Trump federally indicted! Here's what we can expect in the coming days - Glenn Kirschner

[Rhiannon12866]

Today is a good day for the rule of law and for American democracy. For the first time in our nation's history, a criminal former president has been federal indicted for some of the crimes he committed in violation of the laws of the United States.

Today is also a good day for the millions of American who respect the rule of law and expect high government officials to be held accountable when they violate our laws. It's also a good day for our friends around the world who have been pulling for our democracy, hoping that we could repair and rebuild a government that Donald Tump and his criminal associates tried, by their own admission, to deconstruct.

Today is a good day for justice. And justice matters. - Glenn Kirschner - 06/08/2023.

[keithbvadu2]

1. Witch hunt! Radical left! I did nothing wrong. Send me money to fight them .

[MagaSmash]

2. What kind of a filthy party would nominate a Felon and a Rapist for the Presidency?

[wnylib]

8. Oh! I know, I know. A party full of felons and sexual predators.

Gee, that was easy.

[ancianita]

3. Good to know the feds will definitely get the mug shot on Tuesday, unlike Manhattan.

Re pre-trial detainment, "other conditions" are the viable argument for it, since he's "proven that he is time and again." I hope, pre-trial, he's conditionally prohibited much more than he was in Manhattan.

Re the election, the law says he'll have to go to trial within 70 days of arraignment, but "due process" and defense delays, so the "speedy trial" law is out the window.

Trial date within a year is fine with me.

Thank you.

[Rhiannon12866]

4. I certainly agree with you, we know exactly what he will do, what he's already done, call this

A "witch hunt" and insist that (a he had every right to those documents and (b that all of the Democratic presidents did the same thing. I'm also hoping that there is some sort of "gag order" imposed by the judge in this case since whipping his supporters into a frenzy with more of his lies is the last thing we need.

[ancianita]

5. What the pre-trial judge needs to consider, imo, is that his team or him not know

who all are in the jury pool, or publicly put the system on trial like he tried with Manhattan. And what he's done in public about his legal cases has been working.

It's particularly impactful if he were to use/rally Florida to try the Southern District and the Smith team with "witch hunt" and "prosecutorial misconduct" claims. He'll have that 'speedy trial' time to publicly act up, and I hope the District Judge, with the help of Trump's probation officers, strictly monitors him.

[Rhiannon12866]

6. Oh, I agree that this is probably even more essential given these more serious charges

I was in my dentist's waiting room when the news broke about the indictments in Manhattan - and both my dentist and I were hoping for some sort of "gag order." The judge needs to impose something that TFG can't choose to ignore as well as also ensuring the anonymity of the jury.

[ancianita]

7. Yes. I don't think he can get away with his crap at the federal level.

He'll have to watch his mouth because he's being monitored. Even if it's Florida, when Jack Smith has a problem with Trump pre-trial, the federal court is going to listen without delay. This isn't a slack leash like he had from Manhattan.

[Rhiannon12866]

9. I agree and that's somewhat reassuring.

This is deadly serious and we know that Jack Smith doesn't put up with interference!

[wnylib]

10. But how would they enforce a gag order?

It's a given that he will defy any attempt to prevent him from riling up his followers, verbally attacking the prosecutors, witnesses, and jury.

What would the consequences be when (not if) he violates a gag order? A couple warnings at first. But when he ignores the warnings, what will be the consequences? Imprisonment? A fine?

[Rhiannon12866]

11. I'm not a prosecutor, but jail would work for me...

[wnylib]

14. Me, too. But will a judge do that?

OTOH, if there are no serious consequences to Trump for violating court orders, he will stomp all over the legal process and make a complete mockery of it.

[Rhiannon12866]

15. He already has - he announced his own indictment and accused Joe Biden and Mike Pence of the same!

[ancianita]

12. This is a federal criminal case. The District Judge will make sure that Trump knows

the consequences he can exact if Trump mouths off in public. We'll find out what the judge will do on Tuesday, and I'll bet that it won't be the soft treatment Trump got in Manhattan.

