How the Hell We Got Here: Why the Democratic Party is Splitting

[pmorlan1]

By Walker Bragman | May 18, 2016 | 2:10pm
Photos courtesy of Getty

Last July I wrote an article titled “The Republican Party is in Shambles” for the Huffington Post. That piece was to be a turning point for me. Up until then I had spent most of my energy writing about the GOP, electoral strategy, realignments, and policy. When Donald Trump became the Republican front-runner I realized that the real race for president was the Democratic primary, and so I shifted focus. In other words, the 2016 presidential election was the Democrats to lose. To my dismay, that is exactly what they’re doing.

Right now, the Democratic Party is on the verge of nominating a candidate who would be the least popular presidential nominee since David Duke if not for her rival on the Republican side. It is about to run a candidate who, despite claims to the contrary, is currently being investigated by the FBI, and who, by all rights, would be at home as a Republican if not for some social issues. In a year of outsider insurgency, Democrats are about to rally behind the candidate who most exemplifies the political establishment, save for the fact that Hillary Clinton is not a white man. They’re about to stake the future on someone most people associate with the word “dishonest,” and who polls show is the weaker candidate; someone who is almost certain to lose her reelection bid in 2020 — a Census year in which down-ballot voting is essential if the Democrats want a chance to retake the House of Representatives before 2031. The establishment of the party has seemingly done all it can to guarantee this outcome.

The primary itself has reached fever pitch, with alleged and not-so-alleged incidents of violence cropping up. The ‘Bernie Or Bust’ Movement has grown so large it threatens Clinton’s victory in a close November race (if she is to be the nominee). The Democratic Party has unwittingly revived an old fault line in left wing politics between social and economic progressives, and is splitting as a result. Disunity could actually put Donald Trump in the White House.

How the hell did we get here?

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/05/how-the-hell-we-got-here-why-the-democratic-party.html

This is a rather long piece but a great read!

[NewImproved Deal]

1. Thanks! This section on the Clinton Machine's Media domination is worth re-posting:

"The Clintons also established financial ties with many individuals in the media including Chris Matthews (indirectly), Stephanie Cutter, Maria Cardona, Sara Fagen, Hari Sevugan, and Lynda Tran. Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos, who purchased The Washington Post in 2013, made millions as a result of a government contract through the State Department while Clinton was Secretary. Former right wing political hitman David Brock, who runs several pro-Clinton super PACs that coordinate directly with the campaign, purchased Blue Nation Review. CNN too has financial ties to the Clintons. It is owned by Time Warner, one of the former Secretary’s largest career donors. Similarly, Comcast which owns MSNBC, is another big Clinton donor. David Cohen, Comcast’s executive vice president even threw her a fundraiser..."

[link:|

[bbgrunt]

36. The drumbeats for the Iraq war seem so familiar now....just like the coronation drumbeats.

[Betty Karlson]

41. The pattern is indeed repeatedly discernable. eom

[McKim]

126. Excellent Post

Yes, the drumbeat and the circling of the wagons for the Corps. and the Washington Consensus is very obvious. The media gets more and more transparent, lying and manipulative every day. The nice smiley face is now off of the media, our govt. and the establishment. They can really fight when they are threatened.

[certainot]

95. nothing compared with this

at a cheap $1000/hr x 15hrs/day x 1200 stations, rw talk radio is worth 4.68 BIL$/ year or 390MIL$ /month FREE for coordinated global warming denial, pro republican wall st think tank propaganda, free market deregulation bullshit, swiftboating, and the hate and fear used to get people to vote republican.

while the 'left' continues to blame their reps for not sticking their necks out far enough they continue the biggest political mistake in history - ignoring that simple math for 25 years

[onehandle]

2. Didn't split in 2008. Won't split in 2016.

The split lie is a tool of the MSM and Democrat haters.

[pmorlan1]

4. I disagree

That's because we had 2 corporate candidates. That's not the case this time.

[onehandle]

7. This time we have a Democrat and an 'also ran.'

The also ran's big crowds were insignificant compared to the millions of voters that voted for the Democrat.

[kaleckim]

26. What drivel

She won the vote of those, like yourself, that live in a bubble and have spent this election cycle sticking their heads in the sand. She's now tied with the most unpopular nominee in polling history, is not trusted or liked and may be indicted by the freaking FBI. She is the worst and weakest candidate her party could have nominated. If the Democratic Party were actually democratic and completely opened their elections to independents, and if they were truly neutral and didn't show clear and obvious bias this entire election cycle, she'd be toast. She will probably eek by Sanders by the skin of her teeth, despite her massive advantage in name recognition, corporate cash, establishment support and the clear and obvious DNC bias towards her. It's taken literally everything the corrupt establishment has to get her past the formerly little known democratic socialist, someone that began the race 60 points down, and it won't save her in the GE. She won for a long time on her "electability" and it was always nonsense and lacking in fact. The most electable candidate is on the way to losing the Democratic nomination. Corruption, hawkishness and a center-right economic record has won the Democratic Party, big shock. The most progressive candidate in the race, Sanders, has far more support from the general public than the "progressive" Democratic Party, which is telling and sad.

[pmorlan1]

42. Excellent

I agree wholeheartedly!

[Duval]

89. Very sad.

I also agree.

[leftofcool]

53. You keep waiting for that indictment fairy. Sorry, she isn't coming.

3 million more votes, 300 more pledged delegates. Do the math.

[AlbertCat]

71. Do the math.

Oh... if it were only about math and winning....


But it's not. Something Hillarybro's don't seem to begin to understand.

[leftofcool]

76. Like I said, do the math. Hillary will be the nominee.

[weknowvino2]

80. And She will LOSE the election to Trump.

Such a sad state of affairs.

[lark]

86. Praying this isn't so.

Praying that our country will have an infusion of sanity when they realize what a total liar and narcissistic asshole Drumpf is. Voting for him could have the same impact as voting for Hitler did, total devastation to our country, and way too many innocents dying for no reason other than to enrich him and the 1% MIC.

[leftofcool]

130. You really should check your Demographics

[frylock]

112. Fewer than 12 Federal Agents currently investigating her.

#HillMath

[nvme]

131. Thank you

I am glad I voted for Bman. I will enthusiastically support Hillary if she is the nominee. I see many of her points and I appreciate Bernie for influencing the dialog. I hope its is D in the Whitehouse next year at this time.

