There's a way to bring down gas prices, but you won't like it

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

A modest suggestion to deal with rising gas prices: Let's bring back the 55-mph speed limit.

Prices were already on the upswing before Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine, thanks largely to a slow ramp-up in oil production following the pandemic-driven collapse in demand. Now the cost is going to go up even more, driven higher by sanctions on Russia's oil and gas industries. We're getting a real-time lesson in the laws of supply and demand.

For the most part, the solutions on offer are supply-driven. The Biden Administration has approached the oil-rich nations of Saudi Arabia and Venezuela — falteringly — about loosening their production spigots. The White House has also ordered that 60 million barrels be released from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. Republicans, meanwhile, want the United States to ramp up domestic oil production. It's "drill, baby, drill" all over again, but it's not clear that any of these moves will do much to meaningfully bring down prices.

Meanwhile, nobody in government is really talking about how to use less gasoline.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/theres-way-bring-down-gas-183643325.html

[underpants]

1. Putting a simple equation in front of people appears to be too hard

My early model hybrid still gets at least 40 MPG. Often 45-50.

Things people can do themselves is just a matter of a few easy extra steps.
I just got a credit card from Shell via Tuesday deals on T-Mobile (they bought Sprint our former cell company). My phone number alone gets 5-15¢ off per gallon. Using the card saves me 30¢ per fill up until June. 27% interest but I will pay our gasoline bill by the 4th each month so it really saying as paying at the pump.

I rarely fill up. Gas weighs 6 pounds per gallon. Carrying the extra 5 gallons (10 gallon tank) adds 30 pounds to carry around for no purpose. Hey are we all carrying around some extra pounds huh?

I buy gift cards at Kroger. 2x sometimes special deals 4x gas points. I buy the card then shop. For a $23 purchase last week I got 223 gas points. With previous purchases in February, I got 30¢ off yesterday. I tried double dipping with the card mentioned above but that doesn’t work.

Kroger points work at Shell stations too. I haven’t tried the card at another gas station yet.

[orwell]

9. While we often concern ourselves with is gasoline price...

...what is more important for all of us is our consumption.

I check prices as well. I do everything I can to lower my energy consumption costs. But I do the same thing for groceries and other costs of daily life.

My partner and I drive old Priuses and get 45 to 50 mpg. But the most important thing we do is drive a lot less every year. If everyone drove 20% less miles per year it would have a dramatic effect on demand and thus prices.

But more importantly, it is carbon that we are not putting in the atmosphere. The real cost of oil is the Western US droughts, the fires and floods in Australia, the melting ice caps, and the horrific future we are leaving our children and grand children.

The cheapest gallon of gas is the one we don't buy...

[underpants]

11. Yes

Well said.

Honda Insight. It’s clearly a Prius ripoff. Not sure how they got away with it. Honda’s low price hybrid model to get first time buyers in. $10K at Carmax. It was 3 years old when I bought it. Fleet vehicle I think.

[orwell]

14. Nice car...

2001 Prius, first US Prius, 45 mpg. Paid 6,000 cash for it used after it just had the hybrid battery replaced.

2006 Prius bought used 1 year old from the dealer (the dealer loaner car). We just replaced the hybrid battery after almost 200k miles for about 2,500.

Both cars are still running well but the 2001 is starting to have old car problems (electric locks, exhaust noise.) Both have 200k or better on them.

Our goal is to always drive less miles each year than the year before. So far mission accomplished.

If I lived in an urban area like I used to I would try to get rid of the car entirely.

[spooky3]

2. I agree about using less, but these analyses often omit the role of

OPEC and oil companies with large market shares. This is NOT simply a supply-and-demand problem when you have bodies that set prices.

[orwell]

6. You are absolutely correct...

...that this is a cartel pricing model. But demand does have something to do with pricing as well. You can see this in data. See my post below.

But your point observation is spot on. OPEC doesn't set prices, they target them through production agreements. But in the end they are a cartel and normal demand supply models must take this into consideration.

[FoxNewsSucks]

3. That will accomplish little more

than providing an enormous windfall for counties, states and insurance companies who fleece the hell out of travelers already.

Instead, ticket and fine those jackasses every time they "roll coal".

Put a gas-guzzler tax on the registration renewal of every one of those gashog trucks, and SUVs which are not used to transport more than one or two people.

