13 Israeli soldiers killed overnight in Gaza

[shaayecanaan]

Source: Al Jazeera

Since last night, 13 soldiers from the IDF's Golani Brigade were killed while fighting Hamas terrorists in Gaza.

No further details at this time.

Read more: http://live.aljazeera.com/Event/Gaza_Blog

---

This is the largest daily toll of Israeli combat dead since the war with Hezbollah in 2006.

[muriel_volestrangler]

1. And, to be clear, that's from the official IDF Twitter account

not just a claim from Hamas.

[yeoman6987]

76. Saddened by this tragedy.

Humans has got to be stopped! Thought to the Israeli families. My stomach aches for Israel. So much tragedy throughout history. Can they ever get a break?

[heaven05]

2. what a sad world

we have here. And it's not just in the middle east the sadness is present. geez.

[Comrade Grumpy]

3. That happens to invading soldiers sometimes. n/t

[YarnAddict]

4. Didn't read the details, but

if Hamas came through the tunnels INTO Israel, then who was invading whom??

[The Stranger]

65. You totally made that up and you know it.

Nice try.

[shenmue]

5. Invading their own country?

Or is it okay with you, because they're not Palestinians?

[Comrade Grumpy]

7. Headline says "killed overnight IN GAZA."

If they are part of the IDF invasion of Gaza, I shed no tears for them.

[shenmue]

9. Didn't know Gaza was a country

So, Israelis bad, let them die. Palestinians good.

Got it.

[kickysnana]

11. Are you being paid or working propaganda for free?

To be fair. I am not being paid, nor do I belong to any political or religious organization.

[JackRiddler]

13. The pro-Israeli propaganda has its contradictions.

Gaza is not occupied territory, therefore not Israel?

Or wait, is it Israel now? Those are just cops, then.

Can we get it straight?

[kickysnana]

14. Right, officer friendly in a tank. n/t

[Billy Budd]

35. Those are soldiers

The IDF kills little kids on purpose...

[former9thward]

38. A lie.

Hamas does kill civilians on purpose. And they put their people, including little kids, in harms way on purpose.

[Billy Budd]

39. Israel considers Palestinians Untermensch subhumans

Tyler Hicks, a New York Times photojournalist who was in a nearby hotel when the Gaza beach strike occurred and photographed the boys' bodies as they were carried away, wrote in an essay Thursday that "there is no safe place in Gaza right now."

“Bombs can land at any time, anywhere,” he wrote. “A small metal shack with no electricity or running water on a jetty in the blazing seaside sun does not seem like the kind of place frequented by Hamas militants, the Israel Defense Forces’ intended targets. Children, maybe four feet tall, dressed in summer clothes, running from an explosion, don’t fit the description of Hamas fighters, either.”

I have a stone cold feeling for the IDF ..

[Billy Budd]

40. 77 percent

More than 160 civilians, including more than 40 children, have been killed in Gaza since July 7, when Israel launched its anti-Hamas military operation. "According to preliminary information, 77 [percent] of Palestinian fatalities so far have been civilians, raising concerns about respect for international humanitarian law," the UN wrote in a July 16 report.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/boys-killed-gaza-father-photo_n_5596627.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

[former9thward]

42. Because Hamas purposely put them in harms way.

For propaganda purposes as you see in this thread.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

55. WHERE the HELL are they supposed to go?

Gaza has become little more than a prison. Denialists and propaganda providers like you only make Israel even worse, supported now only by lies and bullshit.

[NickB79]

61. Well, they could camp out on the beach

Wait, bad idea: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/07/16/dispatch-israeli-strike-kills-four-children-at-a-gaza-beach/

[countryjake]

60. A beautiful brother went looking for his family in the death zone...

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/beautiful-brother-looking.html

Shajiya – There was a ceasefire today for 3 hours – so some of us internationals went to the area which I refer to as the ‘Death Zone’ – Shajiya, we went to see if we could help with the masses of injured amongst the rubble.

