Latvia to Sack Minister Over Waffen SS March

[dipsydoodle]

Source: ABC News / AP

Latvia's environment minister will be fired for rejecting government orders not to participate in annual commemorations of Latvian soldiers who fought in Nazi units during World War II, a government spokesman said Friday.

Einars Cilinskis, of the right-wing National Alliance, declared Friday that he would attend the events Sunday in Riga, ignoring warnings from Prime Minister Laimdota Straujuma.

The prime minister's spokesman, Andis Blinds, told The Associated Press that Straujuma had no choice but to dismiss Cilinskis, the minister of environmental protection and regional development, and would formally do so Friday evening.

Straujuma had called on Cabinet ministers to stay away from the March 16 events, which are expected to prompt counter-protests from members of Latvia's Russian-speaking minority. The situation is particularly sensitive this year due to the crisis in Ukraine.

Read more: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/latvia-sack-minister-waffen-ss-march-22908869

[shenmue]

1. Good

Good riddance.

[bemildred]

2. +1. nt

[leftynyc]

3. Anyone know if this is an elected position

or an appointed one?

[Diclotican]

4. dipsydoodle

dipsydoodle

It is sad, that the seed the nazis was given Latvia in 1941-44 have grown up to this evil things - that they celebrate the fact that latvians was fighting in Waffen SS in the war... In other parts of Europe -it is seen as a shame to even have a grandfather who did the unthinkable - going in uniform for the germans...

But then again - The baltic states have a brutal history when it came to both WW2 and the aftermath of that war - when the russians was doing it best to quell all national ideas in all 3 baltic states - it goes centuries back in time really - but specially in the inter war period, where the baltic states was somewhat independent - and at the beginning of the war, when Nazi-Germany and Stalin Soviet managed to carve up areas where "they" had the control - the baltic states ended up in the hand of Stalin - a horse trade with Hitler over Poland sorted that out nicely - for Stalin that is - and then suddenly all tree baltic states was under the control of the Soviet Union... Who dealt with the protest rather cruelsome... After Hitler invaded Poland, and then Soviet in 1941 - the baltic states was again "liberated" now under control of the germans who managed to get many in all tree baltic states to do gruesome and brutally attack on minorities - for the most part jews, who was murdered by the ten of thousands over a few weeks - and it was not easy to be a russian also in the baltic states in the war - as they was seen as part of the Soviet partisans - and often killed for no reason at all.....

After the war - Stalin and the Soviet Union again was in control of the baltic states it was clear that it would not go down nicely as it did last time around - many who was staying behind the lines in the baltic states - who had been part of SS, or who was supportive of the SS in the days when Germany was in control know they had few options - other than to fight - and fight some more.. Thanks to the fact that the german forces had to flee so fast, a lot of weapon was ready to be used - and was used to fight the communist, (the russians) for all it was worth - all the way up to 1949-1950 when the last cells of resistance was quelled by NKVD and the red army.... But even then - as many had slipped away into the civilian population it was a war of words - and the will to get Independence from the russians was strong in the baltic states - who used language and the culture in the tree baltic states to make sure they was not made into just another part of the Soviet union.... After Stalin was dead - it was a softening up of the repressive nature - and over the next 40 or so year - the baltic states prospered - and compared to other parts of the Soviet it was rather rich and the people eat better and had better clothing than in many other parts of the Soviet... Mostly because it was a lot of trade between the baltic states and other nations in the baltic seas - Sweden and Finland was old trade partners for the baltic states, going back to the time when the swedish had something to say in the baltic sea...

And then it was in the breakup of the Soviet Union, where they managed to get their independence after a while - not that the russians was not trying it best to keep them there - but at least they got their independence - and liberating them self from the russians once and for all - and after a while, when the celebration was over, and the reality of independence was more known - the breakup of the USSR had profound effect on all the different union members - as they had been part of a system where the members kind of doing their part - and now had to do everything on their own... And then we had the good old enemy, the russians who lived in many of the baltic states, have been doing it for centuries - and suddenly they was all foreigners - who was an minority - often shut off from the public services - banned for using their language in school and in public offices and so one .... In some of the Baltic States - the russians was even close to be the majority in the nation, something that really made their life miserable - as the population kind of resented that fact - many had to emigrate to Russia to save them self from a worse fate - the hate many gave the russians who might have lived there for decades - in many cases even centuries was hard - and the emigration was rather hard specially in the 1990s back to Russia - who they might not know a single soul to Begin with..

