The American Revolution Was The Original Brexit!

[thomhartmann]

[baldguy]

1. So, in this analogy Nigel Farage is ... who? Thomas Jefferson?

Sorry, not even close.

Is this from The Onion?

[saidsimplesimon]

2. thom, yes indeed, but the

historical past must include a vision for the future. Not more of the same power struggles from a political elite. This vote was taken without a clue of how to move forward. That reminds me of the failures of the violent French Revolution. How many years did peasants suffer waiting for the promised dream of liberte and egalite?

England has joined Greece in passing a measure for which no one has offered any alternatives. Just my opinion.

[Nitram]

3. Not really.

If it was, then half of the colonies would have to peel off and declare independence from the US as Scotland and Northern Ireland will do. And half the newly independent populace would have to regret that they had gained independence. and we'd have closes our doors to immigrants from Europe.

[BainsBane]

4. Continuing to push nativism and racism as though it should be admired

Is incredibly offensive. The fact that national front parties like Le Pen support Brexit and plan similar efforts to leave the EU should be a major red flag.

Now we see why there was so little concern in certain quarters about supporting a long record of nativism, opposition to immigration reform and support for the Minutemen and the Wall.

[cosmicone]

15. ^^^ THIS ^^^^ n/t

[MaggieD]

18. Exactly

These values / ideology are nothing I would have ever associated with liberalism or progressive ideals. Makes me shake my head.

[brer cat]

23. I agree, BB.

Well said!

[MohRokTah]

5. Even the notion of pushing such a false narrative CRACKS ME UP!!!!

[MohRokTah]

7. .

[Surya Gayatri]

9. You DO have a way with words, zappa! LOL!

[Surya Gayatri]

8. Ridiculous false equivalency. Lucky for us, the colonials had much more foresight than the

feckless Brexit Band.

Not all "revolutions" are desirable, or positive for those doing the revolting.

[Sheepshank]

21. So many latching on to the Brexit adoration, creates the false equivalency....

.....that all revolutions are productive and desirable. The OP certainly continues to promote that false equivalency.

[brer cat]

22. +1000

[ismnotwasm]

10. UGH

[Cary]

11. Wow.

You're over the top on this one.

[greatauntoftriplets]

12. A gross oversimplification and just wrong.

This applies:

?cb=1294894494

[Loki]

13. Your posts are nothing but

hit and runs. No discussion, no input, no exchanges. Nothing.

[GusBob]

20. Long time listener. I actually enjoy his show

Very informative. He has great callers.

But when it comes to debating or discussion, well....let's just say Thom only does well with echoes. He sucks at debating.

The set-ups he has with RW guests are a drag cuz they own him every time which is hard on the ears. For a man of such intelligence to get lost with mental midgets is embarrassing

To borrow a phrase he likes to use, it's Kabuki theater when he debates right wingers.

His producers need to work on that, really

[NastyRiffraff]

14. You're kidding, right?

Good lord. This has to cover almost every major logical fallacy.

[MaggieD]

19. Indeed

[cosmicone]

16. Unrec n/t

[GusBob]

17. Holy stupidity

Stick with your day job

Oh, wait

[Hortensis]

24. I'm a little surprised. Is black-and-white/for OR against Brexit

some kind of litmus test here on DU? I don't listen to Thom Hartmann and don't have a context to put this post in.

"For" seems to brand someone a xenophobic nationalist and/or idiot progressive radio host. Correct?

But if I join the "againsts" how should I describe myself? Pro-establishment? Freedom fighter? Authoritarian anti-nationalist? (is there such a thing??) for supporting the authoritarian-trending EU government? Frankly, I haven't been reading about it and am too ignorant to come up with the appropriate political orientation.

[markpkessinger]

33. You make a very important point . . .

There is complexity and nuance surrounding the Brexit movement. Yes, it is feeding off of toxic nationalism and bigotry. But at the same time, the EU has flattened the labor market across Europe, which has been a boon to people in the poorer countries of Eastern Europe, but for workers in England, it has meant depressed wages and a lower standard of living -- challenges the leaders of the EU have failed to address in any meaningful way. Speaking as an American who learned just a couple of weeks ago that his job is beign outsourced to the Philippines as of September (meaning I find myself in the job market at age 55), I can fully relate to Brexit voters' economic anxiety and frustration.

