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IamK

(956 posts)
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 02:43 PM Jun 2012

Study: Children fare better in traditional mom-dad families

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/10/study-children-fare-better-traditional-mom-dad-fam/

Two studies released Sunday may act like brakes on popular social-science assertions that gay parents are the same as — or maybe better than — married, mother-father parents.

“The empirical claim that no notable differences exist must go,” Mark Regnerus, a sociology professor at the University of Texas at Austin, said in his study in Social Science Research.

Using a new, “gold standard” data set of nearly 3,000 randomly selected American young adults, Mr. Regnerus looked at their lives on 40 measures of social, emotional and relationship outcomes.

He found that, when compared with adults raised in married, mother-father families, adults raised by lesbian mothers had negative outcomes in 24 of 40 categories, while adults raised by gay fathers had negative outcomes in 19 categories.
45 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Study: Children fare better in traditional mom-dad families (Original Post) IamK Jun 2012 OP
flawed study mzteris Jun 2012 #1
American Family Association MineralMan Jun 2012 #2
The Moonie Times? Really? LAGC Jun 2012 #3
First Look at Mark Regnerus’s Study on Children of Parents In Same-Sex Relationships Ian David Jun 2012 #4
Comments from sociologists kristopher Jun 2012 #18
Not surprisingly, all three are right on the money Gormy Cuss Jun 2012 #32
Mighty surprised to see this here rurallib Jun 2012 #5
You hope that? I hope the opposite. 2ndAmForComputers Jun 2012 #41
I like to give folks a chance to learn. rurallib Jun 2012 #43
Why on earth are you posting obviously biased Moonie Times crap here? kestrel91316 Jun 2012 #6
More than likely Politicalboi Jun 2012 #7
Ecxept for all those dys-fucking-functional "traditionally" married parents out there. Dont call me Shirley Jun 2012 #8
+ 1 gazillion! Amaril Jun 2012 #24
Review of Regnerus's previously published articles would lead one to believe cbayer Jun 2012 #9
Divorce? ninjanurse Jun 2012 #10
Did somebody just put a pizza in the oven? xfundy Jun 2012 #11
Sure looks like it. UnrepentantLiberal Jun 2012 #22
A fresh pile of mierda from the Washington Times...... marmar Jun 2012 #12
Well, this site welcomes defense of drone wars, woo me with science Jun 2012 #13
**Sigh** I really miss "unrecommend." Behind the Aegis Jun 2012 #14
and the rec a comment feature too. Warren Stupidity Jun 2012 #39
You are not alone in that. Jamastiene Jun 2012 #45
Who did this study? Fuckus on the Family? Autumn Jun 2012 #15
Babble. bemildred Jun 2012 #16
I find it kind of strange pipi_k Jun 2012 #17
I hate it when others further spread such "studies" Raine1967 Jun 2012 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author aikoaiko Jun 2012 #20
Gay families often adopt children from disadvantaged backgrounds. yardwork Jun 2012 #21
Yes they do. UnrepentantLiberal Jun 2012 #23
Exactly. And the families are wonderfully supportive and nurturing, in my experience. yardwork Jun 2012 #26
That was my first thought as well n/t RZM Jun 2012 #27
Links to journal articles aikoaiko Jun 2012 #25
I don't think this should be a huge deal at all RZM Jun 2012 #28
The author is a rw christian pushing his own fucked up views. Marrah_G Jun 2012 #30
Except this isn't true obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #29
Jury voted to keep it, and the OP has been here too long for MIRT to deal with him. One for the mods Ian David Jun 2012 #31
You mean admins--there are no mods anymore. MADem Jun 2012 #35
GBCW? nt Zorra Jun 2012 #33
Horseshit--the actual results are this--kids from broken homes do less well, regardless of parental MADem Jun 2012 #34
Thanks for posting that - Ms. Toad Jun 2012 #42
If we could get rid of gay discrimination & hate in our society, CrispyQ Jun 2012 #36
Is this just a hit and run post, IamK? justiceischeap Jun 2012 #37
Bullshit. The flawed statistics are listed right in the article stevenleser Jun 2012 #38
Bullshit study, but thank you for providing another object example of a point I've made repeatedly Warren DeMontague Jun 2012 #40
B - U - L - L - S - H - I - T tandot Jun 2012 #44

mzteris

(16,232 posts)
1. flawed study
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 02:53 PM
Jun 2012

designed and carried out by one who WANTED that outcome.

