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Quixote1818

(28,947 posts)
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 08:52 PM Jul 2015

Rachel Parent, Nutrition House and the Sneaky Organic Propaganda

This has some pretty fascinating info about Rachel Parent and her father, CEO of Nutrition House, a health store franchise in Canada worth over $14 million annually. Yes Monsanto sucks and I am sure does plenty of shady business practices but the other side is just as dishonest if not more and also trying to line their pockets. They also have very little, if any science on their side.

Here is the website he was talking about: http://debunkingdenialism.com/2014/12/20/why-rachel-parent-is-wrong-about-genetically-modified-foods/

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Rachel Parent, Nutrition House and the Sneaky Organic Propaganda (Original Post) Quixote1818 Jul 2015 OP
You'r ejust pissed because she smoked Kevin O'Leary GreatGazoo Jul 2015 #1
Debates don't decide science. Archae Jul 2015 #4
I'm not sure how you smoke someone in a debate with gibberish Major Nikon Jul 2015 #5
It's good to be cautious. And there's no harm in being cautious about GMOs... Bubzer Jul 2015 #13
Bingo. Archae Jul 2015 #2
Contraire! I think of natural fertilizer, limited pesticides, crop rotation, and legacy seeds! immoderate Jul 2015 #8
Unfortunately, the picture you have is the minority. Archae Jul 2015 #10
Unsustainable is its own reward. immoderate Jul 2015 #12
There's a good chance it's not real organic Major Nikon Jul 2015 #15
It also depends on where you live. raindaddy Jul 2015 #29
"natural fertilizer" = cow shit Major Nikon Jul 2015 #14
So just label the food. immoderate Jul 2015 #3
Which is exactly why we label food Major Nikon Jul 2015 #6
But it is not exactly labeled. (And who is "we?" "I" would do it differently.) immoderate Jul 2015 #7
Food isn't labeled Major Nikon Jul 2015 #9
Not ALL about what's in it. immoderate Jul 2015 #11
Except it is "ALL about what's in it" Major Nikon Jul 2015 #16
Those rules don't include the word "genetic" anywhere. immoderate Jul 2015 #17
Yeah, imagine that Major Nikon Jul 2015 #19
Uh-huh. Science is a wonderful thing -- when used responsibly. immoderate Jul 2015 #21
Whatever that means Major Nikon Jul 2015 #22
Frogga, witha no legs -- becoma deaf! immoderate Jul 2015 #26
Beholo bil ocesepe yoleda. Arg;e-Barg;e! Major Nikon Jul 2015 #31
This Guy Himself Offers So Many Unsubstantiated Claims That GMOs Are "Safe" panfluteman Jul 2015 #18
You can just as easily say there's evidence Rock-n-Roll causes devil worship Major Nikon Jul 2015 #20
Actually, no cprise Jul 2015 #23
Here's another one you should like Major Nikon Jul 2015 #25
Let's take a BS Break and hear some "Science", yeah, science, not BS drynberg Jul 2015 #24
He is so full of half truths and leaps of logic that he really is difficult to understand. fasttense Jul 2015 #27
+ 1 LiberalLovinLug Jul 2015 #28
Thank deregulation and Monsanto for destroying the public's image of GMOs.. raindaddy Jul 2015 #30

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
5. I'm not sure how you smoke someone in a debate with gibberish
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 10:24 PM
Jul 2015

Her first two assertions were lies and it didn't get any better from there. All she did was parrot out debunked nonsense she doesn't even understand.

Bubzer

(4,211 posts)
13. It's good to be cautious. And there's no harm in being cautious about GMOs...
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 11:23 PM
Jul 2015

however, the science largely indicates that they're safe.

Archae

(46,337 posts)
2. Bingo.
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 09:12 PM
Jul 2015

We hear "organic" and we think of a bunch of hippie farmers dancing to "Inch By Inch" as they sing to the plants.

In reality most organic is just as industrialized as farming as is the usual farm.

In fact some, more so.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/business/organic-food-purists-worry-about-big-companies-influence.html?pagewanted=1&ref=general&src=me

 

immoderate

(20,885 posts)
8. Contraire! I think of natural fertilizer, limited pesticides, crop rotation, and legacy seeds!
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 10:54 PM
Jul 2015

Hippies are optional!

--imm

Archae

(46,337 posts)
10. Unfortunately, the picture you have is the minority.
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 11:10 PM
Jul 2015

A very small minority.

The big corporations bought out the smaller companies.

