MISSING MH370: Fake passport bearers bought tickets together

[brooklynite]

Source: New Straits Times (Kuala Lumpur)

KUALA LUMPUR: The two people who travelled using passports belonging to an Italian and Austrian on the missing Malaysian Airlines (MAS) MH370 seemed to have bought their tickets together.

CNN reported the tickets were issued together and bought from China Southern Airlines in Thai baht.

The two tickets both started in Kuala Lumpur, flying to Beijing, and then onward to Amsterdam. The Italian passport ticket continues to Copenhagen, while the Austrian's to Frankfurt, the report said.

Read more: http://www.nst.com.my/latest/font-color-red-missing-mh370-font-fake-passport-bearers-bought-tickets-together-1.504444

---

I'd say this is starting to move from peculiar to suspicious.

[MADem]

1. Yes--this is "Big News" and a major turn in the story.

Here's more on the whole "passport question" from NYT. I thought two on the same plane was odd, my suspicions were confirmed:

...Steve Vickers, the chief executive of a Hong Kong-based security consulting company that specializes in risk mitigation and corporate intelligence in Asia, said the presence of multiple travelers on stolen passports aboard a single jet was rare and a potential clue.

“It is fairly unusual to have more than one person flying on a flight with a stolen passport,” said Mr. Vickers, who publicly warned a month ago that stolen airport passes and other identity documents in Asia merited a crackdown. “The future of this investigation lies in who really checked in and what they looked like,” he added.

Your latest news is even worse, I think.

[DCBob]

2. Yeah, this is sounding more and more like a hijacking gone wrong.

[reACTIONary]

25. Or one that went the way it was planed. (nt)

[freshwest]

29. From the NYT link (thanks):

Mr. Robertsson said a turn made by the aircraft just before it vanished from radar screens was consistent with its flight path.

Aircraft and boats from China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, the United States and Vietnam searched the area where Malaysian ground controllers lost contact with the plane: the maritime border between Malaysia and Vietnam.

They're doing all the right things to figure out where the plane may be...

[MADem]

3. But wait....there's MORE! NBC news just reported that there "may be" two more people

who travelled on false documents on that plane. No link--this was part of MTP throwing to a reporter who gave an update on this story.

They're also saying that the plane clipped its wing in an accident on the tarmac in Shanghai a while ago, and was repaired.

[brooklynite]

6. Further details...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014749520

[MADem]

12. This is getting pretty dire, I'd say. nt

[Warpy]

28. Well, it was dire as soon as the jet disappeared from radar and radio contact

The only real question is whodunit and if nobody did, where was the electrical fire and how did it go undetected until it fried everything?

[MADem]

30. There was a sliver of hope for a miracle on the Hudson...

Especially since no 'explosion' was detected along the flight path. That hope is dashed, though.

Using a system that looks for flashes around the world, the Pentagon reviewed preliminary surveillance data from the area where the plane disappeared and saw no evidence of an explosion, said an American government official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the subject matter is classified. A team of aviation experts led by the National Transportation Safety Board was on its way to the area.

[dixiegrrrrl]

44. "Using a system that looks for flashes around the world"

uhhh..that would be a satellite, I assume.

[MADem]

45. Something in the Keyhole range, I should think.

KH on steroids, I imagine.

[okaawhatever]

17. 5 people didn't board. People who had already checked their luggage. That is quite odd to me.

"Malaysian officials also said Sunday that investigators had noted that five ticketed passengers failed to board the flight. Their luggage was removed from the plane before it departed, the authorities said."

[MADem]

18. This just can't be typical--all this shit happening around one flight...? nt

[LongTomH]

32. Not odd.......just incredibly careless

Every US airline has a Bagmatch Security system that matches a bagtag number to the PNR (Passenger Name Record) of the passenger. The bag is supposed to be pulled if the passenger doesn't board, or if he/she leaves the plane for any reason.

I worked on the Bagmatch Security system for Northwest and TWA, before those airlines were engulfed and devoured by larger carriers, and before I was forced into early retirement in a 'downsizing' at my old company.

[okaawhatever]

34. So you're saying you don't think that 5 people didn't board, but rather they got the bags mixed up?

It did say the baggage was pulled off the plane, and since this was the original leg of the flight I thought that meant they had actually checked in at the airport with luggage and then didn't board. I don't think I understand what you're saying.

[LongTomH]

41. Oooops! Sorry, I'm kind of tired today.

I missed that the bags were pulled!

[LongTomH]

43. Hold the phone.....maybe the bags were mixed up and the wrong bags were pulled........

.....accidentally on purpose. In another thread, the original poser speculated: " Also there is the luggage snafu, it would not difficult to bribe airport workers in a country like Malaysia to look the other way for a baggage switch, hell it isn't that difficult in this country."