In so far as the anger of por-leave ovters is directed at migrants and is being channeled in support of a toxic hyper-nationalism, it is terribly misdirected. But we shouldn't confuse the fact that the anger has been misdirected with the fact that the anger arose, in the first place, as a result of people's very real and legitimate concerns having gone unaddressed by a political elite.

[Cary]

25. The American Revolution was about taxation without representation

It was about things like American seamen being impressed into service on the British Navy, and expropriation of people's homes for British soldiers, and the Great Atlantic and Pacific Tea Company bankrupting local businesses. It was about a wealthy class being far wealthier than their British peers but having no political power.

Are you saying Brexit was all of these things? If so that's a big leap.

[Ghost Dog]

26. Yep. The 13 British colonies'

rebellion.

[Cary]

27. Meaning what?

Keep in mind that Britain is represented in the EU. No British seamen are being impressed. If you wish to leave the EU no one will take up arms to prevent you. Had the leaders of the American Revolution failed they would have been prosecuted for treason, summarily tried and drawn and quartered in a public execution.

[Ghost Dog]

28. Yes indeed. Apples & oranges.

It's sometimes relevant to remember, though, that other European 'powers', and Russia, were also present in North America at the time.

As well as First Nations, of course.

[Cary]

30. Yes

The world was different. Life was different.

Native Americans would have a totally different perspective.

[markpkessinger]

31. So you haven't actually watched the video . .

. . . and that's a shame. Look, I don't know who created the YouTube heading for this segment, but Hartmann's comment about the American Revolution is NOT an analogy, nor does he present it as such. He's talking about the Boston Tea Party (in the context of the current 4th of July weekend), and refers to the Revolution as "the original Brexit" almost as a throwaway. Certainly, it isn't the central thesis, nor even a siginificant secondary thesis, of the clip. Hartmann's take on what the Boston Tea Party was really about is based on the ONLY published eyewitness account of that event, written by one of its participants and published in 1834. Our history books present it, often rather simplistically, as being an anti-tax revolt, or slightly less simplistically as being about "taxation without representation." But, as Hartmann points out, what the colonists were really furious about was Parliament's favorable treatment of the Dutch East India Company (in which many members of parliament were stockholders). During a difficult recession, parliament sought to bolster the profits of the Dutch East India Company by handing it an unfavorable tax break that allowed it to unfairly undercut colonists' businesses. So what the Boston Tea Party was, as much as anything, was a revolt against government collusion with and on behalf of corporate greed.

[L. Coyote]

34. It was about stealing Ohio from the Natives. The King did not allow invading the Indian Nations.

It was about the freedom to kill and commit genocide to get rich. The Ohio Company formed well beforehand, Washington was even involved. Of course, they had to have altruistic public relations and couldn't just say, "Let's go steal us a continent and wipe out the Natives, it's Manifest destiny."

[merrily]

29. Doesn't hold up beyond being cute, but it is cute.

[markpkessinger]

32. Folks, ignore the title, and watch the video itself . . .

I don't know why Hartmann chose to give the clip this title, but when you actually watch the video, you will find he makes only one, brief reference to the American Revolution as "the original Brexit," And he doesn't actually suggest that the American Revolution and Brexit are analogous. But he is discussing the Boston Tea Party, mostly in the context of this being the 4th of July weekend. His discussion centers around the only published eyewitness account of the Boston Tea Party, written by one of its participants and published in 1834. Hartmann's comment about the American Revolution is NOT an analogy, nor does he present it as such. He's talking about the Boston Tea Party (in the context of the current 4th of July weekend), and refers to the Revolution as "the original Brexit" almost as a throwaway. Certainly, it isn't the central thesis, nor even a siginificant secondary thesis, of the clip. Hartmann's take on what the Boston Tea Party was really about is based on the ONLY published eyewitness account of that event, written by one of its participants and published in 1834. Our history books present it, often rather simplistically, as being an anti-tax revolt, or slightly less simplistically as being about "taxation without representation." But, as Hartmann points out, what the colonists were really furious about was Parliament's favorable treatment of the Dutch East India Company (in which many members of parliament were stockholders). During a difficult recession, parliament sought to bolster the profits of the Dutch East India Company by handing it an unfavorable tax break that allowed it to unfairly undercut colonists' businesses. So what the Boston Tea Party was, as much as anything, was a revolt against government collusion with and on behalf of corporate greed. And that is an important bit of nuance about the Boston Tea Party that we should all be eager to hear, as it directly counters the simplistic historical narrative hyped by the right.