I'm refinishing my dining room set. ***Edit: pictures added***

[LuckyCharms]

Last edited Fri Sep 24, 2021, 03:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Solid oak, no veneer. Two half-circle table top pieces, with an extension leaf in the middle. 8-sided pedestal base with detail and curves. 4 legs that bolt on to the pedestal. 2 chairs with arms, 2 chairs without arms.

I used to have another extension leaf and 2 more chairs, but I lost them in a flood about 10 years ago.

I've been stripping and sanding for weeks. I got the 3 table top pieces, the pedestal, and one chair sanded. Down to the bare wood, they look gorgeous.

My intent was to use Gel stain over the bare wood, followed by a clear, oil based finish.

I've refinished about 30 pieces in my life, but I've never used gel stain. The reason I'm using gel stain on this is because I'd be stripping and sanding these pieces for a year because of the detail in the pedestal and the chair spindles. Since it is too labor intensive to get every last bit of old finish off (especially in the grooves and convex curves, even after using sanding mops attached to a drill), gel stain is a better choice since it is very rich in pigment, and will cover up anything that I could not strip or sand off completely.

I was working on the one chair that I did manage to finish in my driveway...sanding and stripping. I had a plastic tarp down on the driveway and I rolled my work bench over the tarp. I spilled some mineral spirits on the tarp and slipped on the mineral spirits. It was the hardest fall I've ever taken. I laid there in the driveway dazed for a few minutes and took inventory, because I couldn't believe I didn't break any bones. That incident scared me into not trying to do that shit anymore, so I had the remaining chairs stripped and sanded by a professional.

I applied the gel stain to the table top over a slip coat of mineral spirits. To my surprise, it looked like total dog shit. Really, really bad. I did some research, and figured out that the furniture was contaminated with silicone from varied cleaning products over the years. You can't see that stuff because it is in the pores of the wood, and you can't strip or sand it out.

So I sanded off that gel stain, and applied 3 coats of no-wax shellac to seal everything up.

I tried again with the gel stain over the shellac. After one coat, it looked ok, but not great. I put the second coat of gel stain on this morning and holy shit, it's one of the most beautiful things I have ever seen. I'm using Java Gel, and the stuff is absolutely beautiful after the second coat. I'm putting it on with a foam brush, then instead of wiping it off like you would with a normal stain, I'm using a dry brush technique to remove the excess stain. One brush to remove the stain, and then another brush to feather it out. Both brushes are slightly dampened with mineral spirits.

I'm typing this novel because I'm so damn excited about how I think it is going to turn out. I'm very relieved, because I thought I got myself into something that there was not a fix for, and I was assuming that I'd have to resort to painting a beautifully grained oak table.

The end.

[intrepidity]

1. Not without pics you don't

Whatever happened to the "this thread is useless without pics"? Cuz that applies here.

[LuckyCharms]

2. Give me a few minutes and I'll post some progress pics.

[underpants]

8. (Looks at watch)

[Piasladic]

3. 100% agree -nt

[csziggy]

4. The only time I have used gel stain was on fiberglass doors

That were textured to resemble oak. The painters were supposed to do it but just painted it on and did not wipe to accentuate the grain. Plus, it turned out much more orange that I wanted. So I got a darker, browner gel stain and wiped it on. Then I put two coats of marine grade spar varnish over the top to protect the finish.

The doors look fabulous and unless you look closely or touch them, look like real wood.

Then we have an antique corner cabinet that had some scratches. Since the rest of the original finish is good, we didn't want to refinish it to get rid of those scratches. I took gel stain and rubbed into the scratches with a rag. They pretty much disappeared. If you know where they were and look close, you can find them but considering this is a hundred piece of furniture, scratches are to be expected.

I like the way gel stain handles - no drips and easy to apply to restricted areas. I'd use it again.

I'm curious how much it cost to have the pieces stripped and sanded? I have a maple table that was originally stained red (it was the style in the late 1940s, early 50' when my parents bought it) and want to have it stripped and bleached. I've done research and bleaching seems to be the only way to get the red stain gone. Then I'd love to either clear coat it (or stain it since the maple has very light and very dark areas). I also have a few chairs that need to be refinished but I'm getting to the age I don't want to do the heavy lifting necessary to deal with it.

[LuckyCharms]

12. Around $600-$700 total for

3 chairs, stripped and sanded.

[csziggy]

20. Thanks! I'll have to look for somewhere locally

Or now that it is finally below 90 here, maybe I could do it myself, though I doubt it. The stripping is bad enough, trying to sand everything would be pretty much impossible for me.

