"are there programs that can be used to secretly fix elections?"

[Huey P. Long]

Uploaded by UNCOUNTEDTHEMOVIE on Jul 7, 2008

http://www.UncountedTheMovie.com

"Mr. Curtis," said the questioner at the U.S. House Judiciary Committee proceedings, "are there programs that can be used to secretly fix elections?"

And so begins the story of Clint Curtis - computer programmer, Floridian, Republican - who was asked by the company he worked for to create a vote-rigging software prototype that he assumed would be used to try and "catch" would-be fraudsters. It was a standard "opposition research" assignment - or so he was told. The truth, of course, was something completely different and weaves into a tangled web the 2000 Presidential Election debacle, a now-sitting U.S. Congressman, and the number one threat to our national security - electronic voting.

[ladjf]

1. I and many others have been trying to get someone's attention about

the potential threat of computer voting fraud. So far, no one in power seems to give a damn. Very discouraging.

[Voice for Peace]

3. It doesn't seem like it would be a terribly difficult thing

to have a voting system that's safe.

[ladjf]

6. Your assertion is definitely correct. The problem is that the political

system doesn't have the integrity to do anything about it. It's the most productive scam in the history of elections.

[xtraxritical]

23. No system is "safe" if it is "programmed". Paper ballot is the only "safe" system.

[1monster]

2. K & R

[Huey P. Long]

4. HACKING DEMOCRACY (HBO documentary)-

Last edited Mon Jun 18, 2012, 12:08 PM - Edit history (1)

The DVD of Hacking Democracy was released on March 27th 2007, and is available from Docurama. The DVD includes a number of extras including footage from Georgia and California never seen before. The extras chronicle some of the struggles that didn't make it into the final version but should be of interest to anyone interested in democracy.
Play the trailer

-
HACKING DEMOCRACY NOMINATED FOR AN EMMY®
Hacking Democracy was nominated for an 2007 EMMY' Award in the category OUTSTANDING INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM - LONG FORM
The full list of nominations for The 28th Annual Emmy Awards for News & Documentary can be seen here, and the winners are here




The Documentary
The documentary, first broadcast on HBO throughout November & December 2006, exposes the dangers of voting machines used during America's mid term and presidential elections. Electronic voting machines count approximately 90% of America's votes in county, state and federal elections. The technology is also increasingly being used across the world, including in Canada, the United Kingdom, Europe and Latin America. Filmed over three years this expos' follows the investigations of a team of citizen activists and hackers as they take on the electronic voting industry, targeting the Diebold corporation.
"Hacking Democracy" uncovers incendiary evidence from the trash cans of Texas to the ballot boxes of Ohio, exposing secrecy, votes in the trash, hackable software and election officials rigging the presidential recount.

Ultimately proving our votes can be stolen without a trace "Hacking Democracy" culminates in the famous 'Hursti Hack'; a duel between the Diebold voting machines and a computer hacker from Finland - with America's democracy at stake.

"Hacking Democracy" was Executive Produced by Sarah Teale & Sian Edwards of Teale-Edwards Productions LLC


http://www.hackingdemocracy.com/

[ladjf]

7. Amazing. I'm very interested in the subject and I've not heard of

the pieces you have listed. Just shows that I was slack in my research or the pieces never got "legs". nt

[Huey P. Long]

14. Thank you! Clint CURTIS wrote Software to STEAL ELECTIONS

Clint CURTIS wrote Software to STEAL ELECTIONS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=0IEo__WDiGQ

Eugene CLINT CURTIS, . EXCLUSIVE I N T E R V I E W a one on One interview with William Wagener,
Mr. Curtis wrote the vote rigging software with a Communist Chinese company
that got major contracts with NASA thru Tom Feeney. Later Mr. Curtis testified in OHIO about writing the vote stealing [ flipping ] to Congressman, but the MEDIA did NOT let the public see it, so we only have a amateur video of it.