If you want real organic, try your local farmer's market.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
15. There's a good chance it's not real organic
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 11:32 PM
Jul 2015

Organic certification is expensive and generally reserved for larger scale farming. Much of what you find at farmers markets isn't certified organic even if that's what they claim.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
29. It also depends on where you live.
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 08:17 PM
Jul 2015

Here in CA there are lots of small family and medium size farms. There are also local alternatives to Whole Foods.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
14. "natural fertilizer" = cow shit
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 11:29 PM
Jul 2015
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/06/us-ecoli-beansprouts-idUSTRE7552N720110606

"limited pesticides"

The amount of pesticides used is far less relevant than toxicity and persistence. Some of the pesticides used by the organic industry are far more toxic than their conventional agriculture alternatives, persist far longer, and some aren't even organic.

"crop rotation"

Also commonly used with GMO crops.

"legacy seeds"

What you are thinking about is outdated and hardly relevant today. In 1965 (well before GMO), 95% of all corn planted in the US was F1 hybrid. Non-GMO seed used commercially can and usually is patented, hybridized, and can't be efficiently saved and reused because either the seed is sterile or is far less commercially viable compared to the first generation hybrid.
 

immoderate

(20,885 posts)
7. But it is not exactly labeled. (And who is "we?" "I" would do it differently.)
Sat Jul 11, 2015, 10:49 PM
Jul 2015

That would tell us what's in it.

--imm

 

immoderate

(20,885 posts)
17. Those rules don't include the word "genetic" anywhere.
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 12:00 AM
Jul 2015

Wouldn't that apply to a "substance?"

--imm

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
19. Yeah, imagine that
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 02:01 AM
Jul 2015

That's because "corn" is a word that actually means something. Corn produced by GM = corn. Corn produced by an F1 hybrid = corn. Regardless of how it's produced the "substance" of corn, i.e. the species is the same.

For further reading of words, see...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maize

Virtually everything you eat has had it's "genetic" material modified by one or multiple methods.


 

immoderate

(20,885 posts)
21. Uh-huh. Science is a wonderful thing -- when used responsibly.
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 03:58 AM
Jul 2015

And you can only get some generic stuff called just plain "corn" in your market?



--imm

panfluteman

(2,065 posts)
18. This Guy Himself Offers So Many Unsubstantiated Claims That GMOs Are "Safe"
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 01:42 AM
Jul 2015

That I couldn't make it all the way through this video, and had to ditch it. At least Jeffrey Smith substantiates his claims with facts and studies. This guy just flat out says that there are no credible studies that have shown the dangers of GMO foods, which is patently false and ridiculous. And there's a mountain of epidemiological evidence and correlation between the advent and rise of GMOs and the growth of certain chronic diseases and disorders. Infertility is a good example. Back in the 80s, before the introduction of GMOs, it was very rare. Now it's so widespread that acupuncturists and other health care practitioners are building very lucrative practices around this disorder alone. Another disorder that parallels the introduction and rise of GMOs very nicely is gluten sensitivity and multiple food allergies. And this fits in very closely with the findings of pathologists who have studied which organs and tissues of the body are most directly and seriously affected by GMOs: reproductive organs, GI mucosa and probiotic bacteria in the gut being some of the cells / tissues that are hardest hit by GMOs.

GMO health disorder denialism is quite similar to denialism of climate change, as well as of the dangers of fracking to our water supply. The evidence is just so obvious and overwhelming, and will become more and more so, until it will become impossible to deny. And like climate change and fracking, GMOs and GMO agriculture are posing severe ecological threats to the balance and sustainability of life on our planet.

cprise

(8,445 posts)
23. Actually, no
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 08:12 AM
Jul 2015

An argument could be made that people who are drawn to devil worship (however one defines that) are also drawn to rock music due to some incidental correlation.

But you can't really make the case that correlation between illness and pesticides (or GMOs) is mere coincidence or due to some innocent factor; Saying that people who are naturally predisposed to illness seek out pesticide-laden foods or neighborhoods is silly.

BTW, the OP reminds me of global warming deniers complaining about the evil influences of the renewable energy industry lobbyists.

"Big Organic Gonna Getcha!" LOL!

drynberg

(1,648 posts)
24. Let's take a BS Break and hear some "Science", yeah, science, not BS
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 08:37 AM
Jul 2015

This is about Bill Nye's revelations after spending some time with the folks at Monsanto...


What Bill Nye Got Wrong in His About-Face on GMOs

The Science Guy’s errors let the pesticide/biotech industry off the hook.

By Doug Gurian-Sherman and Margaret Mellon on June 3, 2015
Subscribe

19.9K 2179 Tumblr6 Google +11 15


Earlier this year, Bill Nye, renowned as the “science guy,” made news for changing his mind about genetic engineering (or GMOs) after a visit to Monsanto, the pesticide and seed giant at the forefront of the biotechnology industry.

