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Related: About this forumRejecting Austerity, Greece Squares Off with Its Creditors & Risks Future in Eurozone
By Paul Mason and Amy Goodman
Source: Democracy Now
February 19, 2015
Less than a month after the anti-austerity Syriza party swept to victory in Greece, a major dispute has broken out between Greeces new leaders and European finance ministers. On Monday, talks between Greece and its European creditors collapsed amid disagreement over the future of German-backed austerity. Greek negotiators rejected a deal to extend the terms of the current bailout scheme with no alterations to the austerity terms. Greece is reportedly now planning to submit a request to the eurozone to extend a loan agreement for up to six months, but Germany says no such deal is being offered and that Athens must stick to the terms of its existing international bailout. Lawmakers from the ruling Syriza party say Greek voters had rejected the terms of the bailout and that Greece would not be intimidated into accepting them. The breakdown in talks has raised fears Greece may be on the verge of leaving the eurozone. We are joined by British journalist Paul Mason, who has closely covered Greeces economic crisis for years.
https://zcomm.org/zvideo/rejecting-austerity-greece-squares-off-with-its-creditors-risks-future-in-eurozone/
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)When they also choose an anti-austerity government, the mega-bankers will lose their control of the situation quickly. Europe's workers and poor people will demand their governments reject austerity forced upon them by the international one percent.
polly7
(20,582 posts)I believe Spain's Podemos will fare well and Greece does need to hang on. (Can Podemos Win in Spain http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016111848 ), and Greece has much support all over Europe ('Let Greece Breathe' http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016114488 ). It's spreading fast. Suffering people are finally fighting back and see some hope.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)There must be a fear that it will give us ideas.
If such a movement ever happened in the US the whole rotten system would fall apart.
polly7
(20,582 posts)We're lucky in the west to not be experiencing it yet, the IMF's robber-baron loans and austerity they bring, but there's not a doubt in my mind that we're all already feeling the results of panic by those at the top desperately trying to keep it all, and using hideous methods to do it, electing tools for the 1% dead set on slashing public funding, privatizing resources, medical systems (my biggest fear), trapping people just trying to make a living wage into poverty because they can't afford to live with the constant cut-backs.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)Except perhaps the lucky part...we would have been lucky if it had started here first.
But there is the symbolic nature of it in Greece sense that is where Democracy was invented so to speak.
polly7
(20,582 posts)randys1
(16,286 posts)and join in this
Pooka Fey
(3,496 posts)K&R
jwirr
(39,215 posts)win this or they are going to fail anyhow. Most of the countries that are in the EU have very "socialist" type governments that take care of the needs of the people yet they opted to let their banksters use a system that is the exact opposite. I don't think you can have it both ways. At least not unless they remember what FDR did to soften the capitalists effect on an economy.Today they are at the crossroads. Either they will go backward to free market corporatism or they will move to the right with their banking policies. Their choice.
This choice is vital not only to the EU but to peace. Remember one of the reasons they created EU was to foster peace in Europe. What they decide today will effect that outcome.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)...and I use that term loosely as well as temporarily, is even more a Granfalloon than most of the others out there are. Including our own. In fact it's like a granfalloon, in a false karass, wrapped inside of a Bokononism.
Germany is caught up inside a design of their own making. When Greece sought EU membership it looked the other way at the crooked books because debt is the master of all Central Banks. And Greece was/is nothing, if not DEBT. And not just any debt, but Nation/State-level Debt. That's like having a country under the control of a pawnbroker.
- But the elected officials and employees of Goldman-Sachs criminals who committed this atrocity upon the Greek people, are scott-free and rolling in it.
polly7
(20,582 posts)zeemike
(18,998 posts)I love that comparison.
But for me all that financial talk about derivatives ans such leaves my head swiming...but not so much that I don't see the game being played.
They intend to swindle people out of what is really valuable, their land and it's resources.
How else can you "own the world."
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)But all this only works if you buy-in to the fiat-monetary system bullshit. This is all smoke and mirrors. Money (debt) pulled from thin air. Jacques Fresco said that TPTB will never relinquish control no matter how bizarre things become and I agree. What's the alternative for them? The entire monetary system must fail. Period.
And it will, because it's foundation is all based upon imaginary values -- the idea that a monetary system is needed at all is the main issue that no one talks about. That's the real problem which is why these things keep failing.
- We never stop to ask ourselves should we be doing things this way at all?
