Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:04 PM Dec 2014

Judge won't release former Alabama Governor Siegelman on appeal bond

Last edited Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:16 PM - Edit history (2)

Source: Tuscaloosa News quoting Associated Press report

MONTGOMERY | A federal judge on Thursday refused to free former Alabama Gov. Don Siegelman from prison while he continues to appeal his 2006 bribery conviction.

Siegelman has raised significant issues, but the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals is unlikely to grant Siegelman a new trial since the court has already rejected similar arguments from his co-defendant, Richard Scrushy, U.S. District Judge Clay Land of Georgia said in his 31-page order.

Siegelman attended a Monday hearing in Montgomery before Land while shackled and wearing a red jail jumpsuit. The former Democratic governor is arguing his 2006 trial was tainted by the involvement of a prosecutor with ties to GOP politics. His lawyers also say the trial judge made legal mistakes when sentencing Siegelman.

Then-U.S. Attorney Leura Canary announced her recusal from the investigation in 2002, three years before Siegelman was indicted, after Siegelman's lawyer made an issue of her husband's work in GOP politics. Siegelman's lawyers argued she still remained improperly involved in the case.


Read more: http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20141218/NEWS/141219657?tc=cr



THIS IS BULL----- of the highest {dis}ORDER

There are several witnesses (and ex Karl Rove gal Jill Simpson);
who have testified that U.S. Attorney Canary faked her recusal.

[br][hr][br]

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#b0c4de"] [center]

[font color=Blue size=4 face="Comic Sans MS"][center]UPDATE -Link to Judge Land's 31 page Order[/font][/center]


[font size=3]https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1383048/siegelman-order.pdf [/font]
[/center][/width]
[br][hr][br]



[br][hr][br]

LINK Of Governor Siegelman's appeal to 11th Circuit - detailing U.S. Attorney Canary bad faith dealings.