Today - all of the baltic states have a rather sad idea about World War two was all about - many have a rather unpleasant view of what SS was - and what Baltic SS soldiers really did under the war - horrible crimes against fellow citizens - not to say to minorities and to russians in general... But for many it have been seen as when the nation was fighting back the evilness of Stalin - and even as the Hitler regime was bad -it was seen as a better choice than Stalin....

But then again, in many different republics of the former Soviet Union, who had direct contact with Germany in WW2, you can see the same pattern going on and on and on... Specially when it came to SS and its way of "cleansing" the world of enemies - anti-Semite's is of a old pattern in this part of Europe - and many have indeed a horrible idea about how the treatment of the jews, was a good thing in reality for the counry.....

Diclotican

[amandabeech]

9. Thank you, Diclotican, for your excellent historical summary.

I spent a week in Lithuania in almost 20 years ago, and it was clear just how much the ethnic Lithuanians hated, and I mean hated, the Russians still around. I'm not surprised that most of them left. The locals really didn't want to talk about the Nazis who had controlled the area nor the Jews that the Nazis and collaborators killed.

What the Lithuanians did want to talk about was a European future and whether, if they joined NATO, the US would protect them if they were attacked by the Russians. At the time, Russia was waging a hot war against Chechnian separatists. I told them that they were European, seen as part of the West, and had a lobby of Lithuanian Americans, one of whom was my friend and traveling companion, and that the US and NATO would help them. I don't think that my words carried much weight, though.

It's hard for us here in the US and here on DU that in eastern Europe, Russia has been hated for centuries and that Stalin and Communism had been hated for as long as they existed. Many welcomed the Nazis because they looked better than Stalin at least first if you weren't Jewish. And for those who can put aside the tragedy of the Jews (which is horrible in and of itself), celebrating Nazi liberation from Stalin might seem okay.

Here in the US, there is an occasional Nazi rally. I saw one in Chicago from an office building. There were 35 Nazis, 50 cops and about 5,000 protesters. The Nazis spoke for about 10 minutes before the cops told them that the cops could no longer guarantee their safety. That was the signal for the Nazis and they just flew out of there. The Nazis were so reviled and looked so ridiculous that there is no chance here that the Nazi ideology will catch on.

In areas that were controlled Germany in WWII, it must be very different. Latvia allows them free speech rights, as would I. They do not seem to be about to take control at this point but I can certainly understand people would feel very queasy about them and the past that they bring up. But I understand how the Latvians now see them as a reason for the Russian army, or masked "local militia," to once again march into their country, and thus want to tamp down on the Nazis at this point.

[Diclotican]

10. amandabeech

amandabeech

Your welcome - history is one of my hobbies - even though I was on "thin Ice" here as I was not sure I got everything right - I guess I was rather spot on for most of the time...

Most of Baltikum have a hate/love relationship with the russians - at one hand they are their nabours - and they need to trade with them - and to a degree interact with them - but on the other hand they do have a feverish hatred for russians - and if it was up to them, they would get rid of russians all toghter inside their own borders... But of course in our times ethnic cleansing is somewhat frowned up on - and it could end up cost the baltic states more than it was worth in the end - so instead they do they best, and have for more than 20 year discriminated against russians and in practice made them into second class citizens in their own country - a country who not long ago was part of the Soviet Union...

For the baltic states - coming into EU and into NATO was some of a catch - I'm not sure it was a catch for NATO or for EU, the same way - as it have been a expensive thing to integrate the baltic states into EU.. And it was also rather problematic to get the baltic states into NATO - as the russians was rather unpleasant about the possibility of having tree NATO states right at their own border.. At least 3 states that was once part of Russia - and Soviet Union.... Norway have been a founding nation of NATO from the beginning, and have a border with Russia too - but Norway have never been part of Russia - and for the most part we have had a working relationship with the russians - even if it was rather cold environment for any relationship between Norway and the Soviet Union...
But I think you had it right when you said that they might not give your words to much weight at least then 20 year ago... But today as member of the NATO alliance I guess they are on safer ground than 20 year ago - at least as the russians are not making to much trouble with the baltic states treatment of the russians who still are stuck in balticum... Many emigrated into Russia in the 1990s as the possibility of living in the baltic states deteriorated into the impossible - new strict language rules - and a knowledge of baltic states history - and in general unpleasant environment for russians was enough for many who had family back in Russia - or had resources to make a living back in Russia to just leave the baltic states - to make it better other places...