If the bagmatch system had been working as it's supposed to, the correct bags would have been pulled......unless, of course, the bagtags had been switched. The plot thickens!!!!!

Edited to add: My company also developed the original Computer-Assisted Passenger Prescreening System (CAPPS). If a CAPPS system had been in place, it might have tagged the people traveling on stolen passports. It might have also tagged some other people who could be identified as security risks for one reason or another.

[marble falls]

4. I'd say the conjecture is starting to move from the sublime to the ridiculous......

and that when there is an official finding of fact about this event - books, columns, and websites will dispute it for years.

[Agschmid]

5. Hmmm...

More and more questions are being raised, and at some point coincidences seem a bit unlikely.

[groundloop]

7. However, there are many many fake and stolen passports in circulation

In one article I read (sorry, can't find the link) it was pointed out that there are millions of fake and stolen passports in circulation and that it's not surprising to find a handful of those on the same international airline flight. For the next few weeks reporters are going to be jumping at every little tidbit of evidence, this information could well point to something but it could just as easily be nothing.

[Helen Borg]

10. Over 30M stolen passports

out there...

[DCBob]

11. “It is fairly unusual to have more than one person flying on a flight with a stolen passport”

from the article.

[boston bean]

8. I am wondering if they were used as fakes prior.

If they were not, that would lead me to believe, even more so than now, that it is terror related.

But would the gov'ts want that info out. What a sham security is if they were used more than once.

[Contrary1]

15. If this statement is true, it's very possible the passports could have been used more then once:

"...Malaysian authorities have been in contact with counterterrorism organizations about possible passport issues, acting Transportation Minister Hishammuddin Hussein said Sunday.

He didn't specify how many potential passport issues there were, saying authorities are looking at the whole passenger manifest.

Additionally, no inquiry was made by Malaysia Airlines to determine if any passengers on the flight were traveling on stolen passports, he said. Many airlines do not check the database..."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/09/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[TorchTheWitch]

21. I think it shows they weren't terror related

Last edited Sun Mar 9, 2014, 12:51 PM - Edit history (1)

The tickets of the two people with stolen passports continue on to places in Europe following the landing of the plane in China, and no terror organization has claimed responsibility. I think they were just basic crooks traveling together using stolen passports which happens all the time. The passports were reported stolen at different times and likely sold on the black market and eventually purchased by these two people through that same underground.

I doubt they were used prior to this trip as that's double the risk, and fake passports depending on where one gets one can be dirt cheap. Seeing as IIRC these two men started their trip from Thailand and both passports had been reported as stolen in Thailand it's fairly obvious where the passports came from... Thailand is a hotbed of pretty much anything on the black market and cheap.

[IDemo]

24. Did you mean Thailand?

The passports were both stolen there.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/malaysia-airlines-passenger-shows-off-passport/story?id=22837959

[TorchTheWitch]

26. Yes, that's what I meant

Even when I was first reading about this in my head I still kept thinking Taiwan. I mix up my left and right all the time, too.

Thanks for the head's up.

[onehandle]

9. Fake passports originating in Asia. Shocker.

Not.

Not ruling out some 'terror' or whatever, but fake passports are a multi-million dollar operation in China alone. Printing presses dedicated to it.

[Tikki]

14. The Australian movie.."Wish You Were Here" deals with just this kind of graft* in SE Asia.

Tikki
*pretty much over~looked by authorities.

[Sunlei]

13. I'm suprised stolen passports aren't noticed when you show your passport. What good are passports?

They even kept the passport names the same, so it was probably the same number. Anyone can say their passport was stolen and get a new one issued.

That is exactly what George Zimmerman did. He turned over the 'stolen passport' to the court. Then he lied to the Judge about his second passport and was probably planning on using the passport to leave the country.

I bet those 2 passports weren't 'terrorists, just probably the thousands of people who know a 'stolen' passport is still valid to use.

Great security system if they can't even have computers at passport gate- FLAG stolen passport numbers/names.

[Contrary1]

16. They do have a means to check...

This time, and apparantly others, they weren't. Check out the link at reply #15.

[Sunlei]

20. if it was hijack or terrorists, they have revealed a major loophole use for stolen passports.

Even if those 2 persons didn't have anything to do with the crash that loophole needs to be closed.

[ellenfl]

31. maybe they should start making us keep our passports in our shoes. eom

[lumberjack_jeff]

19. If it was terrorists, then why is no one claiming responsibility?

that's the whole point of terrorism.

