alvarez
Published: March 16, 2012
Note: bolding is mine.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/us/justice-department-investigation-is-sought-in-florida-teenagers-shooting-death.html?_r=1