Move To Amend: Corporations Are NOT People, My Friend
Source: Workers Independent News
By Doug Cunningham
[Richard S. Russell]: As far as we can tell theres like five old white guys on the Supreme Court are the only ones who really believe that corporations are people and so our objective as a movement is to get the U.S. Constitution amended to say that corporations are not people , money is not speech. The government may, in fact, regulate political spending.
Wisconsin Move To Amend volunteer Richard S. Russell. On this election day as real people cast their ballots they make their way to the polls through an avalanche of corporate money. Russell and his fellow activists at South Central Wisconsin Move To Amend are working to get a constitutional amendment that overturns Citizens United the U.S. Supreme Court decision giving corporations the same rights as people. Russell says it is a tall order, but it is doable.
[Richard S. Russell]: It is an ambitious agenda. We are under no illusions that its going to be easy. But we have tremendous public support behind it and we think that it can be done. We have fifteen or sixteen states which have already petitioned Congress to enact such an amendment. Now they havent all said exactly the same thing, and Wisconsin is not among those. But there is a groundswell of pressure from the citizens to do something about it.
The day after election day the Russell and others supporting Move To Amend will turn out for a Roaring 2000s themed friendraiser in Madison at the Speakeasy at Cargo Coffee East. Just so ya know, to get into the speakeasy youll need these code words: Corporations are not people, my friend.
Read more: http://laborradio.org/2014/11/move-to-amend-corporations-are-not-people-my-friend/
C Moon
(12,213 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)What load of shit.
Something needs to be done.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)They didn't say corporations are equal. Corporations like the 1% that own them are more than equal.
Yes, really, you should be careful how you even look at them, certainly don't look to closely.
Martin Eden
(12,870 posts)Sorry, but you're going to have to add some text if you want anyone to understand why the question in the title of your post is relevant to the OP.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)In 2017, President Cruz signs an executive order confiscating the property of a particular corporation, Democratic Underground LLC. DU's lawyers run to court. They point out that, under the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment, such a confiscation can't be done without due process of law (e.g., a fine imposed after a trial). The judge agrees and is about to nullify President Cruz's order, and probably award DU its attorney's fees because the government's position is so outrageous.
But wait! Here comes the Attorney General, Orly Taitz. She points out that, in 2016, the 38th state ratified a constitutional amendment declaring that corporations are not people. She further points out that the relevant passage in the Constitution reads, in pertinent part, " N)or shall any person ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law...." As a result of the success of Move To Amend, Democratic Underground LLC is no longer a person and is therefore no longer entitled to the protection of the Due Process Clause. The judge agrees with her. President Cruz's order stands.
Further elaborating: The Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment restricts the federal government. State governments are covered by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which also uses the word "person" in conveying rights. The decision in Democratic Underground LLC v. United States is (correctly) seen as license for right-wing state governments to abuse their powers in retaliating against corporations they don't like.
Now, with that context, I repeat my question. Should the government be able to take a corporation's property without due process of law?
Warning: This is a trick question. Beyond the issue of taking property, the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment is the vehicle for making the Bill of Rights applicable to the states. If the word "person" in the Constitution doesn't include a corporation, then states are also free to prohibit corporations from criticizing the Republican Party, they're free to send police in to search corporate property at will (we don't need no stinkin' warrant), etc.
Martin Eden
(12,870 posts)Do you think it's possible to craft a Constitutional Amendment that protects the property and legitimate business activities of a corporation while reforming our election laws so that only human beings can contribute to political campaigns?
Another question:
Prior to SCOTUS rulings which have subsequently been interpreted as corporate personhood, did the scenario you described occur on a regular basis -- with the government seizing corporate property at will and without legal recourse?
I'm not a legal scholar, but methinks a separation of corporation and personhood does not necessarily negate all legal protections for businesses.
melm00se
(4,993 posts)laws that are passed can be enforced for the purposes they were originally written but also stretched (sometimes beyond all recognition) fill a prosecutors need.
When passing a law or creating an amendment, one has to not only look at the situation you are trying to correct but also how it could be misused down the road.
Martin Eden
(12,870 posts)But that should not prevent the citizens of a Republic from amending laws that have permitted a thorough corruption of our electoral system which is transforming our country into a plutocracy.
melm00se
(4,993 posts)but amending the Constitution which has far deeper implications than changing laws.