[RKP5637]

55. K&R! n/t

[onehandle]

63. You know me so well. nt

[TIME TO PANIC]

70. + 1,000,000 n/t

[Worldly Traveler]

84. Agree

Unless the super delegates suddenly wake up and realize they do not want to lose to Trump. Her name recognition is no longer enough, because now it is associated with the facts, "Corruption, hawkishness and a center-right economic record" and a FBI criminal investigation. The Party needs Sanders as the nominee if they want to win in the general. If they are not smart enough to realize that, I do not think they deserve to remain a national Party. Where are the Whigs today?

[certainot]

96. the left is stupid to expect the sanders warrens and wellstones to

become the norm as long as they continue the biggest political mistake in history.

ignoring this simple math for 25 years:

at a cheap $1000/hr x 15hrs/day x 1200 stations, rw talk radio is worth 4.68 BIL$/ year or 390MIL$ /month FREE for coordinated global warming denial, pro republican wall st think tank propaganda, free market deregulation bullshit, swiftboating, and the hate and fear used to get people to vote republican.

now the right/talk radio has chosen trump, they have turned whatever time they don't spend excusing trump to attack hillary and win what should be hundreds of no brainer wins for liberals.

if sanders is the choice his favorability will drop hard because of that same talk radio machine will be turned on him and because the left continues the stupidity of ignoring it. and as long as it ignores it will not be able to say it got bernies back.

[kaleckim]

135. Great theory

not buying your logic what so ever, but I appreciate that you have a theory then discuss it as if it is just objective reality and the leftists are too ignorant to acknowledge it. Brilliant logic too. If the right wing attacks Clinton, a corrupt politicians that isn't liked or trusted, it will surely work on Sanders. I say you should publish your findings and prepare your Nobel speech. Cheers!

[certainot]

136. so, what part of obama's gansta community organizer mooslim

terrorist history was true?

yeah, he was a community organizer instead of a top shelf black trophy lawyer for some chicago firm making $500/hr and THAT was a negative because..... ACORN, and SOROS, and SAUL ALINSkY and so on.

tens of millions believe that shit, enough to enable a major obstruction

most of the shit i see repeated here often re hillary is from idiots who apparently believe limbaugh, or their parents who listened to limbaugh.

it doesn't matter what sanders is or has said or is saying or did.

here's michael savage getting warmed up:

I was using Snowtape to sample a variety of Republican talk radio stations this Monday September 14, and caught some of the ubiquitous Michael (Wiener) Savage show.

These were cut from two 20 minute segments I recorded. There was more.

BERNIE SANDERS IS A
Schmuck

Liberalism is a mental disorder, Bernie’s an eg of someone who’s on medication, well he’s on medication obviously in my opinion he should be on severe thorazine in a bug house

He’s a retrovirus, not only a carrier of the marxist virus but he’s actually an infection himself

Schmuck, a lowlife of the lowest order a brooklyn commie, i know the type.... if they were a teacher they’d get fired for sleeping with a student

I knew the type, the grandfather stood on the corner of union square on a soapbox screaming about the wonders of communism even though he fled russia

Schmuck

(Bernie supporters) millennials, morons lived in their parents basement until yesterday

The clinton machine will not let him get there- it will be a pullonium bagel or an exploding knish, there’ll be an accident, a little advice for bernie- don’t jog in marcy park

Liberty university- why would they let this schmuck speak there? let this anti christian communist speak there?

What does that mean raised in a jewish family, non observant? he was a communist descended from jews!

Let him sell body parts, lunatic, too stupid to invest wisely

We're overrun by mexicans and syrians and this schmuck’s talking about income inequality

Steeped in marxism right down to the dirty suit, died in the wool loser, at least he’s not wearing a pantsuit, now if he came out in a pink pantsuit i’d say he has a better chance at the crossover vote

If he won i’d leave the country

Inarticulate lowlife, bad health, lifetime of mariajuana, bad red wine, tofu, probably enlarged breasts from the tofu, emaciated mentally and physically, can’t he get a hair cut? the breath on this guy, halitosis

I want to ridicule him, i want to tear him apart like a cat with a mouse, i’d invite him on the show anytime he wants,

Moron moron moron sick


Does it matter what some self-hating insecure jerk on 400 radio stations says to millions of Americans about Bernie?

Hell yeah.

Imagine some jerk gets up on a soapbox across the street from your house and starts yelling crap like that about you.

He comes back day after day and even brings a megaphone so the whole block can hear him. Then he starts insulting your family and friends.

And to pay for what he's doing he gets Nike to pay him to wear the Nike swoosh on his shirt.

At what point do your neighbors start to believe what he's saying because they see you giving him the free speech free ride, chanting "sticks and stones..." with your fingers in your ears? Neighbors and strangers say they heard another lying jerk down the street saying exactly the same thing. And another lying jerk a few blocks over. Who are they going to believe?

Liberals, Dems, the Left have to go on offense if anything's going to change.

If I hadn't pointed out this crap from Savage it's possible none of Bernie's supporters would ever know. How much more is coming his way that won't be noticed?

And those aren't just individual jerks enjoying free speech rights standing on the corner soapbox- they're doing it while hiding behind call screeners and sometimes prompted by paid callers, from radio stations licensed to operate in the public interest, and they're often coordinated on important messaging.

I keep hearing that social media and the internet will make the difference this time. If I was Karl Rove with a billion dollar bank account what kind of dent could I make in that advantage by hiring and prompting a few thousand foreign trolls- like that Russian group exposed a few months ago?

The only real challenge to Republican radio today are the stoprush/flushrush efforts and they've cost the Limbaugh empire a lot of money. The Left needs to expand those efforts.

Republican radio has a weakness.

More than 1/4 and possibly as many as 1/3 of all Republican talk radio stations parasitize and piggyback our publicly funded universities and colleges. More than 270 out of 600 Limbaugh stations rent the logos of about 90 major universities and benefit the same way Nike does when it pays a star athlete to wear the swoosh.

In this case the stations pay a small licensing fee (compared with what TV stations pay) for the privilege of broadcasting the school's sporting events. Why would they pay instead of the other way around? Because they can use the association with the school and its sports teams for community credibility to help them draw local and maybe national advertising dollars.

Meanwhile, while riding the school mascot, they're selling hate, racism, global warming denial, and Republican disinformation- the kind of stuff universities condemn in their mission statements and the bronze placards on their buildings- stuff about honesty, integrity, fairness, tolerance, wisdom, curiosity, science, creativity, and higher education.

Those associations with Republican radio make those schools appropriate places to protest almost any important issue until they start looking for apolitical alternatives to broadcast their sports. One university doing the right thing would shame others into following.