Many aspect of european history are rather problematic for many americans it seen - mostly because they just can not get their grasp around how problematic it is with european nations being such a pain in the ass sometimes - most european nations, regardless if they are part of EU or not - have a old habit of thinking like a tribe - one nation on another nation - and not always in the same direction... Even in the nordic states - in scandinavia - it is never easy to work together to closely - specially if "special interest" are at case - then nationalism - and tribal straits is dipping their big foot into the wade and made it almost impossible to do things together - even if we are good friends on most other cases - and are not stooping our Holiday plans or traveling plans to our nabour over it.. For the most part, it is a political play on a level most people just do not care about... But at least, we are not going to war over it anymore - for the most part we sort it out in rather brutal jokes about our nabours....

But it is not the case in the baltic states - where they have a whole different attitude - and a lot more to revenge than in our neck of the world - most of the ethnic baltic population - hate the russians - who have been seen as a worse enemy than even the nazis of old - most of them have deep roots either to germany - or to Sweden who ruled most of them and the shore lines of Baltikum until early 1700s - Sweden was a "super-power" of sorts in the baltic sea for most of the 16th century - and was challenged by Peter 1 The great - who from late 1600s to mid 1700s conquered most of the area - (successive emperors and a few empresses).. And Peter 1 The great was also able to build a City - who he named officially after St Peter - but in reality it was himself he named the city after - right under the nose of Swedish armies who was still very active in the area when Peter deiced where he wanted to build the City - Named St Petersburg - who from early 1700s, until 1918 was the empires capital - and biggest trade City too.. And by the way - the Russian Navy who was build more or less from scratch in the late 1600, early 1700th was in fact build up by an Norwegian called Cornelius Cruys - who was born in Stavanger in then Denmark-Norway - and who until his de died in the late 1720s - was one of the most important admirals in the russian navy... (He is more or less unknown in Norway - but for some reason he is well known outside of Norway... )

And they also have a old grudge when it came to the jews - who have lived there for centuries - sometimes under the protection of the russian empire - other times outright in danger for being killed off and murdered - but it was in the Eastern part of then Polan/Baltic states most of what you can call eastern jew ism was able to survive - and who had some of the most important Rabbi's in the whole of Europe - who got devastated by the war...


In the US you have that 1 amendment - who is rather universal - most european nations have been sensible not to do the same, and as a result we have a whole different idea how free freedom of speech really is - specially when it comes to hate speech - in many country's, as in Germany (naturally as an result of nazism in Germany in the 1920-1930 and 1940s) and in France (for similar reasons) to express nazi ideas is the same as going to a court and risk hefty fines - and a prison time if found guilty if hate...

In most of Europe at least until the economical meltdown of 2008 - you could experience the same - maybe 30-40 or maybe 50 neo-nazism - the double of police officers - and tripe or more demonstrations against the neo-nazi groups - for the most part the idea of nazism have been not been to welcome by people - mostly because most of them, have had either direct experience - or have familiy members who got hurt by them - or killed by them in WW2... But I'm not so sure anymore - if nazism will ever catch on - specially after the new form of hatred against minorities all over Europe - and neo-nazi parties - or organizations who suddenly grow up to rather big groups after the economical meltdown and personal distress for millions of pepole... It is a LOT of hatred out there - for everyone who are not part of the "clan"..... They might be better to cover their hatred today then they was back in the days - but they still hate...

Diclotican

[freshwest]

11. Diclotian: Yes, 'Americans cannot grasp how problematic it is with European nations being such...'

I paraphased your words and hope the shortened version is translatable. You are right, we here in the USA don't really understand why Europe and its many neighbors 'can't just get along.'.

We have such a short history, and it most of our vision of ourselves is a manufactured and theoretical idea.

A lot of us don't see our 'land' as sacred, it's a commodity, if one doesn't like something, just move. If it's not working, do something else. That was clearly not an option in Europe.

We don't have the historical tapestry of most Europeans, and the almost genetic link, to the idea of homelands as many in Europe do.

Your ideas of what it means to be a citizen is also different from ours. We are just born here and that is all there is about it, it can't be taken away or it's seen as immoral. The Eastern Hemisphere doesn't make automatic citizens out of everyone born there, 'just because' and there are levels of rights, not inalienable rights.