[LuckyCharms]

28. Sometimes it is better to have a pro strip and sand, even though it is costly.

1) It's a real pain in the ass to do, and very time consuming.

2) You end up spending a ton of money if you do it yourself anyway. Stripper, mineral spirits, power sanders, detail sanders, sanding mops, stripping brushes, etc.

My local guy got sick and closed his shop temporarily, so I had to drive the remaining chairs that I didn't sand 100 miles away to get them done.

He did an OK job, but I'm still going to have to touch them up a bit.

[csziggy]

30. Yes, I've known two guys that do refinishing, maybe would strip and sand

Problem is, one's retired and only does what intrigues him. The other guy is my age and may have retired since I last used his services.. Gotta check.

[niyad]

5. First of all, glad you were not seriously hurt. Second, thanks for the valuable

information, for future reference. Third. . .before, during, and after pics!!!

[dweller]

6. The Keno twins

wish to have a word with you …



✌🏻

[LuckyCharms]

13. LOL. The piece was built locally and it's only about

30 years old.

[dweller]

15. In that case

Good job 👍


✌🏻

[CrispyQ]

7. Hope you post before & after pics.

I considered taking up furniture refinishing as a hobby after I retired. I bought a few tools & a small table off Craig's List that need some love. One afternoon of sanding & I decided it wasn't for me. But I love seeing what others have done!

[LuckyCharms]

9. ***PICTURES***

Original Finish



Original chair finish


Original chair finish


Original chairs


Sanded chair


Original pedestal and legs


Sanded pedestal


Sanded table top end


Sanded to raw wood vs original finish


Ruined gel stain due to silicone


Ruined gel stain due to silicone


First coat of gel stain after sealing with shellac


Final coat of gel stain


Final coat of gel stain

[KT2000]

10. What a thorough job!

I like the darker color and your prep work is outstanding.

[LuckyCharms]

11. Thanks a lot! n/t

[Yorkie Mom]

14. That's really beautiful!

Congrats on your labor of love. I'm considering doing my table as well, but the top is not solid oak. It's a veneer.

[LuckyCharms]

16. Gel stain would work...

It is made to go over finished surfaces. Clean it really well with a 50/50 mixture of denatured alcohol and water.

Just scuff sand it with 220 grit to give the veneer some "tooth" (something for the stain to grab onto). Use the dry brush technique to remove excess stain. No slip coat needed on finished surfaces.

There are a lot of videos on General Finishes web site.

Be careful not to sand through the veneer, like I have done in the past!

[csziggy]

22. See my post above about using gel stain on fiberglass doors

Gel stain will work over just about any surface. When it comes time to re-coat the exterior door, I'll probably use gel stain again - or more likely pay someone else to do it - to refresh the finish. There are YouTube videos about doing doors and other projects.

The key is, as Lucky Charms says, clean it well. Then depending on the finish you want, paint or wipe on. Putting a clear coat over the top is very recommended, especially for something that will take a lot of wear like a table.

[dmr]

29. The final is absolutely beautiful.

That is a true labor of love.

Much, much respect for you, and your accomplishment.

Your buttons will pop when Thanksgiving dinner is served. I'll bring the pumpkin pie.

[Piasladic]

31. This will be requied viewing for my hubby

It looks gorgeous.

[intrepidity]

17. Beautiful. You must have the patience of a saint.

I've had tables and chairs like that, and not in a million years would I undertake that challenge.

My favorite part is you figuring out the silicone interference!

Well done.

[LuckyCharms]

18. Thank you, but I had help...

I had to talk to someone at General Finishes and send them pictures. They figured out it was silicone contamination.

[intrepidity]

19. Even so

A consult is a consult is a consult. No different than Google, YouTube, or Wikipedia, really, right?

But *you're* the guy with the gorgeous end product, who didn't stop when the first attempt failed.

[Donkees]

32. Golden Oak finishes often used pore-fillers for a higher gloss effect. These pore-fillers interfere

with and resist future staining unless it's the original golden shade. That's what it looks like to me, anyway.

[a kennedy]

21. Holy cow......what a job!!!!! But will be so worth it.

Hang in there and good luck.

[LuckyCharms]

27. Thank you!

I keep saying that this is my last big project, but you know how that goes!

[3catwoman3]

23. Outstanding!

We just had hardwood floors put in upstairs, in a shade similar to yours. I love them, but now th teak and oak furniture looks weird. I have some mission style end tables that I would love to stain darker, but was rather daunted by the idea of all the sanding. Sounds like Gel Stain might be an option. I still like the style, but not the color, and replacing all of them would be big bucks.

