Any Beatles experts here?

[Mike 03]

I really like the later work of the Beatles but don't know much about the band. I was looking into the backstory of the song "Let It Be", which I really like, and discovered that John Lennon hated that song and said some really mean things about it. Artists have to have thick skins, but it surprised me that such tough criticism came from a fellow bandmate.

That made me wonder, were Paul and John friends? Did they get along both before and after the break up? I guess what I'm asking is: Did they like each other? Was this breakup a bad breakup, or a soft breakup like Simon and Garfunkel, where they remained friends?

I really should research the breakup, as I'm sure there are entire books about this. Sorry for asking without researching it myself. But it was something I was wondering about and haven't had time to research.

Thanks in advance for any info (or book recommendations).

[DonaldsRump]

1. They were great friends, but they were big time going their separate ways during Let It Be

This was January 1969, and they had just released The White Album (officially "The Beatles" ), which was a monster seller.

Paul wanted to go on tour or do some kind of event, but John and George detested that idea and hated the idea of touring again, after they stopped doing so in 1966. So, they settled for doing a rooftop concert on top of their building on 3 Saville Row in London on January 30. This is a brilliant 20 minutes of music. You should be able to find videos online. This is historically important, as it's the last Beatles "concert". Watch the video and see the reactions

I don't think John truly detested the song "Let it Be". I think he thought Paul was trying to do a "Bridge over Troubled Water"-type song, and didn't quite understand what Paul was trying to do with the song. But in any event, as always, the single release was a massive seller.

All of Let it Be's basic tracks were recorded in January 1969, but the album wasn't released until May 1970. Phil Spector was hired to produce the album and re-do arrangements, and Paul went ballistic at some of the "new versions" of songs he had written. "The Long and Winding Road" was meant to be simple piano ballad, but after Spector got ahold of it, it had harps, angelic voices etc. This song was a key part of the massive litigation that Paul had with John, George, and Ringo as part of the Beatles' break-up.

The boys (John, Paul, and George) had been together since they were something like 13-16, so it was going a bit old for them, especially as each of them matured into adults when Paul announced he was leaving the Beatles in April 1970. In addition, John had already said he was leaving in September 1969, but was asked to keep it quiet since they were re-negotiating their record contract with Capitol/EMI.

Take a look at the song "How Do You Sleep" from John's 1971 Imagine album. It is squarely directed at Paul and FULL of venom. However, later, John said that he loved the other Beatles, including Paul. Apparently, John and Paul met up in the mid-1970s. There's a movie about this somewhere, but I haven't seen it.

(Also, as an aside, for anyone who blames Yoko Ono for the Beatles break-up, take a look at video of John from 1967 and early 1968. He looks lost and dazed. Then take a look at video after John hooked up with Yoko in May 1968...he has become a totally different person, full of like and energy. I think this is when he found and released his revolutionary spirit. Also, Yoko Ono was a very famous performance artist well before she met John. She was part of the Fluxus movement in NYC, and her friends were some pretty stellar folks like John Cage and Andy Warhol. Remember - this was BEFORE she met John. Listen to John and Yoko's final album "Double Fantasy", and please tell me what you think of their relationship after hearing that. Yes, some of Yoko's screeching is pretty wild, but I have great admiration for her and the way she has honored John's legacy.)

So yes and no to the question about whether John hated Paul.

[Mike 03]

8. Thank you very much! This is excellent information.

It really makes me want to read some books to learn more. Had no idea Phil Spector had produced their work.

[lapucelle]

2. They were adolescent friends/bandmates who outgrew each other artistcally...

... and there was additional stress caused by their partners having influence on both the musical work and the business end.

[Mike 03]

9. Thank you. Other posters have pointed out how young they were so I

can definitely understand them growing apart aesthetically.

[JenniferJuniper]

3. It was a relatively bad break up.

Both John and Paul wrote nasty songs about each other in the aftermath. Paul's was Too Many People and John's was How Do You Sleep, I believe in response. George was on John's side, btw. Ringo stayed neutral as I recall.

I say relatively bad because they did see each other from time to time. In fact, on one SNL in 1976 when Lorne Michaels offered the Beatles 3,000 bucks to reform (3k, not 4k. I think he suggested Ringo get less?) Paul was visiting John at his home in New York watching the show and they almost went down to 30 Rock together to crash the show. Wouldn't that have been something?

Lennon used to sometimes wear a button that said "I Love Paul" so he could point to it when people asked about their relationship.

[Mike 03]

10. Thank you for the information.

That's amusing about the "I Love Paul" button.

That SNL story is amazing.