When we read articles from the UK of finding the exaact same DNA markers in the current residents as in bodies examined 10,000 years ago, meaning their direct ancestors were there, it seems weird and mysterious. We've only been here 400 years or so.

It must touch people deeply to feel they are part of a place, a language, etc. and not see it as a temporal, generic event. What passions that causes to rise up, we only have a short memory of here.

And to consider that in the area of Europe, many millions of people in what to us, is close proximity, have lived, died, fought and married into each other is boggling. Our American melting pot seems to be a small sauce pan when one sees the history there.

Dipsydoodle once posted a video of the changing borders in Europe with a classical music score. Wish I had time to post it, it was over centuries. The thought of all the killing that went on as those lines on the map were changed... I found it inspiring and horrible.

I met people online who live in Europe, the Balkans, UK, Scandinavia and Russia. Each unique, many stories to tell. We told each other about our lives, talked about current events and exchanged a lot as we were corresponding many years. We met at on youtube from having shared interests not related to nationalities.

But on many of those pages, I read the arguing that went on, from people in many of the nations of Europe and about the Russians, etc. The abuse was vile and the hatred they had for each other seemed quite irrational.

But in my life in the USA, I've met and got to know Jews who still bore the tattoos from the camps, Armenians who told me stories of the treatment they recieved, and many other things that show that the pain still runs deep. One part of my extended family were Jews from eastern Europe and lost all but three members of their family to the Nazis. Their hundreds of years of living in Europe, their history and all that most take for granted, were wiped out in a few years.

That we are seeing Nazis once again treated as a viable group by some, is very aggravating and seems stupid. They have grabbed onto more basic fears and needs that could be dealt with in any ideology, but they prefer the might or strength that they see in such.

I've got to go, but as always I really appreciate your history lessons and analysis, and also found amanda's comments a very good read. I'm going to take some time to try to grasp the depth of information that you presented here. Thanks.

[Diclotican]

12. freshwest

freshwest

I understand what you was pointing out And it is maybe correct to say - that many americans do have trouble understanding some of the reasons Europe are not something resemble the US, even if we might have some of the same culture, and share a lot of other things in common... For many it seens like we just do not want to get along - even after centuries of friendship - or at least co operation between the different countries - the last 80 year, specially after WW2 have been some of the most peacefully in Europe since the middle ages in Europe.. We might have to go back to pre-800 to look at the continent and se the same peacefully way of existence as we have in Europe today... And by the early 800, the vikings was in full swung - raiding and pillaging whole city's who was not at all expecting THAT to happend... The late 700, early 800 had been a time of rather peacefully interaction between European tribal leaders - who build up some of the instruments of what become the first statehood - nations of Europe - What become England, Scotland Wales, Ireland and to a large degree France was made up of the rubble of the big people movement who had turned the continent upside down a few centuries before... And of course the viking also made some impact about the movement and nationhood of Europe - in fact some say that the vikings was rather instrumental in making sure the kingship of France and England to be that powerfully as it was in the middle ages - was because of the impact the vikings had on the different cultures - many understood it was a smart thing to have a central group of leaders to safeguard life and homes - instead of tribal leaders who was not able to defend anyone...


For many the idea of "residence" and national hood is two different thing - US have a great idea about national hood - as long as you is either born in the US - or have been naturalized yourself to your new country - and have doing the paperwork about US history - and the pledge of alliance - you are seen as an american citizen and have the same rights - and duties as them who are born in the US of american parents - often if not in most cases, it is not the same in most of Europe - even if you on paper are a part of the nation - you might not be that in reality - tribal straits often Trump public papers of nationality.. It is a sad fact in Europe - and often something americans seldom really get a grasp on.... Germany have one of the strictest laws when it came to been a citizen of Germany in all of Europe - you have to live there many years - been more or less fluent in german - and have understood most of the history and national ideas - and even so, you might not be eligible to get a german passport at all... Something that is somewhat specially even for an european nation...

