Gotta complain about season 2 of Picard (spoilers)

[Orrex]

Ok, I guess I can handle that everyone in the 25th century now talks exactly like Americans from 2022. It's annoying, and it's inexcusably lazy writing, but it's a firmly established convention of modern commercialized science fiction, so I guess I'm stuck with it.

I can handle Seven driving a car, because she's been a Borg and as such has had years of access to billions of consciousnesses. Surely some of them knew how to drive. It would have been nice to have her make some onscreen comment about it, but whatevs.

I can also handle that young Guinan is played by someone else, since it's been established that she ages by choice.

But there is absolutely no in-universe reason for her not to recognize Picard, because--canonically--they met more than a century earlier in San Francisco. Even if, for some reason, she forgot him, there's no reason why he should have forgotten their first meeting.

I know, I know. Someone will now oh-so-cleverly cite the classic Shatner moment on SNL when he berated his fans for their fandom, but this isn't me complaining to Patrick Stewart about it--it's me discussing the actual show in the context of the actual show.


It's either a case of some truly careless writing or a deliberate disregard of what has come before. If it's the former, then that's disappointing proof that they're carelessly chasing a profit. If the latter, then it's even more disappointing because it means that they're purposely shitting on their source material for the sake of chasing a profit.

[PoliticAverse]

1. Per your request...

[Orrex]

2. Yeah, it was inevitable

Figured I'd get out in front of it rather that pretending that it wasn't going to happen.

If I run into Patrick Stewart on the street, I promise I won't grill him about lapses in continuity.

[gainesvillenole]

3. Change in Timeline

Actually explained by the showrunner…. The future where the Enterprise crew traveled back to the 1800s where they met Guinan didn’t happen because Q changed it (the reason they’re traveling back to fix it…. So now they’ve not met yet. Picard remembered it because his memories of the real timeline aren’t altered.

[Orrex]

4. Is that going to be explained onscreen?

Because, if it isn't, then the show-runner is talking out their ass after the fact.

In that episode, Guinan stated that if Picard didn't help her in the cave where she was trapped in the 19th century, then they'd never meet in the 24th, clearly meaning that she'd die in the cave. Well, he didn't save her, and she didn't die.

It's nice that the show-runner had some kind of explanation, but it still seems a poor fit. Further, it's been clearly established that Guinan can perceive other timelines, so at the very least she should have had some flash of recognition when Picard said his name.


Beyond ambiguously vomiting in her bar, I mean.

[PoliticAverse]

5. Just another Q Anon conspiracy theory. n/t

[Downtown Hound]

6. Since the whole timeline has been altered

It stands to reason that they never met in the past, because that future never happened.

[Orrex]

7. Right, but see my follow-up comment above

By 19th century Guinan's own assertion, if Picard hadn't saved her in that cave, then they never would have met in the 24th century, with the clear implication that she'd die in the cave.

If that 24th century never happened, then she's been dead more than a century by the time of Picard season 2.

[Downtown Hound]

8. Guinan was only injured in the cave

Because she and Samuel Clemens, a.k.a.Mark Twain, followed Data there. If the future that created Data and sent him back in time never happened, she would never have been hurt.

[Orrex]

9. Whoa

I bow to your superior geek-memory!

Well, I'm a fairly solid Trek fan, and obviously even I couldn't recall that particular sequence, so it seems that it would have been worthwhile to include an onscreen line to rekindle viewers' memories.

I mean, Picard himself would certainly have recalled their 19th century meeting, so that's the "in" right there.

[sky_masterson]

10. I'm getting an Edith Keeler must die Vibe from it.

So far this season is better than the last, but gawd damn if it isn't predictable.
The entire series is really 3 episodes back filled with crap that nobody cares about.
My take is that the Borg Queen in the first Episode is actually trying to help them.
She stuns people with out killing them, She says "Look up" before the boom.
I believe that she is somehow upgrading the fleet and this is all a misunderstanding.
In every Q involved episode, Q always seems to help/teach/open eyes.
He tries to help Picard see what he isn't seeing if that makes sense.
I will watch every season, but I really don't find the supporting cast all that interesting,
I am actually rooting for Romulan Legolas (LOTR) to die.
The show has few saving graces ,7 of 9 is still interesting as well as the Data girl robot, but everybody else are red shirts to me.

[Orrex]

13. Nice summation

I feel the same. They can't simply throw Picard back into action with his old crew, because that would be obvious fan service, but I don't give a hoot about any of the new characters.

They've made Agnes into the viewer's surrogate, the Federation "outsider" to whom we're supposed to relate, but she more than anyone else is guilty of injecting 21st century style into the 25th century characters. It's a mistake driven entirely by commercial concerns, rather than for the plot or for universe building.


Also, isn't it just a little weird that we haven't heard a peep about Dr. Crusher? She and Picard were dear friends (and much more) when we last saw them, and now she's gone without so much as a peep? I don't need her to star in an episode, but Picard explicitly consulted his most trusted doctor in season one--who was never mentioned before or since. And now that he's an android, you'd think that Bev would have something to say about it. Even Geordi could chime in, being so familiar with positronics. Heck, it's not like he's busy hosting Jeopardy.

If this show were about anyone other than Picard, no one would watch past the first scene of episode one.

[sky_masterson]

14. I think the problem with all the Modern Star trek shows

is that they stopped being Episodic. They used to have an adventure a week which kept it more interesting, now they all have big story arcs that last the whole season. It's like they forgot what made Star Trek great in the first place. They quit Exploring,seeking out new life and new civilizations. They are boringly going where previous shows went before.
They forgot how to give fans what they want.

[Orrex]

15. I agree

Some shows have achieved a good balance, but they're long-format programs with a big story arc punctuated by weekly episodes unrelated to the macro-narrative. Supernatural did this pretty well IMO.

The X-Files had the series-long "alien conspiracy" arc, of course, but it was clear that the writers had no real idea of what that story was, and many of the episodes key to that story were among those that have aged most poorly. The Walking Dead is another series that has wholly failed in maintaining a long arc; that entire show can be boiled down to about 15 minutes of truly engaging footage.

In a short-run series like Picard, they have to fill 10 hours (or whatever) with a story that *might* be strong enough for half of that length. As a result we get a lot of filler and delays and digressions, and the net effect is to create something that's mostly boring with a few relative bright spots.

Even the trend toward season-long story arcs is driven by commercial concerns, because it artificially creates a sense of FOMO, urging the viewer to tune in for each episode, and the quality of the story suffers badly as a result.

[sky_masterson]

17. Agents Of Shield did pretty good story arcs.

They usually had an arc wrap up in 1/2 a season and started another. Kept the show more interesting.

[Orrex]

18. That's a better way to do it

It allows smaller stories to be developed more strongly, rather than having a weak story limp its way through an interminable season.

I didn't care for AoS too much. The writing always seemed too cutesy and clever, and beyond that I wasn't at all interested in the resurrected Phil story.

Netflix's Daredevil and Punisher both did a great job of the season-long arc, with Jessica Jones & Luke Cage also doing pretty well, but not at the same level of quality. Iron Fist was a disaster from initial casting to the closing credits of the final episode.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

11. Is the season over?

I want to resubscribe when the season's over so I can watch it all in a weekend

[Orrex]

12. Wait a few weeks

We streamed ep4 last night, and I suppose that there will be 10 like last season.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

16. Ok, thanks! n/t