http://media.al.com/wire/other/Siegelman%20appeal%20to11th%20Circuit.pdf

[br]
80 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Judge won't release former Alabama Governor Siegelman on appeal bond (Original Post) laserhaas Dec 2014 OP
Judge stated there were trial abuses evident. laserhaas Dec 2014 #1
This poor guy got railroaded big time. diabeticman Dec 2014 #2
Holy crap.... onecaliberal Dec 2014 #3
I cant get angrier than I am right now, Obama needs to pardon NOW NoJusticeNoPeace Dec 2014 #51
Cool moniker (of which I emphatically concur) laserhaas Dec 2014 #52
I'm a grown frigg'n 58 year old man - and I'm crying. laserhaas Dec 2014 #4
This is what can happen to any of us if we dare to go against the corrupt autoritarian corporate geretogo Dec 2014 #5
I know all too well "geretogo"...... laserhaas Dec 2014 #6
Wow, They are desparate to keep him under lock and key. blackspade Dec 2014 #7
He knows something that is probably the only thing keeping him in one piece laserhaas Dec 2014 #8
Why no POTUS pardon? Omaha Steve Dec 2014 #9
It would kick Rove and his gang - right in the f.... GUT laserhaas Dec 2014 #10
The prosecutors have worked for Eric Holder and Pres. Obama since 2009 madville Dec 2014 #16
+ 1000 red dog 1 Dec 2014 #59
Question is WHY? laserhaas Dec 2014 #63
That is absolute bull$hit. The federal prosecutor was appointed by Bush and is the primary problem okaawhatever Dec 2014 #69
He hasn't filled for a pardon. Although CT and ODS abound on this issue, the fact is that msanthrope Dec 2014 #18
Obama sent a White House attorney to interview Siegelman about a possible pardon okaawhatever Dec 2014 #68
Accepting a pardon is a de facto admission of guilt. NYC Liberal Dec 2014 #80
I'm distressed that Obama left him off of this year's pardon list bluestateguy Dec 2014 #11
Of course he's off the pardon list!!! He hasn't FILED for one! nt msanthrope Dec 2014 #20
WTH! he was shackled? KT2000 Dec 2014 #12
Yup. Judge left it up to the prosecutors, about the shackling. laserhaas Dec 2014 #13
The cesspool of corruption that defines southern politics is bottomless gregcrawford Dec 2014 #14
Corruption, the white/redneck ways - is a profession in Bam'ee laserhaas Dec 2014 #15
Oh, it has spread to the North. It's corruption from sea to shining sea. Enthusiast Dec 2014 #34
It sure is a sad state of affairs laserhaas Dec 2014 #54
How does the Obama-right-or-wrong gang explain this one? 99th_Monkey Dec 2014 #17
Um..he hasn't filed for a pardon, or a commutation. And if President Obama is gonna start msanthrope Dec 2014 #19
It's not like Obama has not been asked. 99th_Monkey Dec 2014 #23
Are you kidding me? The politically connected ex-Gov should be able to circumvent the pardon msanthrope Dec 2014 #24
A pardon can't be applied for until five years after release. former9thward Dec 2014 #25
The advocate is always a contrarian about anything Laser is for. laserhaas Dec 2014 #26
I don't agree with all your posts former9thward Dec 2014 #27
OOPs - whammy laser fell over backwards just now. laserhaas Dec 2014 #45
Happy Holidays to you. former9thward Dec 2014 #50
that,s kind of you laserhaas Dec 2014 #77
+10 good to know. Thanks. nt 99th_Monkey Dec 2014 #30
And he's completely wrong--as I demostrate in post 31, using his own links. nt msanthrope Dec 2014 #32
Laser....all any DUer on this board need do is run your username in the helpful box provided msanthrope Dec 2014 #33
Oh dear---your own link refutes you..... msanthrope Dec 2014 #31
Holder appears to disagree. deurbano Dec 2014 #36
Very helpful information. Thank you. 99th_Monkey Dec 2014 #40
As I've said before....the governor should and can fill out the paperwork. If and when he msanthrope Dec 2014 #48
Who did Cheney pardon? I thought he might wait until Bush was out for his Colonoscopy, when Cheney 24601 Dec 2014 #62
Or were you thinking of Bill Clinton and the Marc Rich Pardon? Here's link to information on Bill 24601 Dec 2014 #64
I know that you are a tool for bad faith interests laserhaas Dec 2014 #37
"the most exceptional circumstances" former9thward Dec 2014 #39
The Truth Need No Disguise (In re Hazel ATlas Glass v Hartford Empire U.S. Sup Ct. 1994) laserhaas Dec 2014 #42
I actually think Siegelman deserves review. And he's lucky enough, that unlike the vast majority of msanthrope Dec 2014 #46
Holder agrees president not bound by DOJ regs: “The president’s pardon power is close to absolute.” deurbano Dec 2014 #35
Correct - Just ask Nixon. laserhaas Dec 2014 #38
So you want President Obama to act like Gerry Ford? nt msanthrope Dec 2014 #49
Or Clinton, (Marc Rich) or George H. W. Bush (Cap Weinberger)... MADem Dec 2014 #75
And doesn't the party requesting pardon have to ADMIT GUILT?? I thought that was a piece of the MADem Dec 2014 #73
Yes, but the problem with Obama waiting until the end of his term former9thward Dec 2014 #74
The guy is pretty much screwed then--I don't think Obama will flout DOJ guidelines with 2 years left MADem Dec 2014 #76
That is a bunch of bull$hit. Obama sent a heavy hitter down to Alabama to interview Siegelman okaawhatever Dec 2014 #70
All this happened because Siegelman told the world that the 2002 election in Alabama was dirty Botany Dec 2014 #21
Bush's boys went after him on trumpt up charges project_bluebook Dec 2014 #22
Obscene.n/t Jefferson23 Dec 2014 #28
I wonder at what point many will accept Indydem Dec 2014 #29
Sniveling republicans loving this one. Kingofalldems Dec 2014 #41
Persecuted to the fullest extent of the law for the crime of being a successful DEMOCRAT. Octafish Dec 2014 #43
If Senator Warren runs for POTUS; it will get MUCH worse laserhaas Dec 2014 #44
Novel legal question (possibly) for the legal eagles among U.S. laserhaas Dec 2014 #47
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #53
Uhm, you do know that Siegalman is a Democrat. mentalsolstice Dec 2014 #55
I'm going to jump in and say that the sentencing seems excessive. nilesobek Dec 2014 #56
He's guilty of being a powerful Dem in a GOP world of power (that's losing control) laserhaas Dec 2014 #57
What a nightmare of torture. nilesobek Dec 2014 #58
It's a politico world. One has to wonder what the Administration gets laserhaas Dec 2014 #60
Obama Justice Department Asked Judge To INCREASE Siegelman's Sentence red dog 1 Dec 2014 #61
Holder is a Oligarch brown noser. Though it is good rids, don't except better from the lifer. laserhaas Dec 2014 #65
Holder and Elena Kagen were just following orders from their boss, President Barack Obama red dog 1 Dec 2014 #66
He would be out already if he had served the original sentence madville Dec 2014 #67
Did CBS News even mention this latest development? sketchy Dec 2014 #71
I said this the last time he got out while appealing, and I'll say it again.... MADem Dec 2014 #72
will advise his legal team. thanks. laserhaas Dec 2014 #78
It's Christmas time and Governor Siegelman is in jail - STILL! laserhaas Dec 2014 #79
 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
1. Judge stated there were trial abuses evident.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:09 PM
Dec 2014