Nye is an emblematic science educator, who has done a lot to kindle the interest of young people in science, to defend the validity of evolutionary science, and raise awareness about climate change. Until recently, he spoke and wrote about GMOs as environmentally risky technology.

In a video shot backstage after an appearance in March on Bill Maher’s “Real Time,” Nye told an interviewer that he was revising the chapter about GMOs in his latest book. “I went to Monsanto, and I spent a lot of time with the scientists there, and I have revised my outlook, and I’m very excited about telling the world,” he said.

So what did Nye learn at Monsanto headquarters that changed his mind? In a recent interview with the Huffington Post, Nye said that he does not believe genetically engineered crops are inherently bad. To the contrary, he said he now believes that they have been beneficial to agriculture.

To illustrate his point, he explained that GMO crops “put the herbicides and pesticide inside the plant, rather than spraying it on them and having it run down into streams.”

In the case of herbicides, Nye is simply incorrect, and it’s an important error to point out.

More Herbicides, Not Less

GMO herbicide-resistant crops are made to withstand the spraying of herbicides, primarily glyphosate (or Roundup), in quantities that would otherwise kill them. GMO Bt crops, on the other hand, are engineered to produce an insecticidal toxin within the plant. Rather than decreasing toxic pesticides in streams, the former products contribute to their presence. Glyphosate is now widely detected in our country’s water, according to government scientists. And recently, a major, independent body of scientists determined that glyphosate is probably carcinogenic, raising the stakes.

Compounding these problems, herbicide-resistant GMOs have led to an explosion in herbicide use due to the emergence of herbicide-resistant weeds. Monsanto genetically engineered corn, soy, cotton, and more recently alfalfa and sugar beets, to resist herbicides, and by 2012 their use led to an estimated 527 million more pounds of herbicide being used in the U.S. than if these crops had not been commercialized.

This was great news for Monsanto, which sells both GMO seeds and pesticides, but not for the environment. The emergence of glyphosate-resistant weeds has led us backward, away from weed control strategies that work with the environment, and toward monoculture (farming that relies on growing the same crop every year)—the opposite of the diverse cropping system Nye says he wants.

To deal with the problem of resistant weeds, Monsanto and other pesticide companies are doubling down with GMO crops that can withstand a combination of glyphosate and old herbicides like dicamba and 2,4-D, setting the stage for the evolution of weeds resistant to multiple herbicides and even further escalation of herbicide use.

These glyphosate-resistant weeds are a direct result of GMO crops and the herbicide used on them. Resistant weeds arise in response to herbicide use—susceptible weeds are killed, leaving rare individuals that carry a resistance gene. The greater and more continuous the herbicide use, the faster resistant weeds arise, and the faster they spread. GMO crops allowed much greater use of glyphosate, and encouraged more continuous use because of their convenience. There was only one weed resistant to glyphosate prior to the emergence of genetic engineering, despite the fact that it had been sprayed for nearly 20 years beforehand. There are now 14 glyphosate-resistant weeds in the U.S. alone.

As these weeds appear on more farms, the market for herbicides is exploding—a fact that might explain Monsanto’s desire to acquire Syngenta, the world’s largest seller of pesticides (a large class of chemicals that include herbicides).

It is hard to see how Nye could have so misunderstood this. After all, herbicide resistance is the primary commercial application of GMO crops in the U.S. and worldwide.

Nye understands that industrial agriculture causes big ills, including reduced biological diversity and increased chemical pollution. But he fails to recognize that the major applications of GMO crops are intimately entwined with that system, and actually contribute to it.

The Monarch Connection


Nye commendably noted his concern about the 90 percent decline in the population of the monarch butterfly, which he calls “catastrophic.”

Several research studies have linked the loss of milkweed, the sole food of monarch caterpillars, directly to glyphosate use on engineered crops. But Nye inexplicably dismisses the connection between monarch decline and GMOs, and lets biotech off the hook by blaming the monarch demise on industrial monoculture generally. In the Huffington Post video, he blames it on, “the efficiency of farming and the expansion of cities.”

But glyphosate is especially toxic to milkweed. In Iowa and the surrounding states through which monarchs migrate, glyphosate has virtually eliminated milkweed from corn and soy fields. Before GMO crops were introduced 20 years ago, enough milkweed remained in crop fields to support a healthy population of monarchs despite the use of “efficient,” “modern” farming.

Nye spoke favorably about the plans Monsanto and Cargill have announced to establish new habitat for butterflies now that the milkweed is gone. And indeed habitat enhancement is welcome. But there is likely too little land for milkweed outside crop fields to support the butterflies, because so much of the Midwest is devoted to corn and soybeans.

Nye did not mention that the best way to protect the monarch is to limit the use of glyphosate (and other pesticides) and allow milkweed to harmlessly exist alongside crops in the fields.