Amending the Constitution should have difficult and convoluted so that foolish and short sighted changes are jammed thru that have to be undone (think 18th and 21st Amendments).
Martin Eden
(12,870 posts)And I purposefully used the word "amend" with that in mind.
I'm not really sure what your argument is, because you responded to a post in which I explicitly stated that all potential consequences must be considered. I don't think that can be construed as recommending changes that are "foolish and short sighted."
I think it is very likely the only way we can end the pernicious influence of money in our electoral process and prevent our represntative democracy being replaced by a plutocracy is via Constitutional Amendment. If that's off the table, the great experiment launched by our nation's Founders will end in failure. They established a process to amend the Constitution because they knew it would be necessary.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)You write:
I disagree. I think the most likely path is the one followed concerning child labor. During and after World War I, the Supreme Court struck down federal laws aimed at stopping child labor. There was widespread disagreement with this outcome. A constitutional amendment that would empower Congress to "to limit, regulate, and prohibit the labor of persons under eighteen years of age" was approved by the House and the Senate, and then ratified by several states. Before it was ratified by the necessary three-fourths of the states, though, the Supreme Court changed its position.
Unlike the ERA, the Child Labor Amendment wasn't sent to the states with any time limit on ratification. It's still pending. It will become part of the Constitution if enough additional states ratify it. There's no prospect of that, however, because it's a dead issue. Everyone agrees that child labor can be prohibited or regulated.
Amendment is such a cumbersome process that I think it will be very tough to use it to address campaign spending -- at worst impossible, at best a very long and difficult slog. What's more likely is that a future Supreme Court will decide, as the Court has done before (child labor, segregated schools, etc.), that its earlier decision was an error and should be overruled.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)Yes. The corporate personhood amendment is both too broad and too narrow. It's too broad because, as I pointed out, it allows abuse. It's too narrow because, triggered as it is by a focus on the ill effects of Citizens United, it ignores the ill effects of McCutcheon -- a later Supreme Court decision that voided spending limits as to individuals (i.e., "natural persons", the term sometimes used in the law to distinguish humans from corporations).
The solution is an amendment along the lines of what's gained considerable support in the Senate, though of course short of two-thirds. The amendment, which I think has a majority behind it, empowers the federal government and the states to impose reasonable regulations on spending on political campaigns.
People criticize the Supreme Court decisions because, the critics charge, money is not speech. The difficulty is that money is speech, but the spending is also conduct. Conduct can be regulated even if there's a damping effect on speech. For example, going into a courthouse wearing a jacket that says "Fuck the Draft" is protected speech, and the protester's criminal conviction was overturned on First Amendment grounds (Cohen v. California); but burning a draft card to protest the draft is conduct that can be punished, because the government (at a time of conscription) has a legitimate interest in requiring draft-age men to possess and carry a draft card (United States v. O'Brien). That's the basis on which Citizens United and McCutcheon should have been decided -- that campaign spending is conduct that can be regulated, just as draft-card burning can be, even though there's an expressive element. An amendment could establish that principle, as to spending by corporations and by individuals.
There was at least one famous case. I don't know about "regular basis" because it goes too far back.
Contrary to the view of some well-meaning but ill-informed progressives, Citizens United did not establish the doctrine of corporate personhood. It's much older than that. In fact, it's somewhat older even as to political spending. In First National Bank of Boston v. Bellotti (1978), the Supreme Court held that a Massachusetts law that restricted corporate donations in ballot initiatives was a violation of the First Amendment.
The earliest recognition of the concept, however, came in Trustees of Dartmouth College v. Woodward (1819). Dartmouth was a private college. The government of New Hampshire enacted a law that effectively placed it under public control, e.g. by reinstating a college president who had been controversially deposed and by creating a state board that could veto the decisions of the college's board of trustees. This would have overridden the college's charter. The state didn't outright confiscate all of the college's property, but did remove some corporate books and records. The Supreme Court held that this was unconstitutional. The decision emphasized the Contract Clause ("No State shall ... pass any ... Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts...." and treated the college's charter as a contract.