Justice Land remarked that Siegelman was prevented from investigating (discovery) of Canary's interference's.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
52. Cool moniker (of which I emphatically concur)
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 06:40 PM
Dec 2014

Justice is a aberration in this country - most times.

Especially here.

geretogo

(1,281 posts)
5. This is what can happen to any of us if we dare to go against the corrupt autoritarian corporate
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:20 PM
Dec 2014

state .

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
6. I know all too well "geretogo"......
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:24 PM
Dec 2014

It's a miracle that I'm still in one piece and able to irk Mitt's crown.

This is BULL - over 100 current and former AG's are on the record stating this case is SO wrong!

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
8. He knows something that is probably the only thing keeping him in one piece
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:29 PM
Dec 2014

Manifest Injustice is when a U.S. Attorney can give false testimony;
and Judge's don't care - because other judge's Don't Care!

madville

(7,412 posts)
16. The prosecutors have worked for Eric Holder and Pres. Obama since 2009
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 03:24 PM
Dec 2014

They've been working to keep him in prison for over 5 years, why would they pardon him now?

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
63. Question is WHY?
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:07 PM
Dec 2014

What does he know?

How did he piss them off so?

Or - is it just KKK-bammy law - that Dems aren't allowed...

okaawhatever

(9,462 posts)
69. That is absolute bull$hit. The federal prosecutor was appointed by Bush and is the primary problem
Fri Dec 19, 2014, 12:02 AM
Dec 2014

with the initial court case. She lied about recusing herself (so the Siegelman attorneys claim, but are awaiting their day in court). The GOP have blocked every single attempt to replace Canary or any judges. They have too much to lose. Senator Shelby claims it is because he disagrees with the appointee, but they switched appointees and he still wouldn't release the hold on the nomination.

Also, Obama sent a White House attorney to interview Siegelman about a possible pardon. Obama sent a real heavy hitter (led the Clinton team during his impeachment, and represented John Hinckley). The attorney decided to take the case instead.

NOTE: SIEGELMAN HAS NOT APPLIED FOR A PARDON!!!!!

Stop the Obama bashing and learn the facts of the case.

http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/07/former_white_house_counsel_for.html

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
18. He hasn't filled for a pardon. Although CT and ODS abound on this issue, the fact is that
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 03:52 PM
Dec 2014

no pardon has been asked for.

okaawhatever

(9,462 posts)
68. Obama sent a White House attorney to interview Siegelman about a possible pardon
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:53 PM
Dec 2014

The attorney ended up taking on his case instead. The attorney seems like the LeBron James of attorneys.

In addition to working for Obama, Craig led the team of lawyers that defended President Clinton against impeachment in 1998. He was Sen. Edward Kennedy's senior adviser on defense, foreign policy and national security issues from 1984-1988. And in 1981-82, he represented John Hinckley Jr., who shot President Ronald Reagan and three other men in 1981 but was found not guilty by reason of insanity.

Gregory B. Craig, who was White House counsel from January 2009 to January 2010, visited Siegelman at the federal detention center in Oakdale, La., according to Siegelman's son, Joseph Siegelman, and Peter Sissman, who has worked on the former governor's case for four years.

Sissman said Craig's initial involvement in Siegelman's case concerned a possible request for executive clemency through a pardon or commutation. He said Craig's involvement grew after visiting Siegelman in prison.

