How much should a landlord deduct from security deposit for a very dirty range?

[Rorey]

I ended the lease with a tenant because I'm putting the rental on the market to sell. The tenant did not want to move, and I even allowed her to stay an extra week.

When she moved in, the house was pristine. I'm not exaggerating. I have always made sure to have my rentals move-in ready, and I always put up a new shower curtain and leave some basic things like hand soap and paper towels and toilet paper.

The range was truly disgusting. I spent hours cleaning it, and I'm still not quite done. I don't want to be unfair, but yet I don't think I should just let it go.

So, does anyone know the going rate for cleaning an oven these days?

[Agschmid]

1. What was the total amount of the security deposit? 5%?

[Rorey]

2. A percentage?

Her deposit was a little less than $600. She is on Section 8, and I know we had to work around some things to get her into the house. I made some concessions. Long story, but the house had a little history which wasn't exactly pleasant, and I was worried about getting it rented. I was straightforward with this tenant about what had happened, but she still wanted to rent my cute little house.

[MLAA]

3. I'd use what it would have taken you to hire a professional cleaner

So something like $25 an hour times however many hours you spent on it.

[Rorey]

6. Looking on the 'net, professionals are very expensive

I didn't even realize there were professional oven cleaners.

[MLAA]

17. As you can attest it's hard work!

[MLAA]

20. As you can attest it's hard work!

[Rorey]

23. I did finally find out what works best

I've tried the pricier oven cleaners, but what I've found works the best is the cheap oven cleaner from the dollar store. I'm sure it's terribly toxic, and I probably took a year off my life using it. I cover my mouth with a heavy towel and spray as fast as I can and run out of there. This time I had already tried two other kinds, then found a can of the cheap stuff in my stash. You don't even have to wait the two hours. It's crazy.

But it's probably very toxic.

[MLAA]

25. Everything is a trade off haha!

I worked in Shanghai for a few years and loved it but no doubt all that pollution shaved a few years off my life 😜

[Rorey]

28. I'm sure the dry air here in Colorado is not good for my skin

But I do love that I don't have to deal with the mold and mildew that people in more humid parts of the country have to battle. Whenever I visit those areas, I marvel at how I hardly ever need lotion.

[Maraya1969]

61. My thought too And I used to run some apartments. You want to be fair to everyone

involved. Some cleaning is just part of the privilege of owning the property and making money off of it. But you don't have to be a sucker either.

[Shellback Squid]

4. if she paid her rent on time, charge her nothing, she'll feel it's petty and so would you

[Rorey]

7. She actually didn't.

She started getting a little later with the rent every month, and didn't pay June's until July. My lease stipulates late fees, but I didn't charge her for those.

I'm always going to clean everything anyway, but this was pretty bad. I mean, she apparently put no effort into it at all. I thought I might get sick at one point. (Not really. I have a very strong stomach. )

[brush]

11. No. Leases specify that the place is returned "broom clean"...

and in the same condition as went rented, excusing normal wear and tear or course. A badly encrusted oven is not normal wear and tear.

Tenants have more than a responsibility to pay rent on time.

[Rorey]

24. I've only had one tenant, ever, who left with the place immaculate

It was awesome!

[brush]

30. I've had many tenants. A grossly encrusted oven cleaning charge...

comes out of the security deposit, as per the lease.

If you run a good background check on tenants you eliminate the bad apples.

[Rorey]

34. Well, in this case I was a bit desperate for a tenant

The previous tenant had died in the house and wasn't discovered for up to 10 days. It was a nightmare. Here in Colorado we're not required to disclose that type of thing, but I felt it was the right thing to do. I knew whoever rented the house would hear it from the neighbors eventually, and I decided that disclosing it would be best.

That death in the house is the reason I chose to sell this particular house. It's not death itself. I have dealt with deaths numerous times. It's natural and part of the life process. It was the fact that it was unattended. It took me and the biohazard team two months to get it ready to try to rent again. I tried to get past it, but two years later I still get too much of a refresher course on the whole thing every time I go there.

