Expert: Zimmerman whispered 'punks' before shooting Trayvon Martin

[alp227]

Source: CNN

A forensic audio expert who analyzed 911 recordings disagrees with speculation that George Zimmerman uttered a racial slur moments before shooting Trayvon Martin to death.

What the neighborhood watch volunteer whispered as he followed the teen leading up to the deadly confrontation could weigh into the decision about charges against Zimmerman.

The garbled word that raised controversy was "punks," not "coons," said Tom Owen, chairman emeritus of the American Board of Recorded Evidence.

When Owen used a computer application to remove cell phone interference, the word became clearer, he said. After discussions with linguists, he became convinced that Zimmerman said "punks," he said.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/05/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

---

Really? REALLY? Go to 1:50 of this video and listen:

What happened to Tom Owen? First he reassured that Zimmerman wasn't screaming for help, then he interprets a certain word that Z whispered beginning with "c-" as beginning with "p-".

[earthside]

1. We may never know for sure.

But it is important not to hear what we want to hear ... the truth is what we are all seeking.

Whether or not it is ever proven that Zimmerman committed a hate crime, we need to have an arrest and a trial on manslaughter or murder.

Simple justice.

[abelenkpe]

2. disagree

I listen to audio tracks all day doing lip sync. He did not say punk and no one will convince me otherwise.

[IamK]

32. I was listening to the radio all day and it sounds like F'in punks...

but he still killed a kid...

[Igel]

40. I heard "punk" the first time I heard it.

Then again, I know how /p/ and /k/ affect vowels, dialect differences in different kinds of vowels in English, and what happens to final consonants.

I also know that in isolation, without context, we assume everybody speaks like us.

A couple of months ago my TV screen was displaying the splash screen for a video. "BOP." My kid and wife read it "bop". I knew it was a Russian movie and read it "vor". I recorded it and knew that it would finish out the blank DVD so let it go for longer than necessary. When I went upstairs, without thinking I looked at the tv and saw the word "bop." It took me a few moments to re-orient myself and recall that I needed to use a different alphabet to decode what my eyes saw.

A lot of people can't get past the idea of putting themselves in the speaker's position if they're listening and have a vested interest in being right about the other person's intent or wording; they also can't get past assuming that their intent is the only thing that matters when others misunderstand them. They're consistent. Not a good thing, IMHO.

[Cosmocat]

41. It is what I heard, too. People are getting caught in the weeds ...

I don't care if he called him a fine young man.

He stalked him and executed him.

Getting stuck on what he called him is getting into the weeds the right wing wants to create for this.

[mista411]

51. What Did George Say - Who Cares?

I am more concerned about what he did than what he said. Even if he used a racial slur, he can apologize for that and it's o. k. But he can't restore the life that he took away, a son, who most likely would have gone on to become a husband, a father, a good citizen, maybe even President.

Let's work together on getting Draconian laws like "Stand Your Ground" and racial profiling policies repealed. God bless US - A ll. http://yurconnected.blogspot.com

[yardwork]

52. Welcome to DU!

[Cosmocat]

55. YEP

Go get em ...

[goclark]

59. Exactly!

"Let's work together on getting Draconian laws like "Stand Your Ground" and racial profiling policies repealed. God bless US - A ll. http://yurconnected.blogspot.com"

[Jumping John]

3. So Joe Oliver has no credibility and is just a tool. "Goons = HS term of endearment." nt

[zeemike]

4. This is an attempt to ward off the FBI

Because thy cannot prosecute unless it is a civil rights violation.

[Iliyah]

5. No matter how they try and spin it

Zimmerman did not say punk, he said F**king coon. CNN use to be the best of the best when it came to factual news. Now, they are at the same level as Fake news.

[alp227]

47. Don't attack CNN, attack the CEO of the Board of Recorded Evidence.

In fact, this article says: "CNN also enhanced the sound of the 911 call, and several members of CNN's editorial staff repeatedly reviewed the tape but could reach no consensus on whether Zimmerman used a slur." CNN originally did that review on March 24: "A top CNN audio engineer enhanced the sound of the 911 call, and several members of CNN's editorial staff repeatedly reviewed the tape but could reach no consensus on whether Zimmerman used a racial slur."

