Pic Of The Moment: This Is Nuts

[EarlG]

Bill Clinton: Gun control opposition 'is nuts'

Follow @demunderground

[onehandle]

1. Bring on the NRA talking points! nt

[appal_jack]

7. No need, the people have spoken with their wallets...

No need for any talking points from the NRA (which only has a few million members), the people have spoken much more broadly with their wallets. Millions of the 'clips' Clinton (erroneously) speaks of (yes, they are called magazines; and yes, words matter) have sold since mid December. More than a hundred million of them were already lawfully owned by Americans before this current panic. Now only one company, Magpul, supposedly reports having more than a million mags on backorder (I have also heard this number disputed, so please take it as a possible example, rather than a fact).

But one company's backlog is just the tip of the iceberg. Millions of AK's and AR's have sold in the past decade. Hundreds of thousands more have sold in the past month. Many shooters like them as modern sporting rifles. These shooters speak with not only their wallets, but also their votes. I fear that many Democrats' tone-deaf talk of gun control is alienating them like no other issue can.

Clinton used to acknowledge that the misguided legislation known as the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban was the primary reason why Congress was lost to the Republicans that year. Has he already forgotten this fact, or is he willingly leading Obama down the same dead end?

-app

[azureblue]

9. you must be a lousy shot

Any real hunter can kill his game with one shot. Our forefathers could do it with a black powder musket. Until you can bring down a turkey in flight with a bolt action rifle, you have no business owning a gun.Unless you have some sort of fantasy you need to fulfill.

[appal_jack]

12. Did I even mention my own possessions or shooting above? No.

Did I even mention my own possessions or shooting above? No. So why the ad hominem attack?

If you believe that the Second Amendment needs to be modified with a shooting qualification clause, you are free to adocate for that.

Full disclosure: I passed my state's ccw qualification test on my first try, and I did it using a traditional, S&W, 5-shot revolver. I am not (yet) a hunter, so I have nothing to add about hunting skills...

-app

[azureblue]

18. It's not about hunting skills

it's about knowing how to aim the thing. I grew up in the hunting culture of the deep south, and my friends and I were drilled with gun safety and marksmanship. Your rights, your permit, don't mean a thing if you can hit what you are pointing at, in the heat of the moment / hunt. Marksmanship skills are applicable no matter what the situation is hunting or self defense. I've known some CCW guys who did stupid things like hold the gun with their finger resting on the trigger. Stupid. And they got their permits with minimal marksmanship skills, that were little more like throwing a lot of lead at a piece of hanging paper, and no real world situations. You can holler about your right to own a gun all you want to, but if you can't aim the thing, you are dangerous to your self and others. If you think that a rapid fire weapon will make you better, then you are admitting you can't hit the proverbial broad side of barn.

[azureblue]

19. To PS

the point I am making,and the point that all "last half of the Second Amendment" (let's all ignore the "Well regulated" part, shall we?) proponents seem to avoid is this: Why do you want to own a semi automatic weapon in the first place? Most of the justifications I get amount to an arms race with some "foe". Or " we don't need no fancy reason". "We just want to be able to spray lead all over the place." The conspiracy wing seems to think that semis and autos will protect them from the gubmint, but let me tell you, I don't care how many 50 cals you own, the US has much bigger and more accurate. There is no reason to own one for hunting, for self defense (those things will throw 223's through walls, and could kill someone on the other side, and a shotgun is far better for hime defense, anyway), you can't carry one with you in public, if you are afraid of getting attacked, so what is the reason? For self protection, a concealed weapon is only good if you can draw it before your attacker gets too close to you and does not already have a gun aimed at you. In the end, the only reason is "just because", and I find that reason is voiced by those who, again, couldn't hit the side of a barn.

[libdem4life]

30. Two reasons I can think of: 1) Paranoia 2) Rambo Wannabes ... too much TV/movies

Many of the old bunch that used to love to hate the evil arm of the government ... FEMA ... and the immiment secret Concentration Camps coming to a town nearby. Many of these paranoid ramblers have or are now filling out applications for their share of disaster money when Acts of God (insurance term) happen to involve them.

Same folk still waving around 2 or 3 machine guns...aka Alex Jones with his cache of 50...ready to join the local militia...against the government.

No other possible reason.