Many in Europe have also sometimes a long line of ancestors in an area - myself included - where I live - in a county outside Oslo (our capital) called Asker - my family have been resident for more than 660 years - as they emigrated to a farm in Asker by the mid 1300 - (1350) and I would say that is deep roots in one place - of course not many can claim that in Asker today - ancestry going back more than 600 year - but my uncle on my mothers side have discovered that we have had a continuing place in this county for that long a time.... And even then - I was told once I was 13-14 year to get the hell back where I am from - that could be interesting as I might have deeper roots here than most others have.. I can go to the graveyard - and look at some of my ancestors - from the 1500s - or older... Not everyone is able to do that I guess

DNA is an amazing tool - when used wisely - it is interesting to know that even over 10.000 years - you can get evidence of people been living there - and trifle for so long - and that you have a linage going back to the end of the last Ice age... That is something mot many americans can claim - to have roots going back that long - and possible also some of the reasons some europeans have an attitude against mingling to much with "the others" - it all is going back to the tribal world where you had to defend your own - and to fend off intruders into your own little part of the world..

Europe have a long and bloody history when it came to warfare - but even so - it was not until the late 1700s War was something that was experienced over a large distance - specially before the large armies of the french revolution - and the napoleon wars - for the most part, it was only the places hit directly by war who was devastated most - in areas who had no direct connection to the place of war - you could experience a rather peacefully world - where thing was going on as they ever had been doing it... Of course we also had the few big wars - like the 100 year war between France and England - who basically was about who was the most powerfully man, and rightfully hair to the two thrones... As Wilhelm the Bastard - had been a vassal of the french king - but put himself up as King in his own right in England - who really messed up things over the next couple of centuries - and who ended in a century of warfare between the two states... And then we have the 30 year war - who devastated most of Central Europe - and who ended in a peace in 1648 - where most of what become later Germany was a wasteland - millions was killed - other millions harmed for life - houses, homes - city's destroyed and social insecurity and plundering soldiers who had nothing else to do - other than plundering for a living...

I know the video - it is an interesting insight into how Europe was and have been over the last 1800-2000 year - where you can clearly se the empires - from the roman empire - the byzantine - the ottoman empire - and all of the rest of small and big country's who often had many other nationals inside its own borders - where the borders changed over the next 1000 years - to what it is today - many smaller and some bigger nations what on one hand want peace and contact with all the other nations - but who clearly want to keep clear their own borders, and protect their own genuine ideas about how to govern a country - regardless of what else are on table... I suspect EU as an federation of nations (who might be a dream for some) is a long way ahead - mostly because before Europe can be a federation of nations - and an competition to lets say US - we need to get our own tribal fears under control..


Most Europeans - but specially some minorities -like the jews, who had been part of Europe for centuries - specially in the eastern part of europe - in country's like Poland, where they in fact was given a place of refuge after the spanish reconquest of the 1490s - and millions of jews emigrated to after Spain shot its door behind them - and they had to find another place to live - and as an result Poland was one of the country's in Europe who had many jews - many who managed to give europe a lot of its classical culture - and the sciences who gave many of them a tolerated place in society - but many if not most was poor - and had no property as just christians was allowed to have land and own pro pertly at least until the Napoleon wars - who changed it forever - but the old anti-sometime was there all along - before WW1 it was a lot of pogroms against jews in eastern part of what is today Poland/Ukraine - and many had to emigrate to the west - fleeing from pogroms and the danger of being killed by their own nabours... After WW1 most of the new national states in East, continued in a way to discriminate against specially the jews - given them less rights - specially to higher education and a place at the university - anti-sometime are not a new trate in Poland - but WW2 changed all that - to the worse for not just the jews in Poland - but for jews in most of Europe... 6 year later - 6 million killed jews - millions others murdered by SS and a helping hand from local authorities - most of what was left of european jews - had to rebuild their own liefs - or emigrate to other places - many emigrated to the US, as it was seen as a nice, safe place compared to the ruins of Europe - or to the new state of Israel... (But then again, that's another story again..)
And many should be the sole survivor of a whole family. and also have tattoos telling them that they was one of the ones who was destined to be murdered - but who managed to survive somehow...

Neo-nazism - in all its different shape and color is an danger to Europe - it is a poison who is dangerous and we would have to try to do our best to "immunize" the ones who might be in danger of being poisoned by it...

And it is somewhat of an ironic twist to history - some of the worst extremist groups out there - exist in the former soviet union - or in some of the eastern part of europe - who was horrible devastated by the original Nazisms back in the 1930s and 1940s..

I try to do my best - I might not be the best "educator" out there - it is not easy to write on a different language than your native either I might say - some of the meanings got lost in the translation I'm afraid... But hopefully my "lessons" and "analysis" do have something for it in the end...

