Dr. Cornel West: "MLK Today Could Be Taken to Jail Without Due Process Under the NDAA"

[Purveyor]

Just saw this on my local PBS...ponder!

[MrSlayer]

1. Sure he could be but wouldn't.

That just looks bad. They would just do what they did.

[villager]

9. You mean hatch a conspiracy to assassinate him before he could organize poor people...

...across color lines?

Well, yeah. They probably would.

[rocktivity]

2. Who couldn't be?

As the good doctor continues trolling for a network job...

http://www.aljazeerausannouncement.com/jobs.html


rocktivity

[Purveyor]

3. Care to elaborate...your link provided shit re:cornell west... eom

[rocktivity]

4. My link was meant to provide a way for West to advance his punditry career

without resorting to disingenuous, race-baiting, attention-getting outbursts.

Another recent example: http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10022246619


rocktivity

[Purveyor]

6. I'm sure he will be pleased...eom

[20score]

8. Ad hominem arguments don’t really add a lot to the discussion.

Can you do better and address the substance?

[rocktivity]

25. My argument is that Dr. Cornell West has made a speciality

Last edited Sun Jan 27, 2013, 02:49 AM - Edit history (3)

of making ad hominem arguments don’t really add a lot to the discussion.

So I gave him a dose of his own medicine -- if you'll pardon the expression.


rocktivity

[jberryhill]

5. And the president has sole discretion to launch nukes

For decades, the president has had the sole power and authority to launch nuclear weapons at any time.

[02potato]

18. Yes, he does, however..

It's a lot harder to hide an exploding nuke than the occasional drone-assassinated citizen...

[DeSwiss]

7. TRUTH.

K&R

[graham4anything]

10. Dr. King was arrested, and Dr. King did not whine about it either

West on the other hand is a proud supporter of Ralph Nader, who worked in cahoots with republicans in 2000 to throw the election to George W. Bush.
That is who Cornel West is.

As a fan of Nader, he is a fan of George W. Bush.Being that they all work the same side.

[kevm1550]

11. Absolute Hogwash!

Apparently unbeknownst to you, there exists a rapidly expanding populace who are not dumbed into the self-defeating ideology that the Democrat/Republican option is the saving end all.

I (and many others) am a proud liberal who has woken up to the fact that the Democratic Party has failed the people. The evidence mounts daily.

I (and many others) will no longer vote for the lesser of two evils.

Your ill-thought equation only supports our cause.

[02potato]

15. FYI ... lesser of two evils.

I did 'nt vote that way as well...

[graham4anything]

16. Then why are you on DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND? Just asking? Go to a 3rd party site

[raindaddy]

12. Guilt By Association

Using that logic guess we could also include the President, who is a proud supporter of Robert Gates. And as a fan of Gates he's a fan of George W. Bush....

What separates Cornel West from 98% of the voices we hear coming from DC is you can always count on him to tell the truth.

[graham4anything]

17. He is paid handsomely for his views. $$$. He is a Naderite Paulite.

[raindaddy]

20. Where have I heard that argument?

You can't criticize the system unless you're completely surviving outside of it? The old Republican argument, Michael Moore's hypocrite because his films have made money? Excuse the guy for not taking a vow of poverty and delivering his message on street corners.

[graham4anything]

27. except that West IS a naderite, paulite and not a democratic person. Therefore, it goes w/o saying

It's not that he made money
It's that he consistently makes money NOT being a democratic supporter

Of course, if he were a member of the house or senate, he would have more standing.

Elizabeth Warren put her money where her mouth is and is part of the system (thanks to Barack Obama btw).

You gotta be in it to win it, otherwise a professional like West is just an outsider paid nicely to keep spewing(and NO different than any other talking head like Rush Limbaugh).

[raindaddy]

31. I'll never understand people who place party over substance.

A party is only as strong it's willingness to accept criticism and evolve. You're doing a great job of demonstrating why people like Dr. West are essential. The more attached you become to a party and it's doctrine the harder it is to be objective.

Dr. West makes money because there are enough people who value his opinion. Not always true for a congress that for the most part values the opinion of their favorite lobbyists over the welfare of the people they're paid to represent.

Equating West with Limbaugh because they're "outsiders" makes about as much sense as equating Obama with Bush because they're both a part of the system.

[graham4anything]

32. because there are only two sides. When push comes to shove, one is better than the other

for everyone, regardless of which side

anyone who didn't vote for Gore has to then be happy with Bush, because well, they have no right to whine as they did not vote for the person who wouldn't have done what Bush did.

it really is quite easy

of course, if one lived in the UK where blocs allow a 3rd party the ability to win
well, remember the US fought to get away from England didn't they?
So professing the constitution, the constitution, then wanting to be like England is contradictory.

One can push for better, but know when pushing too much leads to the other guy

[bvar22]

24. ..and you CLEARLY have never read the "Letter from Birmingham Jail"...