[appal_jack]

40. We agree about the importance of safety & marksmanship. nt.

[sinkingfeeling]

10. I'm amazed that so many can find the money to stockpile semi-automatics and magazines

when they claim they're too poor to buy health insurance. Since guns and ammo are especially loved and worshipped in the Southern states, I wonder why they rely on government for so much.

[primavera]

14. The stakes are high, it's true

But 30,000 bullet-riddled corpses per year and the highest per capita gun death rate of any developed nation ought to be a strong motivator to do something even if it is politically risky. If politicians never took risks, we would still be in the Dark Ages without Social Security, without Medicare, without the 8 hour work day, without child labor laws, without the minimum wage, etc., all of which were fought against tooth and nail. If gun owners would wake up and realize that they are on the wrong side of history and stand alone in a world that has uniformly recognized the threat of guns and taken strong measures to regulate them, it would certainly make life easier for all of us. But, even if they don't, we can no more allow ourselves to be deterred by their tragically backwards thinking than we could allow ourselves to proceed as a nation that tolerated slavery.

[WinkyDink]

16. So be it, and sayonara to those morons.

[Jackpine Radical]

28. Jeez, you're right--

Obama's gonna blow his re-election chances if he goes after the guns.

[Maynar]

45. I see what you did there

[upaloopa]

32. The majority don't give a fuck what those

magazine buyers think any more. You all are on the wrong side of history and poorer because of you stupid worship of the almighty powerful gun lobby.
Stop with the threats already, that's old news.

[appal_jack]

38. If the Republicans sweep 2014...

If the Republicans sweep 2014 (a possibility I recoil against - I am a pro-RKBA, pro-choice, pro-speech, pro-privacy, pro-liberty Democrat), I'll be sure to remind you about these contemptuous words. Methinks that your 'strategy' for garnering a majority is flawed at best. Arrogance & hostility are rarely good recruiting traits.

-app

[michigandem58]

48. How did the NRA do in the 2012 elections?

I'll save you the trouble - not well.

The NRA's influence is overrated. The meme is always the same - when repugs have a big year, they take credit. When they don't, they're awfully quiet. It's time to stop fearing the paper tiger and start doing what's right.

[October]

36. There's nothing "sporting" about those guns.

[appal_jack]

39. All modern firearms are based on military designs.

All modern firearms are based on military designs, and all can have sporting purposes. Conversely, a single-shot .22 could be a terrible murder weapon, if misused with malice. I favor reducing actual assaults, not arbitrarily designating some firearms 'assault weapons.' My rifles and pistols have assaulted precisely no one.

-app

[October]

37. Well, the rest of us -- and we are the majority -- might have to shout a little louder.

ENOUGH!

[Left Brain]

41. Two-way street

Many gun control advocates speak with not only their wallets, but also their votes. I fear that many Republicans' tone-deaf talk is alienating them like no other issue can.

Should the "shooters," interpretation of 2nd Amendment rights trump the rights of those whose interpretation is REGULATION? As in, "a well REGULATED militia..."

[Mojorabbit]

2. Nobody needs them.

It is not a question of need I would think.
I don't need five sets of dishes.
I don't think need is the issue.

[Coyotl]

3. YES!

[babylonsister]

4. Thank you! nt

[Indydem]

5. That's too bad. It isn't true.

There are plenty of mass killings prior to 2004, and they out number the 8 or so since then.

[Indydem]

11. A list proving it isn't true.

This list is 10+ killed. If you add in 5+ it is far more significant prior to 2004.

12/12 – Newtown
7/12 – Aurora
11/09 – Fort Hood
4/09 – Binghampton, NY
3/09 – Alabama
4/07 – Virginia Tech

ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN EXPIRES

4/99 – Columbine
10/91 – Killeen TX
3/90 –Happyland Arson
8/86 – Edmond, OK
7/84 – San Ysirdo, CA
9/82 – Wilkes-Barre, PA
8/66 - UT Austin
9/49 – Camden, NJ
5/27 – Bath Twp, MI
9/1857 – Mountain Meadows, UT (120 Dead)


http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/

[PotatoChip]

15. So those Mormon guys were carrying assault weapons in 1857?

I'm pretty sure that is what the Big Dog is referring to.

Oh and btw, your link only goes back to 1988, so from what source are you getting the bottom 7?

[naaman fletcher]

24. Well

If you pull out a shooting before the AWB because it wasn't with assault weapons, then you also have to pull out a post AWB shooting if it didn't use assault weapons.