[LuckyCharms]

24. Thank you! Here's some tips that I learned on the way:

1) There are a lot of videos on you tube of people putting gel stain over existing finishes. Some methods are done correctly, but some are not.

2) Start with generalfinishes.com. They are a well established company that makes gel stain as well as many other finishes. Watch their videos first in order to learn how to work with gel stain in accordance to how their gel stains were chemically formulated. In other words, their videos show you the RIGHT way to work with it.

3) If you are used to staining things with a normal penetrating wood stain, remember that gel stain is a different animal, and you will need to teach yourself how to use it. Gel stain is not simply a wipe on/wipe off process like your regular Minwax stain.

4) Gel stain can be applied either over raw wood (new or stripped/sanded) or finished surfaces. The process is different for each.

5) If you are applying over new wood that has not been contaminated over the years by silicone from cleaning products, you first apply a "slip coat" of mineral spirits to the new wood. This helps the gel stain glide on better. If you are working with a piece of furniture that you have stripped and sanded completely, it may look like you are now working with raw wood, but it is most likely contaminated with silicone that has soaked deep into the wood pores. When you go to put gel stain over this, the contamination will become apparent. Therefore, what you want to do is to seal the wood up with 3 coats of UNWAXED shellac, sanding between each coat, and even sanding after the final coat to help the gel stain adhere better. By putting the shellac on, what you have essentially done is converted to a "finished surface" (instead of raw wood) that you are applying the gel stain to. Therefore, you follow the procedures for gel stain over a finished surface.

6) Applying gel stain over a finished surface. CLEAN the surface completely using a 50/50/mixture of de-natured alcohol and water. then lightly sand the surface with something like a 220 grit sanding sponge. This is important: Your goal here is NOT to sand the old finish off. Your goal is just to lightly sand to give the old surface some microscopic scratches, or "tooth". This gives the gel stain something to grab onto. Apply a lot of gel stain. Go overboard a bit. Instead of wiping off the excess, use what is called a "dry brush" technique. This technique is explained in a few of the general finishes videos. Use one brush to remove the excess, and one brush to feather out the stain. The first coat will have a lot of brush marks. Don't worry, the second coat will cover them. you can apply the gel stain with a foam brush just to get everything covered. Then use 2 natural bristle brushes for the dry brushing process. Always go with the grain during the dry brushing.

7) Let the first coat dry longer than is recommended. They say it is a 24 hour dry time at 70 degrees with 50% humidity. I had those conditions almost exactly, but I waited 72 hours before applying the second coat.

8) No more than 2 coats of gel stain, or else you might as well be using paint.

9) Personally, I would let the piece CURE a full 30 days before applying a clear top coat.

10) If you are sanding a raw wood piece, you do not want it smooth as glass. Sand it 120 grit, then 150, then stop. You need some tooth in the wood for the stain to grab, and if you go to 220 on raw wood, it's too smooth, and your stain will just slide around. You can, however, use 220 on a previously finished or a newly shellacked piece, because this is a finished surface.

11) Gel stain has polyurethane in it, so it's going to look like it does not need a clear coat on top of it. However, you do indeed need a clear topcoat for durability. If you have a dark color stain, you can use an oil based clear coat (any oil based clear coat will "amber" or yellow). If you have a lighter colored stain, you may want to use a water based clear coat. However, if you use water based over an oil based gel stain, you have to wait at least 72 hours before applying the clear coat. However, I'm waiting 30 days before applying any clear coat, to ensure the gel is good and hardened.

Good luck!

[3catwoman3]

25. I have no experience at this whatever.

We have a neighbor who is a very accomplished craftsman. I may just see if I can pay him to do it -

[LuckyCharms]

26. That's an option!

I also have some mission tables and other pieces that I am going to gel stain.

If you know someone who has experience using it, they can do it easily.

You might find, however, that some craftspeople are very old school, and either refuse to use gel stain, or simply haven't used it. Make sure he knows how to use it, or he'll try to stain it like he is using a regular penetrating stain because that may be what he has used all his life.

[3catwoman3]

33. He is a pilot by profession, and, IIRC, self-taught with his DIY skills. Everything...

...we've seen of his is really well done.

I spent my whole career as a pediatric nurse practitioner, and am very patient with people, but not so much with things. I don't sew, or knit, or crochet, or do needlepoint, or scrap booking or anything that might even remotely be consider a craft.