The Death Zone is unlike any destruction I have seen in my life – there is no place left without bombing, shelling or sniper shots. Total devastation.

We reached and there was a beautiful brother who was looking for his family. Doing our job, we made the decision collectively to help find the brother’s family amongst the annihilation.

Unfortunately, the danger starts, there is constant bombing very very very close by, drones literally above our heads and sniper shooting. We are ducking and diving, and weaving in and out of the rubble and destruction.

We have so much to worry about – 1- to find this brother’s family, 2- to not get struck on the head by falling debris from the tops of buildings/houses, 3 – to ensure our safety from the Israeli Occupational Forces.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025267349

[christx30]

15. If your country is being attacked,

you go to where the enemy is and stop them. If Hamas would stop the rockets, that would stop the attacks into Gaza.

[3auld6phart]

30. Just joshing are you?

You forgot the sarcasm thingy.

[JackRiddler]

36. For a minute there I thought you meant the 13 soldiers.

"If your country is being attacked, you go to where the enemy is and stop them." Sounds like what some Palestinians just tried to do in shooting back at the Israeli soldiers. Though of course there's no stopping the IDF. Unless we can get the U.S. to stop supplying it, maybe that would move something.

As for "If Hamas would stop the rockets," well then we see what happens when they do. They just did stop, for several years. When Israeli leaders decide there's a good domestic political reason to start bombing Gaza, as they just did, however, then they bomb Gaza. Then some of those Hamas rockets fly into Israel, pointlessly (no credit for smarts among anyone launching rockets, on any side). With a bit of time-machine magic, the Israeli bombing of helpless civilians in an occupied territory, a million plus people trapped in an open-air prison, can then be blamed on the Palestinian response. Voila.

[Billy Budd]

41. when is Israel going to stop land thieving ?

Hamas is rocketing the mortal enemies of the Palestinian people ...Israel assassinated two Palestinians teenagers in May... Israel is inhumane arrogant and needs to be taken down a bit from its hubris...

[bravenak]

70. So stealing land and killing kids is okay?

We are just stuck up for hating the death and suffering. Wow.

[bravenak]

72. I want Israel to stop making excuses for killing civilians.

I also do not want to help them pay for the weapons they use to bomb hospitals.
If Hamas were dropping bombs on hospitals and killing hundreds of Israelis a week my venom would be directed at them. They are not. The IDF is. I have seen no apologies from the Israeli government for the slauter of women, children, or civilians. I have seen Israel blaming Hamas for the bombs Israel drops and the missiles they used to eradicate those four boys on the beach.


If the Israeli government and the supporters of that government showed an once of compassion for those dead babies i would feel slightly different. As a woman who held my own dead child in my arms, i have no respect for humans who kill babies. I was those wailing women at one point. I remember what it feel like to hold the limp body of my beautiful girl in my arms, lost in misery.

I find it strange that you are upset with the fact that i empathize with the dead not the killers.

[bravenak]

74. Killing children is wrong. Bombing hospitals is wrong.

Killing civilians is evil no matter if you warn them first they they are gojng to die by your hand.


Many an Israeli soldier has stated that they wish death upon Palestinians. Israeli politician recently called for the deaths of the mothers of Palestine. There is also a member of the Knesset who proclaimed that he has a plan to get rid of ALL the Palestinians. So now what? Israeli fighters call for the death of Palestine and the Hamas fighters call for the death of Israel. But who is the one doing most of the ACTUAL killing? ISRAEL. I can want to kill a guy so hard and say i would like for him to die, but i would never go shoot a missile at his children. Ever. Ever. Ever. I am not that cruel.

[bravenak]

79. I am against the slaughter i see on my screen.

When i see the bodies of hundreds of women, children, and civilians piling up in a weeks time, i tend to blame the guys pulling the trigger. With all of the money and equiptment we help pay for, i should not see babies wrapped in cloth by the dozens by people i generally respect.

