Video & Multimedia
Related: About this forumrjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)I'm scared. As a Clinton supporter I'm the big bad establishment!
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)Can't get more "establishment" than the Clintons - if you support her bid, you support the establishment.
Meanwhile, the rest of us have long since come to understand that it is this very establishment which stands in the way of any real solutions to the corporate-overlords problem.
RiverNoord
(1,150 posts)Even a shot across the bows such as a Bernie Sanders presidency would be a tiny beginning.
The revolving-door culture, corporate sponsorship of our entire election infrastructure, the labyrinth of legalized bribery, comfy lobbyist jobs waiting for every single legislator and regulator willing to play ball, stealth legislation written by the businesses that seem to be 'regulated' by the legislation they've carefully designed, a shadow government of military officers and the vast, intricate web of businesses whose profits depend on the management of American military policy,...
These are very deeply entrenched, powerful interests, who simply can't afford to let themselves be relegated to ordinary 'we make and sell stuff' status.
But, at least, it would be something rather than nothing.
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)Me and the majority of African Americans are establishment.
By the way the post didn't say "support the establishment." It said "are the establishment."
And it's folks like you who convince me not to even consider voting for Bernie Sanders.
I'm gonna bet you are white and middle class, and likely educated. You, my friend, are the establishment. You just don't know it. It gives you the privilege to think silly, childish utopian thoughts.
Gore1FL
(21,138 posts)To suggest Sanders represents the establishment and Clinton does not is pretty fucking laughable.
Additionally, if someone's supporters make you so butthurt that you won't support a candidate, you are easily manipulated.
Furthermore, "Utopia" is not in either candidate's platform. Your poor attempt at hyperbole was the cherry on an otherwise untenable post.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)being an anti-establishment progressive..
How can you pretend to be a progressive while citing Nixon's old Sec. of State Henry Kissinger as your mentor?
Pretty much shows how far to the right the Democratic party has shifted, they're actually running a candidate who's foreign policy idol is Henry Kissinger.. Pretty much the canary in the mineshaft..
Raster
(20,998 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)...and Bill hangs out with the Bush Family (Evil Empire).
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)"Doesn't even know how to fake being an anti-establishment progressive."
This would make a good thread on its own-- Hillary's finest fails.
Cher
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)How can you support someone who has so little minority support? Or someone who won't stand up against the gun lobby? Or a communist?
See how that smearing game works? One insinuation of something you don't like is enough to dismiss someone's entire career and call them personally corrupt.
Hillary is going to wipe Bernie out in a few more weeks. Then we'll see.
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)Did Hillary say that Kissenger was her mentor or not? I think that tells us something about who Hillary Clinton is and possibly a little about her foreign policy decisions.
Bernie's working to increase his minority support, so I have no problem with your first statement.
The second and third statments are simply lies...
If Hillery does end up in the White House, and her foreign policy shifts to the right of Obama, here's the red flag...Spoken directly from the mouth of your candidate. And you thought it was a smear..
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)is when what you pick out to slam every aspect of a candidate's essence is unfair. Period.
You can do it with their own words easy. I can find Bernie quoted saying "gun manufacturers shouldn't be sued" and based on that say he's a no good fun-loving mass killing loving violent man pretending he's progressive.
Same bullshit different day. Hillary has problems of course. She's not perfect. But she's not the satanic figure the worst of the Bernie nuts keep stridently insisting she is. And every time you do that it hurts your credibility with reasonable people who can see a complex situation and not leap to condemn anyone we disagree with as an evil person.
Just to be clear that you aren't arguing with an abstraction here: I was an undecided NY democratic voter until recently. I am now voting for Clinton. And the biggest reason why is that I find the "uncompromising" rageful misogynistic Hillary-bashing Bernie supporters I meet to be just as scary as right wingers who talk the same way about Clinton as an evil monster.
Fuck that. It's mostly misogyny and I'm voting to stop it. Go join Trump if you want to mock women.
RiverNoord
(1,150 posts)But you sure are a useful, willing pawn, it would seem.
If you really don't see the big picture, the reality that our national government is basically owned by Big Money (and many state governments as well), then, I can see why you consider discussion of the 'establishment' as snarky.
Ignorance is bliss.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Dustlawyer
(10,497 posts)the pocket of these corporations who have made her and Bill immensely wealthy and have donated over a billion dollars to get and keep them in office, or do they simply not care about that end of it and like living under corporate rule. What is the attraction?
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)yellerpup
(12,253 posts)I love this!
RiverNoord
(1,150 posts)'Look, if we tell the racists to back off, like, sternly, it'll all work out eventually. But school desegregation, 'separate but equal,' keeping people with dark skin away from polling places, you just can't end all that stuff. Come on, man, you know that - you're just giving people false hope.'
