The Dying Russians: 50 years of hopelessness takes its toll

[uhnope]

A longish but good read. No wonder Putin wants parts of the USSR back, his own country is killing itself. And not just since the 1990s but since the 1960s. No easy answers, no obvious causes, except the hazy issue of no hope:
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2014/sep/02/dying-russians/

[geek tragedy]

1. Shocking:

According to 2006 figures, he writes, “overall life expectancy at age fifteen in the Russian Federation appears in fact to be lower than for some of the countries the UN designates to be least developed (as opposed to less developed), among these, Bangladesh, Cambodia, and Yemen.” Male life expectancy at age fifteen in Russia compares unfavorably to that in Ethiopia, Gambia, and Somalia.

[DamnYankeeInHouston]

2. Excellent read. Thank you for sharing.

[Fumesucker]

3. Indeed, hopelessness takes a toll...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/21/us/life-expectancy-for-less-educated-whites-in-us-is-shrinking.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Life Spans Shrink for Least-Educated Whites in the U.S.
By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: September 20, 2012

<snip>

The steepest declines were for white women without a high school diploma, who lost five years of life between 1990 and 2008, said S. Jay Olshansky, a public health professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago and the lead investigator on the study, published last month in Health Affairs. By 2008, life expectancy for black women without a high school diploma had surpassed that of white women of the same education level, the study found.

White men lacking a high school diploma lost three years of life. Life expectancy for both blacks and Hispanics of the same education level rose, the data showed. But blacks over all do not live as long as whites, while Hispanics live longer than both whites and blacks.

“We’re used to looking at groups and complaining that their mortality rates haven’t improved fast enough, but to actually go backward is deeply troubling,” said John G. Haaga, head of the Population and Social Processes Branch of the National Institute on Aging, who was not involved in the new study.

The five-year decline for white women rivals the catastrophic seven-year drop for Russian men in the years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, said Michael Marmot, director of the Institute of Health Equity in London.

<snip>

[newthinking]

5. U.S. Women Are Dying Younger Than Their Mothers, and No One Knows Why

There things are complicated. But we have our own issues to deal with. There is a good chance that in 20 years women in Russia could end up with higher lifespans than in the USA. Best we concentrate on our own issues, which we have a better chance of understanding.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/10/us-women-are-dying-younger-than-their-mothers-and-no-one-knows-why/280259/

[Igel]

7. With a few differences.

One group is large, one is small. One has a large effect on society; the other a smaller effect.

One group is born that way; the other is essentially self-selected--most high school drop outs do so not because they must, but because they believe they must in order to get something or avoid something. Often that "something" is digging out from a mess that they made over the course of years. (The occasional counterexamples are nice for piquancy, but they're not the majority.)

The status of one group is determinate and fairly fixed; the status of the other is alterable.

The context is as important as the data.

[Fumesucker]

8. America is not Lake Wobegon

Neither is any other country, all the children are not above average.

Yet in much of the rest of the developed world you don't see the phenomenon of entire portions of the population losing life span by leaps and bounds.

Another example of American exceptionalism I suppose.

[newthinking]

4. Terribly poor and unfactual analysis. Hate to butt into this confirmation bias...... but

Seriously? The author basically concludes that Russians are "Dying of hopelessness"? And people take that as accurate?

Russia is a complex place just as the US and it's problems (and promise) unfortunately don't fit neatly into a simple prescription.

For some actual FACTS:

The fact is that outside of 2012 Life Expectancy has been rising since 2000 (after the terrible 90s depression there).


Yes alcohol is still a problem but it is telling how many stories still talk about Vodka being the primary killer based on a single study that that studied males from 3 south-eastern cities all in close proximity and generated completely unscientific press. No doubt vodka is still killing men, but the younger generations are drinking far less and that will eventually have an effect. Attitudes have been slowly changing.


**Cardiovascular disease is the leading cause of death in Russia (like it is in much of the world). They still have a very high fat diet and there is work to do in educating the population on heart disease and modern treatment options (and away from old myths toward diet).

This is a *much* better read

http://www.who.int/countryfocus/cooperation_strategy/ccsbrief_rus_en.pdf

[JI7]

6. during the anti war rallies in 2003 russia

Was one place which didn't get many people to come out.

And the article I remember reading was similar to this in that many Russians seemed to be having a tough time just living.

It was depressing to read.

[RobertEarl]

9. Radiation? Ya think?

Chernobyl and all the previous nuclear pollution from waste dumping, atmospheric testing, etc.?

[uhnope]

10. Cernobyl got lots of other countries where this dying-off phenom is not happening

[RobertEarl]

11. You sure?

Thing is Russia had lots of nuclear testing and they were very sloppy with the pollution from all the nuke stuff.

As to whether population declines have occurred in other places near Chernobyl, I'd sure like to see the data. We do know Japan has leveled off in the population growth and they had 50 some odd nuke plants there, spewing a lot of radioactive materials even before Fukushima blew sky-high.

So two countries with lots of nukes have pop declines, and Germany has begun shutting down their nukes. Think Germany knows the score when it comes to nukes?

[uhnope]

12. in terms of nuclear testing, you could be right

in terms of Russia being saturated. However parts of the US were saturated at past points in history (members of my family were downwinders in Nevada) without this comparable die-off, which the article doesn't describe as being connected to radiation but more involving heart attacks, strokes, poisonings, accidents and other injuries.

Obviously Czech Republic and Germany all got Cernobyl fallout and the reactor meltdown happened in Ukraine on the border of Belarus, but this die-off phenomenon is not happening in those places at the alarming rate it is happening in Russia.

So it's hard to attribute it to nukes.

[JI7]

13. chernobyl was in ukraine

[RobertEarl]

14. And the wind blows which way?

Wind blows mostly to the east. East from Chernobyl is Russian lands.

And of course, Russia is sure not going to let everyone know their nuke mistakes are killing people.