[brush]

36. That's rough. I've never had that experience.

I understand your feelings.

[Rorey]

39. I hope you never do

I couldn't believe it. I was ready to sell everything.

She was my favorite tenant too. She had a wonderful outlook on life. If it weren't for the fact that it was a business relationship, I could have easily been good friends with her.

When I was working on the house I'd often just have to sit on the floor and choke back tears about what she must have gone through on the last day. She had told her friends via FB that she was feeling very bad and was thinking about going to the hospital. I always thought it was pretty awful that nobody had gone to check on her after she said that.

[Rorey]

37. I just want to add, I wouldn't really call her a "bad apple"

She moved out on Tuesday morning, and it'll be ready to sell on Monday morning. And that's with my slow ass doing most of the work. I'm almost done painting the entire house, but it was just as a refresher. The paint wasn't bad at all. No big holes in the walls. She didn't cook meth or run a grow house.

I just think that some people really don't know how to properly clean, or they just don't care about cleanliness all that much. Years ago I rented the house to a very nice, neat-looking guy who had moved here from out of state to teach. He always looked like he stepped out of a magazine. Then the now-ex-husband had to go repair something and when he got home he told me I needed to have a talk with the guy about cleaning. I told the now-ex that that's what his security deposit is for. Still, I was stunned at how dirty the house was. The worst part was the marijuana resin specks on the floor. It took me *forever* to crawl around on my hands and knees with a razor blade gently scraping each one off.

He did not get any of his deposit back.

[Hoyt]

5. If the place is otherwise relatively clean, I'd charge a small amount or just

let it go.

Then, again, I’d probably lose money as a landlord.

[Rorey]

8. I'm a terrible businessperson

All of my rents are under market price because the rental and housing market have exploded around here. I just don't feel good about raising the rent on long time tenants.

[Hoyt]

10. I get it.

[Captain Zero]

38. That's when America was great. No rent increases if you paid it on time every month.

That was true around here in the 70's, early 80's. Sure not true now.

[Rorey]

12. Oh, and the oven wasn't the only issue

She dropped something in the kitchen and broke a tile. The grout was atrocious. The refrigerator wasn't extremely bad, but it also wasn't extremely good. It was brand new when she moved in, and she bent two of those bar things that hold things in the door. Oh and the bathtub and surrounding area is stained with hair die.

I don't really want to let it go. I gave her almost two months notice, so she had ample time to do some cleaning.

[brush]

32. Take photos of the poor condition in case she takes it to court.

Deduct for cleaning from security deposit as per the lease terms. That's what it's for. Explain your reasons and include photos in the envelop you send the check for the remainder of her security deposit.

How much is up to you...not too high, but don't low ball yourself. It's a business. 50 bucks is good. You had to scrub and clean. You don't work for nothing.

[Rorey]

40. I did do that. Video and photos.

At the end, when she was pleading to get to stay, she complained that I wasn't answering her phone calls. I told her that we were communicating via texting for documentation. I find the best tactic is to let their initial call go to voice mail, or encourage them to text. That way there's no dispute about what was said.

[brush]

41. Good move. You know what you're doing.

[Backseat Driver]

9. No offense, but what's your market like right now?

Folks in my city have bidding wars and could care less if the range is dirty or the fridge big and full featured; they buy investment property, translation: small, 2-3 bd and a single bath w/wo garages, and family homes sight unseen by photos and even without inspections - So remove it entirely; no shame, and I'd bet you won't loose a dime on a cash bid. Be grateful she left with just the extra week so you won't miss the "low-inventory" buyers!

It was your rental that you now want to sell, so the cost of a few cans of Easy Off and a few hours scrubbing should do it. Be kind!

[Rorey]

15. The market here is insane

I'm stunned by some of the sale prices.