Nye also gives GMO crops undue credit for raising productivity over the last 150 years, when in fact it has only been commercialized for about 20 years. In fact, genetic engineering has contributed only marginally to crop productivity since it was first commercialized, for only a few crops, and much less than other technologies.

So back to the original question: What did Bill Nye learn from Monsanto?

Everyone has a right to change their minds. But Nye is an important science educator who could contribute positively to the understanding of the complex issues swirling around the GMO debate. Either way, if he’s going wade into the debate, he has to get the science right.
- See more at: http://civileats.com/2015/06/03/what-bill-nye-got-wrong-in-his-about-face-on-gmos/#sthash.XPaqTQ3J.dpuf

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
27. He is so full of half truths and leaps of logic that he really is difficult to understand.
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 12:22 PM
Jul 2015

So, why can't raising healthy food be profitable? That seems to be his biggest talking point that some people are making a decent profit off of organics and sustainable foods and he wants it to stop and every one should give their money for more poison saturated GMOs. And the problem with making a profit on healthy foods without chemicals is what? Monsanto makes money by pouring kidney destroying poisons all over their crops and hiding their crops in processed foods without identifying it. But don't make money by selling healthy food and identifying it. He can't seem to bear that thought.

Some people do cheat the system as does Monsanto. Capitalism encourages that. So, yes buyers consider the source of your food. Don't buy from a huge organic corporation and expect to be getting real organics unless you check the farm out carefully. Don't expect a huge LLC that has everything from pasture raised meat, to eggs, to raw milk, to weekly vegetable baskets filled with every kind of vegetable to be actually raising all that food.

But this random guy who made a video and put it on the Internets thinks you should NOT use that same due diligence on the Monster food Monsanto wants to dump on you. We who grow organically are proud of it and label all our produce to show it. So why does Monsanto want to real quiet about their GMO foods? Why aren't GMO growers advertising their GMO foods?

I am a Certified Naturally Grown (CNG) small farmer. I can NOT afford the organic label. But if you look into CNG, you will find it is very similar to organic. I can provide you with healthy sustainable food at a little bit lower price than organic in a market an hour from my farm. I raise lamb, eggs, gourmet mushrooms and some vegetables. I do it all without petroleum based fertilizers (check out the benefits of sheep manure and mushroom compost vs cow or horse manure, it is much better for farming naturally) or chemical pesticides (chickens are the best insect control you will ever get). I never use Round Up which will one day destroy all our kidneys (check out the epidemic of kidney failure and death associated with Round Up in South America). I only give antibiotics to grown sheep (not the ones for slaughter) if without it they will die. I had a ewe who cut her leg to the bone and without an antibiotic, she would have died from the infection. We use her only for breeding stock not meat sales. I use no growth hormones, steroids or feedlots even though the FDA approved them for use in sheep.

I have customers come to visit to checkout my sheep (the lambs are adorable (we had 16 born this year without pulling any of them) and the sheep like to be scratched behind their ears.) I invite all my customers to come see for themselves anytime. And for those customers who can't make the hour long trip I take many, many pictures. I have pictures of my new lambs right next to pictures of my children. I will guarantee you that my food is better for you. I guarantee you that the CEO and major shareholders of Monsanto are eating food like I raise and are NOT eating the chemical poison laced foods they create.

So, if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for the rest of us.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,174 posts)
28. + 1
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 04:56 PM
Jul 2015

Great to hear. I wish you success.

Seriously, this guy has zero proof or sources for his claims that this young woman is being dishonest and just a front for her dad's business. And why is making money promoting natural health products such a terrible thing? But Monsanto is great making GMO food laced with poison and making billions more than her father?

And there is scientific evidence out there. You just have to look for it.

http://www.gmoevidence.com/


The damage has not been proven for the actual end product that you put in your mouth. But that may come once we have had a generation of guinea pigs raised on GMO foods. But that does not address the harm raised by round-up and other herbicides that are used in the process to get to that final product. Small animals that are affected with death and deformities. Even human deformities. Cross seed contamination with other farms.

What is it with this double standard that only companies that harm the earth, like Big Oil, or the MIC, or Monsanto, are entitled to make obscene profits, but companies that are about organics, or natural health, (whether they can always 100% back up their claims or not) are criticized fervently for making a profit? It reminds me of the RW attacks on Al Gore for daring to make money on any endeavor he makes to bring awareness to global warming.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
30. Thank deregulation and Monsanto for destroying the public's image of GMOs..
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 08:33 PM
Jul 2015

Monsanto's predator business practices, trying to control the market, suing small farmers, combining GMO seeds with a questionable pesticide has made the public suspicious for good reason.

Want to place blame, place it on deregulated marketplace and Monsanto...

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