...or you would never have made such a dismissive and ill informed proclamation as [font size=3 color=red]
"Dr. King did not whine about it either"[/font] ---direct quote form graham4anything, post #10, this thread

If you had ever read Letter, you would instantly recognize that Dr West is channeling the thoughts, ideas, and the political philosophy of MLK.

....but I guess to some, that will always be whining.

Waaaaa. We don't have Civil Rights, Equal Protections, and Equal Opportunity"
Waaa, waaa, waaaa.
Bunch of whiners spewing Republican Talking Points!!!


Here.
Go read this:
Letter from Birmingham Jail
http://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/documents/letter_birmingham_jail.pdf

...and then make an educated and thoughtful comment about the substance of the OP.



[font color=firebrick] [center]"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone[/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]

[graham4anything]

28. Paul Wellstone IS a democratic person ALWAYS. He never left the party, he supported Al Gore.

(you have a big picture of Wellstone).(Who was NOT an anarchist, NOT on the outside, but working within.

As for Dr. King-

He did not whine, he orated. There is a difference.He worked FOR something, had a GOAL at the end of the day that was attainable years down the road, did NOT demand it right here right now, did NOT linger in one place til he wore out his welcome. He went in, he went out.
HE DID IT PEACEFULLY and unlike your avitar, he did not blow up buildings for fun and all.
He did it peaceful,and it worked.
He wasn't whining about himself(in fact, he forecast his future, and he got stronger for it, and he wasn't whining that he knew the end was coming, he said it matter of factly but did not hide, preservered for the cause and again, forever will people remember Dr. King).

(In fact, being that you like fictional symbols- it is almost like as if George Lucas wrote the character of Obi-Wan Kanobi based on Dr. King.)


And what vote gave V the right to speak in anyones name especially when 90% of the regular people in the democratic party LIKE Barack Obama and the direction this country is going in, and the adults know it takes time and the country is founded and run getting change slowly, and not quickly because a mob rushing to change something, normally, after rationally looking at things, the mob is not on the side of good at all.

I.E. the tea party libertarian republicans who do things in the dark of night, wearing masks
(i.e. Bush a compassionate conservative) then tearing everything down.

also
in fact, the V mask a small percentage of people admire so(not me, I why I have no idea others do), is indeed terroristic.
A mask, why, isn't that what the KKK wore, except their mask was a sheet?

[bvar22]

29. And WHO decides that MLK was "orating" but West is "whining".

YOU??!!!!
LOL
Its hard to hear you over the noise from all the axes you are grinding.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever actually read Letter From a Birmingham Jail?
Judging from your text, I would have to say "NO".

Do you even know if MLK was a Democrat?
He was VERY vocal in his criticism of the Democratic Party.



...and you don't need to tell ME about Paul Wellstone.
I was THERE in Minnesota. He was my Senator. I worked on his campaigns.
I heard him speak in public, but I also heard him speak off the record at campaign HQ to staffers and in conversations with impromptu crowds of supporters and friends.

He was very discouraged by the Conservative elements of the Democratic Party blocking anything even remotely "Democratic" from happening.
I will trust my personal memories of Paul
over your fantasies of who you would like him to have been.



[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]


You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.

[graham4anything]

30. We only KNOW people by what is on the public record

everybody says things in silence
they say things when they are mad
they say things when they are frustrated

why we have "court jesters" on both sides that say alot of things

but what WE THE PEOPLE know is

How they vote when their vote is the tie breaking vote (the 51st or 60th) needed

We KNOW Dennis Kucinich, Paul Wellstone, and Bernie Sanders ALWAYS voted/vote with the democratic party when their vote matters
When it doesn't, they vote whatever, because they are free to do so

As Kristofferson wrote" Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"
i.e. meaning one is only free if they already lost.
Of course, libertarians, anarchists and others misinterpret those words all the time and take it to mean otherwise.(like the NRA misinterprets the 2nd).

in reality, the old serenity canard always applies

accept what one cannot change
change what one can
AND HAVE THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE
(i.e.-you can't change everything to be 100% of what you like

so if you are an absolutist going for 100% you will lose 100% of the time and get nothing.

Realists know 10% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

(i.e. in baseball a great hitter is one with a Batting average of .333.
Meaning they get out .667 of the time or more.
Nobody bats 1000.
Nobody goes their whole life without dying.

and only losers with no one and nothing, have complete absolute freedom

The USA is based on the multitudes, not no ones.
Therefore complete freedom is not possible as that only applies to losers

and being in a political game in a political world doing bad stuff, is a negative
being in a political game in a political world and stating "If you build it, they will come" is a positive because there is no threat, no damage, no undoing.
There is just the statement, follow me for the good

Not do this OR ELSE

Should be easy to see, but alas, it won't be.

Paul Wellstone knew the difference. Which is why in public he supported Al Gore.
Al Franken supported Al Gore. Angus King supports the Democratic party.

