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votesparks

(1,288 posts)
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 12:28 PM Jun 2015

Is Bernie Sanders A "Sheep Herder" Candidate?



In this edition of The David Sparks Show, David talks with writer Phil Rockstroh from truthout.org, Counterpunch.org, and more about Bernie Sanders, whom Rockstroh believes is a "Sheep Herder" candidate designed to bring progressives back into the Democratic party tent before losing, and leaving them with the only choice of Hillary Clinton in the final election.

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Is Bernie Sanders A "Sheep Herder" Candidate? (Original Post) votesparks Jun 2015 OP
If so the DNC should be prepared for the consequences - TBF Jun 2015 #1
Exactly, that can and will backfire in a real way. Progressives think for themselves. jwirr Jun 2015 #8
That's just taking advantage of one of the oldest of human tendencies. If your product or candidate jtuck004 Jun 2015 #12
"the standard science denier" TBF Jun 2015 #16
This is one "standard science denier" that don't play that game. A Simple Game Jun 2015 #18
Progressives should never be underestimated. If the DNC has not learned this yet, they soon will. mother earth Jun 2015 #2
Here we go, exploit every angle. zeemike Jun 2015 #3
I was thinking along the same lines nikto Jun 2015 #17
So the only independent in the Senate being controlled NCcoast Jun 2015 #4
The DNC may find millions of under votes cast in the 2016 election. jalan48 Jun 2015 #5
Vote for What You Believe In! Keep Bernie Talking about His Platform/Issues McKim Jun 2015 #6
Not to mention this sheepherder talk only empowers all of us Sanders supporters to rally more. mother earth Jun 2015 #7
A person who wants to encourage us and mobilize us to fight for the things they appalachiablue Jun 2015 #9
This Guy Is a Cynic of the Worst Sort. panfluteman Jun 2015 #10
Is this the second wave assault of "progressives are just stupid and gullible"? frylock Jun 2015 #11
An ideological purist swilton Jun 2015 #13
This man is offensive. Paka Jun 2015 #14
Two kinds of fifth columns: swilton Jun 2015 #15
The Opposition to Sanders HoosierCowboy Jun 2015 #19
SO IF BERNIE JUST QUITS...WE'LL GET THE HILL, PROBABLY AS USA PRESIDENT drynberg Jun 2015 #20

TBF

(32,097 posts)
1. If so the DNC should be prepared for the consequences -
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 12:32 PM
Jun 2015

many people are not going to favor that approach.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
12. That's just taking advantage of one of the oldest of human tendencies. If your product or candidate
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 03:36 PM
Jun 2015

has to be sold, isn't good enough for people to pick up on their own and you want to manipulate people into voting, first get them to say yes about something. A lapel pin, a candidate who is just there to draw them in, a yard sign, whatever.

The odds that they will vote the way you want undergo a significant increase. Knowing that gives one an edge in how to fight it, although the standard science denier will suggest that "this" group won't act that way. Across the board, most will.


A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
18. This is one "standard science denier" that don't play that game.
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 08:13 AM
Jun 2015

I'm not saying they couldn't buy my vote, but I will say I don't come that cheap.

But then I'm a liberal not a progressive.

 

nikto

(3,284 posts)
17. I was thinking along the same lines
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 03:02 AM
Jun 2015

It's seems almost as if somebody is beta-testing different angles of rhetorical attack.

NCcoast

(480 posts)
4. So the only independent in the Senate being controlled
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 12:50 PM
Jun 2015

By whom, Hillary, the DNC? This is nonsense. Bernie is what he appears to be. I know that's an alien concept in politics. And that's what makes him the exception to all the rules.

McKim

(2,412 posts)
6. Vote for What You Believe In! Keep Bernie Talking about His Platform/Issues
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 12:58 PM
Jun 2015

Sheepherder? Hardly. Wait until you see the crowds and the votes. He is putting ideas out there from the Roosevelt Era, and these ideas resonate today in our impoverished world of the 99%.

This is just the beginning of the attacks on Senator Sanders. His ideas really scare the 1%.

mother earth

(6,002 posts)
7. Not to mention this sheepherder talk only empowers all of us Sanders supporters to rally more.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 01:04 PM
Jun 2015

Feel the Bern!

appalachiablue

(41,174 posts)
9. A person who wants to encourage us and mobilize us to fight for the things they
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 01:42 PM
Jun 2015

need to do, is a Real Roosevelt Politician. That's why so many are supporting the Bernie Sanders Political Revolution.

panfluteman

(2,066 posts)
10. This Guy Is a Cynic of the Worst Sort.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 01:55 PM
Jun 2015

I hate the way he starts out using Bernie's Jewishness to tie it to Zionism to use this as a wedge issue. I agree that Bernie is far from being a mere "sheepherder" candidate who just draws in the flock for Hillary. With the crowds he is drawing now, by the time we get to the convention, Bernie may just have the Hillary flock joining HIM. This is just a big smokescreen to obscure and confuse people to the one undeniable fact of this election season: Bernie Sanders is the only REAL candidate out there, who's really addressing the issues, and has a REAL legislative track record of fighting for the 99%. No other presidential candidate in this election season can make this claim. The way this guy is sowing the seeds of cynicism and doubt within the ranks of the left, it kind of makes you wonder if he's secretly taking kickbacks from the Koch brothers, who have coldly calculated that this is the best way to derail Bernie's campaign. After all, as the only real candidate, Bernie Sanders is the only one who poses a real threat to their vested interests. Derail Bernie, and whoever else wins the election, the corporate oligarchy stays in power.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
11. Is this the second wave assault of "progressives are just stupid and gullible"?
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 02:55 PM
Jun 2015

Who the fuck thinks this is an effective strategy for GOTV? Who?!