Resource Based Economy
zeemike
(18,998 posts)and if you control the first two your labor is free.
I have always maintained that people are poor because they have no land and if you consider that it means most people here in the US and around the world are poor as hell. A few people own most of the land now and the home we live in even if you do own it outright is on a tiny piece of land and so tiney resources.
There are corporations that own millions of acres of farmland and it's resources and we have to buy them from them at a price they want.
So any resource economy must first change that.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)Everything on the planet is held in-common. There would be no need for private ownership of property. We provide, using our best minds and technologies, everything that everyone on this planet needs without fear or favor.
The evolution of the species is only possible when everyone evolves. Not just the rich. I know it's a hard idea for many to get their heads around because we've all been indoctrinated with the hierarchy ideals we now operate under. We know no better.
But there is absolutely no reason why any one person, or group of persons should have more of anything than anyone else on this planet. We are all made from the materials found on the earth. So we are it and it is us. We must claim our rightful heritage from the thieves and ne'er-do-wells now (nominally at least) in control. It is not as hard as one would think because they are nothing without us running things for them.
All a lofty goal indeed. One that we can and must achieve, or something like it.
- But we really have no other choice because the alternative is oblivion.....
[center]
The Venus Project
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zeemike
(18,998 posts)Especially now that technology has made doing it rather simple.
The only question remains is how do we get there from here, which will require a change of heart as well as mind.
If reason were enough would have already been there.
It will take a moment to do it, and a plan...not just to change the economy but the hearts and minds of millions of people who have been brainwashed into believing there is no other way...it will have to be demonstrated to them...and it can be.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)...they come frequently enough, but as a species we've been in a daze.
Sometimes they go totally unnoticed.
In others, we will gloss-over the contradictions in order to void confrontations with reality.
But catalyzing events give us a chance to change directions.
- If we're brave enough to trod upon unbroken ground......
midnight
(26,624 posts)DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)We are watching a display of intestinal fortitude the likes of which we haven't seen in a long while. The Masters of the Universe have shown their brass-feet. They have demonstrated that they can't even run a planet without fucking things up, let alone the universe. It's time for them to go.
- Paradigms shift. Everything shifts or it won't exist.......
I dedicate this song to the newest band out there: THE TROIKA BUSTERS!!!!!
K&R!
polly7
(20,582 posts)something has to give. And Helen Reddy is a treasure.
mother earth
(6,002 posts)There can be a slow road to ending these evils that are at the heart of every single problem globally, or there can be a fast road. We are watching and saluting you Syriza, Podemos and all that will follow.
Let's all stand in solidarity to end austerity. We have had our fill of the economic hit men. Greece, and yes many countries will follow to reject this imposed debt slavery that enriches the few and makes slaves of the masses.
K & R and keep these OP's coming, everyone, let our global community know we stand with them.
Let's not kid ourselves here at home about those who would impose TPP, they are enablers of poverty & the problem globally. Keep shining the light on these issues.
TY, polly7, K & R
polly7
(20,582 posts)DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)[center][/center]
markpkessinger
(8,401 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 19, 2015, 08:28 PM - Edit history (1)
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GERMAN BAILOUT
Germany was granted a waiver on its external debt, including the deferral of interest payments, from 1947 to 1952 as the Marshall Plan was implemented. In 1953, the U.S. also imposed the London Debt Agreement on its wartime allies, which wrote off Germanys external debt.
Albrecht Ritschl, an economic historian at the London School of Economics, estimated earlier this year that the total debt forgiveness West Germany received from 1947 to 1953 was more than 280 percent of the countrys 1950 gross domestic product, compared with the roughly 200 percent of GDP that Greece has been pledged in aid since 2010.
Greece also contributed to the postwar German debt relief. Signatories to the London agreement, including Greece, agreed to defer settlement of war reparations and debts incurred after 1933 until a conference to be held after Germanys reunification. Although Germany paid compensation to individuals in the 1960s, the conference never took place and many Greeks think that more was due.
The bailout of Germany was at least as controversial as the Greek one today. Just like Greece, Germanys tax system in the 1950s was imperfect. Difficulties in changing it had led to revenue shortfalls in the interwar period.
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DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)imthevicar
(811 posts)It has without missing a Payment and has shown the rest of the PIGS nations how greedy Germany is. If they wait for the elections of other PIGS nations they will have unbeatable power.