I cry foul. Check out this guy's background.

Get thee gone.

Ian David

(69,059 posts)
4. First Look at Mark Regnerus’s Study on Children of Parents In Same-Sex Relationships
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 03:08 PM
Jun 2012

First Look at Mark Regnerus’s Study on Children of Parents In Same-Sex Relationships

<snip>

The Study’s Sample
On that score, there is one significant strength to this study which makes it stand out. Unlike prior studies, the New Family Structures Study (NFSS) is based on a national probability sampled population. This is the gold standard for all social science studies, and it’s extremely rare for a study to achieve that mark. As far as I am aware, all of the studies to date of gay and lesbian parenting use non-representative convenience samples. National probability samples, unlike convenience samples, are important because they alone can be generalized to the broader populations, to the extent that key characteristics in the design of the probability sample (demographics, etc.) match those of the general population. Convenience samples can’t do that. (For more information on convenience samples versus national probability samples, click here.)

So why don’t the other studies use national probability samples? Believe me, every researcher would much rather work with national probability samples instead of convenience samples. But virtually nobody can afford the huge cost of putting such a study together. It is a massive undertaking, and the cost of creating such a data set is just too prohibitive. Regnerus however has overcome this limitation (PDF: 74KB/12 pages) with a generous $695,000 grant from the Witherspoon Institute and a supplemental $90,000 grant from the Bradley Foundation. With more than three quarters of a million dollars, he has the kind of funding that other researchers can only dream of.

With those vast sums in hand, Regnerus contracted with Knowledge Networks, a large research firm which has provided access to its broad, general-population probability sample to researchers for more than 350 working papers, conference presentation, published articles and books. The probability sample supplied by Knowledge Networks for this study was based on adults between the age of 18 and 39 who were asked the following questions (page 756):


“From when you were born until age 18 (or until you left home to be on your own), did either of your parents ever have a romantic relationship with someone of the same sex?” Response choices were “Yes, my mother had a romantic relationship with another woman,” “Yes, my father had a romantic relationship with another man,” or “no.” (Respondents were also able to select both of the first two choices.) If they selected either of the first two, they were asked about whether they had ever lived with that parent while they were in a same-sex romantic relationship. The NFSS completed full surveys with 2988 Americans between the ages of 18 and 39.



Because the number of adult children of gay or lesbian parents is so small, additional participants were recruited who could answer the first question in the affirmative using the same random methodologies used to generate the broader sample. This was done to increase the statistical power of the smaller sample while preserving the random nature of that subsample. This is a legitimate practice for examining very small populations. But for that reason, comparing the total of children raised by a parent who had had a same-sex relationship to the overall sample size would not tell us how much of the general population is being raised by such a parent. And while that was not a primary question to be answered by this study, Regnerus notes that the original raw sample showed that 1.7% of all Americans between the ages of 18 and 39 report that their father or mother has had a same-sex relationship. This is in line with several other studies on same-sex households with children.

More:
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2012/06/10/45512

Bradley Foundation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation, based in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, is an American conservative foundation with about half a billion US dollars in assets. According to the Bradley Foundation 1998 Annual Report, it gives away more than $30 million per year. The Foundation has financed efforts to support federal institutes, publications and school choice and educational projects.

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Foundation

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
18. Comments from sociologists
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 10:43 AM
Jun 2012
...In a series of commentaries published in the same issue of Social Science Research, three family researchers share their views on both studies. David Eggebeen, Associate Professor of Human Development and Sociology at Pennsylvania State University, remarks, "Dr. Marks' paper, by turning a bright light on the shortcomings of previous work, challenges researchers to develop better data and conduct kinds of analyses that allow more confidence in generalizations. The Regnerus paper introduces a data set based on a national probability sample that has the potential to address some of Mark's criticisms. The analyses in the Regnerus paper are provocative but far from conclusive. These very preliminary findings should not detract from the real importance of this paper, the description of a new data set that offers significant advantages."

"Whether same-sex parenting causes the observed differences cannot be determined from Regnerus' descriptive analysis," cautions Professor Cynthia Osborne from the University of Texas at Austin. "Children of lesbian mothers might have lived in many different family structures and it is impossible to isolate the effects of living with a lesbian mother from experiencing divorce, remarriage, or living with a single parent. Or, it is quite possible, that the effect derives entirely from the stigma attached to such relationships and to the legal prohibitions that prevent same-sex couples from entering and maintaining 'normal relationships'."