 

swilton

(5,069 posts)
13. An ideological purist
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 04:53 PM
Jun 2015

I know of many leftitsts (greens and socialists) who will have nothing to do with Bernie Sanders.....We need to confront this argument as there is a wide open field of independents to be captured. Well-known author and political scientist and socialist Michael Parenti posted recently a critique of Sanders on foreign policy grounds (Parenti seemed to like Sanders' domestic policies) that ended with this statement,

Today, I wish Bernie the best. He is a Democrat although he calls himself a socialist and an independent. But he takes very good stands on Social Security, human services, and curbing the banksters. However, he has voiced not a word about what his foreign policy might be. I suspect it has not improved. I will most likely not be voting for him. Probably I will support some third-party candidate who will run a hard hopeless campaign---of the kind we used to do in Vermont years ago.



and this was my response posted on F/B

Have the utmost respect for Dr. Parenti. I also have wondered what Bernie's vision of 21st century US empire is. He has also supported basing the F-35 in Burlington. Of note, w/o being specific, Sanders stated in Keene, NH (6-6-15) that he preferred a reduced US footprint in the Middle East and to let Saudi Arabia combat ISIS. Having recognized the above, I feel from too many years working inside the beltway that Sanders represents an alternative to the status quo domestically. It's a given that foreign policies and domestic policies are linked. While Sanders may not be as ideologically pure as the hopeless campaigners of years ago, he is far from hopeless as a candidate and at a minimum represents a step in the 'left' direction.

I find this position validated more and more...in Sanders' trying to open up the debates and to make the debates about real issues...Such an approach is extremely valuable to the left of the left which never gets presented by MSM. Furthermore, Sanders mentioned in Keene, NH (6-6-15) that he favored publicly financed elections. Such an approach would open up the political spectrum to new ideas and new voices....

The ideological purists - persistence ignores the fact that in Europe where there are 'ideologically pure parties' - i.e., Green Parties, Socialist Parties, these parties rarely if ever monopolize elections but participate in coalition governance....The US has no such coalitions but through Sanders, it can and will open up debates to new voices. The US Green Party and or Socialists would never get their foot inside the US political spectrum in national campaigns without someone like Sanders paving the way. The public isn't ready and the press won't allow them to hear a progressive message. Yes some 'outside the box' candidates may do well in local elections but the US, the world do not have the luxury of time for them to somehow magically appear on the national stage.

This is why I'm supporting Sanders - his impact will go well beyond this immediate election. And no, I do not think he is a sheepherder - I can tell you that this progressive voter will not fall for the trick.

Paka

(2,760 posts)
14. This man is offensive.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 08:09 PM
Jun 2015

A sleasy, nasty attempt to undermine Bernie. I couldn't even listen all the way through.

 

swilton

(5,069 posts)
15. Two kinds of fifth columns:
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 09:04 PM
Jun 2015

We've already seen the meme going around that 'Bernie needs to appeal to people of color' - this is the second one of ideological purity that Bernie can't win/his campaign is a shepherding. To the latter argument I would say that Bernie is and has and could raise so many hopes that disappointment could be unpredictable. As Bernie has said, there's no going back.

HoosierCowboy

(561 posts)
19. The Opposition to Sanders
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 08:41 AM
Jun 2015

Is beginning to take him seriously and the standard Faux News style attacks will begin. This will only serve Sanders by getting him into the headlines.

Hillary has had the free negative publicity spotlight since 2012, which has brought her to the forefront of potential candidates.

If we look at the free negative publicity in the case of the Obama candidacy, it's obvious that calling him a communist, radical, Kenyan etc has only served to promote his candidacy.

Imagine a Sanders getting his Progressive bones by calling himself a Socialist right off the bat, and getting a whole lot of free publicity by the Faux News Hosts having verbal diarrhea all over the Media Markets.

...and already the Dual Israeli citizenship falsehoods circulating will enhance Sanders, because Right Wing Nuts love Israel and will further confuse the issue.

Right wing Bloviators, Go ahead, make our day

drynberg

(1,648 posts)
20. SO IF BERNIE JUST QUITS...WE'LL GET THE HILL, PROBABLY AS USA PRESIDENT
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 09:30 AM
Jun 2015

Which is in my opinion, worse than the present, however nasty this is for so many Americans and world citizens waiting for the US to drone their ass. I don't buy this Sheepherder line at all. I love Bernie for good reasons, the most prominent is that he has been singing this song for decades...he is for real.

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