Obama's Long War of Foreverness

[DeSwiss]

[merrily]

1. Everyone seems to forget that Obama never argued against all Bush Cheney wars.

While campaigning in 2008, he said we took our eye off the ball in Afghanistan to invade Iraq.

In his mind, Afghanistan was the "right" war and Iraq had distracted us from it.

Did he say in 2008 that he would end the war in Iraq, or only that we should not have started it? Honestly, at this point, I can't recall. Doesn't really matter anymore, does it?

Whatever he did or did not say in 2008, he was re-elected in 2012 on "Forward" after people had had a chance to observe him for four years.

[jakeXT]

5. There was always the will to keep a couple of thousand soldiers

In one of his final acts in office, President Bush in December of 2008 had signed a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) with the Iraqi government that set the clock ticking on ending the war he’d launched in March of 2003. The SOFA provided a legal basis for the presence of U.S. forces in Iraq after the United Nations Security Council mandate for the occupation mission expired at the end of 2008. But it required that all U.S. forces be gone from Iraq by January 1, 2012, unless the Iraqi government was willing to negotiate a new agreement that would extend their mandate. And as Middle East historian Juan Cole has noted, “Bush had to sign what the [Iraqi] parliament gave him or face the prospect that U.S. troops would have to leave by 31 December, 2008, something that would have been interpreted as a defeat… Bush and his generals clearly expected, however, that over time Washington would be able to wriggle out of the treaty and would find a way to keep a division or so in Iraq past that deadline.”

But ending the U.S. troop presence in Iraq was an overwhelmingly popular demand among Iraqis, and Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki appears to have been unwilling to take the political risk of extending it. While he was inclined to see a small number of American soldiers stay behind to continue mentoring Iraqi forces, the likes of Shi’ite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, on whose support Maliki’s ruling coalition depends, were having none of it. Even the Obama Administration’s plan to keep some 3,000 trainers behind failed because the Iraqis were unwilling to grant them the legal immunity from local prosecution that is common to SOF agreements in most countries where U.S. forces are based.

http://world.time.com/2011/10/21/iraq-not-obama-called-time-on-the-u-s-troop-presence/

[merrily]

13. We tried to stay past the SOFA withdrawal date, but Iraq would not give us an indemnity

agreement.

However, my post was referring specifically to what Obama actually said during his first campaign.

[JDRucker]

2. We couldn't have known but we should have anyway.

This President really should have been the president of change. Whether you supported him or not, the one thing that I don't think either side expected is that he would simply be a prolonging and renewal of the same errors that have been plaguing the country since the mid-80s.

[Fred Sanders]

6. Hard to lie about the booming economy, isn't it? First post, first false generalization ....enjoy your stay.

[merrily]

14. Can't be that hard. I've seen and heard a lot of lies and half truths about the economy.

[DeSwiss]

8. Which would seem to suggest one of two things:

- Either he was being deliberately misleading in his position on war all along. Or U.S. Presidents aren't allowed to be involved in MIC business.

I tend toward the latter......

[tikibarwarrior]

10. Sadly, I think he was a willing participant.

He never went after the Bush administration for Iraq. He kept all the Neocons in their positions. The passion in his speeches about Hope and Change has now been shifted into speeches about endless war. The video above is correctly assessing the situation as it stands. We got duped.

[uhnope]

16. oh yeah, they aren't allowed. It's a big conspiracy, definitely

decided in a Star Chamber that says "no presidents allowed" on the door.

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. Oh Baby. That's Good. K and R nt

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

4. K&R

[uhnope]

7. Conscientious criticism of the president from progressives is appreciated, but...

Last edited Tue Feb 24, 2015, 06:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Conscientious criticism of the president from progressives is appreciated. Unmitigated loathing from people who despise "pretty much all (of) America," not so much.

"America, is a goddamned racket. Pretty. Much. All. Of. It." -DeSwiss
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017246220#post2

[markpkessinger]

11. Conscientious discussion of the content of an OP is appreciated, but . . .

. . . trolling a fellow DUer's every post with a single quote from a single post from a completely different thread, not so much.

[uhnope]

15. what's not appreciated, sir, is calling anybody a troll

What do you want--some kind of Orwellian doublethink, where I would see that a poster of a video critical of Obama (fair enough in itself) is someone (like DeSwiss) known for blanket condemnations of the USA, and I would will myself not to make the connection that this isn't just reasonable disagreement, but obviously a use of the video as a tool in the service of bashing the USA in general?

Or would you have me to notice that connection, but then just STFU about it?

Let me know.

[markpkessinger]

19. One repeatedly cited quote . . .

. . . does not constitute having a record for blanket condemnations of the USA. And anyway, what is this, Freeperville? Where if you aren't rah-rah-USA-USA all the time you are regarded as a USA basher? Maybe DeSwiss believes there happens to be a lot going wrong in the country right now that needs to be called out.

And btw, I didn't call you a troll -- I called out the practice of repeatedly citing a single quote of another DUer made in a different thread as a means of discounting that DUer's comments and OPs as being trolling behavior. And I stand by that.

[uhnope]

20. ...

And anyway, what is this, Freeperville? Where if you aren't rah-rah-USA-USA all the time you are regarded as a USA basher?

From the TOS:http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

Don't be a wingnut (right-wing or extreme-fringe).

Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.

By the way, I'm not just focusing on one comment. It's not only one blanket condemnations of the USA that we're talking about, but in general apologia for dictatorships and regimes that happen to be in opposition to the USA. Are you telling me you haven't seen it?

[mother earth]

9. K & R, DeSwiss, didn't he win the Nobel Peace Prize? I think Cheney is secretly

living in one of the guest rooms with his duck hunting gear.

[DeSwiss]

17. He's haunting the Millard Fillmore bedroom I believe.....

...they say Millard won't haunt it anymore since he showed up with his face-shooting guns.



- As for the Nobel:

[mother earth]

18. I love it -

Me thinks Darth Vader confused "Millard" with "mallard".

[markpkessinger]

12. Painfully on the mark n/t

[mother earth]

21. K & R nt