[MichMan]

10. Great idea.

Why not add extra taxes on drivers of the most popular highest selling vehicles just as we head into the midterms ? Brilliant strategy

[FoxNewsSucks]

15. Maybe they should make better buying choices.

Last edited Sat Mar 12, 2022, 04:25 PM - Edit history (1)

If they don't want their annual registration to skyrocket, they can always buy something else. That's called freedom.

Tax laws are used to influence behavior. That's the justification for giving married couples a tax break - to encourage it.

And why ticket someone driving 65 mph on a wide open interstate but give a pass to a jerk "rolling coal"?

[NotASurfer]

4. Conservation is the most direct route to making up for Putin's fossil fuels

Some of us have been through this before, some of us remember our parents going through it. Drive less, use the more efficient car if you have two, hew to the speed limit, keep your tires inflated correctly, remove extra weight from the trunk, walk if it's a short trip (uphill both ways to school, anyone?), carpool, defer travel, adjust your thermostat, unplug stuff you're not using that uses a trickle of electricity, fan instead of AC, add to that telecommuting if you have that option, and on and on. When prices were rising mom took every opportunity to put gas in the tank even if it was a couple gallons, because it was just going to cost more tomorrow.

Conservation will go a long way, quickly, toward adjusting demand to a reduced supply globally, and stabilizing prices

[orwell]

5. US Gasoline consumption...

...reached a high of 147 billion gallons in 2019 and fell to 127 billion gallons in 2020. Gasoline prices fell fairly dramatically in 2020 due to the collapse in demand (Covid related). Even a lessening of supply due to the shuttering of production coudn't offset the collapse in demand.

Demand definitely affects price at the pump. But these are lagged effects. A reduction of even 10% in US gasoline demand would dramatically affect the pump price. A 15% contraction in global gasoline demand would probably cut the pump price by at least a third. (Remember to take into account that a significant portion of the pump price is state and local taxes which are not affected by demand and supply.)

The big increase in global supply came when the US increased domestic production through the controversial use of fracking. At one point around 2019 the US produced as much energy from all sources (oil, natural gas, hydro, solar and wind) domestically as it consumed for the first time in almost 60 years.

The most important thing we can do right now to lower prices is to consume less energy as a whole from all inputs. The 55 mph speed limit was an important factor in moderating domestic consumption of gasoline and diesel. That is why I was railing against the repeal when it happened. The economic and ecological costs far outweighed the "thrill' of driving 10 mph faster on the freeway. All of this was predicted by those of us paying attention.

In the end the cheapest gallon of gas is the one you don't buy...

[hlthe2b]

7. Given drivers now seem to think 60 (or more) is appropriate on 35mph-posted Boulevards/city streets

Good luck with that. I can't prove that two years of COVID has any bearing on driving patterns, but damn, the level of aggressiveness among drivers now is insane.

[FoxNewsSucks]

18. My observation is that a lot of aggressiveness could be eliminated

by two simple things

1 - if someone wants to pass, let them.
2 - take away the radar guns and send traffic cops out to ticket the morons who are too busy on facebook or twitter or sending faxes and emails, whatever it is they're doing on their phones instead of paying attention to what is going on around them.

There's only so many times one can sit for 10 seconds after the light turns green because the moron at the front of the line is busy facetiming or something. Or be trapped in the left lane by someone updating their facepost status instead of passing the car in the right lane.

Frustration with that kind of stupidity is often mistaken for aggressiveness.

But since speeding tickets are profitable for the government and insurers, they ignore the inattentive phone users.

[hlthe2b]

20. Aggresssive driver-caused deaths are up in nearly every state.

They are killing people. And one of those high-speed boulevard a'holes I was mentioning? Rear-ended a car killing a family of four, including two toddlers a couple of weeks ago in my locale. So it is on my mind. I've had similar tail-gating me (in the right lane, mind you) on a 35 mph stretch, flashing bright lights, and repeatedly speeding up and then slamming on the brakes at the last minute--in the RIGHT-HAND LANE of an intermittent 4-lane Boulevard with 2-lane stretches. (and I was speeding myself to try to avoid being hit--45mph)


Stopping too long at a stoplight is irritating, but hardly a defense.

[FoxNewsSucks]

21. That kind of thing is NOT what I'm referring to.

I'm not defending that at all. I'm talking about morons doing this



instead of paying attention.

Here's a great example. Can't tell if the trucker is on his phone, but every time I do manage to get around someone doing what he did, their attention is entirely on their phone. The guy in the white pickup overreacts and was wrong to brake-check the bus, but even when someone just wants to get by they get called "aggressive". That accusation should be saved for actual aggression like this.