[brentspeak]

6. Here's a tape loop I made of the excerpt in question

I used Cool Edit Pro to clean up the sound:

http://www.divshare.com/download/17106796-a7d

To my ears, Zimmerman uses the word "punks", not "coons". That doesn't minimize his culpability in Martin's killing, though.

[Atypical Liberal]

8. Well, now I hear "punks".

It's funny, when I heard it on Young Turks, I was sure he was saying "coons". Now that I hear it after hearing it is supposed to be "punks", I can clearly hear punks.

I think this is one of those things like when they used to play rock music backwards and say it had messages to the devil in it. If no one tells you what to hear, you hear nothing. When someone suggests what to hear, you hear it.

Your link doesn't work, BTW.

[brentspeak]

9. Link works now n/t

[naaman fletcher]

10. interesting

I can hear it both ways

[-..__...]

35. So can I.

With the "punks" version a bit more distinctive.

Whichever way someone hears it (and it's apparent from reading this thread that some hear one version...
others a different version), doubt can be cast on what was actually recorded on the tapes; or put another way... the reliability of the evidence.

Assuming a trial... it can be expected that some jurors will hear whichever version their ears tell them.

[kas125]

11. Yours still sounds like "coons" to my ears.

[hlthe2b]

13. I listened repeatedly to your excerpt through bose noise reduction headphones... Nope still sounds

like "coons" to me. The ewww vowel sound is very very strong and I just don't see how anyone can interpret that as the "uh" sound in punks.

[brentspeak]

21. I hear an '..nks' at the tail end of the second word

An 'n' with a hard consonant.

[proReality]

15. Sorry, but with all due respect,

I think you may need hearing aids. The soft 'ooo' sound is prominent in the second word, there is no 'uh' sound that the word punks (or fuck) has. To fit the word punk in there, he'd have to be saying punking coons. Coons is absolutely the second word.

[Cooley Hurd]

24. I'm hearing "coons" - I don't hear the hard K that "punks" has...

I tried to listen to it as open-mindedly as possible, but the lack of the hard K at the end of the word, plus the "ooo" sound (not the "uh" sound in punks) makes it sound like something other than "punks" -actually it sounds exactly like "coons" to me.

[JoeyT]

30. I don't hear punk at all on yours.

I hear two words, "Fucking coons". The second word is coons, not the first one.

Besides which, if "punks" is what he said, the people they paid to lie for him wouldn't have twisted themselves into pretzels insisting he said "goons".

[ZombieHorde]

38. Beware of tape loops. If you listen to an audio tape loop for a while, your brain will

change what you actually hear. Just make sure to stop every 10 seconds or so.

[Cosmocat]

42. It doesn't matter

I heard punks all along ...

It does not matter one iota what he called him, and it does not matter what color either of them where.

That is getting caught up in the weeds the wing nuts want it to be in.

He stalked the kid and executed him, and because of who his father was, the morons who run the police department and DAs office tried to cover it up.

An innocent kid got killed and the lunatic who did it has not been brought to justice.

THAT is the story.

[JDPriestly]

7. Listen for the vowel. It is an oooo sound, not uh.

It seems clear to me, but we could misconstrue the consonants. The vowel is, however, an oooo as in blue to my ear (which is pretty reliable).

[Kalidurga]

12. If he did say punks, how is that actually less racist...

Yes, it is a word that doesn't neccessarily have a racist connotation. But, it is still more commonly applied to black youth. I don't think the word change if it is indeed what he says. makes a difference. His past is definitly going to need to be analyzed if he has a history of slurs this won't be too hard to find out. Personally, I am leaning toward he is most likely a racist whether he said, punks, goons, or coons.

[xxqqqzme]

17. 'punks'

casts him as a 'Dirty Harry' wanna-be, dispensing his own vigilante justice.