I've been having a hard time adjusting my mindset with this house. I've always readied things for a renter, not for a buyer.

My realtor came by at my request a few days ago. I asked her if I should put in a new stove, and she said just to clean it.

This was the first rental house my now-ex-husband and I bought and renovated. I used to just love the house and told everyone that when I lost everything I'd move into it. Every tenant has liked or even loved it, so hopefully I can get a good price.

[haele]

55. Chances are, unless it's a really high end oven, a new owner will replace it.

Just clean it is typically the best advice. If they're going to buy or rent the house, a cracked kitchen tile and worn oven are not going to be deal breakers.

If it's going to remain investment property, the new owner will probably spend $600 on a floor sample/remainder oven to replace it anyway.

I commiserate, even though I've been a renter; I've rented many a place where it was pretty obvious cheap "lipstick was put on the pig" to get someone in after the previous renter left.

And once I started collecting a family, I got so I would expect to lose most my security deposit when we moved - the trials of life with an angry teenaged stepdaughter...

Haele

[Rorey]

57. Angry teenagers

I know what you're talking about. I had a couple of those. (They did grow up into awesome adults! )

When we bought this house we put in new appliances, but just the basic stuff. Nothing fancy or expensive. I'm amazed that the range lasted ten years. I did replace the refrigerator, but only because the one I originally put in wasn't really big enough. I always considered that little house to only really be big enough for one person, so I didn't really see a need for a large refrigerator, but tenants thought differently.

The house I'm selling is a solid little house, and it's described on the realty site as "super cute". I did have the one tile that was broken replaced. The floors really are in excellent condition. Overall, the whole house is in great condition, and I think whoever gets it will be happy. Every tenant has been complimentary about it.

It got put on the market this morning, and there are two showings today, and one tomorrow......so far. I'm so excited! I can't wait to hear feedback.

About the tenant's deposit, I ultimately decided to just deduct for the unpaid rent, and partial payment for the tile replacement because I overpaid the guy who replaced. I hope she's satisfied with that. In my statement accounting for the deductions I did include a note that I waived the cleaning fee for the range, refrigerator, and underneath the appliances. Realistically, I was going to clean everything anyway because I always do. Even if it looks clean, I always do it again, just to be sure. Now I'm working on the yard, but I'm only going to do that in the cooler hours in the early mornings.

Editing to add: I suggested to my realtor that maybe I should just put in a new range, but I would wait until closing. If some of the people in that neighborhood saw a delivery truck take something into an unoccupied house, they'd likely decide they deserved the appliances, and they'd be gone before the sun came up.

[roody]

13. $50 per hour plus costs.

Gas and supplies.

[Bluethroughu]

14. Bartenders helper and water make easy work of cleaning

A range top.

I would say $50.00 if it was really bad, like had to clean sides because the egg cooked down it and captured years of bugs, but if it was just in need of a spring clean, I'd blow it off.

Some people either don't know oven maintenance, or are intimidated by it. Gas or electric. I was, when I was younger.

I kept the gas grill lid closed ONCE when I went to light it, I
burned off my eyebrows, lashes and front hair. Almost blew up my first house. Threw the food out and went out to eat. Never used the brand new grill again.

Tried to cook my first turkey that year, the hot grease dumped out into the oven, but it must have been more water than grease because it was frozen when I put it in the oven, we did not eat it because it didn't smell good at all.

Cooked my first ham in the oven for the holidays, that same year...had an asthma attack had to go to hospital and came home to the house full of smoke and dust in the oven.

At this point, I threw out the oven and sold the house. My husband and I ate out for about five years, then I learned how to cook, clean, and operate an oven.

[Rorey]

18. I hate to laugh at your missteps

But that's pretty funny.

I was thinking $50 too, because it's the worst one I've had to do. I just didn't want to charge too much, but I feel that not charging anything isn't really right either.

