My Dutch office had a very 21st century Friday evening fling for all employees. I was feeling old

[DFW]

I had to be in the Netherlands office for work Friday, so I stayed over. my wife was up north with her mom, anyway, so I said sure, I'd stay. I thought it was a dinner. I can handle dinner.

So, I drove with one of the guys to some big complex outside of Utrecht, and the whole office, some 20 people, met there. It was some super high-tech car racing complex with 50 or sixty high-tech chairs with screens and headphones and an instrument board that probably rivaled that of the Space Shuttle. Detailed instructions and rules were given in Dutch. I understood the Dutch, but I didn't understand what to do with all these buttons and pedals and levers. Everyone except me had been here before. Some of them seemed as exhausted as if they had REALLY done a few laps at a race course. These things were in a darkened hall, lit up like something from the 2050s. I think the people who designed the bridge of the original set of Star Trek would have rejected the setting as too futuristic. At least no one had to be pulled out of a burning wreck.

I sat the races out. Everyone else "raced." The two courses were in Austria and some other place (like I know where races courses are!). After the first two races, we got some not-fast, not-slow dinner served (I chose chicken satay), and then everyone else went for another intense 20 minute race. After paying everybody's bill, the boss ducked out early after the second race, which is not at all like him. He let me know why later on: his wife's mom had just died, and he had to get home. Someone drove me back to a hotel near the Utrecht train station, and I got an early train back to Germany Saturday morning.

If this is the future of company outings, I think I am getting too old for this. Whatever happened to the days of fried clams and a whale watch?

[Ferrets are Cool]

1. I would be right in there having fun.

66 here and even if I made a fool of myself, I would still be trying to have fun.

[DFW]

2. If I had thought it fun, so would I

I didn't understand all the high tech stuff, and would thus have had no fun. But, hey, if you're in Utrecht the next time, feel free to join in! Fair warning: the instructions are given ONLY in Dutch.

[Sedona]

3. My real estate team favors paint ball in the woods of North Georgia

I just turned 60 and although I enjoy the energy of my young teammates and they enjoy my "mom vibe" , I pass on the paint ball. I could break a hip




I go and take photos of the activities and cheer on my team.

[panader0]

5. There's a place in the woods near here where that goes on. The trees and boulders are covered in

paint and the little plastic shells of the paint balls are all over the ground. Ugh!

[Sedona]

7. The commercial course we use is on private property

Arkenstone Paintball & Airsoft

https://georgiapaintball.com/

[Peregrine Took]

24. Hmmm....even worse. No one to regulate thier actions? n/t

[Peregrine Took]

22. I would contact that company and complain about their not cleaning up. n/t

[getagrip_already]

31. I'm pretty sure everything is bio degradeable....

My son was into it for a while. The paint is like a soap with coloring and the shells are gelatin like. Everything disappeared over time.

Not sure that is current tech though.

[panader0]

4. My company meetings (bricklayers and laborers) were at the Sorry Gulch Saloon after work

over a few pitchers of beer. My partner and I would do payroll at the table and hand out the checks, yay Friday!
I like trains. I went through Europe as a child in the fifties in wonderful old trains with compartments and
leather seats. Once a Spanish soldier or policeman entertained me for hours making animals out of tinfoil
from my chocolate bar.
Never had fried clams but they sound good. I've seen lots of whales though.

[ret5hd]

6. More my speed:

[highplainsdem]

8. Was it something like what I found at the link below, DFW?

https://f1racingcentre.nl/en/

That turned up when I googled

Utrecht simulated car racing

[DFW]

10. That was it!

Driver's ed at the Indy 500 in five minutes!

[highplainsdem]

11. I'd've found it intimidating, too, on a first visit on a Friday evening after

a long week. A nice bar would appeal to me more then.

But trying that simulated racing some morning after first reviewing all the info I could find online might be fun...