I have not seen the IDF stop killing civilians since they made that 'mistake' on the beach in Gaza. I have seen a ramp up of the killing of innocents. Nearly a hundred in one day. That is not a precision excersize. On top of that, we have Israeli politicians and supporters blaming the victims for not getting out of the way of the bombs. They have no where to go. They have no weapons of similar caliber to fight back with. The destruction is now very lopsided.

I cannot support a military force who kills children to get to a missile. I cannot support a nation in a military excersize when they are dropping bombs on hospitals and killing whole families, many of whom have absolutely nothing to do with Hamas. Never become the people you are fighting against. Always be better than the 'bad' guy, otherwise you will wake up one day and find out that you are now the bad guy. 500 people dead so far and most of them are civilians. Civilians greatly outnumber fighters in the morgue. How can i support that with a clear consience when i could not support the drone strikes that my own nation does?

The extreme right wing holds sway in the Israeli government at this time, and that is the catalyst fir the outpouring of support for Palestine. Not for one day during my lifetime has Palestine been free of Israeli control and various methods of oppression.

At one time Israel was the underdog in the world and we all supported them. They are now the mighty and Palestine is the underdog. They need my support much more than Israel at this time. Their homes and hospitals and schools are being destroyed in Gaza. Their lives are crushed. Their children and mothers are dying in rubble from bombs dropped on them by the IDF. I shall not condemn civilians for hating the military force who are at this time dropping bombs on their children. I rage with them with every broken, limp, child pulled from the rubble.

We are living in a modern age and i expect much more from our allies than to kill many more civilians than enemy fighters in a 'precision' operation. I expect the government of Israel to be as good and fair and caring as they say they are. The longer i go seeing the venom displayed by the people dropping bomb on hospitals towards the people they just killed, the more disheartened i feel and the more disconnected i feel from the killers. I am not a killer. I am not a hater. I will never kill a child to get to a bad guy. I would cover that child with my own body and protect them from the bad man. Even if i die. Thats what adults do for children if they love children. You have to love ALL the children. Not kill them. Killing thm hurts all of us. Those children are the worlds children, not the IDF's children to collaterally kill. It must stop now.


I also fear that this time, with the advances in social media and the awareness of humanity on issues of war, this will hurt Israel much more than Netanyahu believes. The world will lose trust in Israels leaders and it makes MY nation look terrible for providing the weaponry. We already made huge mistakes in our wars in the middle east, killed so many. This need to stop. Now. And Israel needs to take a look at their policies and government and make some big changes to their leadership.

[The Stranger]

66. Oh bullshit. You go to where the land is you want to steal.

Come on.

You don't come around here often, do you?

[shaayecanaan]

6. More details here

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/248749/13-golani-soldiers-killed-rl-in-gaza-fighting-since-last-night.html

Two of the dead are American. The soldiers were killed over more than four separate incidents. Seven were killed by a successful strike on an apc by an anti tank crew.

[Strelnikov_]

20. Looks like the same dynamic as the 2006 Lebanon incursion

Crew served ground-ground missiles, even older gen knockoffs, have gotten very deadly, especially in areas where the crews have good cover.

[shaayecanaan]

44. Hezbollah provided training after cast lead

Apparently Hezbollah wasn't all that impressed, complained that the Hamas boys sometimes didn't turn up to training in time. But apparently they learned a few things.

[Nihil]

81. Serves them right, damn terrorists flying overseas to take part in their Holy War ...

> Two of the dead are American.

Oh what was that? They weren't treacherous Muslim terrorists after all?
Ah, that's different.

"What a shame that those brave Americans were brutally killed abroad!"