That is when local advertisers would abandon Republican radio. Without those schools helping them many stations would have to change format or sell. The upcoming elections could be very different.

Students at universities around the country starting Democratic Students or Bernie For President chapters might want to check to see if their schools rent their mascots to Republican radio stations so a few jerks like Savage, Limbaugh, Hannity, and Levin can yell over them and determine whether Bernie or Hillary are acceptable as president (and university regents and chancellors/presidents, for that matter).

These 90 Limbaugh-loving schools and many others play an important part in electing Republicans, passing their anti-democratic bullshit, obstructing progressive reform, and swiftboating Democratic candidates.

And if Republicans whine that the school needs the licensing revenue, start a donation drive to make up the difference- I'll bet it won't be much compared to what it buys the GOP, ALEC, and the billionaires those radio stations work for.

[kaleckim]

137. Yes

let's pick a candidate that Michael Savage and right wing reactionaries won't say ignorant and inaccurate things about. That'll show them. The three dozen old white men that still listen to their nonsense will raise hell otherwise! LOL! Please leave me alone.

[certainot]

138. what part of the simple math in my original comment is hard to understand

about how well rw radio works for them?

you're the one who replied to me.

[Carolina]

129. Excellent

and accurate post, kaleckim

[TwilightZone]

11. Agreed.

We've survived worse.

[KPN]

50. Hahaha.

Who's we?

[PoliticalMalcontent]

21. So either folks here are democrats who support the party regardless where the party goes...

or they are democrat haters.

That's some inside-the-box thinking if I've ever heard it.

I disagree, respectfully. I'm a lifelong democrat that is aware of the flaws of a two party system (e.g. rejecting outsiders even if they could improve the party platform). Please don't label me a democrat hater based on your black-and-white thinking. It is being aware of a bad process and the result of that bad process. It's more saving the party from itself.

But please, continue thinking that all people who disagree with where the party is headed are democrat haters. I know I won't change your mind. I'm just tremendously irked by it.

There's a reason fewer and fewer people identify as democrat and republican as the years pass by... and yet Democrats and Republicans are still pretty much all that gets elected because they both work together to ensure their monopoly on the political system.

Postscript: Clinton has tried to redefine what it means to be liberal/progressive all in the name of getting elected. That is some grade-A bullshit. Hopefully it won't become the new norm, but it sure feels like it is. In a world where words have no meaning and our leaders have no integrity you can count me out because what's the point.

[KPN]

51. Frank and right on!

[PatrickforO]

30. No, actually it is not. I and millions of others are TIRED of getting screwed by

Third Way DINOs and have watched for decades as our party betrayed and abandoned working class Americans.

Sorry, but I DEMAND change. I'm not gonna give up and I'm not gonna shut up. Bernie's platform would genuinely make my life better, and the lives of my family members, and I'm confident the rest of the American people. Things have got to change.

[leftofcool]

54. Exactly!

[Stuckinthebush]

64. Agreed. This is hyperbole

Most everyone will come together to support Clinton in the fall. The ones who don't will be the ones who never would anyway - who have bought into the decades of right wing packaged lies and fake scandals. They weren't Dems to begin with and have no intention of ever being Democrats.

This primary has been ugly but no different from past primaries.

[Ford_Prefect]

69. How many primaries have you seen? When did you begin to vote? When did you register?

How many jobs have you watched shipped overseas since 1970? This is not the same as any other primary. None of them were the same. If you haven't figured that out you're not paying attention. You don't know the difference between 1968, 1976, and 2008.

How do you think we lost the House and Senate majorities? Why do you think there was a steady decline in voting in both parties?

How do you sleep at night?

[Stuckinthebush]

118. I've seen many

It's the same in that we will come together as a party.

I sleep great thanks. Looking forward to President Clinton next year.

[stopbush]

94. You're right. As much as the Sanders folks wish it was true, it isn't.

eom

[cui bono]

111. There was no split to be made in 2008. Both are centrist and corporate.

Hard to tell them apart in terms of policy except that Clinton is more of a warhawk.

You are not understanding the difference in ideals at all if you think that the difference between Bernie and Hillary is the same as the difference between Obama and Hillary.

Plus, Bernie has shown that it is possible for someone to run a strong national campaign without taking corporate funding and without having a SuperPac. He talks the talk and walks the walk. He has shown us that when someone speaks truth to power and means it the people will come out and get involved.

It's a whole new ball game and a lot of people don't want to play in a rigged system any more. And now can see they don't have to. If Hillary wins there will most likely be a mass exodus from the party and a new party formed. A lot of people are sick of the good cop, bad cop charade.

.

.

[onehandle]

116. Yeah, this time they are only 96% the same based on their votes.

Sad that you think Bernie is 'centrist' and 'corporate.'

[cui bono]

120. They are no where near 96% the same.

It is so weird that Hillary supporters keep trying to convince people that she is like Bernie. If you like him so much, then support him.

Hillary takes big corporate money.
She has a SuperPac.
She voted for the IWR and we now know she lied about what was in the classified document she said she based her vote on.
She has taken millions from banksters and the health industry in speaking fees.
She is willing to compromise a woman's right to control her own body.
She is pushing for fracking worldwide.
She is a warhawk.
She supports the TPP.
Her support of the Public Option for the ACA will pull the plug on Medicare for All.
She takes money from the private prison industry.
She is under investigation by the FBI because she thinks that rules and regulations don't apply to her.

She is nowhere near where Sanders is in terms of policy stances or attitude.

If she is nominated there are not only many Dems who will not be able to bring themselves to vote for her, but she will not get a lot of independents to vote for either. And she most certainly will not get many Republicans to vote for her.

She has an incredibly high unlikeability rating and an astronomical untrustworthy rating by the people. If she is the Dem nominee we will most likely be ushering in a Trump presidency because with her policy stances and establishment standing too many people will not vote for her. And after the way she has run her campaign and the way her surrogates and supporters have acted I don't see how you can expect Bernie supporters to forget the lies and smears to come together to vote for a corporate candidate.

.

[pmorlan1]

142. Excellent post

Our eyes are open and will not shut again. We will not participate in our enslavement.

[rhett o rick]

113. We are split now. The People thru Sen Sanders are fighting, in some cases literally, for their lives

as we struggle in this David vs. Goliath battle of the People vs. Corporate America. Wake up and smell the revolution. We are getting stronger every day and sooner or later we will drag down those in the corrupt culture that put wealth ahead of everything else.

I think it's audacious and arrogant for Clinton fans to think the Left will ever bow before them. We have a split and we must fight it out.