"He became very interested in the rest of the case," Sissman said. "And he said, 'We'll take over the new trial motion part of the case if the Court of Appeals will give us an extra 60 days.' "


http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/07/former_white_house_counsel_for.html

A little cut and pasting on the above paragraphs but I think you can put the puzzle pieces together.
 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
13. Yup. Judge left it up to the prosecutors, about the shackling.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:55 PM
Dec 2014

Don't blame them (sort of) -----

I my group had put a man in prison falsely;
I'd worry the abused would want to choke me to death - too!

gregcrawford

(2,382 posts)
14. The cesspool of corruption that defines southern politics is bottomless
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 03:12 PM
Dec 2014

Which is not to say that northern politics are much better. Look at Christie and Cuomo. But railroading a governor on transparently trumped-up charges is repugnant, even by Alabama standards.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
15. Corruption, the white/redneck ways - is a profession in Bam'ee
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 03:19 PM
Dec 2014

If U.S. Attorneys can give false testimony to keep a Governor in jail;
then there's no such thing as Law and Justice.

Only, money, power and might makes RIGHT.

Who are (almost always) in the wrong...

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
34. Oh, it has spread to the North. It's corruption from sea to shining sea.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:46 PM
Dec 2014

This corruption is a reflection on every politician, law enforcement employee and judicial employee in the nation. They should be deeply ashamed. They have ruined the nation.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
17. How does the Obama-right-or-wrong gang explain this one?
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 03:42 PM
Dec 2014

The fact that Obama is refusing to commute or pardon Don Siegelman?

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
19. Um..he hasn't filed for a pardon, or a commutation. And if President Obama is gonna start
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 03:55 PM
Dec 2014

raining pardons from the sky, I've got a few names--people sentenced unjustly for their color--- who have been in for decades, can't afford private counsel, and don't have the funds to either mount expensive appeals, file for pardons, or get press coverage.

The Governor should do the paperwork. I wish him well.

 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
23. It's not like Obama has not been asked.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:07 PM
Dec 2014

Obama reportedly (in DailyKos) went "shoulder to shoulder" with GWBush
regarding Seigleman, and even pushed for a longer sentence.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/05/1097552/-Gov-Don-Siegelman-Facing-20-Years-Obama-Pushes-for-Long-Sentence

Here DS's own kids are pleading with Obama publicly to pardon their Dad
https://www.change.org/p/president-obama-please-restore-justice-and-pardon-my-dad

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
24. Are you kidding me? The politically connected ex-Gov should be able to circumvent the pardon
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:15 PM
Dec 2014

process because his kids write a petition?

A petition?

Currently, change.org is hosting a "Let's Deport Justin Beiber" petition, too. Should ICE get right on that?

As for Obama asking for a longer sentence, people who claim that only reveal how little they know of the courts. The Obama DOJ and the Bush DOJ asked for the same sentencing range...which is what ANY DOJ would do. Only an idiot completely unfamiliar with how sentencing works--like the Kos diary writer--would suggest that Obama asked for "20 years more."

Ironically--Siegelman benefitted from Jeffrey Skilling. Wanna talk about how that happened?

former9thward

(32,025 posts)
25. A pardon can't be applied for until five years after release.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:31 PM
Dec 2014
Under the Department's rules governing petitions for executive clemency, an applicant must satisfy a minimum waiting period of five years before he becomes eligible to apply for a presidential pardon of his federal conviction. The waiting period begins to run on the date of the petitioner's release from confinement. Alternatively, if the conviction resulted in a sentence that did not include any form of confinement, the waiting period begins on the date of sentencing.

http://www.justice.gov/pardon/forms.htm

So let's stop with "he hasn't asked for a pardon" nonsense.

He can apply for a commutation of a sentence. However:

4. Completion of court challenges

A request for a commutation of a prison sentence generally is not accepted unless and until a person has begun serving that sentence. In addition, a commutation request generally is not accepted from a person who is currently challenging his or her conviction or sentence through appeal or other court proceeding. Accordingly, you should not complete and submit this petition until you have concluded all judicial challenges to your conviction and sentence and you have begun serving your sentence. You should also be aware that, in evaluating the merits of a commutation petition, clemency authorities take into consideration the amount of time the petitioner has already served and the availability of other remedies to secure the relief sought (such as parole or judicial action).

http://www.justice.gov/pardon/commutation_instructions.htm

Siegelman is still in appeals so he can't apply. There is nothing stopping Obama from granting either a pardon or commutation on his own. That is his Constitutional right which is not allowed to be impeded or questioned.