[d_b]

8. cry me a fucking river

[jakeXT]

10. Try Aug 9 2006

Aug 9, 2006

15 reserve soldiers were killed and 40 wounded in four different incidents in south Lebanon:
A paratrooper was killed and 10 wounded by friendly fire from an IDF tank in the village of A-Taibeh in the eastern sector of south Lebanon.
Nine paratroopers were killed and 11 wounded by anti-tank missiles fired on a house in the village of Debel, in the central sector.
Four reservists from an armored brigade were killed when their tank was hit by an anti-tank missile, in Ayta al-Shaab.
An infantryman was killed by a mortar near Marjayoun.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/terrorism/hizbullah/pages/israel-hizbullah%20conflict-%20victims%20of%20rocket%20attacks%20and%20idf%20casualties%20july-aug%202006.aspx

[shaayecanaan]

45. Fair enough will edit

[bluedigger]

12. We've lost quite a few more on several different days.

BAGHDAD, Iraq – A U.S. helicopter crashed in a desert sandstorm in the early morning darkness Wednesday, killing the 30 Marines and one Navy sailor aboard. Six other troops died in insurgent ambushes in the deadliest day for Americans since the Iraq war began nearly two years ago.

...

The deadliest previous incident for U.S. troops was also a helicopter crash: a November 2003 collision of two Black Hawk (search) helicopters that killed 17. Before Wednesday's bloodshed, the most Americans killed in one day came on the invasion's third day — March 23, 2003 — when 28 troops were killed during the U.S. military's drive to take Baghdad and topple Saddam Hussein.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2005/01/27/37-troops-killed-on-deadliest-day-in-iraq/

Not that it is anything to take comfort in.

[bemildred]

46. Beirut:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing

[bluedigger]

47. I remember that one well.

It always sucks to go out to morning formation and watch the flag go to half mast and find out the bad news. But that was outside the topic at hand.

[bemildred]

48. It seemed like quite a few more to me.

Not trying to impugn what you said.

[bluedigger]

49. What did?

Sorry, I'm not following your point.

[bemildred]

50. 300 dead soldiers in one day, I thought we were talking about dead soldiers. nt

[bluedigger]

56. The OP was more specific.

They were saying that they thought the Israelis had lost more troops in one day than the US had in either Iraq or Afghanistan, and I corrected them. Beirut is outside the conversation. The all time US record in one day for casualties is Gettysburg, I think. Maybe Antietam. It's a difficult topic to research, as KIA and WIA from both sides are commingled, and wounded linger and expire of their wounds decades later sometimes.

[bemildred]

58. From the op:

I don't think the US lost as many dead in single day in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

So I went a little outside the box.

Probably right about Gettysburg, the only other place I'd think of would be France in WWI.

[bluedigger]

59. It's really hard to get numbers for a single day.

We lost a lot of troops in WWI in the final Meuse-Argonne Offensive, but it was over a couple of months. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meuse-Argonne_Offensive

It's a little easier in more modern conflicts, probably due to a combination of better record keeping and lower overall intensity. I would assume that Beirut was the worst single day since WWII, or maybe Korea. Possibly the first day of the Tet offensive. Most figures I've seen are broken down by battle rather than day.

[bemildred]

68. Yeah, WWI was just the last time mass charges against machine guns was considered a good idea.

And artillery. But you are right about the numbers, no way to tell for sure. And we did get in late.

Generally, I like your assessment, but don't know for sure. Certainly since Tet.

[dhill926]

18. Really.

Wow...

[Jackpine Radical]

19. Good God, how can you say that?

How can you say that about ANY deaths?

[Downtown Hound]

21. Because I don't feel sorry for those who get what's coming to them

then they participate in the oppression and slaughter of thousands of innocents.

[Jackpine Radical]

28. I was a participant in a shameful war

many years ago. I was a draftee, but I permitted myself to be drafted and sent into it rather than fleeing to Canada or Sweden. Many of my peers were killed or disabled in that war.

Since we have not been in a morally defensible war since WWII, I take it that you feel that those who were killed or disabled in those wars also got what was coming to them. Perhaps we should cut off disability benefits and medical care for all those monsters who, like me, went out to do terrible things to lands and peoples who had never meant us any harm.

[redwitch]

22. Not good. None of it is good.

I hate the whole situation. How in the hell is it good? It solves nothing and creates more grief.