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)More War.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)not my image but I may have to do one to add that.
840high
(17,196 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)RiverNoord
(1,150 posts)For most, I think (and I may be wrong), we're loony conspiracy theorists and just making up crazy nonsense. Because we're really sexist jerks who've been bombarded by right-wing Clinton-hate for so long that we can't see how decent and worthy she really is.
They are appalled by how unfair this all is to Hillary Clinton, who has worked really hard to accomplish so much (what, exactly, I'm not sure, but it's apparently a lot).
Which, of course, means that Sanders and Clinton supporters seldom have substantive discussions, as the fundamental basis for our support of Sanders is a myth to them.
Umbral18
(105 posts)Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)Yallow
(1,926 posts)Right Clinton Fans?
So if Bernie gets elected and can push through campaign finance reform, how many billions in ad revenue would dry up for CNN/MSNBC?
Who butters their bread?
No wonder they are acting like part of the Clinton Campaign.
Some of us are sick of it by the way.
What, am I a liar too?
Am I lying about "her" today?
Not.
Rachel should be doing her show with a Hillary shirt on.
revbones
(3,660 posts)Unless her campaign wants The Daily Beast or DailyNewsBin to do it first...
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)has received a few thousand less than HRC , he is therefore without sin? yall crack me up
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)or his superpac?
Well, since he doesn't have a superpac. . .
We'll await your well researched again while you tell us all how great the Kissinger and Nancy Reagan loving, DOMA supporting, Iraq War supporting, Wal-mart board member, lying about Bosnia and landing under fire, owned by the too big to fail banks Goldwater Girl is.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)hopeforchange2008
(610 posts)that shows Hilary's top industry making donations is securities and investment to the tune of over $21,000,000. Yowzah!
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)If u take less of the Devil's money , does it make u the pure one?
Funny u didn't list all the Devil's money that Bern has taken...... yall crack me up
hopeforchange2008
(610 posts)I was simply supporting your resource and pointing out interesting information.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)you sure showed me how corrupt bernie is...now, why is hillary second on that list.
you hrc marks really love your goldwater girl. how does it feel to sell your soul to someone who admires kissinger, voted for the iraq war and supported, not only doma, but dadt?
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)I never said HRC didnt take any of the Devil's money
U need to explain how taking less of the Devils money makes u pure.
polly7
(20,582 posts)One of them has worked all his life fighting to make better the lives of others ...... one has traveled and spoke to multinational corporations and the 1% eliminating the middle-class for millions in personal profit, granted weapons to human rights abusers through their own Foundation while SOS who are currently using them to commit war crimes on children, pushed for fracking in foreign nations against the protests of tens of thousands, benefited from the private prison-profit pipeline system, and on and on and on - it actually never seems to end.
The differences are actually quite stark and amazing to me reading so much of it here for the last few months.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)and no one can remember Bern doing anything add a couiple of amends to somebody else bill, and changing the name of a post office. that's really "worked all his life fighting to make better the lives of others"
btw 27 years , he averaged working on 4 bill a year.
in all in the Congressional Record, but guess u too biz spinning BS to look at it.
polly7
(20,582 posts)dozens of times. I give you:
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)not very much for 27 yr work in Congress,, short list,,, maybe why only a handful of his cohorts endorse him. Maybe why none of the major Civil Right leaders can remember him in the fight.
polly7
(20,582 posts)CentralMass
(15,265 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)in 27 years introduce any legislation to fight for major reforms...
ur article is spin,,,,,, go tot eh Congressional Record and look at what he really did for 27 yrs..... it not like he was to biz,,,, he only averaged working on 4 bill /yr and only one became law, name change a PO
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Lets see:
*she turned her back on the majority of elected Democrats, crossed over to the Republican side, and helped Bush get his WAR ON.
*she led the charge against those evil Flag Burners
*She was the Joan of Arc fighting against cartoon violence in video games.
Ironically, at the same time she was opposing cartoon violence, she was supporting the killing and maiming of REAL Human Beings in the worst ways imaginable in Iraq.
What else?
In her 8 years as a junior Senator I can tell u she averaged working on over 10 times more bill/ yr than Bern did. Congressional Record Facts
so i dont have to make up stuff to post it
Bern has Zero Presidential Attributes
he has show no Presidential Leadership
he must have cot down in basement of Congress he take naps on
bvar22
(39,909 posts)...that even the most limited can easily check. You should try it. You will find out I am 100% correct.
OTOH, you posted nothing that can be documented.
You DO know that documentation is important when making wild assed claims on the Internet?
Yes?
So show some specifics, along with your documentation.
NJCher
(35,704 posts)Painful to read.