The theory upthread that this might have been a hijacking gone bad seems plausible.

[Igel]

23. Hijacking is a form of terrorism.

But part of the official determination of "terrorism" is that it be done by a group for a defined purpose.

The shooting at the El Al ticket counter quite a while back wasn't terrorism, even though it was anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli because it was done by a "lone gunman." That's enough to keep it from being terrorism for a lot of people, and the reason for the assertion that all kinds of things are done by lone wolves. (It's not a symmetric kind of thing--if a lone opponent does something, it's "terrorism" because then we get to use a big nasty word to vilify him and others that may think like him. Strict application of the definition for some; broad, emotive application for others.)

If there is a group behind it, it may be that the group is embarrassed that things went wrong. Perhaps the plane *wasn't* the target, but they wanted to send their agents elsewhere--and something let the crew or passengers know there were possible terrorists on board and the situation went wobbly. Or perhaps the group figures if nobody knows who did it, for as long as nobody knows who did it the event will acquire more and more attention and people will become more and more paranoid.

[woolldog]

27. Al Qeda never claims responsibility for terrorist attacks.

Their m.o. is not to claim them.

[SoapBox]

22. My gut thinks...

One of these.

Catastrophic fuselage failure...a portion blown out/explosive decompression or total computer failure.

or

Brought down by explosive device.

or

Sabatoge within the cockpit (although both pilots had a lot of hours...but people can still "snap&quot ...I'll go with this being the most unlikely, for now. I also assume that the airline SHOULD have adopted all post 911 cockpit security enhancements and procedures, to prevent entry...assuming.

I do to this day, remain amazed that these long haul aircraft are not built with either a "Help! I've fallen and can't get up" one step emergency broadcast device that can be activated from the left and right seats (two activation buttons/switches one on each side) during the most stressful workload OR in the event of explosion/power fail, a much stronger black box transmitter.

[uppityperson]

33. Stolen passports used on Malaysia flight are common

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/03/09/stolen-passports-malaysia-flight/6230767/

The world is awash in stolen passports such as those that two passengers used to board the Malaysia Airlines flight that disappeared Saturday, but only a few countries closely monitor their use. More than 40 million travel documents, mostly passports, have been reported stolen or lost, according to a database begun in 2002 — following the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the United States — by the France-based international law enforcement organization Interpol.

"Only a handful of countries worldwide are taking care to make sure that persons possessing stolen passports are not boarding international flights," Interpol Secretary General Ronald Noble said Sunday. His organization confirmed that at least two stolen passports were used to board missing flight MH370, which lost contact with air traffic control shortly after leaving Malaysia's capital, Kuala Lumpur, en route to Beijing.

Interpol said no country has made any checks on those passports since they were reported stolen in Thailand — an Austrian one in 2012 and an Italian one in 2013 — adding it's unable to say how many other times they might have been used.

"It is too soon to speculate about any connection between these stolen passports and the missing plane," Noble said. Yet he said their use is a "great concern" and should prompt countries and airlines to check Interpol's data before allowing passengers to board.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. Why would Al Qaeda target the airline of a country that is 60% Muslim?

That's a strike against the Al Qaeda argument--unless they see the Malays as being "too liberal" in their practice of Islam.

It could be an anti-Chinese action, IF it's terrorism. Some of the Uighurs, a Turkic people, look very European.

[AnalystInParadise]

37. Al Qaeda is far more

than an Arab terror group these days. They have North Africa Chapters, Europeans cells, Uighur chapters (with half the flight being Chinese and Uighurs looking very European, this seems likely) and so on..........

[JI7]

38. i think most of their attacks happen in mostly muslim countries

[AnalystInParadise]

39. The Uighurs

were responsible for the last terror attack in China. And Uighurs can pass for Italians and southern Austrians with ease. I have no proof of this, just speculation. The plane being mostly Chinese in passengers and originating in a Muslim country does make it a possibility.

[JI7]

40. possible, malaysia has a significant chinese population who are mostly Buddhists

so targeting a plane with mostly chinese would mostly be attacking those who are not muslims also.

my only issue is that i don't think they have been involved in these type of attacks. haven't they mostly been in china.

i do wonder if they hoped to take control of the plane and crash it into china some place . similar to 9/11 attacks.

but passengers and crew may have tried to stop them and they ended up just crashing it right away.

[AnalystInParadise]

42. Uighurs have been deported from Malaysia

with fake passports.

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/03/09/Missing-MAS-flight-Uighur-link/

[quadrature]

36. is TEAM-AIRBUS still saying it was a mechanical failure?

hard to believe plane broke up at high altitude
without leaving a big trail of junk in the water.