In a final comment on Regnerus' research, Pennsylvania State University, sociologist and professor Paul Amato points out, "If growing up with gay and lesbian parents were catastrophic for children, even studies based on small convenience samples would have shown this by now.

If differences exist between children with gay/lesbian and heterosexual parents, they are likely to be small or moderate in magnitude-perhaps comparable to those revealed in the research literature on children and divorce."


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120610151302.htm

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
32. Not surprisingly, all three are right on the money
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:11 PM
Jun 2012

1)provocative but not conclusive (other national probability samples or experimental design studies replicating the findings would move the results closer to conclusive.)

2)Yep. Without controls (as in an experimental design study) it's impossible to attribute the observed differences to same-sex parenting.

3)The lack of convenience samples showing catastrophic outcomes is also provocative, enough so to cast doubt on the strength of Regnerus' study design or analysis.

rurallib

(62,416 posts)
5. Mighty surprised to see this here
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 03:26 PM
Jun 2012

hope you don't get beat up too badly.
Washington Time is even goofier than FUX News.
I would look out the window to to be sure if they said the sun was out.

rurallib

(62,416 posts)
43. I like to give folks a chance to learn.
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 08:45 PM
Jun 2012

some folks come here totally confused by the info they have been getting.
I think it is better to treat them kindly and help them understand what is good, what isn't.
Had I been treated the way I have seen some newbies treated here when I first came, I probably would not have stayed.

But if it keeps up, then the responses get a bit more pointed.

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
7. More than likely
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 04:25 PM
Jun 2012

More children from gay parents are Atheists and that gets them hopping mad. How dare they not brainwash their children like straight people do. And what do they expect. Churches for the most part hate gays and are proud of it. These studies are bullshit.

Dont call me Shirley

(10,998 posts)
8. Ecxept for all those dys-fucking-functional "traditionally" married parents out there.
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 04:54 PM
Jun 2012

They leave many of us traumatized and unable to function in the world.

Amaril

(1,267 posts)
24. + 1 gazillion!
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 11:18 AM
Jun 2012

I was raised in one of those "traditional" homes, and I have put myself into therapy 3 times trying to undo the damage they did to me. I have finally just accepted that some things can't be fixed.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
9. Review of Regnerus's previously published articles would lead one to believe
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 04:57 PM
Jun 2012

that he has a tremendous bias in this area.

Bias in soft sciences is a very, very, very bad thing because definitions and variables are so squishy.

I think he has an agenda and I don't buy his study at all.

ninjanurse

(93 posts)
10. Divorce?
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 05:40 PM
Jun 2012

I wonder if the study distinguished between parents who had a stable relationship during the subject's childhood and parents who had affairs, separated, divorced, never married? It would depend on how the question was phrased. A kid whose mother had a romantic relationship with the kid's other mother would create a different home life than a mother who was married to a man and had a lesbian relationship outside the marriage.

marmar

(77,081 posts)
12. A fresh pile of mierda from the Washington Times......
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 06:32 PM
Jun 2012

And check out the lede:

"Two studies released Sunday may act like brakes on popular social-science assertions that gay parents are the same...."

Umm, bullshit. The world is passing you homophobic freakazoids by. Deal with it.


woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
13. Well, this site welcomes defense of drone wars,
Sun Jun 10, 2012, 10:05 PM
Jun 2012

"kill lists," indefinite detention, brutal crackdowns on peaceful protesters, austerity budgets, supply-side tax policy and free trade agreements, settlements for corrupt banks, strip searches, massive new spy centers for warrantless surveillance, etc., etc., etc...

I guess this shouldn't be such a big deal, if only for consistency's sake.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
17. I find it kind of strange
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 10:41 AM
Jun 2012

that no figures were given as to what the negative outcomes were for children raised in "traditional" families were.

I don't know a whole of lot people who were raised by either lesbians or gay dads. I do, however, know plenty of people who were raised in mom/dad families who are totally fucked up.

Including all five of the kids in my family (four sisters, one brother).

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that we would fail 3/4 of the 40 categories, as would many of the other people raised in similar "traditional" families.

I really hate it when "studies" put out incomplete/deceptive information.