[Bluethroughu]

21. $50.00 bucks is fair.

We crack up at our stupidity, but at the time it was a bummer, bordering on tramatic.

[Rorey]

26. We didn't used to have search engines for everything back in the day

It was a lot harder to figure out how to do things right back in the day.

[DanieRains]

16. Itemize The Things You Had To Clean

Put on amounts for a professional.

Remember you need to send an itemized list of deductions from Deposit in a certain amount of time or they can get all their deposit back in WA.

Every state different.

If she wanted Deposit back she would have cleaned everything.

What's fair is fair.

[Rorey]

19. I could justifiably keep it all

I'm going to return part of it. I told her I'd take her share of the last month's rent out of her deposit, so that's already being deducted. I also have to deduct for the broken tile, but I'm not going to deduct as much as I paid my handyman to replace it. I tend to overpay him because he always gets my stuff done quickly. And because I suck as a businesswoman.

[Baked Potato]

22. I'm with the $50 per hour.

I cleaned a probably never cleaned oven and top with a mixture of Dawn and baking soda.

I was skeptical, but it was the easiest stove cleaning I ever did. There’s mixture measurements online.

[Rorey]

27. My son just told me that he did it with Dawn and lemon juice

I'm sure it would have been better on my lungs than that dollar store toxic stuff that I used. But it worked.

[Baked Potato]

29. Great! Good old Dawn detergent! Nt

[Rorey]

31. It works on so many things

I've even used it on bathtubs.

That was another thing I spent quite a bit of time on.....the bathtub. It's way better than it was, but not great yet.

My plan is to have the house ready for photos on Monday, and then I'll keep going over there daily to refine things. I feel really weird and paranoid leaving it sit empty. I hope it sells very quickly.

[Baked Potato]

33. Good luck to you! Nt

[Mr.Bill]

35. Honestly, what do you think the likeleyhood is of them

taking you to court? In my state if you want to charge what a professional would charge, you better have a receipt from one. My wife took a landlord to court and the judge knocked his labor down to minimum wage. There were a lot of other circumstances that turned the judge against him though, so not exactly like your story.

[Rorey]

44. I think in her case the likelihood is very minimal

I'm going to ponder it another day or two.

Originally I was thinking $100 for all of the cleaning costs. Besides the range, the fridge wasn't clean, the cupboards weren't wiped out, the tub wasn't clean, and, as always, none of the appliances were cleaned under. And I don't know what she did to that brand new garbage disposal, but it just reeked. I had to reach my hand in and scrub it out, and I guess I better get some garbage disposal cleaner just to be sure. The yard was also her responsibility, and she hadn't mowed it in a couple of weeks.

But, as usual, as I moved along in the cleanout process I have softened. When I'm cleaning I get a lot of thinking in. It's therapeutic for me to see something go from kind of gross to clean and tidy.

She moved out on Tuesday, and I have it stated in my lease that I'll return any deposit within 30 days. Colorado law allows 60, but I think that's unreasonable. If a tenant is nice, I generally try to return their deposit as quickly as I can figure it out. If they're a jerk I take right up to that 30 day mark. This one is not a bad person, so it's my intention to give her what she has coming on Tuesday. I've got a feeling that by then I'll probably just deduct for the unpaid rent from August and the week in September, and for the broken tile. That isn't a freebie. It's not something I can do by myself anymore. I won't deduct what I actually paid my handyman, but I think $40 is reasonable.

[Mr.Bill]

50. I think $40 is quite reasonable. n/t

[PortTack]

42. $100 is the going rate...seriously!

[Rorey]

45. I honestly think that isn't unreasonable

I was gagging through part of the process.

But as I said in post #44, I'm probably going to have myself talked out of deducting anything for cleaning. It's good to hear the perspectives from everyone here.

Sometimes I think I might overthink things.

