Juan Cole: Muslims are no Different, or why Bill Maher’s blood libel is Bigotry

[minkyboodle]

This strikes me as a strong response to Maher and his 9/11 liberals diatribe from last week.

Comedian Bill Maher puts himself in the company of “9/11 liberals” who believe that Islam as a religion is different and decidedly worse than all other religions. He said Friday that ‘at least half of all Muslims believe it is all right to kill someone who insults ‘the Prophet.’ His bad faith is immediately apparent in the reference to 9/11, not the work of mainstream Muslims but of a political cult whose members often spent their time in strip clubs.

Now, it may be objected that Maher has made a career of attacking all religions, and promoting irreverence toward them. So Islam is just one more target for him. But that tack wouldn’t entirely be true. He explicitly singles Islam out as more, much more homocidal than the other religions. He is personally unpleasant to his Muslim guests, such as Keith Ellison. His reaction to the youth of the Arab Spring gathering to try to overthrow their American-backed dictators was “the Arabs are revolting.” Try substituting “Jews” to see how objectionable that is.

Maher ironically has de facto joined an Islamophobic network that is funded by the Mellon Scaife Foundation and other philanthropies tied to the American Enterprise Institute, etc. which is mainly made up of evangelical Christians, bigoted American Jews who would vote for the Likud Party if they could, and cynical Republican businessmen and politicians casting about for something with which to frighten working class Americans into voting for them.

Maher is a consistent liberal and donated $1 million to the Obama campaign, so he is in odd company in targeting Muslims this way. So what explains this animus against Muslims in particular? The only thing he has in common with the Islamophobic Right is his somewhat bloodthirsty form of militant Zionism. He strongly supported the Israeli attack on helpless little Lebanon in 2006, in which the Israelis dropped a million cluster bombs on the farms of the south of that country. He talks about how the besieged Palestinians of Gaza deserve to be “nuked.” His interviews with Likudnik Israeli officials are typically fawning, unlike his combative style with other right wing guests.

http://www.juancole.com/2012/09/muslims-are-no-different-or-why-bill-mahers-blood-libel-is-bigotry.html

[ahg]

1. Bill Maher is correct.

You seem to be on the wrong side of this issue. Your diatribe proves my point.

[Raster]

2. Juan Cole on the wrong side? Doubtful.

You seem to be on the wrong side of this issue, and perhaps, on the wrong website.

Enjoy your stay.

[Douglas Carpenter]

5. just look how bigoted and racist scum are welcomed here on DU, They would be banned in 5 minutes if

they were promoting anti-Semitism or other forums of hatred. Yet this filth knows they have home where they are wanted here on Democratic Underground.

The tone of the language used against Muslims in America today even in liberal circles is not very different than the tone of the language of anti-Semitism of 1930's Europe. And it appeals to the same sort of logic, the same basic arguments -identify people as utterly foreign - promote the actions of a few as the actions of all and whip up hatred and fear.

[regnaD kciN]

6. Well, on the bright side...

...threads like this help me from being swamped with forum traffic, as they help me add to my ignore list.

[Raster]

7. I had not seen this episode of Bill Maher, so I just now watched it on demand....

....my conclusion: i refuse to believe that one half of the Muslim world believes it is OK to murder anyone that "insults" the prophet. Sorry, just can't believe it. I think that there are certainly the Muslim perpetrators of hate and hyperbole, whose sole aim is to incite and inflame, but they are in the minority. The vast majority of Muslims are just regular people, going about their lives. The Muslim rage is a product of the industry of intolerance.

[Douglas Carpenter]

10. I spent close to half my life in the Muslim world - the vast majority are nice, decent people like

everyone else. It is the Muslim world that is military and politically dominated by the West - not the other way around. If one talks to any bigot of any kind; racist anti-black bigots, anti-Semites, homophobic bigots or any other kind. They always have a whole bunch of absolute reason to justify their prejudice and they are always certain their particular brand of hatemongering is right. If one digs a little deep we will see that the basic argument are largely the same.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. That isn't even remotely true and you know that!

AS for the tone, it is the same toward Jews in the same liberal circles. Part of the problem are those who keep promoting the opposite of Islamophobia (Muslims) is anti-Semitism (Jews). It is total bullshit.

