Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

WhoIsNumberNone

(7,875 posts)
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 08:56 PM Feb 2014

TYT: (Really) Bad News For Religious Conservatives



*One third of young people who left organized religion did so because of anti-gay teachings or treatment within their churches, according to a new study. While not surprising—it's no secret that younger Americans are more accepting of gay people—it puts a number on the cost anti-gay policies can have on organizations. A full 31% of young people (ages 18 to 33) who left organized religion said "negative teachings" or "negative treatment" of gay people was a "somewhat important" or "very important" factor in their departure, as surveyed by the Public Religion Research Institute. ..* What do atheists think about this? Does this spell the doom of the Christian Right? The Young Turks host Cenk Uygur breaks it down.
7 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
TYT: (Really) Bad News For Religious Conservatives (Original Post) WhoIsNumberNone Feb 2014 OP
It's not just gays. longship Feb 2014 #1
Although I am not a member of any organized religion... MysticHuman Feb 2014 #2
I applaud you for raising your children to think for themselves Ex Lurker Feb 2014 #4
Of course that would always be a risk... MysticHuman Feb 2014 #6
Thank you for the thoughtful reply nt Ex Lurker Feb 2014 #7
I root for more Leviticans and Paulines to keep on talking... Moostache Feb 2014 #3
You raise a good point Ex Lurker Feb 2014 #5

longship

(40,416 posts)
1. It's not just gays.
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 09:24 PM
Feb 2014

This has been turning around for some time. The Internet is partially responsible. There are many resources available to the young believer to tap. The new atheism is having some effect. Part of the religious right's problem is that their intolerance is driving people away, especially the young.

MysticHuman

(219 posts)
2. Although I am not a member of any organized religion...
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 09:39 PM
Feb 2014

I raised my Daughters to make that choice themselves. While a senior in high school, my oldest had a boyfriend who's family were every Sunday Baptists. So my Daughter started going to church with them.This didn't bother me in the least. I had raised both my Daughters to live their own lives without me "telling" them how to be. One day out of the backseat of our car my oldest said..."Dad, I am a Christian." I looked through my rear view mirror and said..."Good for you! I hope that you find what you need to find." She was a bit surprised since she knew my stance with religions. But it also confirmed to her that I was not here to tell her how to be but just to guide her to adulthood. She had decisions to make in life and I would support them as best I could depending on what it was of course.

Deep inside though I was very confident that it wouldn't last. You see we had raised out children to be very accepting and non-judgmental of all people. Well the patrons and the Pastor of the church were very very welcoming of course. She loved that...but when they had speakers come in to talk to the congregation they were not so loving and accepting as they spoke of the "evil" sin of homosexuality and these people were condemned to hell. She confided with me with her concerns. I again told her it was her decision whether to support an organization which would condemn a whole segment of our society. She had some very good friends who actually came out to her when they were freshmen. They were still great friends and good people and if the Baptist God was going to condemn them... then maybe just maybe.... they (Baptists) were wrong about this issue. Once she saw this it wasn't long before she broke up with her bf and moved on. Just as I had expected...


Ex Lurker

(3,816 posts)
4. I applaud you for raising your children to think for themselves
Fri Feb 28, 2014, 03:16 AM
Feb 2014

But I'm curious what your reaction would be if your daughter had joined a cultish organization that you considered truly dangerous-something like Peoples Temple or the Branch Davidians, for example. Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not criticizing you in the least, in fact, I admire you for it. I'm just wondering where you'd draw the line, or if you'd draw one at all.

MysticHuman

(219 posts)
6. Of course that would always be a risk...
Fri Feb 28, 2014, 05:08 AM
Feb 2014

As I stated in my above post... I would support them as much as I could depending on what it was.

If either had made a decision to use heroin, I would of course not support that decision. I would do my best to dissuade that choice.

As with a cult... again I would do everything I could to explain my position and perception, yet if they were adults I would have to let them know how I feel and how I understood the situation and let them make that choice.

As long as I could see they weren't doing "illegal" activities... hurting others in the sense of abuse, it would be their choice. It still would be very concerning to me however, I would let them learn through the experience. Once you try to start making the choices for them, they would resent it and pull further away.

Here is an example not of a cult but of something similar ..an abusive relationship...

I once attended a teachers conference for my youngest who was a Senior in HS. One teacher who had taught both my Daughters told us (my wife and I) that one thing she felt about both of them was neither would ever be in an abusive relationship. I found that statement an unusual observation however I understood why. Both were bright and very confident beings with a good self esteem. This told me also this teacher most likely had been in an abusive relationship at some point because she recognized what it takes not to fall into one.

Well wouldn't you know... my 2nd Daughter entered a relationship where her boyfriend was abusive. She was in her early twenties. It was one of the most difficult periods of my life. Yet I had to allow her to make the decision to leave him. As I explained to my wife ...we had to be the positive part of her life more than ever now. My Daughter knew how we felt... we expressed our understanding and how we perceived the issue. Yet we could not demand her to leave. Many times she did... every time we were there for her to support her positive choice to end the relationship. But she loved him and always thought she could "change" him. I quit counting the times she ended it. Each time she would say "This time it is for good!" Then a week later she would be back.

But every time she went back her world went dark.... we stayed positive...never condemning her... never screaming at her to end it...never giving an ultimatum. Just waiting for her to finally come to the real understanding of the relationship. She finally did. It took over a year and a half of pretty much hell for her. (and the rest of us) But we were there for her all along... being the light she could see from her darkness.

This is how I would have approached a cult... always being there... but waiting for them to see it for what is was. We all create the world around ourselves. Many times that world is not reality.... we can see this with many things. Religion is one. Don't get me wrong... religion is a tool that can be used for good and can help someone on their journey get from one point to another... but ultimately we have to learn to live life without someone having to tell us how to be. That we just do the right thing because it is the right thing to do not because we will be rewarded or punished for it. Remember, Jesus was not a Christian... Buddha was not a Buddhist nor was Muhammad an Islamist. Religions are creations of mankind's mind. Each of these Beings had stepped out of the confines of religion and lead with their Light, guiding people to enlightenment.

Anyway... you can see I can ramble...but I hope it helps you understand how I perceive parenting. Guiding the child to adulthood with as little baggage as possible. Then it's their journey. I still get calls from my Daughters when they need a sounding board but for the most part they are now on their own and doing their own thing. I am very proud of both.

Moostache

(9,897 posts)
3. I root for more Leviticans and Paulines to keep on talking...
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 10:33 PM
Feb 2014

The "evangelical" label is already tainted to the point of being synonymous with "bigoted fool"...the more these advocates of The Book of Leviticus (well, to be fair we should call them what they REALLY are - SELECTIVE Leviticans) and adherents of Paul's church (who could not recognize the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth with a map and a real education) open their mouths and spew forth more hate and stupidity, the more that people are waking away from them.

Soon, unaffiliated people will move into the majority of our pluralistic society...and when we do it would do us all a lot of good to remember exactly how shitty religion behaved when they had the upper hand...Do unto others as you would have done unto you? You bet your ass religion, you bet your ass!

Ex Lurker

(3,816 posts)
5. You raise a good point
Fri Feb 28, 2014, 03:19 AM
Feb 2014

There's a school of thought that Paul hijacked Christianity, or rather, someone writing under Paul's name hijacked it. There seem to be a number of voices in Paul's epistles, not all of what's attributed to him is bad, and some of it is contradictory. People in the ancient world had a habit of attaching a famous person's name to their own writings to give it more credibility/authority.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Video & Multimedia»TYT: (Really) Bad News Fo...