Diclotican

[amandabeech]

13. What a post, Diclotican!

I read it several times. There's a lot of information, but I'll just make a few comments.

Not everyone here in the US is disinterested in history. I myself majored in history at university, but I wish that I would have taken more world history and less American history. What I really wish is that I could have stayed in university for 3 more years! There were so many history (and other) courses that looked so interesting!

Believe it or not, I do know that Sweden was a major power and that she was defeated in the 1700s by a coalition of neighboring countries who felt threatened. But maybe it is because 1/4 of my ancestry is Swedish. Many Americans from the upper Midwest have some Swedish or other Scandinavian ancestry. The trip in which I went to Lithuania also included Sweden. My friend is also part Swedish, and she stayed with her relatives while I explored the area where my Swedish ancestors lived. One of the nicest people I met on my trip, though, was Norwegian. I am currently involved in the care of my elderly Mom, so I can't really travel until she departs this sphere of existence because I have no brothers or sisters to help.

You talk about European tribalism. There's actually a little here, too, but not nearly what you have in Europe, I think. Perhaps you've noticed repeated threads bashing people from the southern US? I lived in the south for a year, and I can tell you that southerners often don't like people from other parts of the country. They're polite, but it is hard to get to know them. What you don't see here is the often virulent dislike of people from the northeast by just about everyone else. New York is particularly hated. Then, of course, is the increasing distance between conservatives and liberals. There is some anecdotal evidence that people are migrating to areas where they feel comfortable socially and politically, which may result in increased tribalism. I have a few conservative friends that I've known since I was 5 or so. They tell me that they can talk to me because they know that I won't go crazy if they say something that I might disagree with, but they are afraid even to make small talk with people that they don't know. And this is a conservative rural area. I guess my point is that we may be developing tribalism here, but that we are well behind Europe in that regard.

Our First Amendment really is unique. When I first moved to DC, I lived in a house in which the rooms were leased out individually by the landlord. We had people from all over the world, and none of them could understand our theory that everyone is allowed to say pretty much anything. People from other countries would watch US TV and say that no one should be allowed to say this or that. I would tell them that they were free to switch the channel or to write in to the TV show and complain, but that never satisfied them. They wanted to ban what they thought was offensive. One of the people who was the most vocal was Canadian, which I found surprising. I don't mean to say that other countries should adopt our nearly absolute free speech, but it was surprising for me to hear so many other people complain about it.

Many years ago, I witnessed a Chicago Nazi demonstration, although I didn't know what was going on at the time. I was working in downtown Chicago for the summer, and I had to go in on Sunday to finish some work. There was a large group milling around on the plaza that I could see from my office window. They kept getting louder and louder. There were about 5,000 of them and about 50 police officers. Suddenly, a small caravan of vans and cars pulled up beside the crowd. I couldn't believe how loud the noise was. About 30 guys in Nazi uniforms jumped out and set up a speaker system and a podium. One of them got up and started speaking. The crowd became even louder. I couldn't hear a word of what the Nazis were saying. After about ten minutes of speaking, the Nazis all of a sudden threw their speaker system in one of the vans and sped off. The next day I asked one of the permanent employees what had happened. He said that the police let the Nazis speak for about 10 minutes, then they say to them that the police can no longer guarantee the Nazis' safety. That's the cue for them to leave as fast as they can!

One thing that I think is driving some of the problems we see is the lack of decent, secure jobs here in the US. The situation really is dire. When I return to Michigan to visit my Mom, it is just dismal. So many people are just barely hanging on. They're desperate. Those same conditions, I think, prevailed in Germany prior to the Nazi takeover. I certainly hope that those in charge here and in Europe will wake up and realize that the jobs situation will lead to uncontrollable social problems if things don't change. Whether change comes from the left or from the right, it must come or we'll be in big trouble.

[Diclotican]

14. amandabeech

amandabeech

Thank you for your kind words - it took me a long time to write it down - and to get the wording more or less correct, and I also had a few other things to do at the time - so I had to write some - wait for a hour or two - and do the rest - not a easy task if you want to have the right wording for it... I use the dictionary a lot when my words fall me
I have never majored in anything at least not in history - but it have been one of my favorite subjects all the back to when I was learning to read/write back Alamos 30 year ago... For some reason some of it stuck also - and as I have aged - i have kind of understood it better as I was reading - and maybe also wondering about it, on my own...

