One step forward, two back for Greece on debt

[dipsydoodle]

Reuters) - Every step Greece takes to shore up its finances seems to make it harder for Athens to make the numbers add up in the long-term, especially when it comes to its spiralling debt.

Monday's 2013 budget plan contained some positive news - for example, the expectation that Greece will have a primary budget surplus, before debt financing costs, for the first time since 2002 - as well as some more alarming forecasts.

Chief among those was an acknowledgement that the economy will shrink again next year, by 3.8 percent, the sixth annual contraction in succession, and that the debt-to-GDP ratio will rise to 179.3 percent in 2013, a dauntingly high figure.

The bottom line is that Greece is in a worse state now than even the most pessimistic forecast just six months ago.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/10/02/uk-eurozone-greece-debt-idUKBRE8910V920121002

[Vincardog]

1. Gee Willakers who would have thought that reducing the money in People's pockets while you give

the banksters an ever greater amount of the pubic funds, would be bad for an economy.

Who would have thunk it?

[bossy22]

3. the narrative goes very litte like that

Banks in Greece are also having major issues

[Vincardog]

10. The narrative goes like this. ! the rich in Greece never paid their taxes. The Banksters helped the

Greek government hide enough of their debt to be allowed into the European union.
The Greek Government gave a lot of money to the Banksters.
The debt was obviously un-collectable.
The Banksters offered to reschedule the debt for a fee, the Greek government agreed to pay the fee.
The Banksters consolidated the debt and raised the interest rate.
And the story goes round and round.

[xchrom]

2. Du rec. Nt

[tama]

4. Odious debt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odious_debt

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2012/03/29/imfs-thomsen-booed-at-lse-video/
http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2012/10/02/athens-troika-team-chased-harassed-by-municipality-workers/
http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2012/05/08/imf-poul-thomsen-i-wanna-go-home/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/feb/01/imf-austerity-harming-greeve

[dipsydoodle]

5. They are quite capable of walking away from it should they chose to do so

but the awful mess which follow that would take about 20 years to sort out.

[tama]

6. Ecuador did OK

Didn't take them very long sort out the awful mess of odious debt, when they kicked the creators of mess out and decided to audit and clean the mess.

[dipsydoodle]

7. Yes but Greece would have to change back to the Drachma

and they themselves wouldn't determine the exchange rate.

[tama]

8. Why?

There is no a priori reason why any Euro country should leave euro to clear out odious debt. There is no legal reason or procedure to leave euro. Germany, ECB and IMF etc. can try to bully and play power games, as they have been doing with some success (SYRIZA didn't get majority), but what are they gonna do, really? Send NYPD Wall Street mercenaries to invade not only Greece but also Spain, Portugal, Ireland, Italy etc.?

[midnight]

9. So would I be correct to say that Austerity shrinks the economy and the cuts to spending that keep a

society growing; while conversely, cutting taxes that generate revenue from the richest in society doesn't grow the economy as they have been shouting at us for decades....

[Vincardog]

11. Yes you would be correct in those statements.

[kenny blankenship]

12. Perpetual DEBT SERFDOM: It's *not* a flaw in the plan,

as conceived by the Unholy Trinity of the ECB, IMF and European Commission.

It's the Plan.