How sad that some that call themselves Democrats choose to side with the oligarchy and not the People. I guess it's the idolization of wealth.

Oh yeah, things are different now than in 2008. For one thing in 2008 we had two candidates, it turns out, that really agree on most things. Obama lied as a candidate to make us think he was different than Clinton, that he was progressive and not conservative like Clinton, but he only did that to win the primary. He didn't undo any of the Bush crap that he promised.

[onehandle]

117. The only split is between Internet forum/social media IDs.

No Sanders supporter I know in real life (and I live in one of the most liberal cities in America) reflect the venom I see online.

[Gore1FL]

121. That's true with the HRC people I know in real life.

They aren't trolling assholes like so many here.

[rhett o rick]

122. So you admit that Sanders supporters haven't been violent. Well I agree but if you've

participated in state or county conventions, you would easily recognize the split. And if there wasn't a split why are so many Clinton fans begging Sanders fans to give up and come to their side?

[McKim]

125. Amen

We are split. On one side I see Hillary, Kissinger, Albright, Wall St., Big Pharma and on the other side is the rest of us.

[tazkcmo]

132. It's splitting. n/t

[Phlem]

133. Huh.

2 Thirdway pioneers jockeying for the same spot in 2008 and there was no split? Well of course your right.

Thanks for proving the point.

[msongs]

3. the party is not splitting. the opportunist hijacking the party for his own gain is doing the

splitting

[BillZBubb]

5. Keep your head in the sand. I imagine it's cool down there.

And you don't have to think.

[Squinch]

6. And doing it badly. 70% of BS voters are reasonable people who have said they will vote for Hillary.

There's no split except in the Kool-Aid fevered minds.

And the primary is not at a fevered pitch. The primary is over.

[JimDandy]

46. The 72% figure (not 70%) is misleading for several reasons.

That statistic is from the CBS News/New York Times Poll taken between May 13th and 17th. But it is misleading because,firstly, the CBS News article that reported the results of that survey made it clear that, when not restricted to a choice of voting ONLY for Clinton or Trump, 8 out of 10 of ALL Sanders supporters surveyed who were registered voters (not just those who were allowed to/participated in the Democratic Primary) wanted to be able to choose another option (write-in, not vote, or vote 3rd party/Independent candidate)! Surprisingly, a majority of both Democrats and Independents also did not want to be limited to voting only for either Clinton or Trump!

(3rd paragraph)
Still, most voters are not content with the options of Clinton and Trump: while 46 percent of registered voters would be satisfied with that match-up, 52 percent want more choices. Most Republicans (55 percent) are satisfied, while most Democrats (52 percent) and independents (60 percent) are not. Eight in 10 Sanders supporters would like other choices.

(survey at bottom of article)
Q28 If Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are the two parties' candidates for the presidency in November, would you be satisfied choosing between them or would you like other choices?

** REGISTERED VOTERS **

---------------------Total Rep Dem Inp
------------------------%---%---%---%
Satisfied-------------- 46---55---47---38
Other choices--------- 52---43---52---60
Don't know/No answer---1----2----1----1

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbsnyt-national-poll-hillary-clintons-lead-over-donald-trump-narrows/

Secondly, since the actual questions were withheld from the published survey, it wasn't immediately obvious to whom that 72% figure referred. Here is the wording from the CBS News' article:

Contentious primary contests on both sides haven't turned off many primary voters from voting for their party's candidate in a likely November match-up between Trump and Clinton, even if these candidates are not their preferred primary choice. Seventy-one percent of Republican voters who did not support Trump in the primaries would still vote for him against Clinton. On the Democratic side, 72 percent of Sanders supporters would vote for Clinton against Donald Trump. (survey showing that this question actually was withheld is at bottom of this article)

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbsnyt-national-poll-hillary-clintons-lead-over-donald-trump-narrows/

So, based on the presentation of the Republican response that appears just before it, the reference to Sanders supporters on the "Democratic side" probably pertains only to his supporters who voted in the Democratic Primary. Left out of that 72% figure, then, are the Sanders supporters who either weren't allowed to vote in closed primaries or who simply didn't vote in the primaries. They would be enumerated in the survey category labeled "Registered Voter-Independents" (calculated total=359*). We know that during this campaign season, that has been a significant amount of his supporters who are registered to vote, and their frustrations over that may partially influence what they choose to do with their vote in the GE.

A New York Times article I found is more clear about from whom the responses to that question were gathered:

However, Mrs. Clinton is still contending with resistance to her candidacy from supporters of Mr. Sanders as their contest carries on and grows more contentious. Twenty-eight percent of Mr. Sanders’s primary voters say they will not support her if she is the nominee, a figure that reflects the continuing anger many Sanders supporters feel toward both Mrs. Clinton and a process they believe is unfair.

“I don’t support her mostly because I don’t trust her,” said Will Lambert, 32, an engineer in Denver who supports Mr. Sanders. “If she became the nominee, I might vote for a third-party candidate, like the Green Party, or I might do a write-in for Bernie. I’m still not 100 percent decided, because I don’t necessarily want to see Trump elected, either. It’s a slim possibility that I might vote for Hillary, but then, I’m at a point in my life where I just don’t want to vote for the lesser of two evils.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/20/us/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-poll.html?nlid=56810426&_r=0

Thirdly, the number of respondents broken down by which candidate they supported was withheld from the survey presented to the public. So, the total number of Sanders supporters, as well as the number of Sanders supporters broken down by party (Democratic, Independent, Republican) is unclear. It makes a difference whether the poll is referring to 72% of 200 Sanders supporters or 72% of just 10 Sanders supporters.

*

CBS NEWS/NEW YORK TIMES POLL
Party Unity and the November Election
May 13-17, 2016

------------------------------UNWEIGHTED----WEIGHTED
Total Respondents--------------------1,300
Total Registered Voters---------------1,109---------1,031

Registered Voters -Republicans---------345-----------300
Registered Voters-Democrats---------- 362-----------362
Registered Voters- Independents-------402-----------368

Republican Primary Voters--------------379-----------315
Democratic Primary Voters-------------371-----------357

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbsnyt-national-poll-hillary-clintons-lead-over-donald-trump-narrows/

Lastly, that 72% of his supporters who voted in the Democratic primaries and indicated that they would vote for Hillary, if the only choice they had was her or Trump, has probably decreased significantly in this last week. The survey for this poll began May 13th, the day before the contentious Nevada State Democratic Convention, and ended May 17th, while the Hillary campaign was falsely maligning Sanders supporters with allegation of violence at the convention, but before the those allegations were debunked as lies. Negative impressions of the Democratic party by Sanders supporters have soared since then and previous intentions by some of his supporters to resignedly vote for the Democratic nominee have undoubtedly hardened into resolve to not only NOT EVER vote for Hillary, but to now leave the Democratic party.