Every time there is a thread on this you come in to provide cover for Obama by saying there has been no application. Now other posters will see what you are doing.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
26. The advocate is always a contrarian about anything Laser is for.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:33 PM
Dec 2014

Give it no mind - the Governor has a great legal team - who knows what they are doing.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
45. OOPs - whammy laser fell over backwards just now.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 06:06 PM
Dec 2014

That's okay -

your agree afflict will pass soon

I'm sure


Meantime - HAPPY HOLIDAYS! (or did I just misspeak again - oops)

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
33. Laser....all any DUer on this board need do is run your username in the helpful box provided
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:44 PM
Dec 2014

by admin along with the term "vexatious litigant." I am not so much contrary to you as I am contemptuous of your court filings, although not you as a person.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
31. Oh dear---your own link refutes you.....
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:41 PM
Dec 2014

1) You can apply for waiver of the time. Interestingly, you forgot to include that paragraph. Why?

FROM YOUR OWN LINK--


A waiver of any portion of the waiting period is rarely granted and then only in the most exceptional circumstances. In order to request a waiver, you must complete the pardon application form and submit it with a letter explaining why you believe the waiting period should be waived in your case.


2) As for commutation,

a) nothing prevents Siegelman from submitting now---"generally is not accepted" means that some are, if the circumstances require it, and

b) nothing prevents Sigelman from dropping his appeals.


Do me a favor.....the next time you give me DOJ links, remember that I am a criminal defense attorney who has actually done this work.

deurbano

(2,895 posts)
36. Holder appears to disagree.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 05:08 PM
Dec 2014


http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/05/tennessee_congressman_to_ag_er.html
By George Talbot | gtalbot@al.com
on May 22, 2013

WASHINGTON - U.S. Rep. Steve Cohen, D-Tenn., is calling on the Obama administration to free former Alabama Gov. Don Siegelman from prison…

....Cohen, a lawyer from Memphis, made a direct appeal to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder during a House Judiciary Committee hearing on May 15. Cohen noted that 113 former state attorneys general and Vice President Joe Biden support Siegelman's bid for freedom.

“The president could pardon him now,” Cohen said to Holder, urging him to review the case.
Holder responded that Siegelman was not eligible to apply for a pardon because he’s currently serving his sentence, and a commutation was not possible because he has an appeal.

“There are procedural issues,” Holder said. “Those are obviously problematic in regards to the relief you are seeking.”

Cohen replied that president was not bound by Justice Department regulations, prompting Holder to agree: “The president’s pardon power is close to absolute.”
 

99th_Monkey

(19,326 posts)
40. Very helpful information. Thank you.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 05:14 PM
Dec 2014

Not sure if Holder is telling the truth, but it's good to know what Team Obama's account of
why they are not pardoning Don Seigelman.

What a FUBAR mess his case has become.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
48. As I've said before....the governor should and can fill out the paperwork. If and when he
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 06:20 PM
Dec 2014

does, his case should be reviewed.

Unless, of course, you want President Obama to pull a Dick Cheney?

Frankly...if President Obama is going to start raining down pardons from the sky, there are hundreds upon hundreds of people who are in prison, unjustly sentenced for their color, who lack attorneys, money, and publicity.

24601

(3,962 posts)
62. Who did Cheney pardon? I thought he might wait until Bush was out for his Colonoscopy, when Cheney
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:05 PM
Dec 2014

had all presidential powers and was, per the 25th Amendment, "acting President", and use the opportunity to pardon Scooter Libby. But he didn't. They made no secret over their disagreement in the Libby case - so I've wondered why Cheney didn't use the power he held briefly.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
37. I know that you are a tool for bad faith interests
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 05:09 PM
Dec 2014

And only care to destroy the truth n justice in quasi legal (Color of Law) ways

former9thward

(32,025 posts)
39. "the most exceptional circumstances"
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 05:11 PM
Dec 2014

Which is bureaucratic speak for never.

Nothing prevents Siegleman from dropping appeals. Well I guess you would have been happy if he just plead guilty and be done with it. It would have saved everyone so much trouble.

I know you claim to be a defense attorney. But judging from the content of your posts I would steer people away from you if I could.

Posters can read the requirements I posted and they can read your posts. They will know what the truth is despite your constant attempts to provide cover for Obama's inaction on this case.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
42. The Truth Need No Disguise (In re Hazel ATlas Glass v Hartford Empire U.S. Sup Ct. 1994)
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 05:28 PM
Dec 2014

Drives me nuts too - but you can't take it personal - when ebol persons rock the boat.