[Rhiannon12866]

16. Thank you, and you have to be right since this is a federal case

Not to mention, who would be willing to take on Jack Smith??

[wnylib]

13. Here's what I expect from Trump.

He will verbally attack Smith and witnesses. He will attempt to intimidate witnesses. He will file numerous appeals and try to pull frivolous delaying tactics. He will waive his right to a speedy trial in order to drag out the trial date for after the elections.

He will get help from red state legislatures in rigging the election in his favor for their states. Some of those states would vote for him without needing any rigged interference. But some of them would be swing states with their voters unless the vote is fixed.

Trump will also get help from his lackeys in Congress. I'm not sure just what they will come up with, but they will try to run interference on his behalf.

He will claim that any gag orders are infringements on his free speech in campaigning. He will focus intensely on public opinion with the claim that charges and trials of a candidate are unAmerican and destructive to democracy. That will be his chief argument for swaying public opinion. There are Republicans and Independents who don't want him as president again, but they will be persuaded by Trump's argument that charging him with crimes is dangerous to democracy. That could translate into votes against Biden because he and his administration will be painted as the culprits. I don't think that would give Trump enough votes to beat Biden. It might help Trump win the primary.

Trump will also incite violence from his followers as a threat to DOJ for pursuing charges and a trial. I would not expect even Trump to be public about it this time. I do expect him to make arrangements secretly for outbreaks of violence. Don't know how many people would follow through, though. But I do expect at least sporadic putbreaks of violence, especially after campaign rallies when his supporters are agitated on his behalf.

Trump is desperate enough to go scorched earth in his attempts to get back into the WH. It's his only out.

I think that threats and the potential for violence will intensify as time for a trial gets closer, especially when Smith refuses to let Trump's frivolous delaying tactics succeed. There will be belligerent protests in Trump's defense.

We have a very interesting and precarious year ahead of us. Very important that we gain seats in both chambers of Congress.

[Rhiannon12866]

17. We know that Fani Willis has already taken precautions against this in Georgia

Aren't Jack Smith and his team already taking precautions against this on a national level??

[wnylib]

18. I don't know. Smith is a pro who knows what he's doing, but

Trump is also a pro at being a con man, gaslighter, and scofflaw. Trump is incapable of self restraint.

[Rhiannon12866]

19. I know, the first thing that we heard from TFG was him accusing Joe Biden and Mike Pence of the same

Thing that he's been indicted for. And the scary part is that there are the deluded out there who will believe his lies.

[wnylib]

20. Yes, public gullibility is scary.

But I think that it's less a matter of gullibility than of wanting to believe Trump because they share his attitudes. That's even worse, maybe, than being gullible.

A gullible person can be good but misguided. A "true believer" is just as bad as the person that they believe in.

[Rhiannon12866]

21. I was confronted by a TFG supporter at a meeting last week - just because he knows I don't support him

He said that he supports him because he's such a "great businessman!"

[ancianita]

22. Interesting. So you assume he'll be able to get away with what he got away with during his NY case?

Or that he'll even have the time between at least four court cases to do all that? Say he tries everything you expect, the "scorched earth" stuff you describe. No doubt he'll try. Under this federal criminal case, he'll be in jail and that will be the end of his presidential campaign. He could still be on ballots and voted for, but he won't be out in public. Federal criminal cases call for very different restrictions than civil cases.

[wnylib]

23. I believe that Trump will try and that

Last edited Fri Jun 9, 2023, 06:44 AM - Edit history (1)

he will push the envelope on defying restrictions. Trump is incapable of self restraint.

If he does not speak out publicly from fear of being jailed for it, he will work privately behind the scenes on getting solid red state legislatures to guarantee wins there. Might use surrogates to rile his base and promote violence.

Trump simply cannot do nothing when he feels victimized.

[ancianita]

24. Probably, because he can't help himself. And maybe he'll try the stealth stuff you describe.

The way I look at what to expect is what the District Judge does, and what state rethugs do.