[Squinch]

99. Wall of words in the service of a candidate who has already lost. I'll pass.

[frylock]

114. TRANSLATION: I don't do imformation.

[pablo_marmol]

123. Translation: I've got nothin'. NT

[bvar22]

106. Thank You....

...for this very detailed, precise, and well written analysis.

[billhicks76]

12. Get Over Yourself

Last edited Mon May 23, 2016, 01:20 AM - Edit history (1)

You're losing all respect by suggesting Bernie is doing anything for personal gain. It's Clinton who demanded hundreds of thousands of dollars for simple speeches to public universities. People like you are the ones bifurcating the party. What do you gain by spreading such lies?

[cstanleytech]

14. Clinton taking money has jack to do with the election as for the article *meh*the Democrats have

weathered far worse in their time and this will eventually pass and regardless who wins I have zero doubt that they can beat Trump because his bump from Cruz dropping out will fade just as soon as the Democrats pick a candidate and then alot of people who were thinking of even voting for Trump will wake up and wonder what the hell they were thinking by considering him.

[billhicks76]

32. You Better Hope You're Right

[PatrickforO]

31. I am sorry you feel this way. With over 40,000 posts, I'm imagining you've

been an active Democrat for decades. Can you really not see the split? Because it is there. Bernie isn't an opportunist. He is a voice crying in the wilderness and millions are listening to him. This government should be our government, of, by and for us, the American people. Instead of that it has become corrupt and those we've elected seem to have forgotten who they serve. Or more accurately, they have been bought and paid for by people who don't give a damn about you, I or any other everyday American. (of course, you might be very rich and/or very high up, and if so, my mistake. I am an everyday American - but I see what I see and it makes me sick).

[RKP5637]

57. Well said. Millions in this country feel they have no representation anymore. Bernie gives them

hope. It's sad that Trump is filling that void in America that should be filled by the democrats.

[LiberalLovinLug]

104. Yes, once again the Democrats bungle and bumble there way along

Because of the disarray in the Republican ranks, this was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to have a real candidate that stands for real Democratic values and for the 99%. We could have taken advantage of the anti-establishment zeitgeist but instead the Republicans will.

[RKP5637]

109. Exactly!!! I've talked to some of them, they say Trump is the only one addressing their

concerns other than Bernie, but he won't get the nomination they say. The democratic party has a long history of shooting itself in the foot. I get so damn disgusted. My gut feeling is Trump will win 2016. HRC touts the establishment, the country hates the establishment. Then she trots out Bill as her economic adviser. FFS, That makes her look weak and millions also hate the trade agreements he did, and it looks like Bill's running for a 3rd term.

[JEB]

8. Both parties are putting up "bottom of the barrel". nt

[chervilant]

27. And, it doesn't have to be this way! n/t

[brush]

9. Seems we let in a Trojan horse candidate.

[pmorlan1]

10. You obviously haven't been paying attention

Bernie didn't create this split. This split was here before Bernie even began his campaign. His campaign just enabled us to have a leader speaking out FOR us.

[brush]

13. He's been attacking the party non-stop lately

You should pay better attention if you think that's not contributing to a split.

I've been around for a while and I've never seen another Democrat attack the party like he does.

It's like he's running against the Democratic Party instead of Clinton or the repugs.

It's disgraceful.

[pmorlan1]

19. Maybe they should have been

instead of ignoring a huge part of their base. I've been around a long time too and I'm very glad that he's calling my party out. They need to be called out.

[brush]

24. Well why the hell did he join the party if he's so against it?

Because he couldn't get any national recognition of TV debate appearances as a little-known independent, self-avowed socialist from Vermont.

That's pretty easy to see now.

He's a sore loser.

[pmorlan1]

25. Why are you so focused on Bernie?

It's not just Bernie. Get a clue.

[Andy823]

97. That's true

It's not just Bernie, it's also the right wing trolls that came on the internet after Obama won and started doing their dirty work of trying to divide Democrats on every board they could find, including DU. They started on Obama from day one, and then they started on the party as a whole, the 3rd way meme came to be, and anyone who didn't agree with how "terrible" Obama or the party was, got stuck with the "Turd way" label. they were obvious as hell, but they kept on going over the years and were able to con some of the more gullible Democrats who didn't get "their" pony when Obama was elected.

Now they have united behind Bernie and are using him to divide the party even further. The reality is they are the ones making all kinds of "claims" about Bernie or Bust, write in Bernie's name even if he doesn't win, or trying to paint Hillary as just as bad, if not worse than Trump. So you are right it isn't all Bernie, he has had a lot of help from Karl Rove and his minions.

[pmorlan1]

98. Maybe one day you will get it

and you won't have to make up wild tales to explain the obvious that your fellow DU members are telling you straight out. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. You're going to have to figure it out on your own. I wish you luck.

[kaleckim]

29. This party is a double edged sword

On the one hand, it's corrupt to its core. DWS, as corrupt and right wing as she is, leading the party is telling. However, as one of the two heads of the two headed corrupt monster that is our political system, he chose to use a party that has infrastructure in place to get his popular message out. He's now seen the limits as to what can be done within the two major parties, as has many on the left. I would be shocked if another party on the left (say the Green Party) doesn't emerge within the next decade at the national level, and Sanders can help that come about.

You can use the word socialist as a pejorative if you want, but Sanders' policies are right in the middle of popular opinion. The Democrats' and Republicans' policies aren't, and are well to the right of popular opinion. Lots of studies proving the gap between popular opinion and government policy.

[brush]

66. "He chose to use the party . . ." Exactly.

Many people saw this for what it was, which is a big part of why he is losing.

[Ned_Devine]

33. Brush, you're just not seeing it for the big picture

At least I hope that's what the case is. The "party" is totally corrupt and has been co-opted by the same big monied interests that control the GOP. But here's the kicker; the base for the democrats is still made up of regular folks like you and me who have voted democrat our whole lives. Bernie chose the democratic party because he knows that we're out there and we've been watching the system and party we've trusted all of these years betray us for the special interests. He speaks to us and isn't beholden to the special interests. In fact, democrats in the senate roll their eyes at him and his "leftist" ideas like universal healthcare, campaign finance reform, universal college, and so on. They call him a "loner" because he doesn't deal with the lobbyists in DC. Who do you relate to? The people that work with the lobbyists every day or the guy who's fighting for workers rights? I know whose side I'm on.