Just hang on to friends and life preservers (in these cases the truth)

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
46. I actually think Siegelman deserves review. And he's lucky enough, that unlike the vast majority of
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 06:15 PM
Dec 2014

federal prisoners.....he has the money and lawyers to foment appeals, pardons, and publicity. The fact is that President Obama cannot--and should not interfere in another branch of government.

deurbano

(2,895 posts)
35. Holder agrees president not bound by DOJ regs: “The president’s pardon power is close to absolute.”
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 05:05 PM
Dec 2014

http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/05/tennessee_congressman_to_ag_er.html
By George Talbot | gtalbot@al.com
on May 22, 2013

WASHINGTON - U.S. Rep. Steve Cohen, D-Tenn., is calling on the Obama administration to free former Alabama Gov. Don Siegelman from prison…

... “He got railroaded,” Cohen said in an interview this week, claiming that Siegelman’s conviction was the result of Republican operatives trying to block him from a second term. “Each day he stays in prison is a grave injustice.”

Cohen, a lawyer from Memphis, made a direct appeal to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder during a House Judiciary Committee hearing on May 15. Cohen noted that 113 former state attorneys general and Vice President Joe Biden support Siegelman's bid for freedom.

“The president could pardon him now,” Cohen said to Holder, urging him to review the case.
Holder responded that Siegelman was not eligible to apply for a pardon because he’s currently serving his sentence, and a commutation was not possible because he has an appeal.

“There are procedural issues,” Holder said. “Those are obviously problematic in regards to the relief you are seeking.”

Cohen replied that president was not bound by Justice Department regulations, prompting Holder to agree: “The president’s pardon power is close to absolute.”
 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
38. Correct - Just ask Nixon.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 05:10 PM
Dec 2014

By the way -

it is a quaint note that Nixon is the one who signed the 1970 RICO Act into law.

Ironic

or

Sardonic

MADem

(135,425 posts)
75. Or Clinton, (Marc Rich) or George H. W. Bush (Cap Weinberger)...
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 01:01 PM
Dec 2014

Or FORD...who pardoned Nixon.

But then you go on and have a look at the specifics of those pardons, and you will notice that:

Nixon was on his way out the door via resignation to escape impeachment.

Clinton had finished up his two terms, and was on his way out the door when he dropped that Rich bomb.

GHWB pardoned Cap Weinberger after he failed to win re-election, and after Cap threatened to take him down with him.

Ford pardoned Nixon...and that was the END of his political career.

No President does a "WTF--Jesus, man, that was POLITICAL!!!!" pardon (even one that would appear justified to those on the President's team) unless they are on their way OUT the door. These are 11th Hour events. No one pardons cases with political overtones if they have to hang around and take the heat.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
73. And doesn't the party requesting pardon have to ADMIT GUILT?? I thought that was a piece of the
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 12:50 PM
Dec 2014

pie....? Not that it can't ever happen, but the bar is high....

Yep....here it is: http://www.justice.gov/pardon/petitions.htm

(A document that belongs to We, The People, thus no copyright limitations...)


In general, a pardon is granted on the basis of the petitioner's demonstrated good conduct for a substantial period of time after conviction and service of sentence. The Department's regulations require a petitioner to wait a period of at least five years after conviction or release from confinement (whichever is later) before filing a pardon application (28 C.F.R. § 1.2). In determining whether a particular petitioner should be recommended for a pardon, the following are the principal factors taken into account.

1. Post-conviction conduct, character, and reputation.

An individual's demonstrated ability to lead a responsible and productive life for a significant period after conviction or release from confinement is strong evidence of rehabilitation and worthiness for pardon. The background investigation customarily conducted by the FBI in pardon cases focuses on the petitioner's financial and employment stability, responsibility toward family, reputation in the community, participation in community service, charitable or other meritorious activities and, if applicable, military record. In assessing post-conviction accomplishments, each petitioner's life circumstances are considered in their totality: it may not be appropriate or realistic to expect "extraordinary" post-conviction achievements from individuals who are less fortunately situated in terms of cultural, educational, or economic background.

2. Seriousness and relative recentness of the offense.

When an offense is very serious (e.g., a violent crime, major drug trafficking, breach of public trust, or white collar fraud involving substantial sums of money), a suitable length of time should have elapsed in order to avoid denigrating the seriousness of the offense or undermining the deterrent effect of the conviction. In the case of a prominent individual or notorious crime, the likely effect of a pardon on law enforcement interests or upon the general public should be taken into account. Victim impact may also be a relevant consideration. When an offense is very old and relatively minor, the equities may weigh more heavily in favor of forgiveness, provided the petitioner is otherwise a suitable candidate for pardon.