[madashelltoo]

5. This is why the Repigs are not concerned.

They KNOW the machines are going to give them the desired result. The recount in Wisconsin is because it was NOT supposed to turn out that way. They paid good money to have ALL of them to win and are totally puzzled by that one loss. Finding the bag of ballots was merely a ruse to recount.

[ahlnord]

8. privatized elections

The only safe method of vote counting is "hands on" -- paper ballots, hand-counted. And that is why Germany insists on it. Vote counting must be a citizen responsibility, not a privately run, corporate, profit-making business. Not many people realize that THAT is what we have allowed to happen. We have to take back our elections into the public domain. It is OUR duty to count the ballots -- publicly, transparently, openly -- posting the results publicly at each little precinct polling place before the vote total is passed on to the state. I am a former election judge who counted ballots. It worked. My heart sank when they introduced the tabulating machines. Now our paper ballots are fed into the machine and at the end of the day the machine spits out the results on a tape. As a judge I can't really verify that it is accurate as I could when we hand-counted and cross-checked publicly with judges from both parties. It is possible for the machine tally to be perfectly fine; it is also possible for the software to have been rigged to alter the tally. The only way to "be sure" is to re-count the ballots by hand. So why not just count them by hand in the first place and relieve us of all the doubt and suspicion?! I believe that the advent of computer voting and vote counting has deprived us of confidence in our elections at the very least, and at the worst imposed upon us rigged results. Both are the beginning of the end of democracy.

[rurallib]

9. wish I could rec this post

Welcome to DU.

[hue]

12. "wish I could rec this post" good wish!!

[hue]

11. I K&R this post!! (well I'll try anyway!)

[emmadoggy]

13. Excellent post. nt

[AllyCat]

16. Welcome to DU! Could you post this separately?

This is a great post and I completely agree with you!

[hue]

10. K&R!!

[AllyCat]

15. Most progressives I talk to don't believe vote rigging occurs.

When I explain the machines, they say it happens other places, but not in WI because we have those opti-scan machines. But those are also hackable. So even though we have a paper trail, who is going to check when the challenger to Walker concedes the election less than an hour after polls close?

And if vote rigging is happening ANYWHERE in the U.S., it is an affront to voters EVERYWHERE!

[jeff47]

18. That's because in most places the optical machines are audited

They count a sample of paper ballots and compare it to the machine results. Any discrepancy causes more paper ballots to be checked against electronic totals.

Apparently, they don't automatically do that in WI. But most liberals aren't going to have a problem with optical machines, because most liberals are living in places where the results are verified.

[robinlynne]

20. You couldn't be more wrong. Most people may THINK the results are verified.

[jeff47]

21. Then back up your assertion with some actual data.

I know the systems I've been voting on since 2000 have paper trails that are audited. Because I checked what the law requires.

[Jackpine Radical]

24. Now check whether the law is actually followed.

There is a law against paperless machines in WI too, but that didn't stop their use after they had been "donated" 2-for-1 to a bunch of counties in exchange for their "outmoded" opti-scan machines.

[jeff47]

25. They were.

I'm well aware of the Democratic representatives who were present in the counting during several of the elections in the several states I've lived in since then.

However, your example still doesn't quite back-up the assertion that they are manipulated everywhere despite auditing, since your example is in a state without auditing.

[robinlynne]

27. exactly.

[robinlynne]

28. Did you watch the Clint Curtis video? If so, then google Bradblog and read.

you can actually read about Wisconsin if you so choose.
That's for starters.

[jeff47]

29. Wisconsin does not audit

So reading about them is meaningless for elections held outside Wisconsin.

Brad's main complaint is machines without a paper trail. So it doesn't apply either. In fact creating a paper audit trail is the primary way he proposes to deal with the problem.

So, where's your actual information about auditing not being performed as required by law?

[robinlynne]

30. you need to read a lot more. then we can talk. your assumptions are incorrect.

First of all "Brad's main complaint is machines without a paper trial."
WAY OFF.
Brad's main complaint is that without public verification you do not have democracy!
machines without a paper trial are one way out of literally hundreds, perhaps thousands, that democracy is taken away from us in this country.


