Pro-Russian Rebel Groups Clash in Donetsk

[Tommy_Carcetti]

Source: Wall Street Journal

MOSCOW--Gunmen from the pro-Russia Vostok Battalion have cleared representatives of another pro-Russia separatist group from the regional assembly in Donetsk, the clearest sign yet of infighting in the ranks of rebels who control most of Ukraine's two easternmost regions.

Dozens of armed men from the battalion, a mix of Chechens from Russia and local fighters, entered the building and forced everyone to leave, according to Miroslav Rudenko, one of the leaders of the Donetsk People's Republic, a group that had controlled the building since it was seized by a mob nearly two months ago.

The gunmen forced the people inside to leave, said Mr. Rudenko, who was in the building at the time.

*****

Tensions between the various rebel groups in Donetsk and Luhansk regions has increased in recent weeks, as dozens have been killed amid a Ukrainian military operation to oust them. Gunmen who are part of a formation called the Vostok Battalion have done most of the fighting, while the DPR takes care of political statements and registration for journalists


Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20140529-705079.html

---

A chaotic situation in Donetsk, to say the least.

[Bosonic]

1. It could be on course to end up like the Syrian 'rebels'

Increasingly bitter infighting...

[Tommy_Carcetti]

4. Next thing you think they'll be fighting over the Iron Throne?

The whole situation in Ukraine is a bit like a real life Game of Thrones.

[dipsydoodle]

2. I saw a note earlier that the infighting issue was an attempt to stop looting

Sample comment here


Christopher Miller @ChristopherJM · 12m

This is one reason Vostok Battalion seized DPR bldg. Looters ransack Metro market in #Donetsk http://www.kyivpost.com/content/business/looters-ransack-germanys-metro-hypermarket-in-donetsk-349939.html … pic.twitter.com/7q4ngb4DEy
Embedded image permalink

https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM

[geek tragedy]

3. without orders from Moscow and the threat of Russian tanks rolling

into the rescue, seems cohesion and morale are suffering

[Tommy_Carcetti]

5. A coup of a coup?

https://twitter.com/isaacdwebb/status/472016248654811136

Isaac Webb
‏@isaacdwebb Asked Vostok Battalion soldier at DPR building if Gubarev, Pushilin et al. would stay in power. "No comment. They will. For now. Probably."

[Bosonic]

6. Weirdly, now barricades are being cleared

And there go the barricades of the Donetsk People's Republic

https://twitter.com/courtneymoscow/status/472026708720513025/photo/1

3:48 PM - 29 May 2014

[freshwest]

35. Another article says that is only in preparation for battle. Civilians are fleeing now.

Russian-led rebels dig in for Ukraine attack

Donetsk, Ukraine - Russian-led paramilitaries are fortifying Donetsk’s provincial government building after kicking out separatist administrators, signalling a shift in power as rebels prepare for an expected assault by Ukrainian troops.

The Russian-dominated Vostok Battalion was securing the building on Friday, a day after it removed local separatist fighters and accused them of looting shops while they engaged Ukrainian forces at the city’s international airport earlier this week.

Vostok soldiers set up defences outside of the building, including an anti-aircraft gun, and bulldozed barricades to create a "free-fire zone" to prepare for an expected attack by Ukrainian soldiers.

The preparations are being made as civilians begin to leave the city, with the rail station packed as rumours circulate of an impending Ukrainian attack on separatist positions.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/05/russian-led-rebels-dig-ukraine-attack-20145308225663111.html

Quoting Old Testament, new pro-Russia militia group lines up in Ukraine

(Reuters) - They are tired after more than three days with almost no sleep but their eyes shine with battle fervor as they man the rebels' frontline barricade in Donetsk, the eastern Ukrainian city where dozens were killed in a battle over the airport this week.

"We are Russians, and we will take revenge for everything the Ukrainians have done to us. We will be here until the very end," said a 29-year-old native of the Sea of Azov port city of Mariupol, who only identified himself by the nickname Chrome.

Chrome and his 24 comrades on the barricade are part of a new pro-Moscow unit formed three months ago. Calling itself the "Russian Orthodox Army", it has been engaged in the heaviest fighting against Ukraine's army in the Donetsk region this month.