[brush]

68. Not a smart move then to join the party where people are "rolling their eyes at him".

Why it's positively Quixotic.

We're seeing that unfold, but it'll be over soon. June 7 in New Jersey will be the penultimate windmill. After that, California won't even matter — that's the actual big picture, and it seems you missed it.

It was a valiant try.

His timeline is limited though because of his age. He had to do it now instead of organizing around getting progressive candidates elected in the 2018 mid-terms and then going for the White House in 2020.

I do hope his movement continues and doesn't evaporate like Occupy did as working towards the mid-terms is a great idea.

[Ned_Devine]

79. I didn't miss any big picture

So, by that estimation, you're cool with the reason they're rolling their eyes? Ok then. I prefer a candidate that isn't corrupted by the system, and if you actually read my post, it would appear that you're just fine with it. I did try to reach out.

[brush]

82. Interpret it how you want. It still doesn't make sense to me to join a party and then commense . . .

to publicly, publicly and constantly attack it.

No candidate of a party I know of has ever won by attacking his party, not his opponent mind you, but his party from within.

That is just not a successful strategy.

[Ned_Devine]

85. He's attacking the corrupt system, not the voters. The voters have been had

If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.

[brush]

88. I see him constantly attacking the Democratic Party establishment.

He's constantly attack his own party, now that he has joined. That is not a successful strategy.

And who said anything about attacking voters?

Not me.

[passiveporcupine]

35. You are sounding like a sore loser and you haven't even lost yet

If you don't think the party needs shaking up, then you are one of the establishment who is not worried about the middle class or the poor.

[JDPriestly]

43. "He" has won at least states, something like that I believe.

It's pretty easy to see that a lot of lifelong Democrats like me really like him and want him, not Hillary, to be president.

I've been canvassing in California recently and in addition to loyal Democrats meeting a lot of independent voters who are planning to vote for Bernie.

Why are they Independent (decline to state in California) and not Democrats?

Because the Democratic Party leaves them out, does not offer stances on the issues or candidates that win their trust or interest, that's why.

I did not realize how much the Democratic Party has alienated voters with its stubbornly conservative stances until this election.

The mission of the Democratic Party when I was very young was to represent working people. Bernie does that. Hillary does not. That is why Bernie has gained name recognition and the hearts of voters so quickly -- in just over a year since he announced he would run in May of 2015.

The Democratic Party needs to listen to Bernie's many, many enthusiastic voters. If it doesn't, it will become a minority party and something new and truly progressive will arise out of its ashes.

We have seen this phenomenon before in American history. The Democratic Party and Hillary need to pay attention to the many Americans who have been left out from the American dream since Reagan and who feel no loyalty to the Party that has abandoned them.

Trump is just horrible. In fact his very name is a big, cruel joke in California. But that does not mean that a conservative Democratic Party will earn the loyalty of the many voters who will never vote for Trump but don't feel represented by the Hillary wing of the Democratic Party either.

Bernie's supporters are the future. They are for the most part the liberal youth of our country. If the Democratic hierarchy wants to be part of that future, then they need to listen to Bernie and his supporters.

Whether the current split in the Democratic Party is permanent or temporary depends on how the Democratic Party leadership responds to Bernie and his supporters. If they continue to respond as they did in Nevada, the future is not bright for the Democratic Party.

[LittleGirl]

45. well said, thanks eom

[AlbertCat]

72. Democrats like me really like him and want him, not Hillary, to be president.

Should Hillary manage to win the GE, it won't be because a majority WANT her as president. It will only be because they don't want Trump.

And so Clinton is handed another job like she was handed 1st Lady and SoS. And she will probably be an ineffective in her new job-by-default as she was in her other jobs she was handed.

[JDPriestly]

73. True. Her one hope is that no one wants Trump.

But life can be full of surprises. Let's wait and see what happens.

[RKP5637]

58. Many democrats have been fed up with the democratic party for some time now.

Bernie didn't start this dissatisfaction.

[passiveporcupine]

34. he is running against the party because

it's the party that is disgraceful. He's trying to shake it up to make it the FDR party again. We were once great. We can be great again.

[brush]

65. Attacking the party you're a member of publicly over and over, never been done before.

What a concept.

Seems the charges he's constantly making should be kept in-house.

He should try winning first, then institute all the changes he wants — the operative phrase of course being "win first".

[passiveporcupine]

81. Seems you'd be wrong

how would he have won the following he has if he had not come out boldly against the things the democratic party are screwing up on and that so many people are upset about.

Who would have stood with him, a basically unknown, running on a platform like Hillary? Instead he stood up for what he really believed in and the people love it and jumped on his wagon and look what it did to Hillary's campaign promises...she totally changed coarse because of him. Of course she will morph back to being a neocon as soon as the nomination is over.

He wants to change the system and to do that he needs a yuuuuge grass roots movement to push congress. He's got that now. He wouldn't even still be in the race if he'd run like any other candidate. He also would have had to go against his own integrity, and accept money from superpacs to even stay in the race. That was part of what we all want to see changed.

Seems to me he's done everything right to be where he is now.

It would have been nice to have more time to reach people who didn't know him earlier in the race, since Clinton is such an established name and had an instant core of backers...

But considering all he's been running against, even if he doesn't win in the end, he's run a magnificent race and he's fired up the people to want to fight for change.

And even if it doesn't happen this term. Change is coming, so get ready for it. Many people are not going to like it when it happens. Some people are just too afraid of change. And some people are too happy with the way the system works for them right now. But they are the minority. The American Spring is on it's way.

[brush]

83. I'd be wrong only if Sanders wins, but the math tells me that is not in the cards.

[passiveporcupine]

87. Whoosh

the gist of my post went right over your head.

[brush]

93. Okay, whatever you say. Your post is tiresome and full or the usual Sanders rhetoric

I cut to the chase — let him win and change the party. To think all these changes he's talking about are going to change at the convention with the super delegates switching and . . . come on, that's silly. That won't happen.

He has to win then ditch the super delegates.

As for his movement, I want to see that continue and work to elect progressives. I'd even participate in that, assuming it would be outside of the Dem party though, as I see attacking the Dem party from within the party is self-defeating, which Sanders is finding out.