[OnDoutside]

43. Personally I would move on. It sounds like you are going to do very well

when you go to sell the house. Vent your feelings at how disappointed you are with the state of the range, and give them an opportunity to make some amends. However, reality is what the realtor said, just give it a clean.

A friend of mine had a tenant who stopped paying rent on an apartment in Spain, and the eviction process there takes a year or more. When she eventually got a court order, and an eviction date set, she discovered on entry the apartment was completely emptied.... everything including light fittings. I can see how the dirty range is so irritating but it really could be a lot worse.

My brother had a number of condos rented out in Florida, but has gotten out of it, he had lots of hassle from people skipping payments.

[Rorey]

46. We bought a house like that to renovate

We bought a house that had been gutted. It was repossessed from the previous owner, and they even ripped out wiring. I really didn't want to buy it because it's a modular, and they don't hold value. I also didn't want it because it's a four bedroom house, and that's just too big to deal with between tenants. But my ex-husband went against my advice. We made it beautiful, and it rented very quickly. It quickly started looking pretty trashy again, but I don't care because my ex got it in the divorce.

I just want to add, when my realtor saw the range in my house, it was after I had already made two attempts to get the oven clean. It was that bad.

[Elessar Zappa]

47. $50 bucks, I'd say.

[Rorey]

48. That's sort of where I settled last night

This morning, when I first got up, I was down to $40. By Tuesday I'll probably have it down to $0.

I'm not a good business woman, I guess. I just hate being a landlady. I have a hard time sticking to business. Honestly, I've lost sleep over having to end the lease on this tenant. I had to keep telling myself that it was something that I had to do. I need to use some of the profits to make improvements to my own house, which I consider an investment.

Honestly, I'm completely satisfied with my house for myself. But I'm not getting younger. My neighborhood is perfect for me, but we're almost all retired, and I have to be realistic about how the neighborhood is going to evolve in the not too distant future. I don't want to be that grumpy old lady who complains about people not keeping up their property. My hope is that I'll be able to make a transition out of here at the right time. I want to enjoy it as long as I can, but I accept that everything changes with time.

[LizBeth]

49. If everything was pretty good, I would let it go. if I had to bring someone in to clean, I would

charge that. If it is just a range no more than 50. But probably nothing.

[MissB]

51. I too would say $50

And if I were renting out a house, I would supply the tenant with a Go Clean Co booklet and a bin of the cleaning items she uses in the booklet.

Folks just don’t know how to clean.

[Phentex]

52. My kids were always charged for the stove...

and it was worth it to them not to clean it and lose some of the deposit. I think it was $50 or $100.

Laaaaaazy!

[radicalleft]

53. Cost of doing business...

Eat it...

[Niagara]

54. I'm guessing about $50 for the security deposit.

If you ever need to clean a oven again, including your own, here's a useful video.

[Rorey]

56. Thank you for posting that

Looks like a good option for somebody who doesn't want to use toxic chemicals.

I did use a toxic chemical on the oven at that house. Probably took time off my life. The oven looks great, but there are hidden places on the stove top that still need work. The house is now officially on the market, with the realtor's sign in the front yard, so any work I do from now until it's sold will have to be something I can walk away from within about 10 minutes. I'm supposedly going to get a text whenever there's a showing, so I won't have long to get out of there.

As for my own oven, it's very clean. Like new. I hardly ever use my oven, and I don't eat meat, so there's not much opportunity for splatter.

One thing I noted from the video was that she said that if your racks are dishwasher safe you can put them in the dishwasher. I have a standard size range and a standard size dishwasher. There's no way the racks are going to fit.

But I'm always up for helpful tips. Thank you.

[Niagara]

58. You're welcome.

I like to clean with natural ingredients as much as possible.




I believe the easiest way to clean oven racks is to bring them outside, spray them with oven cleaner, place them in a trash bag and close it up. Let it set for a few hours, take the racks out, spray them with a garden hose and throw away the trash bag. At least the toxic fumes from the oven cleaner isn't inside the house.