[Douglas Carpenter]

22. overt anti-Semitism is m NOT tolerated here on DU and will very quickly get someone banned

at least if it is obvious in anyway. There are very few liberal circles these days where obvious overt anti-Semtism is tolerated, It may have once been. But it is not anymore, except in rare incidences. While just in the past week we have seen a flood of obviously unabashedly openly bigoted anti-Muslim comments with no interest whatsoever in controlling it. That is reality.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. Yeah, if by obvious you mean someone screaming "kike!"

Reality?! LOL! Yeah, you see the anti-Muslim crap. Guess what? So did I! What you aren't seeing is the continued and ACCEPTED anti-Semitism here and at other supposed liberal sites.

[Douglas Carpenter]

24. Do you believe that hateful ads full of anti-Semitic imagery would be on display in NYC subway

stations - in this day and age? Do believe that in liberal circles such as here on DU such open displays of religious/ethnic hatred would be heralded as admirable expressions of freedom of speech if it involved openly anti-Semitic imagery? Do you believe an outburst of openly anti-Semitic comments such as we saw here on DU during the last week or so would have happened on DU without Admin saying something about it?

Yes, I am well aware that the Jewish people have suffered more torment and persecution than just about any other group. Fortunately, at least in most of America especially in liberal circles - this has become for the most part -socially unacceptable. It is a good thing that it has become socially unacceptable.

I do not consider criticism of Arab or Muslim states to be racist or bigoted. In fact I agree with most of the criticism of Arab and Muslim states. The fact that sometimes some racist and some bigots may attack the actions of Arab and Muslims states with racist or bigoted motives does not necessarily make the criticisms of Arab or Muslims states invalid or mean that most criticism are motivated by racism or bigotry - especially when they are true.

[closeupready]

27. "sand up their vagina" - wow. Look kid.

This is a forum for adults.

[Douglas Carpenter]

28. please don't ever post on DU again.

This is a progressive website

[ahg]

29. That is why I am here.

How about you?

[Douglas Carpenter]

30. good people don't support promoting hatred and bigotry against groups of decent ordinary people

who are just trying to live their lives. Only bad people do that

[ahg]

31. I don't support hatred and bigotry.

Just making note of an observation.
But I see that you have no problem calling someone a bad person when you have no evidence or clues to rely on. That is bigotry, Sparky.

[Douglas Carpenter]

32. I'm not calling anyone a bad person unless they are promoting hatred and bigotry-- if the shoe does

not fit and if that doesn't apply to you - you have nothing to feel defensive about. If people had spoke up forcefully against anti-Semitic bigotry in the 30's a great deal of suffering could have been avoided. If people do not speak up forcefully against anti-Muslim bigotry these days - a great deal of suffering will be awaiting the world.

[demosincebirth]

3. I agree 100%.

[patrice]

12. Maher? Cole? Which one is the super-expert on Islam? nt

[mitchtv]

4. I won't defend Muslims

the list of Muslim countries that persecute Gays, puts them at the top of the list of religions I can do without. To be fair the rest would love to have the power to dominate their constituents in the same manner.

[Luminous Animal]

16. U.S. Anti-gay Christians accused of promoting homophobia in Africa...

Christian evangelical groups in the US are attempting a "cultural colonisation" of Africa, opening offices in numerous countries to promote attacks on homosexuality and abortion, according to an investigation by a liberal thinktank.

American religious organisations are expanding their operations across the continent, lobbying for conservative policies and laws and fanning homophobia, argues the Boston-based Political Research Associates (PRA).

The groups include the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ), founded by the televangelist Pat Robertson, which has established bases in Kenya and Zimbabwe.

"The religious right [in effect] claims that human rights activists are neocolonialists out to destroy Africa," the report states. Groups named in it vehemently rejected the claims.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/24/evangelical-christians-homophobia-africa

[mitchtv]

17. eh , marginally less dangerous to Gays

than Islam , where the DP is common, and non DP punishment is severe and corporal. And I won't defend christians, orthodox nor Roman either

[Luminous Animal]

19. Thus Juan Cole's point, "Muslims are no Different, or why Bill Maher’s blood libel is Bigotry"

[Ash_F]

8. I enjoy Maher,

but he has a chip on his shoulder and not just against Muslims.

Detailed article. Thank you.

