President Offers To Give Republicans The Store, They Demand More -Truthout

[Bill USA]

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/17924-president-offers-to-give-republicans-the-store-they-demand-more

This week the President offered Republicans a corporate tax reform plan that basically gives them everything they want (before negotiations even begin,) in exchange for please allow We the People to have some jobs and infrastructure and education. The Republican leadership pre-demanded additional tax cuts for the wealthy, while rejecting out-of-hand the idea that government should do anything to help the economy or people. Tea Party Republicans went further, saying taxes are theft and and government is socialism, and demanding an end to or at least drastic reductions in government programs that help people, plus the repeal of Obamacare, or they will both shut down the government and force a default when the debt-ceiling is reached.


The President’s Proposal

In Chattanooga President Obama offered a new “Grand Bargain for the Middle Class,” offering huge corporate tax cuts and a huge “tax holiday” on profits parked overseas to avoid taxation, saying he offers this “as long as we use the money … for a significant investment in creating middle-class jobs.”

Specifically the President asked for funds to:

> Put construction workers on the job rebuilding our infrastructure

> Expand our network of high-tech manufacturing hubs

> Strengthen job training at community colleges


Also, the President wants Congress to raise the minimum wage. (Note: 40% of Americans now make less than the 1968 minimum wage, had it kept up with productivity gains. The difference went — well, see if you can guess where it went.)
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[1StrongBlackMan]

1. Did you intentional mean ...

to post this patently false OP?

While it is true, the republicans have asked for a reduction in the corporate tax rate and simplified tax filing, they damn share didn't ask for a reduction in the corporate statutory rate, while closing loop holes ... thereby, raising the effective rate, well above what they are actually paying ... they certainly didn't ask for the mimimum corporate tax, or the punishing of off-shored profits.

And tying all of "everything they want" to infrastructure repair (jobs), incentives for on-shoring of manufacturing jobs (more jobs), incentives for small business investment (still more jobs), can hardly be cast as "please allow We the People to have some jobs and infrastructure and education" begging.

[Bill USA]

2. "while closing loop holes ... thereby, raising the effective rate" ... can you back this up?

You said the President's plan would achieve "a reduction in the corporate statutory rate, while closing loop holes ... thereby, raising the effective rate, well above what they are actually paying "

on the site explaining the President's plan (http://www.whitehouse.gov/a-better-bargain#jobs ) you will find the following summary description:

Simplify the tax code for business
•End incentives to ship jobs overseas
•Lower tax rates for businesses that create jobs in the U.S.
•Lower tax rates for manufacturers
•Cut taxes for small businesses
Create good jobs
•Put construction workers on the job rebuilding our infrastructure
•Expand our network of high-tech manufacturing hubs
•Strengthen job training at community colleges
•Raise the minimum wage

it does indicate an intention to "end incentives to ship jobs overseas" but from what I could find doesn't say anything about closing all loop-holes for businesses thus increasing tax revenues from same.

the Citizens for Tax Justice has repeatedly stated that the President's plan does not increase revenues from businesses:

President Obama Clings to His Proposed Business Tax "Reform" that Would Raise No Revenue in the Long-Run

http://www.ctj.org/taxjusticedigest/archive/2013/07/president_obama_clings_to_his.php

Obama’s Plan Wisely Makes Job Creation the Priority, But Unwisely Lets Corporations Off the Hook

President Obama has once again proposed to reform business taxes without raising any revenue in the long-term. He has shifted his position slightly, however, by proposing to raise some revenue in the very short-term from businesses in order to fund infrastructure and other investments that would create jobs.

While the President’s focus on job creation is laudable, the fact that he still refuses to call for permanently increasing the amount of revenue generated from the corporate tax is a big disappointment. Over the last three years, CTJ has written reports and op-eds explaining why reform of the corporate income tax (as well as reform of the personal income tax) should raise revenue. CTJ also published reports explaining that profitable corporations pay an effective tax rate that is far lower than the statutory tax rate of 35 percent (which corporate lobbyists want to lower), and many pay no taxes at all.

A letter to members of Congress that was circulated by CTJ in 2011 and signed by organizations in every state explains that, “Some lawmakers have proposed to eliminate corporate tax subsidies and use all of the resulting revenue savings to pay for a reduction in the corporate income tax rate. In contrast, we strongly believe most, if not all, of the revenue saved from eliminating corporate tax subsidies should go towards deficit reduction and towards creating the healthy, educated workforce and sound infrastructure that will make our nation more competitive.”

A similar letter was signed by even more organizations at the end of 2012 before being sent to members of Congress.
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Now, if you can provide something to back up you assertion that the President's plan will increase revenues by closing all tax loopholes for businesses, I would be glad to check it out. I'm always open to new information.

The other point of the article is that Obama seems to offer a 'final resolution position' in his opening statement. I think part of the point the author is making is that Obama shouldn't toss out what he may be willing to agree to (after getting some concessions from the other side) as an opening position. This isn't a good negotiating technique.

[1StrongBlackMan]

3. Maybe ...

this will inform you:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/30/fact-sheet-better-bargain-middle-class-jobs
Or maybe not. I'm starting to believe that people see what they want to see ... regardless of what is there ... and even if they have to ignore much of what is presented.

And regarding the OP's "worst negotiator ever" woo? Many would disagree ... including the gop.

You do realize everyone is a mster negotiator ... when sitting on their couch. It's a little more complex when you're in the room.

[Bill USA]

4. point out where it claims to be "closing loop holes ... thereby, raising the effective rate" on

corporations on the WH page you referenced. That's a pretty straight-forward request isn't it?


speaking of your statement: "starting to believe that people see what they want to see ... regardless of what is there"

assuming you looked at the excerpt from the Tax Policy Center article I provided, (with link) did you - see what was there?? - specifically the statement: [font size="3"]

"While the President’s focus on job creation is laudable, the fact that he still refuses to call for permanently increasing the amount of revenue generated from the corporate tax is a big disappointment." [/font]

What about that statement escapes your understanding or,,,, are you among those who [font color="red"]"see what they want to see ... regardless of what is there" [/font] to quote you.


Here's another WH page, dated July 30, 2013, that may "inform you": http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/30/fact-sheet-better-bargain-middle-class-jobs

in the second paragraph note the words:

"the President has called for a [font size="+1"]revenue-neutral [/font] simplification of our business tax code to eliminate loopholes that encourage companies to ship jobs overseas and establishes a top tax rate of 28%"

Note that the terminology: "revenue neutral" means the legislation being proposed does not raise nor lower taxes.


Re your remark:

"You do realize everyone is a m(a)ster negotiator ... when sitting on their couch. It's a little more complex when you're in the room."

... I have almost 3 decades of experience negotiating contracts. I've been "in the room" for a few years.

[1StrongBlackMan]

5. What do you think ...

the effect of closing the loop-holes would have on the effective tax rate paid?

[Doctor_J]

6. this is why a lot of first timers in 2008 gave up

No matter how many times the republicans slap him, he just keeps caving in. The promise of change was bullshit, and the president continues to propose things that could have come straight from Bush.