BREAKING: Scotland Rejects Independence

[Hissyspit]

Last edited Fri Sep 19, 2014, 01:19 AM - Edit history (6)

Source: Bloomberg

Scotland Rejects Independence as U.K. Wins Reprieve

By Rodney Jefferson
September 19, 2014 1:02 AM EDT

Scotland voted to remain in the U.K. after an independence referendum that put the future of the 307-year-old union on a knife edge and risked years of political and financial turmoil.

After counting through the night, 55 percent of Scottish voters supported the “no” campaign compared with 45 percent who backed independence. The pound surged ahead of the result, which gave the Better Together campaign a wider margin of victory than suggested in opinion polls. The result was based on 29 of the 32 local authorities declared after a record turnout of more than 90 percent in some regions.

“I am deeply disappointed like the thousands across the country who put their heart and soul into this campaign,” Nicola Sturgeon, the deputy first minister in Scotland’s devolved government, said on BBC Television. “Our country is never going to be the same after this campaign.”

The referendum outcome follows two years of increasingly bitter arguments over the economic viability of independence, the currency to be used, custody of the health service and North Sea oil revenue, leaving a legacy of a divided Scotland while inspiring self-determination movements across Europe.

Scotland Decides
SCOTLAND VOTES NO

29 of 32 counts
NO
55%
NO
1,737,464
YES
45%
YES
1,398,540
Turnout
84.49%



Read more: http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-19/scotland-rejects-independence-as-u-k-wins-reprieve.html

[still_one]

1. Actually the No is winning right now, so this headline is somewhat misleading

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29263022

[dipsydoodle]

2. Scottish independence: 'No' leads referendum vote

The campaign to keep Scotland in the UK has taken the most votes so far in the Scottish independence referendum, as counting continues across the country.

With 24 out of the 32 council areas having declared, the "No" side is on 54% of the vote, with the "Yes" campaign on 46%.

By 05:00 BST (06:00 GMT), the "No" campaign had more than 1,305,000 votes, with "Yes" on just over 1,102,000.

A total of 1,852,828 votes is needed for victory in the referendum.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29263022

Getting to the point where only the shouting will remain. Who paid for this exercise ?

[davidpdx]

3. I kind of figured that was going to be the outcome

I feel bad for those who wanted independence from the UK.

[TwilightGardener]

4. Geez, all they have to do is VOTE, and they can't manage to gain independence.

We about chewed off our own leg to get away from England--see, Scotland, ya gotta WANT it!

[riderinthestorm]

33. Ok, this made me laugh. As an Irish woman however, I agree.

Ireland went through a fair bit more "trouble" (cough) than even America did in order to throw off the Brits... You gotta want it!

I will say however, I like this manner of deciding the matter instead of bloody wars.

[Oakenshield]

5. Cowards.

They had a chance to firmly rebuke the politics of Thatcher and austerity, and they blew it.

[Rebubula]

22. The rebuke was in the vote itself

Scotland would have suffered greatly from this....especially the lower rungs of society. The wealthy would have stayed wealthy and the poor would have lost millions in benefits and support

Calling them cowards simply shows a lack of understanding of the details and what the reprecussions would have been.

[7962]

25. +1. Sometimes the head is smarter than the heart

[Oakenshield]

46. The poor are already suffering.

20% of children are living below the breadline. More than 870,000 Scotts are living in poverty. Independence would have meant total control of their country and its natural resources, resources they could have used to raise the standard of living.

[Adrahil]

23. Voting for independence to rebuke Thatcherism and austerity...

... Is the equivalent of a toddler holding his breath because he's mad. Neither one can acheive the desired end. It's not much different from Texas threatening to secede because they don't what's the national government is doing.

I do hope that this incident has weakened Cameron and the Tories.

[Chan790]

27. Did they?

I'm biased (towards independence) and should be...I'm the descendent of exiled Jacobites on my paternal side who fled Scotland under warrants for their execution for backing Charles Edward Stuart's claim to the throne in the uprisings; living long enough to see their clan chieftainship handed to an apostate loyalist scum cousin, their lands taken, and their tartan used to dress oppressing forces against their fellow Catholics in N. Ireland.

And yet as much as I wanted a "Yes" vote, I think this was won for Scotland months ago when Westminster was compelled to basically give the Scots "the whole farm", so to speak, on devolution of authorities if they voted "No." The Scots are self-governing to a degree they have not been in centuries; self-governing to a degree that makes the continued Union one largely in name only for the Scottish people. Scotland is functionally a "Free State" today and onward. They control their own affairs, the Thatcherites and Blairites in London have less say over Scotland than Scottish MPs have over England.

