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MyOwnPeace

(16,926 posts)
Fri Sep 10, 2021, 01:35 PM Sep 2021

Trump's "HERO"

A column by Dana Milbank of the Washington Post:

Robert E. Lee was a stone-cold loser.

No general in U.S. history was defeated as unequivocally and as totally as Lee. For all his supposed strategic skill, his army was entirely destroyed. One-quarter of those who served under him were killed, and an additional half were wounded or captured. He was a traitor to the United States who killed more U.S. soldiers than any other enemy in the nation’s history, for the supremely evil cause of slavery. To boot, he was a cruel enslaver and a promoter of white supremacy until his death.

It is ridiculous that, in the year 2021, these simple truths are in dispute. But here we are.

As the massive statue of Lee and his horse finally came down this week from its pedestal in Richmond, former president Donald Trump, the unquestioned leader of the Republican Party, penned an impassioned defense of the Confederate commander. It was ugly in its embrace of the themes that have powered white supremacists for generations. It was also fake history.

Robert E. Lee is considered by many Generals to be the greatest strategist of them all,” Trump wrote. “President Lincoln wanted him to command the North, in which case the war would have been over in one day. Robert E. Lee instead chose the other side because of his great love of Virginia, and except for Gettysburg, would have won the war. He should be remembered as perhaps the greatest unifying force after the war was over …

“If only we had Robert E. Lee to command our troops in Afghanistan, that disaster would have ended in a complete and total victory many years ago. What an embarrassment we are suffering because we don’t have the genius of a Robert E. Lee!”

For a point-by-point grading of Trump’s history paper, I checked in with Ty Seidule, a retired U.S. Army brigadier general and military historian who is the former head of the U.S. Military Academy history department. Now at Hamilton College, he’s the author of “Robert E. Lee and Me: A Southerner’s Reckoning With the Myth of the Lost Cause.”

Ty Seidule: What to rename the Army bases that honor Confederate soldiers

Greatest strategist of all? “Well, he’s a loser,” Seidule responded. “He wasn’t just defeated; his army was destroyed. The idea that he’s the greatest strategist of all is just ludicrous.”

War would have been over in a day? If it had, Seidule argued, then slavery may have survived. Emancipation wasn’t U.S. policy until 1863. “So the fact that Lee was able to keep the war going as long as it did helped add to the eventual destruction of that which he fought for.”

Lee chose the Confederacy because of his great love of Virginia? Seidule said Lee was one of eight U.S. Army colonels from Virginia at the time of secession in 1861. The other seven remained loyal to the United States — as did Virginian Winfield Scott, the U.S. Army’s commander, and 80 percent of all colonels from the South. “Lee’s the outlier,” Seidule said. That may be because at that level of Army officers “no one benefited from slavery more than he did.” Lee ran an enslaved-labor farm — a plantation — from 1857 to 1860. He wasn’t even a resident of Virginia for most of his prewar life; Alexandria, his hometown, was part of the District of Columbia until 1847.

Would have won but for Gettysburg? The day after Gettysburg, Ulysses S. Grant triumphed at Vicksburg, giving the U.S. Army control of the Mississippi River and splitting the Confederacy. Lee’s army couldn’t function without thousands of enslaved people working as servants or in factories and on farms, and after Vicksburg, Seidule said, “they lose all that enslaved labor” as the U.S. Army pushed into the South.

Greatest unifying force after the war? Grant called Lee’s actions “forced acquiescence” that was “grudging and pernicious.” Though more conciliatory than others, Lee testified to Congress in 1866 that Black residents “cannot vote intelligently” and that “it would be better for Virginia if she could get rid of them.” In 1868, Lee joined in issuing the White Sulphur Springs manifesto, which argued that Black people had “neither the intelligence nor the qualifications … for political power.” Argued Seidule: “His idea of reconciliation is only if the White South is given complete political control over Black people.”

Afghanistan would have been a total victory under the “genius” Lee? If the U.S. military had suffered the same casualty rate in Afghanistan that Lee’s army did, 200,000 American troops would have been killed, not the actual 2,400. Some 400,000 would have been injured or captured instead of 20,000 injured.

“No one has lost more completely in American history than Robert E. Lee,” Seidule said. “There is no general that has been more crushed, more defeated, at the strategic, tactical, operational level. … How much genius does it take to lose absolutely and completely?”

Neither Lee nor his statue deserves a pedestal.