[JDPriestly]

9. I'm disappointed in Juan Cole.

This is a simplistic, poorly documented diatribe. Maher opposes all religious fanaticism. That's my understanding of Maher's views.

Maher is just as critical of fundamentalist Christians as he is of violent Muslims. And I think he condemns violence that is inspired by religious zeal no matter the religion.

Juan Cole is the extremist here in my opinion.

What we need to hear is cool voices advising tolerance on all sides including the Muslim side.

[Raster]

11. Did you watch the Bill Maher episode to which Cole is referring?

[minkyboodle]

13. A Good Question

Maher does oppose all religious fundamentalism of all stripes. However,
he has an especially ignorant and intolerable view of the Muslim world that
is based on hyperbole and distortions. That is the point Cole is making
and if you watch this episode or any other where this subject comes up Maher
makes his views known and IMO acquits himself poorly on the subject. You ask
a good question.
Scott

[patrice]

14. I will look for it, but don't you think it'd take a broader Maher-discourse-analysis?

That is, in order to establish whether there is a significant qualitative and/or quantitative difference between his references to Islamic violence compared to Christian violence.

Cole does say that the synchrony between Maher and Sciafe's memes is "de facto", which we would take to be circumstantial rather than intentional, but it is an interesting observation about an evoked phenomenon perhaps? a property of the internet perhaps?

Ever since the events associated with that trash video about Islam, it seems it is more acceptable to say Islam is essentially violent in its nature and identity, because the video is not a reliable explanation for what happened. On average, let's speculate, the video appears to have been more of an excuse than a cause. It's horribly sad that that resulted in the deaths of innocent people because of the exploitations of the situation by means of security breaches in Libya, but those crimes do not negate legitimate questions about, whether the video was a cause and/or an excuse or not, what do the riots in the Islamic world mean? and Why is what happened in Egypt considered to be practically meaningless in these assessments of "inherently" violent Islam?

[qwlauren35]

18. I'm going to stick my neck out here.

We have riots in America. They make headlines, too. Most of the ones I know about were perpetrated by young black men, primarily disenfranchised, and relatively hostile to the establishment.

I see parallels between American riots and Middle East riots. In the Middle East countries also, there are some very poor, disenfranchised young men who have nothing to lose by rioting. They only need a reason.

Now, on top of this, we have peaceful demonstrations... that get out of hand. We have these in America as well. The Tea Party had demonstrations, and some of them got out of hand. We've had demonstrations in front of abortion centers that have gotten out of hand. Whenever we have HUGE numbers of people assembling, things can get out of hand. Heck, in some European countries, when a football team loses, things can get out of hand.

What seems like a minor excuse to some is rife with symbolism to someone else.

The world looks at what happens in the US and shakes its collective head. We have police that murder innocents, we have gangs, mass murderers and "terrorists". We have become immune to the violence that exists in our own country and quick to label the violence elsewhere. Maybe it's worse in other countries, but life in the USA is no garden of roses for some people.

[cpwm17]

21. If Bill Maher isn't a bigot, nobody is.

He singles out and completely dehumanizes both Arabs and Muslims. He doesn't do that to other religious groups or races like that. It's obvious why he does this. It's part of his racist ideology.

He gets a hard-on when Arabs are murdered by his favorite groups. Clearly some people do not know what bigotry is.

[Quantess]

15. I agree with Bill Maher on most things.

Especially about religion.

[IVoteDFL]

26. I haven't seen Friday's Real Time yet

So I don't know the context. If it was told as a joke, or weather it was meant to be taken seriously makes a difference.


From what I've seen over the years of watching Bill Maher, he insults religions pretty equally and called them dangerous at one point or another. He's equated Christians with hardcore drug-users, and called the Tea Party terrorists. There is a lot I've disagreed with over the years, but I like that he is a no-apologies Atheist. The world would be better off without religion in general.


As for the part with Keith Ellison, I don't know that he is more unpleasant to him than he has been to any of his other guests that's he has had a debate with, especially one of religion. I actually enjoyed their debate on the treatment of Muslims and Atheists in this country. It was from an 'Overtime' segment last year, if anyone is interested.

[t3cblaze]

33. I have mixed thoughts

I believe there is a certain aspect of violence in judio-christian religons, so it is not just islam.

Anyway, I think the religon of Islam is not violent...just how it can so incredibly radicalized over they years.