Op scan machines have been proven faulty over and over. They are more than simple to hack, as per every computer specialist who has looked into them. Auditing is not enough. Obviously. You od not need to be fraudulent in every precinct for election fraud ot happen.

you are talking without doing any reading about the subject first. Did you watch the video in this OP? It alone should answer your question.

Then look at why the california sec of state had to de-certify optical scan machines....
OP SCAN machines are no different that DRES. The only difference is that a ballot exists. but there are thousands of ways to break the chain of custody, all of which happen in this country repeatedly.
in addition the ballots are read by computers, using only header cards to tell the computer what a vote in box 3 means. The spaces (space one, two or three for example) are rotated so every candidate has an equal chance to be in position one. therefore position one could be gore or bush, depending on what the header card tells you.
In addition, how many times have we found "backrooms" full of ballots. All over the country.
just this week, the Republicans "found" an extra bag of ballots outside in th street, which they are using as a reason to recount the wisconsin election, for the one seat the Democrats won....

You need to read up. then let's talk.

[jeff47]

31. Why would I want to talk with you?

You're utterly ignoring what I'm saying in an attempt to play "I'm smarter than you are".

Brad's main complaint is that without public verification you do not have democracy!

Which you accomplish with.......an audited paper trail!! Ta-da!

Op scan machines have been proven faulty over and over.

They run software, so they're possible to hack. Which is why you.....audit the paper trail!! Ta-da!!

you are talking without doing any reading about the subject first.

Actually, no. I'm completely aware of what is possible with computer systems. Which is why I am supporting a non-electronic paper trail that can ensure the optical scanner recorded votes correctly. Because that can't be altered via software.

Then look at why the california sec of state had to de-certify optical scan machines....

You mean here where she decertified DRE machines and turned to optical scanners?

OP SCAN machines are no different that DRES.

Only if you throw away the paper ballots. If you use them to audit the software, then it's completely different from DRE because you can actually audit the software.

but there are thousands of ways to break the chain of custody, all of which happen in this country repeatedly.

Which is why ballots should be transported by multiple people with optional observers from any party on the ballot. Which happens in many states.

Btw, how exactly do you plan to solve this problem with hand-counted paper ballots? They'd still be transported from the polling place to a location where they are counted.

in addition the ballots are read by computers, using only header cards to tell the computer what a vote in box 3 means. The spaces (space one, two or three for example) are rotated so every candidate has an equal chance to be in position one. therefore position one could be gore or bush, depending on what the header card tells you.

Considering they don't use boxes on the ballots, I'm gonna have to say no.

The systems I'm talking about that are in use in CA, CO and NC have a paper ballot with each candidate printed on the ballot, and the voter connects an arrow indicating their preference. Meaning the ballot is 100% human readable as-is. There are no headers used for the voter or the audit.

In fact, there is no need to count the ballot via machine, except for speed, convenience and an actual reduction in fraud - groups of people counting paper ballots don't have to count accurately, you know. But with the machine you have to hack the machine AND get the people doing the audit come up with exactly the same numbers while being watched by witnesses from both parties.

just this week, the Republicans "found" an extra bag of ballots outside in th street, which they are using as a reason to recount the wisconsin election, for the one seat the Democrats won....

Uh-huh. Considering not even Bradblog is covering that claim, and Google does not reveal any other source making that claim, I'm not gonna trust you on that without a link.

[robinlynne]

34. one link to article about the recount happening in Wisconsin which you can't find a source for:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014144570

there are ten or so links on DU alone.


our ballots here DO have boxes and do NOT have candidate's names on the ballots: Los Angeles County, the most populous county in the country. possibly in the world.

Ballots "should be transported by multiple people", shoulda coulda woulda.
We note constant infractions all over the country when we monitor.


Was anyone able to look at the Ohio ballots from the 2004 election to audit?
There were quite a few lawsuits, and yet the ballots were destroyed.
Can the public audit the Wisconsin election right now? try.