18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Trump's "HERO" (Original Post) MyOwnPeace Sep 2021 OP
Of course the self-described "stable genius" who knew better than his own generals Moebym Sep 2021 #1
Off topic, until the early 1800s awful meant awe-inspiring. marie999 Sep 2021 #4
And artificial meant made with art. My HS English teacher told us that some English king, upon Karadeniz Sep 2021 #15
I wonder where Custer would fit in his rankings. tikka Sep 2021 #2
"I saw him on teevee! What great hair! Not as good as mine but still good!" Grokenstein Sep 2021 #7
I love this scathing take-down of robert e lee. What a fucking racist loser. BComplex Sep 2021 #3
So has dump's hero, dump should have had the Afghan war done years ago. LakeArenal Sep 2021 #5
Lee was a racist asshole LetMyPeopleVote Sep 2021 #6
Great takedown of the Robert E Lee myth johnnyfins Sep 2021 #8
Lee the Gigantic LOSER embraced by tRUMP? Kind of ano-brainer when u think about it. NoMoreRepugs Sep 2021 #9
I saw General Seidule, General Petreus, and General Pittard discuss Lee... NNadir Sep 2021 #10
"How much genius does it take to lose absolutely and completely?" robertpaulsen Sep 2021 #11
put lee & trump in the same bag, ya' still come out with a bag of shit ! monkeyman1 Sep 2021 #12
It's usually advised to give the link to the article Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Sep 2021 #13
Thanks, Mama..... MyOwnPeace Sep 2021 #16
Donnie is that stupid fuck that hears something, understands half of it, and repeats a quarter of it Comfortably_Numb Sep 2021 #14
Wow! What a GREAT description.... MyOwnPeace Sep 2021 #17
If I had the means, I would buy a section, melt it down and make a bronze urinal. Missn-Hitch Sep 2021 #18

Moebym

(989 posts)
1. Of course the self-described "stable genius" who knew better than his own generals
Fri Sep 10, 2021, 01:49 PM
Sep 2021

Would consider Robert E. Lee the greatest strategist in history.

They, after all, have an awful - emphasis in awful - lot in common.

Karadeniz

(22,516 posts)
15. And artificial meant made with art. My HS English teacher told us that some English king, upon
Fri Sep 10, 2021, 04:24 PM
Sep 2021

Seeing a cathedral for the first time, was so impressed that he pronounced it "awful and artificial" in admiration!

Grokenstein

(5,723 posts)
7. "I saw him on teevee! What great hair! Not as good as mine but still good!"
Fri Sep 10, 2021, 03:39 PM
Sep 2021


Yes, someone made a TV series about Custer. It...didn't last.

BComplex

(8,051 posts)
3. I love this scathing take-down of robert e lee. What a fucking racist loser.
Fri Sep 10, 2021, 02:06 PM
Sep 2021

I think all the people in the south who believe in slavery should, indeed, BE ENSLAVED. If they think it's such a righteous position, let them be slaves.

LakeArenal

(28,817 posts)
5. So has dump's hero, dump should have had the Afghan war done years ago.
Fri Sep 10, 2021, 02:13 PM
Sep 2021

Did dump forget he was president and Lee was just a general?

johnnyfins

(823 posts)
8. Great takedown of the Robert E Lee myth
Fri Sep 10, 2021, 03:42 PM
Sep 2021

I was particularly interested in this line from TFG: " What an embarrassment we are suffering because we don’t have the genius of a Robert E. Lee!"

He just can't help himself with his anti American military speak. The whole 20 year effort in Afghanistan was lost because we had no smart leaders? I'm sure there are more than a few who would disagree. TFG HATES THE MILITARY!!!!!

I now 100% believe every one of those reports about his comments in Normandy. What a shit stain.

NNadir

(33,518 posts)
10. I saw General Seidule, General Petreus, and General Pittard discuss Lee...
Fri Sep 10, 2021, 03:53 PM
Sep 2021

...on CSPAN.

It was a beautiful takedown of the Marble Man.

The video can be found on CSpan's website. It's called "Generals Grant and Lee Reconsidered" expanding on the title of Alan Nolan's wonderful book on Lee, which was titled "Lee Considered," the thesis being that Lee had never been seriously considered but inappropriately lionized.

Comfortably_Numb

(3,807 posts)
14. Donnie is that stupid fuck that hears something, understands half of it, and repeats a quarter of it
Fri Sep 10, 2021, 04:16 PM
Sep 2021

completely wrong. I will say, though, those magats sure love ‘em some losers—Nazis and confederates. They need to replace those ridiculous trumphumper flags with white ones. That would make sense.

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