So to say they blew it is unnuanced at-best. The concessions towards Holyrood are very likely to be the fractures upon which the UK stumbles. Belfast is largely, but not as largely now as Holyrood, the seat of a self-governing N. Ireland. It's not a stretch to think Cardiff will abruptly demand the same degrees of autonomy. There then goes the Union...the barbarians would be upon the gates, the English having less authority over their own affairs than the self-governing states of the Union {N. Ireland, Wales, Scotland} have over England, London and the UK within parliament.

At that point, only two options remain for the English: their right of unilateral dissolution of the writ of Westminster (that is, dissolving the UK--kicking Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland out to go it on their own) or forming their own English Parliament separate from Westminster to afford them their own self-autonomy within the Union...basically rendering the UK into a loose confederation of self-governing states with few shared responsibilities.

At some point, after the margin narrowed, the Scotland question became one of "Yes, we win. No, they lose." for the Scots. There was no losing proposition for Scotland last night. They'd already gotten all the prizes and were going to be allowed to dodge the consequences if they voted to maintain the now-mostly-empty Union.

[Ghost Dog]

28. A degree of self-government similar to Spain's

Autonomous Communities at present appears to be what is now on offer to Scotland. Perhaps similar to Germany's Federal States too, but I'm not so familiar with that.

There is no way Spain will break up.

Greater devolution of powers within the EU was a Thatcherite demand; but of course the Thatcherites were and are dishonest: They only wanted devolution TO Westiminster, not BELOW it.

[daleo]

51. Canadian provinces have a lot of autonomy, and Parliamentary government

Britain might do ell to follow that example.

[wakemewhenitsover]

53. +1. Well said.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

30. Somehow I doubt,

were a Scot standing in front of you, the word coward would come out of your mouth. You don't live there do you?

[ScottishDee]

34. Hmm

As a YES voter Im bitterly disappointed by the result and by the way my fellow Scots voted but even I think calling them cowards is a bit OTT.

I dont blame anyone for not wanting to take that leap, especially considering the horrendously negative campaigning of Better Together which had to be seen to be believed.

Where I do have sympathy though is, if and when Scotland gets screwed over by a Conservative government it doesn't vote for yet again, those same voters who voted NO start complaining about it.

[riderinthestorm]

38. Welcome to DU!

[ScottishDee]

43. Thanks!

[Oakenshield]

48. It was a campaign they shouldn't have fallen for.

Salmon rightly pointed out the baseless fear mongering of the NO campaign during his last debate with Darling. If that wasn't enough, they should have been moved to vote yes by the scornful treatment of Angus MacNeil when he rightly brought up the North Sea oil revenues.

[DFW]

6. Well, how about that?

Cooler heads prevailed after all. They voted, but just didn't shout as loudly as the other side. The published polls were off by so much as to be laughable.

Now you know why Rick Perry never put secession up for a referendum in Texas. For all the noise, there might have been 7% of us that really would have voted for secession--probably about the percentage of Republicans nationally that would like to see our Governor Oops as their nominee for president in 2016. This is not to be confused with the percentage of Democrats that would like to see Perry as the Republican nominee (probably around 80%), thus insuring a free ride for us to the White House again in 2016. Perry is one of the few Republicans being mentioned as a nominee that would probably lose against a ticket of Rachel Maddow and Thom Hartmann.

[NBachers]

11. "Rachel Maddow and Thom Hartmann" - Imagine the cabinet in that administration

Where would Al Franken fit in? Secretary of Education?

"Historians credit Secretary of State Barack Obama's address before the United Nations as a turning point in world events . . ."

White House Press Secretary Conan O'Brien opened today's weekly press conference . . .

[Rhiannon12866]

12. LOL! I'd vote for that ticket!

Good cabinet picks, too. I'd like to see Jimmy Carter (HUD?) and Alan Grayson play a role, too.

[DFW]

15. Jimmy Carter is 90

I think he'd prefer to take it a little easier than take up the life of a Cabinet Secretary at this point.

Howard Dean for HHS (which he should have been offered in 2009), and maybe Alan Grayson for HUD?

You realize, we are all on sort of a fantasy LSD trip with this. I didn't mean it as a subject for any kind of serious discussion. Let's face it: we're not going to see a ticket of Rachel and Thom on any ballot in our lifetime. We're not smart enough to do ourselves THAT big of a favor, and the country is not smart enough to vote for them even if we were.