We very much wanted to check the vote by mail envelopes in our County. it takes a federal judge to get permission, and a lot of money to pay an attorney to bring the case to Court.
in other words it is NOT happening. nice idea. NOT within the reality of our elections.
if it worked, Bush would not have taken office.

[jeff47]

35. Your link does not say what you claim

Your claim: 500 votes were found!

Your link says nothing about found votes. At least, the link to an actual news source. However, a poster made a sarcastic comment that an election supervisor in another district found votes for him. Apparently, that's what you consider proof.

Ballots "should be transported by multiple people", shoulda coulda woulda.
We note constant infractions all over the country when we monitor.

And your evidence is more posts on DU? Poster asdl;fkjad says ballots were lost!!!!! So clearly there's massive fraud!!!

our ballots here DO have boxes and do NOT have candidate's names on the ballots: Los Angeles County

Inkavote doesn't use the "headers" you claim are present in all optical systems. Nor is there a ballot location rotation option. Yet we're supposed to believe you're an expert in electronic voting systems?

the most populous county in the country. possibly in the world.

Math isn't your strong suit, is it?

Was anyone able to look at the Ohio ballots from the 2004 election to audit?

You're the one claiming to be an expert in voting fraud. Why don't you look for posts on DU from random people claiming election officials from Indiana destroyed them.

Can the public audit the Wisconsin election right now? try.

So you're going to pretend I did not mention this was a problem?

it takes a federal judge to get permission

No, it doesn't. Because elections are state-run. A federal judge can rule on it if there's a violation of federal law, but a state judge can also rule on it.

if it worked, Bush would not have taken office.

Oh please. Bush took office because of a corrupt supreme court decision. If Florida's election laws were actually followed, Bush would have lost. So you can't attack Florida's election laws as the problem.

[LibDemAlways]

17. Even if the repuke criminal syndicate came clean and

admitted all the vote fraud they have committed and continue to commit, the media would just write stories commending them on getting away with it and the public would shrug it off and go back to Dancing With the Stars. This country is fucked up beyond repair.

[jeff47]

19. Electronic voting isn't a problem.

Un-audited electronic voting is a problem.

Go ahead and use systems such as optical scanners to count the votes. But those results should be checked every single election via hand-counting a random sample of precincts, with any discrepancy causing more precincts to be hand-counted.

[KansDem]

22. I've never understood why our votes are being counted...

...by private corporations using super-secret proprietary codes!

[Larry Ogg]

26. Election theft is the last resort towards preserving our form of pretend democracy.

Last edited Mon Jun 18, 2012, 03:30 PM - Edit history (2)

Keep in mind that prior to the elections, in order to help us decide on who or what to vote for.

The voters are bombarded with all sorts of lies, distortions of facts, fantasies, propaganda, and all out bullshit that, by design, ensures that "we the majority" remain...

1) Fervently divided over the least important issues...

2) We vote for the corporately owned politicians who will champion our view of the least important issues the best.

And...

3) We will outright reject anyone who campaigns on issues that are more important than the least important issues.

America has lowered the bar of acceptable political lying, cheating, and fraud, that government has become the preferred career of crooks and lairs.

Problem is that there are just to many crooks and liars, and not enough elective positions to go around.

I have heard it said, that elections were to important to leave it up to the voters, so if election theft is made easy enough, why not go ahead and use it as a last resort.

And may the best crook win.

[shcrane71]

32. kicked

[stanleyyelnatsdotCOM]

33. Give to the poor....................

Sheldon Adelson gave 10 million to RMoney. Sheldon has so much $$ that giving 10 million to RMoney is like you and me giving $10 to President Obama. Good folk like Sheldon Adelson would rather give 100 million dollars to RMoney than take that same 100 million dollars and give to the poor.

I'm reminded of a verse from the Bible. Jesus told Sheldon that he should give to the poor.

Sheldon thought for a moment. Looked Jesus in the eyes and said, "Fuck You!"

"I'm out of here if you want me to give my money to the poor."

And Sheldon went away grieved for he owned much stuff.