3. Acceptance of responsibility, remorse, and atonement.

The extent to which a petitioner has accepted responsibility for his or her criminal conduct and made restitution to its victims are important considerations. A petitioner should be genuinely desirous of forgiveness rather than vindication. While the absence of expressions of remorse should not preclude favorable consideration, a petitioner's attempt to minimize or rationalize culpability does not advance the case for pardon. In this regard, statements made in mitigation (e.g., "everybody was doing it," or "I didn't realize it was illegal&quot should be judged in context. Persons seeking a pardon on grounds of innocence or miscarriage of justice bear a formidable burden of persuasion.

4. Need for relief.

The purpose for which pardon is sought may influence disposition of the petition. A felony conviction may result in a wide variety of legal disabilities under state or federal law, some of which can provide persuasive grounds for recommending a pardon. For example, a specific employment-related need for pardon, such as removal of a bar to licensure or bonding, may make an otherwise marginal case sufficiently compelling to warrant a grant in aid of the individual's continuing rehabilitation. On the other hand, the absence of a specific need should not be held against an otherwise deserving applicant, who may understandably be motivated solely by a strong personal desire for a sign of forgiveness.

5. Official recommendations and reports.

The comments and recommendations of concerned and knowledgeable officials, particularly the United States Attorney whose office prosecuted the case and the sentencing judge, are carefully considered. The likely impact of favorable action in the district or nationally, particularly on current law enforcement priorities, will always be relevant to the President's decision. Apart from their significance to the individuals who seek them, pardons can play an important part in defining and furthering the rehabilitative goals of the criminal justice system.


The truth of the matter, though, is Obama can do whatever the f0000ck Obama wants, when it comes to pardons. They are HIS prerogative. That said, Congress and the public can make his life MISERABLE if he doesn't jump through the DOJ guidelines to offer pardons.

Remember Marc Rich? There's a reason why Clinton pardoned him at the 11th hour. Remember Cap Weinberger? There's a reason GHWBush pardoned HIM ("If I go down, I'm taking you bastards with me" or words to that effect) at the 11th hour. The pardons that will bring a world of shit on a President are always done at the end of the 2nd term--or after one has lost re-election to a 2nd term!!

former9thward

(32,025 posts)
74. Yes, but the problem with Obama waiting until the end of his term
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 01:00 PM
Dec 2014

is that in another 2 years I believe Siegelman will almost be at the end of his sentence. And in a prison atmosphere you never know what can happen in that 2 year period.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
76. The guy is pretty much screwed then--I don't think Obama will flout DOJ guidelines with 2 years left
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 02:38 PM
Dec 2014

to go. He COULD, but I doubt he would.

Also, since Siegelman hasn't asked for a pardon, I don't see Obama reaching out and giving him something he hasn't requested.

I will say that if Siegelman manages to convince a judge to let him out while he appeals, he should ask for house arrest w/ankle bracelet, so that time could be added towards his jail time if the appeal doesn't work out. He should have done that the first time around--he'd be that much closer to getting out and suing civilly if he'd have made that happen.

I should think, given the focus on him, that it is incumbent on his jailers to ensure his safety. He's in a country club, low security federal prison, closer to a dorm than a jail, not a "hard time" institution, and right now the chief law enforcement officer in the land is a Democrat. I don't think he has too much to worry about.

Here's where he's living, these days: http://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/oad/

Congressman Jefferson, that Fastow guy from Enron, and that Worldcom crook are also residents there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Correctional_Institution,_Oakdale



okaawhatever

(9,462 posts)
70. That is a bunch of bull$hit. Obama sent a heavy hitter down to Alabama to interview Siegelman
Fri Dec 19, 2014, 12:07 AM
Dec 2014

about a possible commutation/pardon. That attorney ended up taking over Siegelman's defense. But everything was waiting on the appeal process. Most thought he'd be granted a new trail.

SIEGELMAN HASN'T APPLIED FOR COMMUTATION OR PARDON, REMEMBER THAT. A NEW TRIAL WILL BRING OUT ALL SORTS OF REPUBLICAN UGLINESS. THAT MAY BE WHAT SIEGELMAN WANTS.

Botany

(70,516 posts)
21. All this happened because Siegelman told the world that the 2002 election in Alabama was dirty
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:03 PM
Dec 2014

Siegelman did not do anything that 2 previous Governors had done ....
if i remember the case he appointed somebody to a board where the
board members are not paid.