[Igel]

8. I learned to drive in '76.

And updated it to take into account some simple physics.

My car says 28 mpg city, 31 mpg highway.

My commute is about half roads with traffic lights and half freeway.

I average 34.8 mpg.

While driving a prior car--now just my ex-wife's--I had the same pattern. Except that the same commute for her got her hovering at or below "city" levels for average mileage.

Had a long talk with son--who knows cars better than me these days--and he pointed out that the power curve for cars sometimes makes 60 mph not that much worse than 40. Depends on the car and what the electronics are optimized for. (Still, fast is worse because kinetic energy is proportional to the square of the velocity--it takes 4 times the energy to get to 60 mph as it does to get to 30 mph; maintaining it ... different story.)

[Salviati]

12. It's not the kinetic energy of the car that's the problem...

It's actually the maintenance of the velocity that is the problem, because you have to fight against air resistance, and at those sizes and speeds air resistance is proportional to V^2, so fighting against air resistance at 60 mph requires a constant power input that is 4x the power input to fight air resistance at 30 mph (power = energy delivered per unit time)

That power used to fight air resistance is lost forever to the thermal energy of the air, but the energy put into the kinetic energy of the car can be partially reclaimed, either by coasting up a hill, or through regenerative braking in an electric/hybrid.

Of course that's just one of the places energy goes, the engine also produces a (relatively) steady stream of thermal energy, whether you're moving or not, just because it's running, which is why you can't achieve higher and higher efficiencies just by going slower and slower.

[orwell]

16. Nice post thanks...

...I suddenly feel smarter.

I love it when I learn something new.

[LisaM]

13. I completely agree with this. I liked it.

I felt so much safer when the speed limit was 55.

[FoxNewsSucks]

17. There's nothing stopping people from driving 55 right now.

Why don't they? No one would care either, as long as they don't impede others from passing them.

Since you liked it, do you drive 55?

[LisaM]

24. I rarely drive on the highway now.

And when I do,.I go the speed limit.

But it's virtually impossible to do so,.with the way people drive now, tailgating and the incessant lane changing.

[Ferrets are Cool]

19. Want to lose an election (or two)?

Enact a 55 mph speed limit on US Interstates.

[lambchopp59]

22. I don't know how to pound it through thick skulls: supply/demand

However I know of more collegues who bought a BIGGER truck last year.
I've never had any great thrill of commanding a four wheel vehicle, aside from a short infatuation with this upon first learning to drive.
Two rubbers down--- that's different, fun but extremely hazardous with the amount of traffic everydamnwhere anymore.
Hell no. Driving anywhere is great frustration and stress with traffic and idiots abound.
I'm presently frustrated working in a city that never got it's public transit act together, so driving is a neccessity.
I'd rather take a bus seat, open my book and the biggest frustration to deal with there aside from the rare rude passenger is the danger of getting too engrossed in my book and missing my stop. Any day of any week. Hands down.

[world wide wally]

23. It's not the 65/70 mph that wastes gas.... It's the stopping in traffic and idling!

[Woodwizard]

25. It should have stayed over 4 a gallon after 2008

It would have pushed a lot more fuel efficient vehicles on the market I bought my last truck in 2008 a Tacoma with a 4 cylinder and 5 speed. I need a truck for my business they wanted to sell me a tundra so bad, the lot was full of them because of the price of gas.

Friend of my is bitching about how much it costs to fill up his less than 2 month old truck what did he get? A dodge Ram 1500 13mpg he works for the water dept on LI no reason for a truck at all to get to work.

Out here in the Catskills just about every other vehicle is a giant pristine polished ego massaging pickup going down the road. Conservation only works when it hits the wallet for most.

[lees1975]

26. I've heard this "price of gas controlled by the global market" crap long enough.

The price of gas could be dropped by half tomorrow, at both the wholesale and retail price, and what would be left would still generate biilions in profits to the producers and retailers. As Jen Psaki kept telling poor, mindless, attention deficit disordered Peter Doocy, there are over 5,000 drilling permits issued that aren't being used. There are plenty of reserves in the US, without touching any conservation area, to increase domestic production. But that would only mean that the oil companies would sell it at the currently inflated global market price.

Cutting back on our use of gasoline, just 1%, would have a major effect on the supply and demand globally, and drop the futures price.