It is just one of several armed rebel groups fighting in Ukraine's tumultuous east, with blurred command and coordination lines - and varying motivations and allegiances.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/30/us-ukraine-crisis-east-group-idUSKBN0EA0XY20140530

to DipsyDoodle:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5023887

This is a different take, with either them idenitifying themselves as Russian citizens and not Ukrainians although the term Russia seems to be a majort theme and not based on what we consider nation states. If they are Russian citizens that makes it different. That they have Chechens there after Russia going after them years ago, shows there are motivations there that exceed what any of the media has presented.

[Iterate]

7. The new Chechen houseguests seem to be making themselves at home.

Takeover of the Ramada Hotel, the DPR headquarters, the old SBU building, do a little cleanup and explain the new arrangement to the old tenants --because that's what you do when someone steals shit from a airport grocery. I expect they've already met the 'polite men' from Crimea.

Chechen Fighters in Ukraine

There are two narratives that have come out about Chechen involvement in the conflict in Ukraine. I’d like to briefly look at these and discuss their significance.

The first narrative we are hearing is that the Vostok and Zapad Battalions are still active, and are being used again as they were in the 2008 conflict in South Ossetia.

The Vostok (East) Battalion has a long and rather checkered history in the annals of Chechnya. The faction was formed in 1999 out of a previously existing Chechen fighting force that had been loyal to Aslan Maskhadov’s Ichkerian government. The goal was to essentially co-opt former separatist fighters into a group loyal to the Kremlin. Both they and the Zapad (West) Battalion were directly subordinated to the GRU, the intelligence arm of Russia’s Ministry of Defense. The groups operated on the territory of the Chechen Republic.

The move was only partially successful, however. The Vostok Battalion was led by the powerful Yamadaev family. Sulim Yamadaev was the official commander of the battalion. Under the Yamadaevs, the group was turned into a heavily armed gang that operated independently, with little or no oversight from the Russians. Human rights groups accused them of perpetuating kidnappings, murders, and other atrocities in the early 2000s.

much more...http://ninajobe.wordpress.com/2014/05/11/chechen-fighters-in-ukraine/

May 29, 2014
Considerations on the North Caucasus Militants on Donbass

The fact is that Russia raised several so-called National Battalions in the Southern Military District. In particular, these are:

- Special battalion of the 18th Motorized Rifle Brigade stationed in Kalinovskaja (Chechnya). The battalion is staffed by local Chechens, mostly former and amnestied militants which later served in Yamadaev’s “Vostok” (“East”) battalion. The unit is structurally a part of the brigade but in reality is supervised by the GRU;

- Special battalion stationed in Troitskaya (Ingushetia). It is conditionally included in the 19th Motorized Rifle Brigade which is located in Vladikavkaz (North Ossetia). It is staffed by Ingush contractors who have combat experience in counter-terrorist operations. It is also supervised by the GRU;

- National Battalion from the 4th Russian occupation military base located in Georgian region of Tskhinvali (so-called ‘South Ossetia’). It was raised two years ago by South Ossetian separatists and militants which terrorized Georgian villages and have combat experience. Supervised by the GRU.Caucasian Militants in Lugansk Oblast

These three national battalions totals approximately 1,200-1,500 soldiers were reserved for a special occasion. Well, here they are… these guys popped in the Donbass. I am not going to dilate on this any further, I will just note that among these enforcers there must be both Chechens, Ingush and Ossetians. Hopefully, the national security will soon please us with the demonstration of live or better yet, cold “uninvited guests”.

http://burkonews.info/considerations-on-the-north-caucasus-militants-on-donbass/#more-510

[Tommy_Carcetti]

8. I don't know what to make of the supposed Chechen fighters.

But I can only assume that if they are Chechen, they are Chechens who were loyal to Moscow and not an independent separatist state. It wouldn't make sense to be fighting for a side that wants to join Russia if your own side at home wants to break away from it.

From what I read of the first article, that appears to be the case.

[Iterate]

9. It's confirmed not supposed, and they're the pro-Russian Kadyrov clan of fighters

Donetsk PM admits Chechen fighters in Ukraine
AFP Wednesday, May 28, 2014 8:22 PM GMT

The prime minister of the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic in eastern Ukraine Wednesday admitted that fighters from Chechnya were enlisted in the separatist brigades.
http://nr.news-republic.com/Web/ArticleWeb.aspx?regionid=4&articleid=23738027



These are the nastiest fucks on the continent. They flipped in 1999 to fight with the Russians and reaped the benefits. Too many human rights violations to count. Kadyrov denied sending them, but the fighters themselves have claimed to be from that clan. If you want, I have plenty of links for followup, but you won't have any problem getting a stomach full with a 'Kadyrov' search.