I wish I could got to university and study some subjects I might will find interesting - sadly my health kind of flunked on me - and I was not able to attend it - but then again, I have had the time to read a lot - and to understand some of it - one small subject at the time I guess...

Not everyone outside of Scandinavia do know Sweden to have been a larger, and powerfully nation in world affairs - in fact it was one of the biggest powers in the northern Europe - with an Navy and Army who was more powerfully than both the french and the english combined - and had great kings who also was great war lords - who also had the understanding about safeguard their conquest - by not growing to big - and to make sure the subjects was able to flourish even under the new management.... But at the late 1600s - Sweden got a few kings who had no interest in safeguard what was won - but who wanted to have wars more or less for the wars sake... From Karl XI and forward - the Swedish Empire was at it largest - but as history shows - the many wars was not making Sweden any good - in fact by the end of Karl XII reign - who by the way was killed outside the fortress of Haldensten in Norway most of what was the real power of Sweden - its army was a Shadow of itself - mainly because the two kings more or less singlehandedly had made it possible for ten of thousands of young men - to be killed in hopeless wars against enemies - both Karl XI and XII was seen as powerfully - but also brutal kings who for the most wanted to expand the empire Sweden had - way ahead of its natural boundaries and resources could be able to muster.... And the collapse of Sweden as a mighty empire was not as sudden as we might believe - it happened over the next century - parts and bits of the old empire was lost - to other more mighty and powerfully enemies - and by the early 1800s Sweden even lost Finland to Russia - Finland who since time immortal had been an integrate part of Sweden - was lost to Russia mostly because of generals who was not able to do their job and kings who was rather stupid.... And some of the kings still believed Sweden to be a powerhouse in the north of Europe - even after the power was cut to pieces and the country dirt poor, and the population starving because of the lack of food... By 1809, Sweden was no longer a powerfully nation - it was in act a rather poor country, like the rest of scandinavia.... And even as Sweden was lucky enough to be on the "right side" of the Napoleon Wars - and won Norway as a price, as Denmark had been on the wrong side of the Napoleon wars - specially after the British attack at Copenhagen, where the Navy, who had been the pride of our two countries was either stolen, or destroyed to the keel... But not before Norway managed to get together our Constitution, who was finish at may 17th - this year it is in fact 200 year since our constitution was made into law - and I guess the celebration would be as good as it ever have been - maybe even better as it is 200 year since it was finished... And by the way - I guess we somehow managed to get the better part of the stick - even with 95 year of dependence from Sweden between 1814 and 1905...

Many americans have ancestry to Scandinavia - specially in the northern parts of US, many can trace ancestry either to Denmark, Sweden or Norway - as many 100 of thousands emigrated to US over 150 year - from the early beginning of 1830s to at least after WW1 - and even today - some emigrate to the US from our part of the world - and some even have been doing the opposite - emigrated back to the country their ancestors had to leave - for a better future in a foreign nation...

Sweden is a great nation - I have been there many, many times - maybe more than I can count over the year - I was there even today - to shop some, and well - to just have a trip with some friends.. Was back home at 8 in the evening - after been "on the road" since 6 in the morning so I guess I'm off to bed soon - and I guess I would sleep rather well tonight...

I hope your mother will be cared for, with your help of course - it is often a challenge to do it, the right way - even if it is your parent. Hopefully your mother will have a good time with her child - and depart to something better when it's time came along..

I have kind of figured out - it exist some "tribalism" in the US also - specially some who is giving the south of US a hard time, some of it, is maybe deserved - some of it, is not deserved at all... But then again, the US is a BIG nation - with a lot more difference in each state than say most european nations have experienced since the beginning of the "dark ages"..
It is sad when people are not able, out of fear to state their opinion about things to others - out of fear of being attacked in the worst of ways - it must be a sad thing to experience all day in and all day out... It it not exactly what will make a country more civic when ones is afraid of stating where they stand.... Even if some is in disagreement with you about it...
When it come to "tribalism" I suspect the US have a long way to go - before they resemble anything like Europe - hopefully you will never reach that stage - as it would tear the union appart... Not just North vs South - but every corner of the map - at the same time... It will be messy...