(btw, Ralph Nader supported George Bush and was financed by the republican party.
Ross Perot supported W and will support Jeb. He did not hate their philosophy, he had a personal grudge against 41 himself, but not his family.
Ron Paul IS/WAS always will be part of the republican party as is his far worse son.
Ron Paul was/is a fraud and a racist. No conspiracy theory just fact from his own campaign stuff and his fans.
You are what you associate with. Unless one is infiltrating the organization of course for ulterior motives.

imho

as Dr. King was NOT a politician, what political party he was in mattered little.
And Abraham Lincoln was a republican.
But there is NOT one republican today that is on the side of Abraham Lincoln.
Majority of those republicans were on the side of his enemies in the civil war.
Of course, Lincoln saw the big picture 10 steps ahead.
Lincoln and President Obama are eerily similiar people. it is truly amazing that each had the foresight the other has.
While President Obama would be akin to being the son of Dr. King so to say,
President Lincoln and President Obama are almost one and the same in an odd sort of way.

Almost as if there was real life time travel...or reincarnation...hmmm...

(of course, Lincoln haters said alot of the same thing Obama haters say too. eerily so.)

[bvar22]

35. Please forgive me for the delay in responding.

We have an inviolate ritual every Saturday night that begins a 5PM Central.
We turn off everything, open a bottle of wine, and tune in to Prairie Home Companion on NPR.
Ironically, the last time I saw Paul Wellstone alive, he was with Garrison Keillor
at a Labor Day Picnic in St Paul.


Unfortunately, I found it impossible to make any sense at all out of your above post.

I recommend that you sit down,

take some time to organize your thoughts,

decide exactly WHAT it is you want to say,

and then structure your response into version that makes logical sense in the written English language.

Having graded high school English Composition papers for a number of years,
I'm pretty good at deciphering incoherent nightmares of conflicting ideas,
unsupported allegations, and illogical flights of fantasy,
to arrive at a some idea of what the author is trying to say,
but I failed at deciphering your last post.

The only translation I can provide is that you are unhappy with what Dr. Cornel West said in the above video, but are unable to explain why in a fashion that is organized, logical, coherent and legible.

Please pick one of these topics that I have distilled from your above posts,
expand your thinking on the subject, and supply some external support for your conclusions so that we can have a further discussion.

Am I correct that you have expressed the opinion that:

*MLK advocated working within the system?

*Paul Wellstone was a "good democrat" who never criticized the Party?

*that Working within the system means never addressing a Democratic Party failure

*that you believe I am advocating "blowing stuff up"?

*that you believe I am not a good Democrat and you are because.....?
(please be specific and compose your reply in a logical fashion,
preferably where one thought builds upon another in a linear progression.)


And could you please post a list objective criteria that can be used to distinguish "whining" from "orating"?


---bvar22
a loyal, mainstream-center, FDR/LBJ Working Class Democratic Party activist for over 46 years

[Doctor_J]

13. Dr. West doesn't understand chess

he never liked Obama. He's a racist.

[bvar22]

23. Excellent summation.

Like Nader and Kucinich, he is just an Attention Whore secretly in cahoots with Republicans.
Damn him and his Right Wing Talking Points!

What does HE know about MLK anyway.
If he really cared about the Minorities and The Poor, he would STFU.



[font color=firebrick size=3][center]The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of The Wealthy & The Powerful at the EXPENSE of The Working Class and The POOR. [/font][/center]

[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity![/font]

[Doctor_J]

39. There is too much NDAA love at DU

Ask yourself, would you want Bush wielding this?

[JoePhilly]

14. And yet Dr. West continues to walk free.

[freshwest]

26. Um, you noticed that, even after accusing the King family of wrong doing. Cornel knows best.

[20score]

19. Not one critic addressed the substance of what he said. Just attacks on his person.

I don't understand the anger, (because none of you have explained it) but the lack of understanding of the issues is very evident.

[choie]

22. the reason for the anger is also evident

anybody who deigns to criticize Obama is vilified...

[blackspade]

21. Cornel West is a national treasure.

[donheld]

33. Ann Coulter could be taken to jail without due process under the NDAA

As could all of fox news. They haven't been nor will be so I think the good Dr's point is invalid.

[Purveyor]

34. Ann who? eom

[bvar22]

37. That doesn't make any sense.

Ann Coulter is still free,
so we shouldn't be worried about government usurpation of Civil Liberties and Constitutional Protections?

So you trust Obama with these extra-Constitutional War Time Powers
based on an perpetual War on the Word "Terror"?
What happens when we finally defeat the tactic of "Terror", and the War is WON?
Do you expect future Presidents to return these inalienable rights to the citizens?

What happens when the Republicans regain the White House?
Will you go along quietly into THAT Good Night?

When they didn't come for Ann Coulter,
I thought everything was peachy,
so I just followed the other lemmings.

[donheld]

38. I didn't say I liked this policy now did I?

[EastKYLiberal]

36. This is the same type of paranoia that gun nuts have about door-to-door confiscation. nt