[IbogaProject]

25. I just spent awhile figuring it out

I would've been able to try, but near 300 kmh would be dizzying on the turns. The only control I had to look up was DRS, which is a new rule-system to boost passing on straightaways. Drag reduction system that lowers rear wing boosting speed an extra 20kmh.
Only brakes and gas matter. The rest of the buttons are mostly camera view, rear mirror, radio to officials, pit engineers, and other racers. And a very important one for us matures (I'm 55), wind simulation on/off.
I don't like racing video games over 120mph, but this would have been worth a quick try as it's driving and my family a decent drivers with quick reflexes.
Bad on them not explaining things to you, it would have taken under 2 min total to adjust seat, pedals, staring and focus you on view and rear view.

[Yavin4]

9. When you're in the Netherlands or Germany...

do you get the feeling that you're in a higher form of human civilization? Higher than here in the US?

[DFW]

19. No, not at all

And I speak both languages.

Different sets of rules with a vastly different history. Set up differently, with both profiting from both being devastated by a recent (i.e. last century) war, plus a big helping hand from a rich, benevolent victor (i.e. the USA). They got to take the best of both, and with typical European reluctance to take any initiatives at all, had some success, although nowhere near the success they would have had, had they no re-instituted the "Beamten/ambetenaren" system of multiple times the necessary number of "civil" servants who are unfirable, and are often completely indifferent to people's plights. In Germany, members of Congress (the Bundestag) are allowed to sit on the boards of large corporations (!!!!!!)--WHILE SERVING IN PARLIAMENT!

Some thirty-odd years ago, a guy in Düsseldorf who was fed up with the unresponsive, uncaring Beamten system, opened up a well-publicized office as a center for complaints about "Beamtenwillkür," or "uncaring civil servants." The state forced him to sut down, justifying their move by saying that there was already a system in place for people to register complaints if they had any. The fact that these complaints were hardly ever acted upon was something they conveniently left out, when saying why they were forcing the guy to close.

My wife is a social worker, now retired. Her job was to help try to place long-term unemployed, retrain them and place them back into the workforce. Half the time she spent trying to weed out the bad eggs (i.e. those who wanted to collect welfare, but not work at all) and end-run the government (where a case worker couldn't bothered to even look inside the dossier of someone who had no food or a roof over his head). Her monthly income now consists of a combination of her pension plus some disability pay for having had cancer twice. It adds up to about $1250 a month, with the cost of living here being somewhat higher than in the USA. Real generous, huh?

Plus there is the two class health insurance system in Germany. First class (privat) means you get an appointment when you need one, pay up front, and try to get it back from your insurance. Second class means your insurance covers whatever (except dentistry), but you may have to wait months to get an appointment to see a doctor. Years ago, when I felt something might be wrong with my heart, I called a cardiologist, and said I needed to see someone. They said they had an appointment free in two months. I said I was from the USA and would pay up front. They suddenly had an appointment that same afternoon. I was on the operating table in less than 72 hours. If I had been a normal German, I would have been dead within a week.

There are the several hundred thousand people here with no health insurance at all, but statistically, they are a small percentage. Don't believe the "everything-is-free-there" crowd. They are selling a myth. Financing, and how certain things are paid for, are done by vastly different systems, that is for sure. But just like in the USA, doctors don't work for free, teachers don't work for free, builders don't build hospitals or schools for free, and roads are not built for free.

Like my experiences in small New England towns, there are small close-knit communities that function very well. It doesn't matter if it's Wellfleet, Massachusetts or Ratingen, Westfalen. where people are educated and have a sense of social belonging, it works, and works well. Where people are less educated, and feel there is no sense of community, but rather, "every man for himself," things just don't go as well.

A German folk singer once did a musical version of "The Pied Piper," called "Der Rattenfänger," or The Rat Catcher in German. When he had led the rats into the Weser (the river by Hammeln), and got cheated out of his reward, the children of Hammeln tried to help him. There was a fabulous verse at this part of the story:

"Es geschah was heute noch immer geschieht, wo Ruhe mehr gilt als Recht
Denn wo die Herrschenden Ruhe wollen, geht's den Beherrschten schlecht"

It happened like it still happens today, where quiet is worth more than justice
Since where the rulers want quiet, the ruled fare badly

The Germans are still thankful to us that they can have hit songs with lyrics like these. Eighty years ago, they could have gotten you the death penalty here. That was never the case under Nixon, Bush II or even Trump.