[Bacchus4.0]

20. you answered your own question

it doesn't have a racial connotation. not in my book anyway. while coon most certainly does.

[Igel]

36. It is?

It's most commonly applied to whatever kind of kid behaving badly happens to be around. I heard it growing up and wound up not hearing it applied to a black kid until I was perhaps in my 20s--except in movies.

Around my neighborhood it's mostly applied to black kids. Then again, there aren't many kids around here that aren't black.

[Blandocyte]

14. I keep hearing "Paul is dead" nt

[ashling]

26. Number Nine, Number Nine, Number Nine

[Common Sense Party]

27. "turn me on, dead man"

That might actually BE what he said, come to think of it.

[ashling]

45. Just found this clip

&feature=related

[X_Digger]

16. I still hear 'punks'..

I can hear the 'Puh' and the 'unks' -- the NK sound stands out to my ears.

[Bacchus4.0]

18. I can't listen now but I thought that is what he said originally. the media coverage frankly

has been pathetic and they are not serving the cause of justice by inventing evidence.

[X_Digger]

23. I'm generally cynical of the media anyway..

I fully expect there to be 'breaking developments' that actually aren't breaking or aren't actual developments.

The goal is to add eyeballs to the viewership numbers, to pump up ad revenue.

I recall one 'breaking news' segment on one of the networks, and the gist of it was something that we'd been discussing on DU for days previously. It might have been the Sanford PD partial police report, now that I think on it.

[Enrique]

19. the expert is ridiculously wrong

he might as well have concluded that he said "Louisiana coonasses".

[Snake Alchemist]

22. So be it. nt

[Common Sense Party]

25. "cold" not "coons"

[pasto76]

28. WOW! forst time Ive listened to this. I agree with Cenk

I was expecting to "hear" coons, instead I heard FUCKING COONS. wow. Sounds just like any of the dipshits I have to work with. wonder what the "expert" got for lying about this

[Lil Missy]

29. Sounds like "ooo" sound, I hear coons.

[IMOTM2012]

31. Does it matter??

He shot a kid in the chest. Guilty no matter what he said.

[Iliyah]

33. Just heard it

on CNN and the guy said it sounds like "cold" and then another so called experts says it sounds like punk. For crying out loud, arrest Zimmerman, Jeezus christ.

Zimmerman's story keep changing.

[Dont call me Shirley]

34. Headline rewrite: A Fornesic Expert With Close Ties To The Zimmermans...

[leveymg]

37. BS, like ABC's "enhanced" video. I wonder what Owen's fee is as an expert witness.

I listened to it, too. Repeatedly, with very good headphones on a computer with an excellent sound board. Zimmerman said "C--ns."

[ZombieHorde]

39. If I think "punks," then I hear "punks." If I think "coons," then I hear "coons."

My brain is playing tricks on me. I can't figure it out.

[nytemare]

43. So..he said "fucking punks"...

Earlier in the call, he referred to Martin as one of "these assholes" who are "always getting away". Then, he calls him one of his "fucking punks". This shows Zimmerman's state of mind when he made the call. He already had come to the conclusion that Martin had committed a crime, and he was loathe to allow Martin to get away with it. He was going to confront this kid who he perceived was committing some crime, even without evidence.

So, the "fucking punks" comment maybe doesn't show as much of an overt racism as if he said "fucking coons", however, Zimmerman had his mind made up when he saw a young black male that the kid was an asshole and a punk who was getting away. He wasn't going to have it.

I don't see how him calling him a punk as opposed to a coon makes him any less guilty.

[jade3000]

48. Exactly

Couldn't agree with you more. Either punks or coons, it's clear Zimmerman is pissed off and out to get somebody. That's why I hope the State of Florida moves forward with the case rather than the feds. If the feds, then it'll be a hate crime or civil rights, which means the whole focus will be on whether or it was coons or punks, how many times did Zimmerman report black males vs. others on calls to the police, etc. What the case should be about is HE CHASED and very soon after SHOT AND KILLED a teenager. What curse words Zimmerman used beforehand and whether or not Trayvon Martin was momentarily succeeding in defending himself are not relevant.