[Rhiannon12866]

17. I know that, but he's such an incredible resource!

And I realize that this is fantasy, but I couldn't help wishing that any one of our presidents, even Clinton, didn't bring him on board when dealing with the Israeli-Palestinian situation. President Clinton was good, but President Carter was even better.

[Skittles]

13. excellent assessment, DFW

YEE HAW

[Lodestar]

18. Why IS that? It seems they always report that it's too close to call

That's true here at home too. Prior to Bush election debacle it seemed the polls, especially the exit polls were pretty accurate.

Not sure why that happened in Scotland too.

[DFW]

20. Beats me

Maybe it makes for better media entertainment.

You know, like if there is a murder mystery, and they identify the killer, arrest and convict him in the first five minutes of the show, everyone will switch channels to watch football or something, since there is no more suspense. You can't sell advertising for the rest of a 50 minute mystery if there's no mystery.

[Hissyspit]

50. Smaller population, only one item on ballot, to start with.

Probably other issues, as well.

[Lenomsky]

7. Shocked ..

at the result but hey that's democracy, happy with the massive turnout though.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/results

[quadrature]

8. pensions more important than national destiny

very sad

[Adrahil]

24. What!?

If I'm living on a pension, you bet that's more important than fulfilling the nationalistic dreams of a couple of wankers in Edinborough.

[iandhr]

29. easy for someone who has no stake in the matter to say

[Justitia]

9. what a headline, eh?

As an American, watching people cheering (the no voters) the voluntary surrender of their independence is quite surreal!!



My heart goes out to our Scottish brothers & sisters who voted for self-governance.

[HereSince1628]

26. I would think 45% of the nation voting for closer-to-home rule would be so significant

that the UK will need to reshape its division of the responsibilities of government and the citizens ability to shape local/regional governance via their consent.

This isn't necessarily a win that will preserve all that is status quo, or a loss that prevents reform.

[MisterP]

45. "I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go unionist due to the irresponsibility

of its people," eh?

[mimi85]

10. Wish we could get that kind of turnout! nt

[Earth_First]

19. +10000

Absolutely agree!

[riderinthestorm]

31. 85%. Stunning! Nt

[blkmusclmachine]

14. So, what Company "counted" the secret black box votes, and are the votes open for

independent verification, or do we just blindly accept what the Company says as true???

[Spider Jerusalem]

16. Paper ballots, marked by hand, counted by humans and checked and verified by other humans

this isn't an election in Florida we're talking about.

[Berlin Expat]

21. That's similar

to how elections are done here in the Czech Republic as well. Paper ballot, marked with permanent ink, counted and tabulated by hand and verified and confirmed by (human) election overseers. It usually takes a couple of days to get the final results, being a nation of 10 million, but I prefer the human touch in such matters.

[LanternWaste]

49. Asking a petulant, bumper-sticker like, rhetorical question is also a distinct possibility

You may "just blindly accept what the Company says as true???" or simply research your own question.

I suppose the third option-- of asking a petulant, bumper-sticker like, rhetorical question is also a distinct possibility... but I have a rather difficult time imagining you doing so.

[snooper2]

32. Well, at least they won't go broke now

[Adrahil]

35. Lots of talk of further devolution.... I think the UK needs a federal system.

With Westminster currently being the single national parliament.... and the only authority for England, it seems to me, that the UK needs to devolve a lot of authority to national parliaments (one for England, one for Scotland, one for Wales, and one for Northern Ireland. Then have a UK-level council or Parliament to deal with Federal issues. It looks like they are limping that direction. They might as well embrace it.

[KamaAina]

41. Wales does not have one as yet

it's part of "England and Wales". Look for some movement on this front in the near future.

[Adrahil]

44. Yup... the Welsh FM is already talking about it.

And even some English PM's want an English Parliament to decide English issues.

Makes sense, but it seems to me that it would be better to rethink the whole governmental structure. A single imperial parliament no longer makes sense, if it ever did.

[rhett o rick]

36. k&r. Thanks for posting. nm

[Sunlei]

37. I wish the USA had that great turnout and 97% registered voters.

Win or Lose, the people of Scotland seem to care deeply about their Gov., Country, right to vote & a very fair voting process.

[Coventina]

39. The Romantic in me said "aye" the Pragmatist said "nay."

The Romantic is sad, but the Pragmatist is relieved.

Democracy worked, and that's what's most important of all.

[truthisfreedom]

40. World remains boring,

Kilt sales down.

[KamaAina]

42. All that's left is to pick up the pieces

(Average White Band is Scottish. )

[Bosonic]

47. In summation:

[PassingFair]

52. "I can't understand why you let someone else rule your land..."

Cap in hand.