To me, and millions of others, it sure as hell is. Part of the basic 'rights' that we should have is the right to be able to feel safe walking down the street, to know that people the state has declared dangerous don't have easy access to deadly weapons. Bernie's 'rural state' garbage is no excuse for voting against background checks as often as he did. That's a cop-out, and one that could be argued to put blood on his hands.

Bernie doesn't have problems with bombs or drones either. Just look at how often he voted for interventions, expanded military spending, and the like. The one Iraq vote does not in any way inoculate him from the rest of his record, which not at all the pacifist he's being portrayed as.

Hillary is also to his left on the issues of social justice. Maybe not so much in policy, but in rhetoric, which is just as important. Bernie pretends they don't exist, or they can be solved through economics. Part of being a progressive is to see and call out problems like racism, sexism, homophobia, and pay discrimination. It's important to have a leader far enough 'to the left' to call them vital problems to solve, and not brush them off the way Bernie did in that debate, so we could get back to 'the important issues'.

zalinda

(5,621 posts)

10. Guns are the only thing she is to the left of Bernie

Reply to CrowCityDem (Reply #9)

Mon May 23, 2016, 11:45 AM

May 2016

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm All the candidates stands on gun control. Bernie gets a D- from the NRA.

Bernie only voted for was in Afghanistan. The rest of the votes on "expanded military spending" was to protect the troops, you know the people actually fighting, with armor and such.

Policy is more important than rhetoric, as we have learned, politicians lie. If Bernie doesn't talk about every single social problem and each section that has problems, it's because he says so many other things that is important in EVERYONE'S lives, not just one segment of society. He is inclusive, or haven't you noticed.

And, if it hadn't occurred to you, having well paying jobs will help all of society, especially women and minorities. Just think how much easier it would be for a woman to leave an abusive relationship if she could actually have a job that could support herself and her children.

Z

BTW, fixing societal issues does not fix economic ones. Fixing economic issues CAN help societal issues.

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)

13. Yes, economic and social issues are distinct. Bernie rarely talks about social ones though.

Reply to zalinda (Reply #10)

Mon May 23, 2016, 01:43 PM

May 2016

And I consider that a big problem. Having well-paying jobs doesn't solve people who have hate in their heart, and want to use the power of the government to discriminate. Having a good job didn't stop Louis Gates from being arrested trying to get into his own house. Having a good job won't stop North Carolina from barring a transgendered person from using a bathroom.

There are serious societal issues that will be here whatever the economy is doing. Bernie does a disservice to the entire idea of social justice to ignore that in favor of blaming everything on the economy. It's not a very 'left' or 'progressive' way to look at the world. In fact, boiling everything down to money is the same kind of myopic thinking that Wall Street uses.

zalinda

(5,621 posts)

14. Except that economic issues can and do change social issues

Reply to CrowCityDem (Reply #13)

Mon May 23, 2016, 03:06 PM

May 2016

People who fear losing their jobs are quite prone to blame others for the economic situation. I don't know how many times I've heard that such and such immigrant can walk into a bank and a get a loan when Americans can't. Or how immigrants are taking away the jobs. Or how black or brown people are all in gangs and steal from us.

It is fear, plain and simple. There is a reason that the Republicans gin up fear, it's so that people can't see that they are being stolen from by the corporations, not their fellow man. It has always been fear. Whether fear of being homosexual, caught in a crime, not being manly enough, not being smart enough, etc.

Bernie does talk about social issues, but I don't see Hillary talking about economic issues. Oh wait, she does, but she takes big money from the very people who are causing the problem. She wants more H1B visa, which will cause more societal problems.

There are very real problems that have to be dealt with NOW. The environment is one of them. The fact that the very corporations that are supporting Hillary are some of the biggest polluters, is ignored by her supporters. The fact that homelessness is becoming more numerous every day, is ignored by her supporters. These need to be dealt with NOW. Bernie already has talked about the cop situation and equal pay. He has already talked about LGBT, he has been talking about these things for decades, long before Hillary even polled them to find out what she should think about them.

He was arrested for protesting school segregation in Chicago back in 1963. When he says he is going to do something, he puts his heart, soul and body on the line to try to get it done. I can't say the same for Hillary, and she was my Senator.

Z

TwilightZone

(25,471 posts)

8. Assuming that Trump means anything he says is misguided, at best.

Reply to rsacamano (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 10:35 AM

May 2016

It's difficult to place him anywhere on the political scale on most issues with any kind of confidence because he's a pathological liar. Outside of his areas of expertise - harassing women and minorities and bankrupting businesses - he's also clueless.

blm

(113,065 posts)

11. Do you take Trump at his word? GOP establishment already has him 'adjusting' his positions, just

Reply to rsacamano (Original post)

Mon May 23, 2016, 12:11 PM

May 2016

as he changed his position on gun control laws to suit the NRA and GOP's acceptable position.

So, I'm interested in knowing why and how you have found any of Trump's positions to the left are now believed to be accurate and trustworthy.

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