My response to a listener to my show who said the 3/5-clause gave blacks like me humanity.

[egbertowillies]

A listener to my show failed to see the gross insult in his statements as we discussed the 3/5-clause in the constitution. He said the clause gave people like me partial humanity. Please listen to my entire response in the spirit that I said it.

https://egbertowillies.com/2020/04/22/listerner-three-fifth-clause-gave-blacks-humanity/

[sandensea]

1. I've rarely met a Republican who didn't feel that way, frankly.

And as you know, it's only gotten worse since the Gingrich/Limbaugh era.

It never registers with them that when the Cheneys and Big Oil types send them (or their young relatives) off to wars, they're nothing but rednecks - no better than any person of color.

Not 'human' at all - just cannon fodder.

I'm sorry you have to deal with cretins like that, Egberto - but you handled it great, that's for sure.

[unblock]

2. Nice rant! I think the 3/5th clause was even more sinister

And rather misunderstood. It was the south that pushed for treating slaves as "one" and the north that pushed for treating slaves as "zero" in the context of this clause of the constitution.

That's because it was used in determining how to apportion seats in the House of Representatives. The more slaves count for, the more representation the slave-owning states would have in Congress. That, in turn, would make it harder for congress to get in the way of slavery.

Counting slaves as 3/5th, or anything greater than zero, didn't give slaves anything because slaves couldn't even vote! It didn't give them dignity or humanity or representation or anything else. It *appropriated* something from slaves and conferred it to the slave owners, amplifying their power in Congress in order to further entrench and expand slavery.

[customerserviceguy]

3. That's what Angela Davis taught me about it.

Yes, that Angela Davis. Had enslaved people counted as zero (as their votes were non-existent) the slaveholding states would have less power in the House of Representatives and the Electoral College. I recall her pointing out that except for the Adamses, the first seven Presidents came from slaveholding states.

[brush]

4. Great info on the 3/5s compromise. How did this diabolical bit of legislation...

Last edited Thu Apr 23, 2020, 03:49 AM - Edit history (1)

somehow it's way into the Electoral College where small, not even southern states like Wyoming have more EC leverage than huge states like NY, ILL, Cal?

[unblock]

6. The 3/5th clause was repealed by the 14th amendment, section 2

The formula for electoral college votes, giving votes based on total representation in Congress, gives more power to small states because each state gets two electoral votes regardless of population.

This wasn't really seen as having anything to do with the slavery debate, because there were also small northern states that benefited at the expense of large southern states. So it wasn't really thought of as something that needed to be changed at the end of the civil war.

Remember that the constitution -- indeed, the formation of the United States itself -- was fundamentally an agreement among the *states* not an agreement among the people. "We the people" was really just a brilliant marketing phrase. The constitution was ratified by the *states*.

So of course, to get the smaller states to go along with it, they needed something more than equal representation based solely on population.

And amendments require 3/4th of the states, meaning a good chunk of the smaller states need to agree to give up that extra influence. That's a hard sell.

[brush]

7. Thanks again for explaining this so well. You must be a historian.

[egbertowillies]

5. Exactly