One quote I picked up from one EU leader(don't remember who it was right now) who knows Putin and had said that Putin will always keep multiple options open and switch opportunistically between them when it's useful. I've found that helpful to keep in mind.

So after this bunch has done their damage, he can step in as savior/peacekeeper with a Federation force, or allow Ukraine to bleed itself fighting them, or cripple Ukraine for a generation, or delay any eventual EU membership, or use them as a base to spread west and north, or leave them there until a real civil war is started, or even facilitate their removal (through a helpful intercession) which can be traded for something else.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

10. Scary stuff. nt

[MBS]

34. you bet. n/t

[happyslug]

16. Putin is acting like Otto von Bismark....

One of the comments about Otto von Bismark, was he NEVER committed to any one thing, if he could keep two options open. The more options, the better Bismark liked it. Thus Bismark had an alliance with Russia against any one who attacked Russia including Austria, and a treaty with Austria to defend Austria against anyone who attacked Austria and this included Russia. Bismark used these alliances to keep both at peace with each other. Bismark just reminded each of the alliance, and then threaten not to comply unless each did what he wanted, and what Bismark wanted after 1871 was peace.

One of the reasons for WWI, was Kaiser Wilhelm II, after firing Bismark in 1899 dropped the treaty with Russia in favor of the Treaty with Austria, this forced Russia to look for other allies and that ended up being France. Thus when war threatened, German could not force Russia and Austria to the peace table by threatening to support the other if war broke out. Bismark had used his dual alliance to keep Europe in peace during his time as Chancellor, but with the Kaiser refusing to follow what Bismark had been doing, WWI became unavoidable.

Just a comment that Putin's methods can be the method of someone who knows how to handle difficult allies, as Bismark did with Imperial Russia and Imperial Austria. Supporting one's ally to the hilt is not always good, for that is what the Kaiser did in 1914, and we are coming up to the 100th anniversary of the results.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

22. 1. How did these guys get into Ukraine?

2. Why, if these actually are Chechens, isn't this taken as clear evidence of a Russian invasion? Or, OK, an invasion by The Empire's vassals, which amounts to the same thing? I mean, what else can it be?

[Iterate]

26. They drove in, evidently.

There have been several vids posted of one of the larger convoys. Arms shipments from Crimea have been intercepted at ports. Some of it comes stashed in private cars. This convoy was particularly brazen and appears to have been waved through at a small compromised crossing --near Vlasivka or Gukovo.

It's a long border. The road network and border crossings evolved during the Soviet era. It's also been historically porous, barely guarded, and with plenty of cross-border trade and workers living in one place, working in another. To make matters worse, the Russia gives out passports like free carnival tickets and dual citizenship seems to be common.

I guess we'd have to call this invasion by proxy. The worse news is that it's likely to kick off a counter reaction for combatants from elsewhere in former Soviet bloc states.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

27. Am I the only one who thinks the Russians should obviously be telling these folks...

...to get out? They were supposed to cooperate in de-escalating the situation according to that accord they signed onto.
Although, one worldly-wise person I follow on Twitter said, as a "reminder" as he called it to his tweeps, that when you hear that the Russians signed an agreement, the joke in international circles was that all that meant is that they were in the room when it was signed.
No one trusts them to honor any agreements, commercial or political, it seems.

[jamzrockz]

30. It would be nice

if foreign fighters be it with Libya, Syria and now Ukraine butt out and mind their own business. These foreign fighter are more likely to abuse, rape, kill torture the civilian population which they claim to be "liberating"

Foreigners go home.

[polly7]

11. I call them anti-Kiev protesters. They don't accept the brutal coup or their new

elected, austerity-pushing leaders.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

12. So how did the coup happen? nt

[polly7]

13. Ask Nuland and McCain. nt.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

14. Well if you are claiming there was a coup, you should know yourself.

So how did the coup happen?

[Adrahil]

15. Ah, I thought so. Ya got nothin' NT

[polly7]

17. Do a bit of a search right here on DU.

There are articles, pictures, videos and everything!!!