[unblock]

4. they were great friends early on. john and paul shared a room when they toured

george and ringo shared another room. no separate rooms, bands were all on the cheap in those days.

they collaborated on a lot of early songs. even in the later years, when the songs were really written by one or the other, there would still be respected input from the other, change the phrasing here, how about this word instead, make it a little more swingy, etc.

john didn't like "let it be" in part because of the religious overtones. he knew "mother mary" meant paul's mom, but he also understood that other people wouldn't hear it that way.

the breakup was certainly bitter, they had gotten on each other nerves. they likely would have broken up earlier and stayed better friends, but they were under pressure commercially so they stayed together, made some great final albums, but added to the strain.

john and paul went at it, criticizing each other, mostly shortly after the breakup. but after that, they remained in occasional contact and considered each other friends, i don't think they hung out much if at all, but i suspect they did chat by phone sometimes. supposedly, in december 1980, john was going to travel away from new york but stayed longer than had had planned, in order to meet with paul to talk about a joint project. then he was shot and killed.

[Mike 03]

11. Thank you. If they had broken up earlier some of their most amazing work

might not have made it to albums.

[malthaussen]

15. They alternated room sharing.

This was George's idea, to keep the group integrated. Each night they would room with a different partner.

Not a bad idea, but the songwriting revenues were always going to cause a gap between the "haves" and the "have nots." Especially as the songwriters usually wrote songs with their own voice prominent -- which left George and Ringo somewhat on the outside looking in.

-- Mal

[Yavin4]

5. Bands that started out young and achieve unusual success typically break up.

People get older. They get married. Have children and money. They tire of each other. They say things that they later regret. There are a few exceptions like the Stones, but even they have had their issues with one another.

I'm convinced that had John lived the band would have reunited as they matured further.

[Mike 03]

12. True. Bands like Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins come to mind.

They began young, got on each others' nerves, fell apart. Sometimes the bandmates mellow and get back together.

I wish the band Pink Floyd had been able to reunite, but they couldn't even get through one concert without it exploding all over again.

[Cracklin Charlie]

6. Who? The Beatles?

They’ll never make it.

[Mike 03]

13. ...

So many talented bands don't make it. It's bone chilling to think, "What if just one executive with poor judgment had told the Beatles they should give up trying to make music?"

[malthaussen]

16. Surely you jest.

That happened more than once on their rise to fame. After all, Decca rejected them for a recording contract as early as January of 1962. They kept on anyway, because they were stubborn bastards.

They came very close to breaking up before Epstein took over managing them. He increased their revenues about five-fold, but it was still a rocky road to getting their first single recorded. A better "what if" is "What if George Martin had not been having an affair with his secretary and the management of Parlaphone hadn't wanted to punish him by making him record the Beatles?"

-- Mal

[malthaussen]

18. Really. Who ever heard of a left-handed bass player?

Besides, as Dick Rowe is alleged to have said (he denies it), "Groups of guitars [are] on their way out."

The quote is probably apocryphal, since in January of 1962, "groups of guitars" had never been *in*.

-- Mal

[Archetypist]

7. They were friends

But John could be a really mean-spirited and jealous. Paul is no saint either.

[Mike 03]

14. Thank you.

All the above responses really make me hope that at some point I can read some books about the Beatles.

[malthaussen]

17. The relationship was complicated.

John and Paul were great friends. Paul absolutely worshipped John, and was insanely jealous of him. (Not that Lennon was any saint, you understand, but he was used to having the dominant role in most of his relationships). The friendship suffered its first strains when John and Stu Sutcliffe became close friends. Unlike most of his relationships, John was in awe of Stu (for his artistic talent and general cool), rather than vice-versa. Stu became closer to John than Paul, and Paul resented it greatly, eventually leading to a punch-up outside the Top Ten club (over an ostensibly different reason). Well, Stu's interests were more in art than music, and he fell in love in Germany, and eventually left the band, then died of a cerebral haemorrhage. Which resolved that issue a bit, at least until John fell in love with That Woman. This, combined with artistic differences caused the major split between John and Paul, which was a major factor in the group splitting up.

For the first years of the Beatles, you can do no better than Mark Lewisohn's Tune In, although the abridged version is 800 pages and the "full" version is some 1500 or so (and carries a price tag over $100.00). But that covers the Beatles up to only 1962, which won't help you with the breakup gossip. He was supposed to release the second volume (it is intended as a trilogy) this year, but various delays made that a pipe dream (a shame, I'd like to read it). The end times won't come until Volume Three, if you're prepared to wait about 20 years and you both should live so long (I doubt I will).

-- Mal