For example, Virginia Tech was not assault weapons.

[WinkyDink]

17. Bwah! You know more than Bill Clinton? Give it up.

[Ashgrey77]

27. Bill Clinton isn't superman.

People can read the same statistics. Bill doesn't have monopoly on research.

[sinkingfeeling]

29. Yep, 6 in the last 41/2 years vs. 10 in the preceeding 156 years.

[nyquil_man]

33. Mountain Meadows? Seriously?

Those murders were carried out by a militia made up of Paiutes and Mormons. Nine LDS leaders were ultimately indicted for their involvement. It's not quite the same as one or two people raining fire on a group of people.

Or are you contending that John D. Lee did it all himself?

[Auggie]

6. Kudos to the Secretary of Explaining Stuff

[PotatoChip]

8. That is one sobering statistic.

Half of all mass killings in the United States have occurred since the assault weapons ban expired in 2005. Half in all the history of the country.

Ugh!

[DallasNE]

22. And Every Shooter Has Had A High Capacity Clip

In their Glock or AR-15.

[naaman fletcher]

25. FYI

It's not a clip,it's a magazine.

[Lithos]

34. There are two types of people

That when in a fox hole and someone yells give me a clip, one will argue for 10 minutes that's it is a magazine and not a clip. The other person will pass along some ammunition.

Some guns use clips (eg. a Garand) while others use magazines. For the longest time the US Army used the term clip to describe the M1911 when today it would be considered more proper to say magazine.

It's not exactly as clear cut as you describe.

[naaman fletcher]

43. Perhaps,

Your point is interesting that the US used that term for the M1911, I had not heard that before. thanks

[tclambert]

49. I thought the two kinds of people in the world were

people who agree with me and stupid people.

[tclambert]

35. Well, if you're gonna go on a shooting spree, wouldn't you wanna take the high-capacity magazine

or clip or bullet-carrying thingy? Of course, you would. It's just common sense. If you're going on a spree, you don't wanna hafta reload every 30 seconds.

[naaman fletcher]

44. Correct

but if limited to 10 round magazines are you going to choose not to go on your spree or instead take more magazines and/or guns?

[DallasNE]

46. What Happened In Tuscon?

The shooter was taken down when he had to stop to reload. Just think if he had been taken down after 10 rounds rather than after 30 rounds. Do the math.

[naaman fletcher]

47. Didn't know that, thanks. Nt

[samsingh]

13. kick a 1000 times

[jtuck004]

20. Speaking of nuts, try signing a bill that lets banks hide trillions of dollars in liability,

here, stripping away law that protected the American people for 66 years and allowing banks to hide derivative activity and and self-regulate because it would be good for business. Later you complain you got bad advice, but that doesn't even begin to heal the pain visited on over 5 million families who have lost their homes to predatory foreclosure, families considered "working poor" have increased to over 10 million, and food stamp usage has never been higher. All caused by banks who report more profit and financial health than they have ever enjoyed in modern history, allowed to do that because of the removal of those protections from 1933. And now they talk about suing the people, the government, that indemnified their fraud and theft.

Given that we know heart attacks, strokes, and death occur much more often among those who have been foreclosed on, and that death often comes earlier to people in poverty than those who are wealthy, and that those don't hit the newspaper it is almost impossible to count the early or tragic deaths that result from bad economic policy, but it's very likely to be higher than the 11,000 or so gun homicides we have every year.

Nuts doesn't even begin to describe that ongoing tragedy.

But he's right, we are far too loose with guns.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

21. Here, here Bill!

Unfortunately, I've seen people even here on DU claim you need an AR-15 with 30 round clips to hunt....from helicopters!

[naaman fletcher]

26. Need is not the issue

I don't need to do lots of things that I have the right to do.

[liberal N proud]

23. Obama should ask Bill Clinton to head a task force to control these killing machines.

[RedCloud]

31. Recall Sand Creek and Washita River

That's where the creeks ran red with blood,
women, children lying all around
babies dying like dogs in the mud

But it's one little two little three little four
five little Indians'll never dance no more
six little seven little eight little nine little ten,
ten little Indians' you'll never see again

You don't get over 100,000,000 native Americans and over 100,000,000 Africans killed in the New World or fighting slavers in the Home countries through genocide without mass murders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_Creek_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Washita_River

[In_The_Wind]

42. Ban all private ownership of assault weapons.