[passiveporcupine]

147. Maybe you should watch these clips

they pretty much support what Sanders is doing and why.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017376170#post1

[McKim]

127. Your Idea is Correct

I have voted Democratic Ticket for 50 years and I have been praying for forty years for a candidate like Bernie, a real leader who can lead us out of this Neoliberal nightmare. So I am with him all the way. For me this is the chance of a lifetime and no more Lesser Evil
will get my vote ever again.

[zentrum]

15. Bookmarked for later. Thanks.

[pmorlan1]

18. You're Welcome

[silvershadow]

16. Thanks. nt

[pmorlan1]

17. You're Welcome

[Maedhros]

20. The Party is splitting because the corporate wing decided to insult the base,

then chided them for not being enthusiastic about being abused.

[Populist_Prole]

38. Spot-on. Thesis statement of the crux of the issue

I can't think of a better way to say it in as few words as you did.

[Jim Lane]

44. I disagree. It's because so many people finally got fed up with the corporate wing.

The discontent has been building for a long time. I agree that the corporate wing has insulted the rest of us but I think that was a result of the split, not the cause. If they had been completely polite, with a neutral DNC setting a fair debate schedule etc., there'd be a little less animosity, but the serious differences over policy would remain.

[Maedhros]

75. True. The insults and condescension just reduced the chances for reconciliation. [n/t]

[modestybl]

22. In a word: Money

Money has made the Dem leadership push back the concerns of their base to the concerns of their corporate sponsors. That is why HRC is so weak and fragile a candidate, and why her supporters lose their minds when challenged to explain why they support her.

[timdog44]

23. No splitting.

The Democratic party has always been a party of different opinions. This year we have two potential candidates who are strong leaders of those different opinions. In the end we always come together. Not always happy with who is the official candidate but we come in to support that candidate. We still time to go before that candidate is chosen. There are still over 930 delegates to be chosen and in a democracy, we can not just throw them away because someone thinks the whole thing is locked up. We may just as well not have primaries in those states that are left to have their primary. Lets get real. And if there is a close race, so be it. That is the way it should be. "Disunity could actually put Donald Trump in the White House." How the hell did you get there?

It is time to look at the republican candidate and see how dysfunctional he is. How the hell did they get there? I'll tell you. A candidate who will say and do anything because he has no ethics or morals. People, at least a lot of them, will soon realize what they have on their hands.

I am proud of the primary season for the Democratic party this year. Real choices showing up. But not enough to stop a coalescence in the end.

[chervilant]

28. What?!?

In the end we always come together?!?

I don't think this is going to play out as you've described.

[timdog44]

47. I think it very sad

that we would not come together and let a scumbag like Trump become the guy who appoints supreme court justices and has his fingers on the codes to nuclear annihilation.

[chervilant]

48. Then,

why doesn't Hi11ary cede the nomination to the candidate who polls better against Trump?

#NotMeUs

#DropOutHillary

[timdog44]

49. It does not serve

The democratic process.

[chervilant]

119. It does not serve

the corporate megalomaniacs who've usurped our media, our politics AND our global economy.

Kinda sad that we are so willing to support anyone who serves the uber wealthy oligarchs.

[chervilant]

143. Really?!?

That tired canard!?!

Hi11ary has only herself to blame if Trump becomes POTUS.

[Uncle Joe]

37. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, pmorlan1.

[pmorlan1]

39. You are welcome

[Betty Karlson]

40. A few highlights. Especially the trend is interesting:

Bernie Sanders has become a champion — the only candidate running with consistently positive favorability ratings. Progressives have rallied together and demanded more of the Democratic Party for the first time in decades. A massive number of new voters have filled out the registrations to be a part of this change. Bernie’s progressives have even started running for Congress.

Defensive party leaders in Hillary’s camp like Howard Dean, Barbara Boxer, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz have lashed out at these voters, apparently unable to see the writing on the wall, and Hillary Clinton has chastised and scolded them. The media has also come to the aid of the establishment. However, it was through this backlash, Democrats got a real glimpse of what their party had become — in the same way that through Bernie Sanders they got a glimpse of what it could be.The jig was — is up.

America’s voters have had enough. The whole country is realigning. Supporting Bernie Sanders is the only way forward for the establishment. If the leadership does not take this opportunity now, they will likely be swept out of office by progressives in upcoming years. And as the elected leaders change, so too will the unelected ones. The establishment does not realize it yet, but in the long-term, the future belongs to Bernie — to the people.

And to those who start about math: all you will point out is how the party is actively working to deny itself a victory in November. Nominating the extremely right-leaning Democrat Clinton when 70 % of the voters leans to her left: electoral suicide, sure to lose the 2018 elections, certain to end in horrible defeats all over the board in 2020. Think of the future and FEEL THE BERN!

[Duval]

92. +1

"Bernie Sanders has become a champion". I FEEL THE BERN!

[apcalc]

52. The party will be fine.

These differences will work out over time, things will evolve.

[redstatebluegirl]

56. The party will be fine after California, so will DU for that matter.

The Republicans, including some trolls on Democratic message boards, are hoping to divide us so their party looks somewhat sane when they clearly are not.

We are not going to run a weak candidate, she will be just fine!

[pmorlan1]

61. You can blame it on trolls if you want

but the fact remains that there are deep divisions within our party that aren't going away any time soon.

I'm sorry but I already think she is a weak candidate. She had huge advantages in this primary and yet she's limping to the finish line.

[HooptieWagon]

59. Good article...thanks! Nt

[pmorlan1]

62. You're Welcome

[democrank]

60. Those of you who think Bernie Sanders followers are

a bunch of ill-informed Socialist youngsters hell bent on saddling up their unicorns, are in for a rude awakening.

The discussions on this site about how you`re a Democrat hater unless you`re with Hillary remind me of the right-wing proclamations demeaning all those who did not support George W. Bush and his policies. DUers had a field day with this lockstep admonishment. Post after post after post was written about how Republicans didn`t dare think for themselves, how they took orders from the RNC....and obeyed. Like so many principles, that no longer matters today.

[Bodych]

67. Barbara Boxer D-CA, whose daughter had a son with [Clinton]’s brother

Oh my.

That explains Nevada.

[LiberalCatholic]

74. There is one thing I disagree with.

Bill Clinton moved to the right in the 90s because the country was moving in that direction. If Hillary Clinton realizes that the country is now moving to the left, and moves her financial policies to he left, then she could win a second term.

[NoMoreRepugs]

77. DU oftentimes has the feel of junior high drama.....

far too many here think their opinions truly matter more than most...

if we don't all pull on that rope together come November the country and our kids and grandchildren will only go backwards in time....