Your 1 amendment is really unique - it was unique back in 1776 - and still are wherry unique in part, because you can state whatever wild thing you want to say - and not getting punished for it - even if you treated the head of State you might just get a warning against doing it - but no one will put you in a prison for just stating it... At one side, it have given US a gift that no one else in the world have in the same degree - but it have also given the US, a great responsibility US as a country in many cases also fail miserably to defend - sceptically in times of danger, real or perceived dangerous sometimes you loss the ability to do it the proper way.. You collectively kind of loss your head - and let the worst abilities grow instead of asking why this happened - and who want to benefit from it in the end...

In other parts of the world - freedom of writing and speech is something that have grown up steadily over time - influenced by the US, but also kept under some control - as you can not say anything you want - about everything with out the possibility for the authorities to make sure you do not repeat it again... Of course, it is far different today, than it was 20 or 30 year ago - but it is still some what of a challenge to keep the right of people to read what they want - and get the knowledge they want - and to make sure the State do not is harmed by what people know... Or what they are saying to others.. Some do a good balance between the two rights - others are not that lucky I'm afraid... And in many "young" democracies - it looks like old habits - like curbing speech is on the rise again - even in the more stable, older democracies in Europe do have a tendency to make it less easy to express your wives - even if it inside your right to express it.. As long as you do not express it TO loudly that is...


Early in the 1990s it was a resurrection of nazism, or at least far right nationalism in Norway - and it was a lot of in flighting between the far Right - and the far left, where it could end up in a battlefront on the streets of some city's.. Thankfully to the outreach from Police and social services - and an active education from schools - most of that ended, at least from the view of the far right rather miserably - and most of the groups who grow up - was rather dead by the mid 1990s, splintered into small groups - with no influence and no power - or outright just disappeared into the dark where it came from... Nazism and fascism was never really a good idea, when it got challenged by other forces... And I somehow doubt that most of them, would have been given time to even have a speech at the town center in most Norwegian city's by the authorities at all... Freedom of speech do have its limits...


I have understood - from many who is very active on that front - that the possibility of a decent paid job in the US is rather limited - the old idea that you could work your way into prosperity - and to a decent life is so 1970s - or maybe 1960s - today even to or tree jobs are not enough to give anyone a decent pay - and a decent life... And most of the old "powerhouses" in what become "the rust belt" is rather dead - and many city's is now desolated - they who could afford to leave have doing so - all others have been stuck there for more than 30 years - without anyone helping them to new abilities - and possibilities.. It looks, from the outside that your leaders just do not care - or know how to handle it anymore... What the US are in need of, is a new FDR... And a "new deal" where the cards is making way to a new deck of cards - sadly the US do not have any of it for the moment... No fresh deck of cards - and no FDR..


One of the reasons - I hope we will never go back to a time, when people is getting to desperate in Europe - is the experience we "got" in the inter war periods specially in Germany - where millions was out of a job - and was living a miserable life in dirt poor conditions - along came Hitler - who first tried to make a way to power by violence - and got stamped on for that reason.. But who learned - evolved and managed to get the office of Chancellor of Germany - and started to make sure germany could start another was just a few years later... Many who voted for Hitler in 1933 - was afraid - was starving, was desperate for anything that could give them another way of hope - for a better future.. Hitler promised them that - a better future where Germany should be the master of Europe... Instead Germany got smacked hard by the end of that war - and divided for the next 40 year... Even today more than 25 year after the unification of the two german states - it is a difference from what was West Germany - to what was East germany - and it is still more people who is without a job - and poor in the East than in the West.. It will take at least a generation, or maybe two to unify the two parts - even after the official unification have been a fact of life for more than 25 year...

I think, or I hope it Will come a change in how people is treated both in the US, and in Europe - it might be horrible a change - but it will come - sooner or later - the people today is more educated and have aces to more than everyone else have ever had the possibility to even dream about just a generation ago.. It is not more than 18-20 year since Internet got into everyones home - (even if it was a challenge in the beginning) But today internet is a powerfully tool, to inform, and to get information about how things works - even if it is a challenge to learn it first... I for one have learned a lot just by being here on DU..


Diclotican

[geek tragedy]

5. no-brainer of a decision--both morally and also to avoid giving you-know-who

a pretext to try to invade.

[AngryAmish]

6. Can sack minister, no can sack of potato.

Is sad.

[The Magistrate]

7. As They Should, Sir

Commemoration of the Latvian SS is grotesque in itself, and at present is a deliberate provocation.

[840high]

8. Good.