You can't tell the police you're chasing somebody at 7:14, get in fight with them at 7:16, shoot them dead at 7:17, and say shooting was the last resort to defend yourself (those are approximate times, I'm sure you can find more exact ones). It makes no sense. If it's Zimmerman screaming (which may never be known), then obviously he wasn't being choked or strangled and his head isn't that badly wounded, so how is shooting the last resort?

[nytemare]

56. Exactly...and regarding the scream for help...

This same expert said it was not Zimmerman calling for help. He compared Zimmerman's voice with the isolated screaming on the 911 calls, and said it was not Zimmerman. Here is a link to that story: http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/01/10963191-trayvon-martin-case-911-call-screams-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say


And on the timeline, at 7:15, the phone call with Martin's girlfriend went dead. This was just after she said she heard Zimmerman say "What are you doing here", and Martin say "What are you following me for?". The shot was a minute later at 7:16. So where in there did he have time to walk away? After he talked to Martin and asked him what he was doing there? At no time in Zimmerman's version did that interchange that the girlfriend discussed come in. He engaged Martin at 7:15, he initiated the contact, and the contact was continued until the gunshot, because you can hear Martin yelling for help the whole minute of 716 until the shot was fired. There was NO time in there for Zimmerman to disengage that contact and start to walk back to his car. He fucked up, and he had to come up with some way to imply that he felt he was in danger, so he made up a story.

[Incitatus]

50. +1

[Gore1FL]

46. I hear it both ways after multiple listens

Ultimately, it doesn't matter.

He could have sang the itsy bitsy spider and he would have still been the guy who pursued and shot a 17-year-old kid.

[Incitatus]

49. Whatever "These assholes always get away" is crystal clear and speaks volumes. nt

[magical thyme]

53. whether he said coons or goons or punks, what matters is

* he was armed in violation of express instructions from the neighborhood watch.
* he followed Trayvon against express request and instructions from both the SPD and the neighborhood watch.
* he was the aggressor and when Trayvon either stood his ground or ran away, and was crying for help, shot and killed him.


Maybe he is not a racist.
Maybe he is a racist who targeted blacks, but knew to wait for the 911 people to ask for race.
Maybe he got angry and lost it when the police requested he not follow.
Maybe he was delusional and thought that making a big bust would get him into the police force.

Any of the above seems possible, given his background and history.

Racism isn't clear until after the police arrive. Drug tested the victim, but not the killer? Failure to notify Trayvon's parents for 12 hours or so *after* they have his identity? Failure to follow up with key witnesses. Acceptance of Zimmerman's obvious lies without any investigation. And so on.

I simply want to see justice. Given the evidence we've seen with our own eyes and heard with our own ears, Zimmerman needs to be on trial for murder.

[joshcryer]

54. Bullshit. When he says 'coons' he lowers his tone even more.

The 'c' is silenced because of that. The 'oons' is still distinct.

[jade3000]

57. Suspicious that he lowers his voice

Just the fact that he lowers his voice makes me suspicious that he is saying a slur. I'm really not sure what he said, and I hope it's tried as murder, not a hate crime for that & other reasons. But the fact that he lowers his voice so that phone operator can't here him, suggests that he says something that he knows is wrong.

[slackmaster]

58. I keep hearing "cranberry sauce"

[marshall]

60. He may have perceived Trayvon as gay

Punk is a slur for gay. That would explain why Zimmerman has not stepped forward to defend himself. If his excuse is that he was gay bashing, he's just as guilty of profiling.

[MrBig]

61. Considering this is the same guy who said distinctly that it was Trayvon screaming for help

I tend to give the expert the benefit of the doubt. Honestly, all it does for me is prove that Zimmerman did not utter a racist word on the phone. Nothing more, nothing less.

Regardless of what Zimmerman actually said, a trial is still warranted.