I'm assuming you didn't pay much attention during brutality of it all. How nice for you.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

19. Please proceed, governor.

How did the coup happen?

No need to be coy, if you are so sure of your position.

[polly7]

20. Don't play stupid. There's a thing called 'search'.

I and others posted article after article, including videos and images. I don't deal well with disingenuous bullshit.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

21. It's your conspiracy theory. You have the burden of proving it.

You want to show me there was a coup, you prove it. That's how things work.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

23. Also, since when do "protesters" have anti-aircraft artillery?

Wow, did Occupy Wall Street ever miss the boat on that one!

[jamzrockz]

31. In a world where

pro democratic protesters ousted a democratically elected president, the anti Kiev protesters are just referred to as pro Russia. I think they may be pro Russia but they are pro Russian because they are anti Kiev. Just like the Syria opposition are pro American because they are anti Assad.

[Bosonic]

18. Ukraine's rebels in crisis after Donetsk 'coup'

Ukraine's rebels in crisis after Donetsk 'coup'

Ukraine's rebel movement was plunged into crisis on Thursday, when pro-Russian fighters backed by armoured personnel carriers seized the movement's headquarters in Donetsk and destroyed the barricades protecting it.

The surprise move by a group called the Vostok Battalion, a heavily armed rebel unit that has been involved in fighting against the Ukrainian army, sparked speculation about an internal coup within the fractious rebel movement.

There was also speculation that the move could have been an attempt by the leadership to purge undesirable elements with the Donetsk Peoples' Republic.

Key rebel leaders, who were not in the building when the fighters arrived, insisted they were still in control and that they had even ordered the operation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10863933/Ukraines-rebels-in-crisis-after-Donetsk-coup.html

[another_liberal]

24. Source: The Wall Street Journal?

Give me a break!

[Adrahil]

25. So the Vostok battalion didn't do it?

I mean, it's not not on RT, so dint happen, right?

This story is being reported by many other places.

[another_liberal]

28. "Reported on," perhaps . . .

But not with the banker-loving slant and billionaire-hugging bias of the WSJ.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

29. That was the first link that came up on my Google News search

But there are many other sources reporting likewise, so take your pick:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/29/ukraine-anti-terror-hardens-opposition-donbass

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/30/world/europe/rebels-shoot-military-helicopter.html?_r=0

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/30/us-ukraine-crisis-east-group-idUSKBN0EA0XY20140530

http://www.businessinsider.com/roland-oliphant-ukrainian-rebels-are-in-crisis-after-a-possible-coup-2014-5

https://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/radio-free-europeradio-liberty-pro-russian-troops-reportedly-evict-other-rebels-from-donetsk-headquarters-350028.html

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/chaos-in-ukraine-as-russian-fighters-take-separatists-hq-30316180.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/uneasy-quiet-over-eastern-ukraine-after-fierce-clashes/2014/05/30/e0ff9714-e86f-4c3f-960f-1ad736f4a82a_story.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/05/russian-led-rebels-dig-ukraine-attack-20145308225663111.html

[another_liberal]

32. Al Jazeera?

You surprise me, Mr. Carcetti!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

33. How?

The point is that a wide variety of news sources all confirmed the same story. So attacking the first source posted is meaningless.

[another_liberal]

37. I wasn't attacking WJS for its story . . .

I was attacking it for being a lying, Murdoch rag.

[Bosonic]

36. Anarchy in Donetsk as security breaks down

Anarchy in Donetsk as security breaks down

Donetsk (Ukraine) (AFP) - With rebel leaders accused of looting supermarkets and car showrooms being robbed by "revolutionaries", the pro-Russian stronghold of Donetsk in eastern Ukraine is slipping into anarchy.

"A few days ago, armed men in hooded tops arrived at two car showrooms. They demanded a dozen cars 'for the revolution'," said Tikhon, a friend of one of the targeted showrooms' owners.

"Who are these people? No one knows anything about them. But what can you do when you have a Kalashnikov pointed at you?"

With the town under the control of pro-Russian militants and many of the police switching allegiance to support the insurgents, Donetsk has become a lawless city.

...

http://news.yahoo.com/anarchy-donetsk-security-breaks-down-173730792.html;_ylt=AwrBEiIZxYhTUwgAyDfQtDMD