Cher
LadyHawkAZ
(6,199 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)TPP will be the end of the American Experiment. This nation will become something else entirely and then it will completely fall apart.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)We sold everything, cashed in everything, paid the penalties for early withdrawals,
and bought pristine rural land with a clear Ozark spring for a water source.
We live there now, keep chickens and Honey bees, grow vegetables, fruit trees and berries.
We build everything ourselves, no permits or inspections required. If it falls down, it isOn Us...literally.
Thankfully, we possess the complimentary skills to make this fun ( most of the time).
If we need something, we buy 2nd hand or salvage and make it work...or do without.
We participate in a surprisingly active Black Market of goods, services, and favors among our neighbors.
Wall Street can live or die without our money or concern.
So far, so good.
--bvar22 & Starkraven
Living well on a low taxable income and stuff we learned in the 60s
Fairgo
(1,571 posts)Glad to hear you landed well. I have friends living close to the land in the Ozarks.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)We originally wanted the PNW, and even drove out there, but were priced out of that market.
We didn't want to take out a mortgage, but buy outright with cash. There was some inexpensive property in Oregon, but there were always problems with it, like no clean water.
We made a list of priorities:
1) Water, water, water... clean water. Most important. A marginal well won't cut it.
We can run our spring (there is a pump 60'down a cased hole) wide open, 24/7 without any problems, even when our neighbors wells dried up during the last drought.
We use it to irrigate our crops, wash our clothes, and bathe. The more we use it, the colder and clearer the water gets.
Without our spring, we couldn't live here.
If you are going to use a river, make sure there is no industry, agribusiness, farms, suburbs, urban areas, or other sources of potential pollution upstream.
2)No oil industry or refineries or other polluters in the proximity
3)Hilltop location (no downflow from any neighbors)
4)Since we would be living on our savings, inexpensive property taxes and staying out of debt of any kind was important.
5)Long growing season
6)Good, fertile soil
Aside from those suggestions, there are some rules of thumb we learned the hard way.
*It will cost twice as much as you think.
*It will take 3 times longer to get something done as you planned
*It will require 5 times as much labor and sweat than you can imagine.
*It will never be "finished" but always be a "work in progress". At the end of the day, take pride in what you have done and enjoy it Don't obsess about the stuff that wasn't done or was done wrong and will have to be taken apart tomorrow. I tend to do that, and start making lists for tomorrow, forgetting to enjoy the beautiful evening. Breathe, relax, and enjoy the freedom. Any problems will either solve themselves, or still be there tomorrow.
Unless you plan to go BIG, it will never pay for itself. You will need some savings, or find some source of income. It is possible to produce one or two meals a day during the Summer, but Winter gets fairly meager, even if you put up lots of produce and have a big freezer.
We can almost break even with our honey and eggs. Everybody grows their own veggies, so there isn't much of a market for those around here, and the Farmers market is too far away to make the trip worthwhile.
Becoming part of the community is very important.
Here is some good advice when moving into a rural area:
*Join the local rural fire department, and show up at all meetings and fire calls.
Don't discuss politics around them. Discuss Fire Fighting and do you part. You will gain respect and friends (especially after being in a fire with them) who will tell their friends that you are OK.
Women fire fighters are common here.
I was driving a tanker/pumper truck within 6 months after joining...(childhood dream come true). We were pleasantly surprised to find some liberal Democrats on our department...not really surprising. Liberals will go the extra mile to help others. If you have any medical skills, become a first responded for your area. If you don't have any of these skills, classes are free and not too difficult.
(In addition to being the Director of our local Fire Dept, my wife is also the only medical First Responder for about 60 sq. miles)
The above is a great way to network into the community. People don't forget those who show up to help at 3 AM.
*Never tell a local how to do something even when they are blatantly wrong. Bite your tongue. Instead, ask their advice.
*Always admire someone's garden (even if it is a bummer), and ask them how they grow such healthy plants. Everyone LOVES to talk about their gardens. The old timers are a fountain of knowledge, unfortunately, about 1/2 of it is bullshit, but don't call them on their Bullshit, and some of the things they can tell you are really valuable. Never, ever mention "organic" to a local grower of veggies unless they bring it up first, and NEVER tell them they are doing something wrong.
*Ask for help with some minor task, even if you don't need it. Most are glad to help. You will OWE them afterwards, but that can be the foundation for a good, neighborly relationship.
The downside is that I started at age 55, and have been working our ground for over 10 years. Some things are getting too hard for me to manage in addition to some medical problems associated with my age. I never figured I would get too old to work hard, something I always took pride in. This scares me, and we have had to cut back on some of the things we were doing, and the quantity of veggies we were growing.
Good Luck with your dreams.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)She was the best, and I still miss her.
"I believe that ignorance is the root of all evil. And that no one knows the truth."