I'm in Florida, which will have a permitless conceal and carry in effect by July 1. Still, folks are pretty much getting on with their lives. Florida had the 2nd most people at the capitol on Jan 6. Still, I don't see news of mobilizing.

That's one reason why I don't think there'll be much in the way of sporadic violence; some, but not much. There will always be threats, but every day on justice.gov we can see people being arrested by the DOJ for death threats.

Another reason is that trumpculter numbers are changing based on the fact that they didn't show any violent tendencies in Manhattan for his arraignment. And they didn't show up in Iowa for his political campaign rally, either. You mostly see him alone on videos or on some fake rally stage that doesn't show how small his audience is getting.

Another thing is how the thousand plus convictions of Jan 6 individuals has affected their families and communities across 50 states, and a whole lot of that 1,000+ are now on years of probation. Jan 6 extremists, like it or not, are having to learn the hard way that they can't repeat their actions; first, because every single one of them has been fined, and everyone in their area knows they're being monitored by the DOJ; second, the hypervigilance of the FBI field offices across 50 states will make sure they won't repeat their actions. There is a chill now.

The year ahead might actually go easier than we think. We'll see. It's been uphill since Jan 6, but what I see is that the loons and crazies are getting beaten back. Democrats and pro-democracy folk have been a big part of that. That the DOJ has been out to stop political mafia style rule of men violence, and makes attorneys get attorneys, is another big part of that chill.

Sure, there's bs rhetoric, hype and drama, but that's happened in past elections, anyway. We know their numbers won't beat ours in 2024 and they know it, too.

[Rhiannon12866]

25. Thanks so much for weighing in on this, we need all the reassurance we can get.

We can certainly hope that the most violent insurrectionists/TFG supporters have been apprehended, but he's been free for the past 2 1/2 years to inspire others. But I take your point that no pro-TFG protesters turned up in Manhattan. MTG showed up there hoping to join them, but she left after five minutes since she found no one.

[wnylib]

26. I agree that the convictions of

the J6 participants have cooled the general public enough that a massive action like J6 is unlikely. And militia leaders have also been convicted. But is it possible that Trump has learned from the J6 experience to cultivate people who are more professional and covert? I'm thinking of how political authoritarians can learn from attempted coup mistakes and change tactics, using supporters who are more professional and strategic in their actions.

The question is, has he cultivated people like that? He's maintained control of some people in Congress and some red state legislatures to help him politically. But does he have help available to him for any physical action? I don't know. He knows enough people who operate that way, but would they help him? Again, I don't know.

I hope that we're seeing Trump go down for good, with nothing but bluster to fight with. Others will carry on what he represented in politics, but with less manipulative skill.

[ancianita]

27. Okay. Well,

as for the rest, I think you're giving Trump more brain credit than he's really capable of. What's really going on, I think, with 'political authoritarians' is that they are tools of oligarchs trying to establish minority rule t. hrough fear narratives. As major papers have reported, oligarchs have withdrawn support for Trump and much of his online grifting income has dried up.

As well, the FBI is regaining its professional footing, with the most recent action being Garland and Wray suspending the so-called whistleblower for actually leaking ongoing investigation info in Jordan's weaponized stage that serves no legislative function.

I think we've been inured to trumpcult's craze for at least five years, and so we find it hard to believe they're dwindling, but I believe we're seeing what you say, that they're going down for good. Over time, the hoaxy fear narratives die out and give way to the honest, indisputable truth, much of which will come out during upcoming federal trials. Juries verdicts matter, and are almost never overturned, whether they like the verdicts or not.

This upcoming year we'll enjoy some long awaited justice, as trumpcult continues to learn the hard way.

[wnylib]

28. Yes, oligarchs support authoritarian politicians

in order to have their own minority rule. Sometimes those politicians gain enough control through followers and dictatorial rule that the oligarchs can't control them.

But you might be right that I give Trump too much credit for the intelligence needed to plan a return to power and line up more strategic and organized military types to help him in doing that.

I sure hope that I am.