"Russia & China, Together at Last": Historian Al McCoy Predicts Ukraine War to Birth New World Order

[Uncle Joe]

[Kid Berwyn]

1. Thank you! Uncle Joe!

Alfred McCoy is TOPS! Spot on about who the real friends and fiends are.

[BeyondGeography]

2. That reminds me, who killed more of his own people, Stalin or Mao?

I imagine that and the two nations’ continued embrace of totalitarianism isn’t addressed here.

[Uncle Joe]

4. I believe that would be Mao with his "Great Leap Forward"

This video is primarily a strategic global, geo-political analysis of growing China/Russia relations going into the 21st century and its' effects on U.S. dominance.

Their tactics and strategy.

[BeyondGeography]

7. The estimates on Stalin range from 40 to 60 million

Quoting David Remnick from Lenin’s Tomb.

Neither of these countries has made a meaningful effort to come to terms with their past which is why they remain stuck there. Not unlike the followers of a certain party in this country.

[Uncle Joe]

8. I found this WAPO article on the issue

(snip)

Who was the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world? Most people probably assume that the answer is Adolf Hitler, architect of the Holocaust. Others might guess Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, who may indeed have managed to kill even more innocent people than Hitler did, many of them as part of a terror famine that likely took more lives than the Holocaust. But both Hitler and Stalin were outdone by Mao Zedong. From 1958 to 1962, his Great Leap Forward policy led to the deaths of up to 45 million people – easily making it the biggest episode of mass murder ever recorded.

(snip)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/giving-historys-greatest-mass-murderer-his-due/

[Chainfire]

3. That sounds terrible until you think about it.

Russia may need China, but China doesn't need Russia. How long can that last? One day, China's billions of people are going to go looking for some lebensraum, and there is big old empty Russia.

[Uncle Joe]

5. China needs Russia's energy for now.

It's like they say in real estate, "location, location, location."

[Chainfire]

6. It may become an issue of why pay for it?

China and Russia is the same kind of marriage of convenience as was Russia and Germany at the time of the German invasion of Poland.

If we had not joined ourselves at the hip with the Chinese economy we could protest a bit louder, but Dog forbid, we stop those containers from rolling in.

[TeamProg]

10. American "patriots" SOLD OUT other Americans by choosing to buy the CHEAPEST imports from

China vs. USA made goods.

WalMart has a LOT to do with this -and the fact that the U.S. has major problems trying/wanting to pay our workers a decent wage w/ insurance and retirement benefits so our workers CAN AFFORD to buy OTHER USA MADE GOODS instead feeling forced to buy the cheapest from Asia.

'Oh, I can't pay $15 more for an iPhone made in the U.S.! I can save 15 bucks if Apple keeps making it in China.' (yeah, well,. not for long)

[orwell]

9. I never listen to Amy Goodman any more...

...but I wanted to hear what McCoy said.

Here is the bottom line that many gloss over in their contempt for US power, including my former self.

The real battle isn't between "the West" and "Eurasia". It is between democracy and authoritarianism.

I don't really care what another country does, or how it decides to politically structure itself, until it attacks a country in a war of aggression. That is what China has aligned itself with - war crimes committed by war criminals. Is this the image that the "new China" wishes to establish? Is the mask of Xi finally slipping off?

What is the benefit of replacing one hegemon for another? And if the world must have a hegemon, would you rather have it be one based on at least a semblance of democracy, press freedom, human rights, and international law?

The US has not distinguished itself in illegal and immoral wars. There is also a reason that democracies align themselves with the west and autocracies align themselves with Russia and China. If the US falls to the authoritarians, as represented by the current CON party, Amy will eventually be sent to a re-education camp. She will be "Uyghured".

China will eventually subsume Russia and treat it as the mafia run gas station that it is. It is also not rocket science to predict that China will surpass the US in GDP by 2030. Anyone who reads a chart can do that. But much of the world is now seeing China for what it has become under the increasingly imperialistic Xi. Do we really want to embrace China as the new global hegemon? Ask the other countries that rim the South China sea if they want the US to sail away. Three trillion dollars in trade subject to Chinese warships acting like the are controlling the straights of Hormuz. Ask Australia or India what they think about this.

Do we need a hegemon at all?
Isn't all of this moot in the face of global climate collapse?

It seems everyone is asking the wrong questions. That is what we do when we won't like the answers...

[TeamProg]

11. +1 Nice summation.

[BeyondGeography]

12. Spot on

15 years for calling this a war. That’s all one should need to know about what’s at stake here. And we’re never going to be able to focus on anything meaningful, let alone climate change, if we aren’t free to speak the truth.

[Uncle Joe]

13. I couldn't agree more orwell, China would absolutely censor Amy Goodman precisely

because of the argument you make.

"The real battle isn't between "the West" and "Eurasia". It is between democracy and authoritarianism."

They're afraid of democracy breaking out and journalists such as Amy represent the greatest threat to their authoritarian form of government.

As to whether the Earth needs hegemony?

That's been the long term historical trend of human societies, ever larger growing empires controlling greater portions of the planet.

I would hope we evolve past that trend but while past performance is not indicative of future results... etc. etc.

[orwell]

14. As you said...

"As to whether the Earth needs hegemony?

That's been the long term historical trend of human societies, ever larger growing empires controlling greater portions of the planet."

I think all of this is becoming moot due to the exigencies of climate collapse. The "age of empires" is coming to an end.

I went to a nearby lake yesterday, one of the oldest in the world by the way, and looked at a water volume that you would normally see at the end of summer. This is after 2 years of drought that has been unrelenting. My county has had almost 40% of it's vegetation burned by massive apocalyptic fires in the last 7 years. I have evacuated my home more times than I can count expecting it to be gone when I return.

I have been warning everyone I know about climate collapse for 40 years to mostly deaf ears. Now it is here and it will be relentless.

All the solar panels, and Teslas, and recycling in the world will not support the continuation of a lifestyle that is unsustainable. There is more energy in the global weather system than all the bombs from all the wars combined. And we have no way to control it, contrary to the "god complex" morons that control the "debate."

And mother earth has just begun to fight. She is the real "hegemon" here.

Once again, we don't ask these questions, because we won't like the answers...