'Obama agrees with Putin on MH17 and vice versa. Poroshenko isolated'

[DeSwiss]

RT * Published on Jul 19, 2014

Barack Obama claims the US has firm evidence that the plane was shot down by a missile, fired from an area controlled by anti-Kiev fighters. He also accuses Russia of supporting them. Nevertheless US president agrees to Putin's calls to conduct transparent investigation and says it's too early to say who and why shot down the plane. Ex-CIA analyst Ray McGovern see the situation as isolation for President Poroshenko.

- Yes, here's another installment of the Vlad Report brought to you by the Anti-1% Network. HA!

[delrem]

1. The warmongers won't accept that.

There's supposed to ever increasing escalation, after all.

[dvduval]

9. And by warmongers...

Let's be clear there are trained Russian troops on Ukrainian soil using Russian weapons including tanks and anti-aircraft missiles. Obama is playing good cop to Putin while he assembles ever increasing international support to isolate Russia economically.

[delrem]

17. Yes, you give a very good example of one. nt

[MannyGoldstein]

2. Oh God, NO

Proof positive that Obama loves Putin and hates Obama.

[MADem]

3. Good grief, that Russian spin is as heavily ladled as the old USSR crap.

Those "Russian separatists" aren't letting anyone near the plane--they're carting stuff away, and leaving bodies to rot in the sun.

[dipsydoodle]

4. According to this all bodies have been removed.

Last edited Sun Jul 20, 2014, 05:41 AM - Edit history (1)

Ukraine: Rebels Have Taken Away All Plane Crash Bodies to Unknown Location http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014850913

If the US has firm evidence what's the point in withholding it at present ?

[MADem]

6. BBC is reporting that under 200 bodies have been taken away to the same location/town

where the Russian separatists allegedly fired the BUK missile at the plane.

The (Irish) correspondent is saying there are still corpses in the fields.

[KoKo]

10. Probaby the most intact bodies have been taken to storage

The wreckage and bodies were strewn over miles. There are parts and pieces of bodies that still have to be collected and catalogued with DNA examined. That's probably what is still left rotting in the the area until each square foot can be searched for the bits and pieces which are not easy to locate. Sorry to be gruesome.

Latest I read from Guardian (I think or AP) was that the bodies are being cold stored in one of the towns.

[MADem]

11. Apparently they're in refrigerated train cars in the Russian Insurgent Held town where the

missile originated....and those insurgents have the black box, too. They've cut up the cockpit and they're carting away pieces of the wreckage.

This stinks on ice, frankly.

[KoKo]

13. They probably had to cut up the cockpit to remove the pilots and maybe bodies under...

If the insurgents controlled the area and were first on the scene..they were doing recovery.

I don't think it's as sinister as what you seem to imply though...because I haven't heard they are holding the Black (orange) boxes for ransom or damaged them beyond salvage. There are photos of them.

[MADem]

14. There were no bodies in there, per the BBC, anyway.

One person's "doing recovery" is, apparently, another person's "getting rid of the evidence."

I kind of buy the arguments of the international monitors and the Europeans--that they need to stop preventing investigators from accessing the site--they aren't the "government" there--they're thugs, funded by Moscow, and Putin needs to call them off.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-rebels-take-custody-of-plane-crash-bodies-1.2712459

The key question of who controlled the collection of evidence at the sprawling crash site in rebel-held territory dominated the day's rapid-fire developments. International monitors say armed rebels have limited their access to the crash site and Ukrainian officials said armed rebels took the bodies away from their workers by force....The leaders of France, Germany and Britain issued a statement demanding that Putin make sure that pro-Russia separatists in Ukraine give full access to investigators at the Malaysian plane crash site or risk the ire of Europe.

French President Francois Hollande, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and British Prime Minister David Cameron agreed Sunday to demand that Putin force separatists controlling the site to "finally allow rescuers and investigators to have free and total access to the zone."

A statement from Hollande's office said if Russia fails "to immediately take the needed measures, consequence will be drawn" at an EU foreign ministers meeting Tuesday.

And this is the conclusion that pretty much everyone has come to:

The U.S. embassy in Kyiv issued a strong statement pointing to Russian complicity in arming the rebels, saying it has concluded "that Flight MH17 was likely downed by a SA-11 surface-to-air missile from separatist-controlled territory in eastern Ukraine." It said over the weekend that "Russia sent a convoy of military equipment with up to 150 vehicles, including tanks, armoured personnel carriers, artillery, and multiple rockets launchers" to the separatists. The statement also said Russia was training separatist fighters in southwest Russia, including on air defence systems.

[KoKo]

15. Hey...I understand where you are coming from...and thanks for the link....

BUT....you don't smell a "RUSH TO JUDGEMENT?" Where have we seen THAT before?

And here.......for you: This is where I come from being on DU and living through this with YOU for years:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12691139

[MADem]

16. Not when Merkel, Hollande, and most world leaders are in accord. I don't smell any rush at all...

In fact, they were slow to process the intelligence data before they came to this conclusion.

It's not like they don't have the capability to determine what happened when.

You're not getting much love at that CT thread. Sorry, no sale here.

[JDPriestly]

5. I agree with McGovern that Obama will handle this in his steady, careful, calm, exceptionally

mature way. I have utter confidence in Obama in this respect.

I suspect that the transcription of the on-the-ground conversation among those who shot down the plane and their superiors may be authentic. My ground for that opinion is that the transcript shows that those who shot down the plane were shocked to realize that they had shot down a passenger plane. It is still a horrible act, but it probably was not intentional.

On edit, as a DUer pointed out in an earlier thread, the shooting down of the plane was intentional in the sense that the rebels may have intended to shoot down a plane. My point is that the rebels probably did not intend to shoot down a passenger, civilian plane.

The fighting should cease in any event.

Russia and the US should stay out of the Ukraine. My proposal for a solution to the problem: The separatists should be given a voice in the government of Ukraine, some autonomy within Ukraine and a guarantee that Ukraine will protect the human and civil rights of the Russians within Ukraine.

We shall see what the outcome of the inspection is assuming that the rebels allow an inspection to take place.

I am praying for peace in that area. All of Europe could become entangled in war.

And the last thing the US needs is to become entangled in a war within Russia. The Russian winters are the coffin of empires.

[dipsydoodle]

7. Voice recognition software

would already have determined that or otherwise. Kiev has not commented further on the subject and UK news channels maintain the comment that the recording cannot independently.

Needs a ceasefire and Russia's border to be sealed.

[SidDithers]

8. ... according to RT...nt

Sid

[MADem]

12. Putin's "Reality Television!"

Of course his version of reality has nothing to do with actual reality, but never mind that--he's a strong and fearless leader!!! (Never mind that he's going through his change-of-life, middle-aged crazy period--dumping his long suffering wife, taking up with a young gymnast, getting a face and eye lift...anything to beat back the hands of time...just the kind of guy you want to have his finger on the button... ....)

The Kardashians are less scripted!