Response to IamK (Original post)

yardwork

(61,622 posts)
21. Gay families often adopt children from disadvantaged backgrounds.
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 11:12 AM
Jun 2012

I wonder if this was controlled for in the study.

yardwork

(61,622 posts)
26. Exactly. And the families are wonderfully supportive and nurturing, in my experience.
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 11:24 AM
Jun 2012

The children do much better than they would have done if they had stayed in foster care or orphanages. But the kids do have challenges as a result of their early childhood experiences before they were rescued by the gay couples.

aikoaiko

(34,170 posts)
25. Links to journal articles
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 11:21 AM
Jun 2012

Link to the research article:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X12000610

Link to the second article criticizing the APA's stance.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X12000580

Like everyone else I am surprised by these findings, but I'm also surprised to see it published in an Elsevier journal which provides tough peer reviews (in my experience). This gives me pause to not discount it outright.

I haven't read it yet. Hopefully we can see the problems with it because I've been teaching "no difference in social-emotional outcomes" for years as per many other studies.

Edited to add link to article discussing the above articles:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X12000749

 

RZM

(8,556 posts)
28. I don't think this should be a huge deal at all
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 11:38 AM
Jun 2012

A couple studies came out in a journal. So what? Academics argue all the time about everything. Nothing new at all.

While the Washington Times isn't the best source, the issue here is the studies. I see nothing wrong with this post at all.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
35. You mean admins--there are no mods anymore.
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:41 PM
Jun 2012

The admins will get every alert, even if a jury doesn't see it again.

Ms. Toad

(34,074 posts)
42. Thanks for posting that -
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 07:55 PM
Jun 2012

I saw the link and was skimming the thread to see if anyone had posted the slate article yet.

CrispyQ

(36,470 posts)
36. If we could get rid of gay discrimination & hate in our society,
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 01:44 PM
Jun 2012

then maybe a study like this could be performed, but until then, who can say how much of an impact the cultural stigma of having gay parents had.

I call bunk.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
37. Is this just a hit and run post, IamK?
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 02:11 PM
Jun 2012

Do you have an actual opinion about this study or did you just want to drop this biased BS in a post and watch the fireworks?

The Washington Times, as many have already pointed out, is a right-wing fundy paper... so I have to wonder about your motives for posting this.

There are many studies that have already been conducted on this subject that find just the opposite of this study. As a matter of fact, all studies stating that kids raised in same-sex environs suffer have been refuted as bogus. Yet, dropping this article without opinion makes people come along and question whether raising children in a same-sex household is healthy because it's upheld by this "scientific" study.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
38. Bullshit. The flawed statistics are listed right in the article
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 02:20 PM
Jun 2012

Out of nearly 3000 persons studied, less than 250 were raised in a home with a member of the LGBTIQ community as a parent.

Mr. Regnerus‘ study of 2,988 persons ages 18 to 39 — including 175 adults raised by lesbian mothers and 73 adults raised by gay fathers — marks the first research from the new dataset, which initially included some 15,000 persons.


That is too small of a sample-set to challenge the results from the APA.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
40. Bullshit study, but thank you for providing another object example of a point I've made repeatedly
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 04:49 PM
Jun 2012

that is, when soft sciences like "sociology" are presented as irrefutable quantitative sources for allegedly scientific assertions, people should take them with a grain of salt, because at least half the time, it's agenda driven bullshit, often (as in this case) driven by people with a cultural agenda.

tandot

(6,671 posts)
44. B - U - L - L - S - H - I - T
Mon Jun 11, 2012, 11:12 PM
Jun 2012
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2012/06/new_family_structures_study_is_gay_parenthood_bad_or_is_gay_marriage_good_.html

In short, these people aren’t the products of same-sex households. They’re the products of broken homes. And the closer you look, the weirder the sample gets. Of the 73 respondents Regnerus classified as GF, 12—one of every six—“reported both a mother and a father having a same-sex relationship.” Were these mom-and-dad couples bisexual swingers? Were they closet cases who covered for each other? If their kids, 20 to 40 years later, are struggling, does that reflect poorly on gay parents? Or does it reflect poorly on the era of fake heterosexual marriages?

What the study shows, then, is that kids from broken homes headed by gay people develop the same problems as kids from broken homes headed by straight people. But that finding isn’t meaningless. It tells us something important: We need fewer broken homes among gays, just as we do among straights. We need to study Regnerus’ sample and fix the mistakes we made 20 or 40 years ago. No more sham heterosexual marriages. No more post-parenthood self-discoveries. No more deceptions. No more affairs. And no more polarization between homosexuality and marriage. Gay parents owe their kids the same stability as straight parents. That means less talk about marriage as a right, and more about marriage as an expectation.
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