Israeli Security is tied to Palestinian Justice

[lees1975]

https://signalpress.blogspot.com/2023/11/israeli-security-is-tied-to-palestinian.html

Bernie Sanders also puts this idea into understandable terms. "For the sake of the Palestinian people, and for the people of Israel, we must create a process which ends the hatred, the cycle of violence, and allows all to live in peace and security," he said.

Santita Jackson, daughter of civil rights leader Jesse Jackson, said pretty much the same thing.

This starts with us, here, at home.

[LymphocyteLover]

1. Sounds right to me. But does Netanyahu or his cabinet know this?

[lees1975]

3. I didn't say that their justice should be our vision for it.

That's just more of the same old imperialism that caused this in the first place.

It's not possible to undo history, so what's it going to take to get there?

[ancianita]

4. Oh, I'm sorry. I posted to the OP and must have hit the wrong button. I was talking about Bernie and Jackson, not you.

I'll delete and re-post it.

[ancianita]

5. Nice words. But neither Sanders nor Jackson even say what that 'process' would look like. They should, because

they wrongly imply that it's up to Israel or the U.S., not the Palestinians or their Muslim neighbors, to provide a process of justice to Palestinians, or even start talks on what that should look like. Words about justice are much easier said than done during this bloody and existential moment, where attacks have been covert and overt over generations.

And while we might want for justice for them to start with us at home, it's a bit presumptuous to think that justice should be our vision of it for either Israel or Palestine.

In reality, justice starts with Palestinians and their Muslim neighbors. Do these countries actually say or think that justice is a western concept? No, not at all. Justice is in the Quran, not just laws.

Palestinians themselves believe that justice looks like a Palestinian homeland state that they want -- from the sea to the river.
Justice to the West looks more like a two-state solution of peaceful coexistence.

Their words just ring like some stand-in for public support, because they know that justice doesn't look like it's on the horizon for either,

[lees1975]

6. Yes, the vision for justice is vastly different.

History has changed it considerably. I think the vision of justice for Palestinians has been changed by their own history. It was much different under the Caliphs and the Levant, changed by the invasion of the Crusades, and changed again under the rule of the Ottoman Turks.

I'm not sure that "Palestinians" today would even have a common definition of justice, under the Quran, or in their perception of themselves as a nation, which isn't completely homogenous. Before the existence of Israel as a political state in the 20th century, there was a Jewish community present in Palestine, along with a sizeable Christian community which still accounts for most Christians living in Israel. There was opposition, but there was also a trickle of Jewish emigration coming in as well.

And while there are plenty of Muslim Palestinians who would prefer a return to the days of Caliphs and the Levant, the reality is that history has once again changed the circumstances, and British imperialism, American pressure and world sympathy thinks of Israel as legitimate owners of the narrow strip of land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River. So their vision of Justice might be altered to accept reality and embrace peace and security.

The same measure of respect and accommodation needs to be extended from Israel. The sacrifices must be equal.

[ancianita]

7. Agree with all you say,

except the idea of justice through equal sacrifice. There are rich Muslim neighbors who have done nothing for Palestinians except use them -- use them -- as proxies for the larger Muslim world's 'death to Israel' mission.

Both Palestinians and Israelis have been victims, but Israel's Jews very nation was given to them because they suffered genocide, unlike the Palestinians.

For nearby Muslim countries to donate land for a separate Palestinian state would be what the Quran would expect as justice, and it wouldn't be nearly the sacrifice that's expected of both Israel and Palestinians.

Equal sacrifice applied to unequal suffering
is failed reconciliation. Equal sacrifice is unequal justice, which is failed reconciliation, and no justice at all. Therefore, no peace.