I didn't want you inhaling all those toxic cleaning fumes, but unfortunately I didn't get to your OP in time.

[Rorey]

59. I think I ruined my lungs a lot of years ago

Between cleaning chemicals, furniture stripping chemicals, and a husband who smoked, I suspect a good deal of damage was already done.

I haven't used oven cleaner in a long time, but the oven in this rental was very bad. I left the racks in the oven and sprayed down everything quickly with dollar store oven cleaner. I covered my mouth tightly. It probably took me less than a minute because I don't think I even breathed while I was doing it. Then I rushed out the door and worked outside for about an hour. When I went back in it didn't smell. I didn't even wait two hours before wiping it down. I sprayed off the racks in the bathtub, and used a brush to help out. They came out great!

The worst part to clean was the outside of the range because it's difficult to get product to stick. I tried rubbing some baking soda on and then spraying with vinegar and Dawn. It worked pretty well, but it's not perfect. If I feel like it I'll keep working at it, a little every day. My concentration right now is on weeds. They've been horrible this year. Worst I've ever seen. The tenants were supposed to take care of the yard, but really all they did was mow. I really don't like using weed killer because I consider it to also be bug and bird killer, and possibly other creatures too. So I'm cutting off what I can't pull, and then I'll use my weed burner, which may or may not be legal, to finish them off.

[Ms. Toad]

60. Check your state's landlord-tenant laws

In many states what you can deduct from the security deposit is very limited - and deducting beyond that can often cost you 2 or 3 times what was wrongfullly withheld. (In Ohio it is 2x). Many landlords are unfamiliar with LL-Tenant law and violate it all the time - especially with security deposits.

In most states you cannot charge for normal wear and tear (or putting things back in a pristine condition). Dependng on how long she was living there, this may well fall within normal wear and tear.

Better safe than sorry.

[Rorey]

62. I've studied our laws inside and out

There was only one time in the last ten years when we thought we needed an attorney. When I actually had to tell HIM what to do, I knew we were wasting our money. The only good he did was sending a letter on his letterhead which intimidated the tenants. In that case we realized we had the tenants from hell within 24 hours of giving them the keys. They thought they couldn't be removed. I had them out in less than a month. I'm sure they realized they were trying to screw over the wrong person very quickly.

In the case of this tenant, I sent her check to her today - one week after she moved out. I decided that I just wasn't going to stress over it. I deducted the rent she hadn't paid for August and one week in September, along with $50 for the cost of replacing a ceramic tile that she broke. I let the cleaning part go. My heart tends to soften as I get things accomplished. I do have compassion for her. She said my rental was the nicest place she had ever lived. I'm definitely not a slumlord. I can sort of understand how some landlords can slip into that, but I promised myself a long time ago I wasn't going to allow a few bad apple tenants to make me a bitter slumlord.

I do appreciate everyone's input. If I ever get a new tenant in any of my remaining rentals, I'm going to include a list of potential charges for various cleaning tasks. That way I won't have to worry about how much to charge, and maybe it will incentivize them to clean.

Honestly, though, if real estate prices stay high, I'll probably just sell if/when my remaining tenants leave. I have to see how I make out after paying capital gains. I hate being a landlord.

[Skittles]

63. huh

I guess I care more about the gal being forced to move than a dirty oven.

[Rorey]

64. It's just business

I had to make a decision that was best for my mental and financial state.

I'm afraid I'm not on board with your apparent way of thinking. She got plenty of notice that I was selling the house. She signed a contract before she moved in that stated what was expected on her end. Just because she didn't want to move doesn't mean it was okay to leave the house filthy.

I hate being a landlord, but that doesn't mean that I'm a bad landlord. I respond quickly when I'm notified of a problem. I'm very respectful. I've been told repeatedly by my tenants that I'm a great landlord. I don't think that my expectations are unreasonable, and they are, after all, all laid out in the lease.