 

project_bluebook

(411 posts)
22. Bush's boys went after him on trumpt up charges
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:06 PM
Dec 2014

He should have just tortured someone, he would have gotten away with that.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
43. Persecuted to the fullest extent of the law for the crime of being a successful DEMOCRAT.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 05:56 PM
Dec 2014

When more than 100 state Attorney Generals -- including a bunch of Republicans -- agree he was railroaded, there's a problem. Hearing he appeared in a red jump suit and shackled shows what kind of a nation this has become, a police state in service of the connected cronies of Karl Rove.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
44. If Senator Warren runs for POTUS; it will get MUCH worse
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 06:01 PM
Dec 2014

Cause the bad guys can't exist and do ebol deeds, if good guys/gals are in office.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
47. Novel legal question (possibly) for the legal eagles among U.S.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 06:17 PM
Dec 2014

Can Obstruction of Justice be juxtaposed?

U.S. Attorney Canary "declared" she had nothing to do with Siegelman's case - after her recusal.

Can her falsity, once documented, be declared Obstruction; due to blocking Riley/Rove collusion to rig electoral processes?

Response to laserhaas (Original post)

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
56. I'm going to jump in and say that the sentencing seems excessive.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 07:13 PM
Dec 2014

That's a helluva long time in prison for a non violent crime even if he is guilty. Mercy.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
57. He's guilty of being a powerful Dem in a GOP world of power (that's losing control)
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 07:23 PM
Dec 2014

1 day was TOO extensive a sentence;
but they mean it to be a LIFE one (ya dig)...

nilesobek

(1,423 posts)
58. What a nightmare of torture.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 07:28 PM
Dec 2014

Even if you took a bribe wow. With all the corruption in politics what makes this guy's case so egregious that he needs such a harsh long sentence? The only humane thing to do is pardon him.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
60. It's a politico world. One has to wonder what the Administration gets
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 07:34 PM
Dec 2014

for letting Siegelman's case stay en lame....

red dog 1

(27,820 posts)
61. Obama Justice Department Asked Judge To INCREASE Siegelman's Sentence
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 07:49 PM
Dec 2014

"In 2009, the Obama Justice Department requested that Judge Fuller sentence Siegelman to 20 more years in prison when his appeals were concluded.
The new administration stood shoulder-to-shoulder with it's Bush predecessors in continuing the frame-up and cover-up."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025113875/

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
65. Holder is a Oligarch brown noser. Though it is good rids, don't except better from the lifer.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:14 PM
Dec 2014

Just wish we knew what is REALLY going on here.....

red dog 1

(27,820 posts)
66. Holder and Elena Kagen were just following orders from their boss, President Barack Obama
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:59 PM
Dec 2014

If you want to know "what is REALLY going on here", you'll have to ask President Obama

Meanwhile, anyone who wants to sign the petition to Obama to free Don Siegelman or wants to help out in any way can go to the website set up by Don's daughter;
http://www.donsiegelman.org/

madville

(7,412 posts)
67. He would be out already if he had served the original sentence
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 10:30 PM
Dec 2014

I know he wants to be vindicated but it's just weird that's it's already been that long ago, he was originally sentenced to 7 years in 2006 but didn't actually start the time until his appeal failed in 2009.

sketchy

(458 posts)
71. Did CBS News even mention this latest development?
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 11:09 AM
Dec 2014

I don't watch their evening news show anymore, so I'm wondering if anyone saw anything from them. Given that they had that 60 Minutes piece on him, one would think they would at least follow up.

I don't think any of the big three networks mentioned it at all.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
72. I said this the last time he got out while appealing, and I'll say it again....
Sat Dec 20, 2014, 12:36 PM
Dec 2014

He should ask the damn judge for HOUSE ARREST--an ankle bracelet, a la Martha Stewart. That way, if things don't go well, his lawyers can petition that his ankle bracelet time count as "time served."

It may not be fun having to answer a phone periodically and limit one's travel, but it's better than doing a bit in stir. At least he can sleep in his own bed and cook himself up a snack if he's hungry, and enjoy a tv program when he feels like it.

 

laserhaas

(7,805 posts)
79. It's Christmas time and Governor Siegelman is in jail - STILL!
Tue Dec 23, 2014, 12:00 PM
Dec 2014

Justice is a concept that endures only through the temerity & tenacity of good people.

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Judge won't release forme...