[DebbieCDC]

78. Greed, arrogance and blind ambition

Isn't that what John Dean said ailed in the GOP in his book about Watergate?

Same applies to the current "democratic" party

[retrowire]

90. knr

We need Bernie.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

91. Flash back to the late 1960s

There was a big split in the party with anti-war, anti establishment candidates and pro establishment candidates.

[pmorlan1]

103. YES

That's a HUGE issue for me. By not prosecuting our torturers he legitimized what they did.

[bvar22]

108. By covering for them, he did more than legitimize it.

He became a willing accessory to the War Crimes.

The Geneva Convention (and several others that the US has signed) has made it LAW that torture (and other War Crimes) MUST be investigated and prosecuted.
It is NOT an option.

"On becoming party to the Geneva Conventions, States undertake to enact any legislation necessary to punish persons guilty of grave breaches of the Conventions. States are also bound to prosecute in their own courts any person suspected of having committed a grave breach of the Conventions, or to hand that person over for judgment to another State. In other words, perpetrators of grave breaches, i.e. war criminals, must be prosecuted at all times and in all places, and States are responsible for ensuring that this is done.

"International humanitarian law goes further in that it requires States to seek out and punish any person who has committed a grave breach, irrespective of his nationality or the place where the offence was committed."

<snip>
What is a war crime?

*wilful killing of a protected person (e.g. wounded or sick combatant, prisoner of war, civilian);

*torture or inhuman treatment of a protected person;

*wilfully causing great suffering to, or serious injury to the body or health of, a protected person;

*attacking the civilian population;

*unlawful deportation or transfer;

*using prohibited weapons or methods of warfare;

*making improper use of the distinctive red cross or red crescent emblem or other protective signs;

*killing or wounding perfidiously individuals belonging to a hostile nation or army;

*pillage of public or private property.

<more>

https://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/5kzmnu.htm

[pmorlan1]

110. Yes he did

Ignoring torture and the drone kill list are despicable.

[Enthusiast]

101. Kicked and recommended to the Max! nt

[ArcticFox]

105. On Democratic Party Unity

Rather than threaten Sanders with ostracism, Democrats could embrace his message, and thereby his supporters. The message going out presently is “he better bend to the establishment's will,” or else. The establishment risks disenchanting huge numbers of voters by denying Bernie's accomplishment of bringing them all together. Right now the Democratic apparatus declares itself closed to change at the very moment it could best capitalize on demand for change. Unless the Democratic party can open it's arms and embrace a substantial part of Bernie's platform, one cannot dismiss fears that Trump wins in November.

[ChiciB1]

107. Looks Like We're FINALLY Getting Into Some MUCH NEEDED

NUTS & BOLTS of what so many of us here have been trying to say for SO VERY LONG! And to all who DO NOT think this opinion is simply from one source perhaps it's time to finally take the BLINDERS OFF!

Very few news outlets of ANY NOTE will come out and report this because so many of them are in bed with how our system has become hijacked.

What Is Evident is the simple fact that finally a very enormous group of "we the people" who have been trying to say and the reality that the MISTRUST of all that's been going on has actually OPENED THE EYES of too many who have been sleeping for too many years!

The MSM and THIS DEMOCRATIC PARTY decided early on that we SHOULD be ignored and THEY will be just fine "thank you" without the voice of anyone who dared to go against THEIR WISHES!

Their Secret Behind The Curtain machinations is much more prevalent than they want to admit!

We've all heard the statement for far too many years, but there's real truth to one thing... The Revolution WILL NOT BE Televised! It does appear the time is now upon us!

[randr]

115. A big difference between Reps and Dems

Reps will hold their nose and vote for a fellow rep they may hate; they have no standards.
Dems have more integrity and will not hold their nose or vote for a dem that does not rise to their standards.

[hay rick]

124. I hope there is no split, but the fault lines are obvious.

I volunteer at the party office a couple days a week and deal with callers and walk ins. In Florida, candidates can qualify for the ballot by getting petitions signed. I have talked to hundreds of voters while getting petitions signed. I talk to voters while phone banking- both for candidates and for the party. I run a local Democratic club. I have been coordinating the use of our office with both presidential campaigns.

I also helped organize several Sanders events. I did this for two reasons: 1) I prefer Bernie politically and; 2) I expected Bernie to attract new and younger people and I wanted to draw them into working with the local party whether Bernie won or not. I switched to working on mostly local campaigns in January but have kept in touch with the Bernie volunteers.

Here's my takeaway. If Hillary wins the nomination I think a few of the Bernie people will still be active locally but most will disappear. My gut feeling is that a significant number of these people are also not currently planning to vote for Hillary. They won't vote for Trump, but Hillary has to earn their vote. Increasingly, the lesser evil pitch is falling on deaf ears.

[pmorlan1]

128. Thank you for your thoughtful comments

My experience matches yours. I hope our Party wakes up before it's too late.

[Machineland]

134. I have visited the Democratic Underground for all my news for 13 years or better but never engaged

in posting until now. I have sit back and watched all the posts of Hillary supporters and Bernie fans going back and forth. My views are progressive Democrat. So I thought how could I engage in this conversation so folks could understand my thinking on the matter. So I came up with this. My Mind Flow chart!



Enjoy...

[pmorlan1]

139. Great Post

Love your flow chart. Thank you very much for adding your well thought out post.

[Pauldg47]

140. Love it.....your very thorough and convincing...hope Hillary people read this and change their minds

[pmorlan1]

141. I just noticed

that this thread has been removed from the Greatest threads category. Can anyone tell me how that works? This thread has a lot more recommends than some of the threads that are still there? Are they removed after a certain period of time?

[alarimer]

144. It's the Third Way/DLC that caused it.

Bill Clinton and company decided winning was more important than anything else. And those people are still around. That included acting like Republicans: war on drugs, mass incarceration, letting the banks nearly destroy the economy, welfare "reform", school "choice", military incursions in places we should leave alone, etc.

They've all but abandoned the working class and the poor to sell their souls to corporations.

Being a social progressive is easy. Not much has to change. The Supreme Court did most of the work already. Laws are already in place prohibiting discrimination. The hard work has already been done. By someone else. You can just jump on that bandwagon and it will make you so, so popular politically. It's easy; it feels good. But you cannot touch the third rail, which is economic inequality, because the powers that be, the corporations, cannot have their sacred duty to rape and pillage derailed by do-gooders. Heaven forbid their shareholders complain about lower dividends due to lost profits by paying an actual living wage. We cannot have that, no sir.-