[Downtown Hound]

26. Grieving for them solves nothing either except to satisfy some misguided

notion of privileged Americans who don't get harassed daily and live under armed occupation by the Isreali military. If you lived through what the Palestinians lived through on a daily basis, trust me, you wouldn't be grieving.

[redwitch]

29. I think everyone has the right to live. Including the Palestinian people.

Whole generations growing up in the giant cage that is Gaza is completely wrong. The families and other loved ones of those dead soldiers will harden their hearts even further. Which leads to more death, more misery in an unending cycle. It is time for it to stop.

[SnakeEyes]

64. Gaza is a cage?

Please, do elaborate

It will stop when Hamas wants it to stop

Why is it we don't hear about rockets being launched from the West Bank but we do from Gaza?

[JoDog]

78. Quick points of fact

Gaza is not occupied by Israel. The IDF left in 2005, and most non-Palestinian civilians went with them. In 2006, at the urging of the American government, Gaza held elections that put the paramilitary organization Hamas into political power. Hamas retained power in the 2010 elections.

The increase in missile attacks on Israel came shortly after Hamas and Fatah (the Palestinian political power in the West Bank) announced their unification. There will be a general Palestinian election in the fall.

I think it is possible that both Hamas and Israel are trying to create a "Wag the Dog" situation to influence the upcoming elections.

[Downtown Hound]

25. It's really not that complicated

Don't invade their land and butcher their people, and they won't kill you. That's about the extent of my list.

[bravenak]

17. It be like that sometimes.

The world is seeing Israel through new eyes. We see you Israel. We see you more and more clearly with each dead child lying in the rubble. My eyes burn, i see you so hard.

[bravenak]

69. For good reason.

I'm human.

[Old Vet]

27. Just sitting in awe reading these heartless,mean replies.....................

[AngryDem001]

34. Me too.

Is this really DEMOCRATIC underground?

[Calista241]

80. You do realize

That virtually ALL of our elected Democrats will stand up and support the Israeli actions in Gaza. Many of them will advocate that the Israeli military should do more.

[leftynyc]

75. Not surprised at all

but then I've been here a lot longer.

[daleo]

31. Question is, will this cause the operation to expand or contract

On the one hand, it will produce some desire for revenge, regardless of the rights or wrongs of the incursion. On the other hand, Israelis are pretty sensitive to soldiers deaths.

I think the latter tendency will prevail, after a short ramp-up of hostilities. Then, it's back to the status quo.

[azurnoir]

32. This is more than the total number of IDF killed in Pillar of Cloud and Cast Lead combined

and brings the total for this operation to 18, how this will play out in end remains to be seen but I'm sure comes as a shock to Israel's leaders

[bemildred]

33. There will be more, if this goes on.

Supposedly spread over four incidents, so it's not a fluke.

[geek tragedy]

37. This will put pressure on Bibi

to use even more violence. His far- right allies are going to want some kind of "payback" for this--or a bigger "win" than shutting down some tunnels .

[bemildred]

43. Yep.

And Hamas is going to make use of it too.

Meanwhile, much of the rest of the world is yelling at him to stop immediately.

[geek tragedy]

67. Between the rest of the works and hardliners & settlers

Bibi has been pretty consistent as to which he considers relevant.

[shaayecanaan]

51. Israeli APC destroyed was a fifty-year old M113

Vulnerable to everything but small arms fire. It was destroyed by an RPG. How do you say arrogance in Hebrew?

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.606238/.premium-1.606238

[DCBob]

57. This wont play well back in Tel Aviv.

The assumption was they would just waltz in do their business and get out with little resistance.

[harun]

62. Yeah. There's a new sherrif in town, Iran.

[ltheghost]

63. The Body Count

Is going to rise in the next couple of days of the ground invasion for both sides. But we all know the Palestinians are out gunned and are going to take the brunt of the deaths. From what we have all witnessed the rockets are not going to stop and neither is Israel. We could be seeing what could finally the FINAL battle in Gaza. The question is, how many Palestinians will have to die before Israel decides to stop?