I'm not enough of a legal historian to know how common it was for state legislatures to attempt the kind of overreaching that was smacked down in Dartmouth College.
Dartmouth College had a pre-Revolutionary charter from King George III that was treated as being protected under the Contract Clause, but most contemporary corporations couldn't make that argument. Under the "corporate personhood" amendments being pushed by Move To Amend and others, those corporations would be vulnerable. I don't know whether an amendment would lead to a different result if, following ratification, New Hampshire again attempted to take over Dartmouth College.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)For example:
Insofar as it relates to freedom of speech, the First Amendment to this Constitution shall not apply to speech that is financed by corporations or other corporate entities and refers to candidates in Federal or State elections, within the six month period prior to such elections.
One side-effect is that this would allow Congress to ban the publication of books and newspapers that praise or are critical of election candidates. One could attempt to carve out exceptions, but then one question that could be asked is why does Rupert Murdoch have full free speech rights in the run-up to an election, but not the CEOs of most other corporations?
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)My point in #6 is that the principle we agree on, while part of the law now, would be overturned if Move To Amend were to succeed.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)That might or might not be a good idea, it all depends. Corporations, not being persons, and being fundamentally creatures of the law and the government, have no rights, only privileges granted by federal and state laws which create them. So the question would be: do corporations serve the public interest better in one way or the other? Before or after the change you mention. I have not looked into it, but I would assume "Move to Amend" thinks the answer is "After the change". You should argue against that: why it is better the way it is?
Personally I think "Persons" is the wrong word, if you replace "Persons" by "Citizens" you get the right sense, but you leave out non-citizens. Natural born persons would do the job though, I think. Persons who, if citizens, would be allowed to vote does the job too.
Regarding your point, I look at it like this, If Prez. Cruz does as you say, and AG Taitz does as you say, and so on, I'm willing to risk it.
You seem confused about the intent of the "Move to Amend" people, it precisely the aversive punishment of corporations they seek to provide for, I doubt that the losses of shareholders in such cases much concern them, and I can assure you they don't concern me. The notion of limited legal liability for shareholders needs to be looked at too. Profiting from corporate misbehavior is much too popular as it is.
Shareholders, being natural-born persons, have redress in the courts, such as it is, like everyone else. Under Prez. Cruz and AG Taitz I doubt that will be worth much. You can't expect a broken, fucked up political system to produce good results, whatever legal formalities one attempts to impose.
Jim Lane
(11,175 posts)You write, "If Prez. Cruz does as you say, and AG Taitz does as you say, and so on, I'm willing to risk it."
That's where we differ. I'm not.
I don't think Cruz will actually be President. I do think that there will be some right-wing Presidents in the future, and it's a certainty that there will be governors whom I abhor. The proposed personhood amendment would vastly expand the ability of such people to reward their friends and punish their enemies.
Also, as to whether they'll get elected in the first place -- eliminating corporate personhood wouldn't affect the ability of individuals, like the Koch brothers, to spend as much as they wanted in support of those candidates.
Omaha Steve
(99,659 posts)Jail board members and employees involved in the crimes.
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)Corporations do not come from vaginas.
Ergo, corporations are not people.
*ignoring c-sections
navarth
(5,927 posts)brush
(53,787 posts)As far as we can tell theres like five old white guys on the Supreme Court are the only ones who really believe that corporations are people . . ."
You're spot on on this, and as far as we can tell, Thomas follows Scalia's lead on everything, without question just as he is without questions to anyone who argues before the court.
candelista
(1,986 posts)Thomas is a right-wing black guy. So is Alan Keyes. There are others. That's their politics. I don't agree with them, but I don't insult them, either.
brush
(53,787 posts)The OP stated that there are 5 old white guys on the Supreme Court who believe that corporations are people.
Thomas is part of that voting block but is obviously not white even though he votes very much like the other old white guys in that voting block, thus the appellation "honorary white guy".
Calling someone a white guy is now racist? I don't agree.
Many call Bill Clinton the "first black president" and no one calls that racist.
candelista
(1,986 posts)Clarence Thomas does not believe corporations are people?
Quelle surprise!
Martin Eden
(12,870 posts)freebrew
(1,917 posts)when he declared "a government of the people, by the people and for the people.." now that statement holds up, right?