To sum all that up, it's not a higher civilization, it's a different civilization, and that goes for every nation in Europe, big and small. Would Germany ever LET part of the country get as run down as Jackson, Mississippi? Probably not. Would the USA try to ask someone who had worked as long and as hard as my wife to survive on $1250 a month at age 70? Probably not. Was it a crime punishable by death to mock the president of the USA within the last century? No way.

If you move someplace new, you learn the language and the ways, try to adapt, or you try to go elsewhere. If you stay put, you try to make the best of it.

[Yavin4]

30. Understood. Very well put, but...

I am not implying that either the Netherlands or Germany are paradises on earth. But, we don't see mass shootings of children in their classrooms or water being undrinkable. We've seen multiple examples of both in this nation. Additionally, your wife would be saddled with massive health care debt because of her illness.

I'm thinking of retiring to Germany or some other EU nation. The USA is not a country for old people.

[DFW]

41. The firearms regulations here are very strict

Unfortunately, they are flagrantly violated by gangs from Lebanon, Morocco, and, worst of all, Eastern Europeans, who have no customs border to prevent them from just driving in from Romania, or Lithuania, or Croatia (and they do) and sell guns (of all types) to the highest bidder. At least they are illegal, so there is no such thing as "open carry."

There are instances of drinking water becoming contaminated here, but they are (so far, anyway) rare. My wife only escaped massive health care debt from her second cancer battle because I paid the $600 per month health insurance premium for her during the time between her ceasing work (at age 60) and the time her German version of Medicare kicked in at age 65. She was in the hospital for a month at age 64, and my bill would probably have come to around $500,000 if she hadn't gotten the insurance. In this respect, Germany is no different from the USA, except that medical costs here are lower for major treatments, such as her cancer treatments.

Just as a heads-up/FYI, when I applied for permanent residence status here in Germany, I had two head starters: A German spouse and a proven ability to speak their language fluently. In addition, I needed to furnish my own health insurance, financial stability, a steady job with a US employer, and a paid place of residence. The latter was taken care of since I had bought the house for my wife 20 years prior. I asked about German health insurance, but since I had never paid into their system, I had to either use my useless US insurance, or get German "privat," which, being almost age 60, was quoted at €2500 per MONTH, or €30,000 per year. "Privat" means you get preferential treatment, because you are expected to pay all medical expenses up front yourself, submit the bills to your insurance company, and hope they cover you. Like US insurance companies, if they can find a way not to, they will. As it was, the Germans didn't know that Blue Cross denied everything submitted to them, so they accepted that as proof of health insurance. They are the ultimate bureaucrats, and they love paperwork. If there is nothing behind the documents you hand them, well, that is the next office's problem, not theirs.

Also, since I never worked for a German employer, I never paid into their pension plan, so I get no social security/retirement pay. Not only that, but they want half of my Roth IRA, on which I ALREADY paid the full U.S. tax due when I converted. Under US law, that means that whatever I take out of the Roth IRA is mine free and clear, having paid all taxes due up front at the time of conversion. But the Double Taxation Treaty between Germany and the USA was written before the Roth IRA was invented, and is therefore not covered under the treaty. So, even the treaty was meant to avoid double taxation, the Germans are quite willing to overlook that, and want to take 50% of what is left. Since I paid 39.6% when I made the conversion, and the Germans want another 50%, that leaves me with enough to buy pasta and tomato sauce for the rest of my life if I stay here. I hired an accountant to work this out with the German government in 2011, when I made my official move here. The case is STILL unresolved. I have to make a sworn declaration each year that I have not taken a cent out of my IRA, or else give them half of it.

There is more, but just make sure you thoroughly research what you are getting into if you plan on moving here. It CAN be done, of course. There are about nine million Americans living outside the USA, so it's not like it can't be done. But there is more to it than packing your suitcase and consulting a real estate agent, and they do NOT make it easy for you. Germans, in particular, do Americans no favors when they try to move here. The ironic reason for that (in my experience, anyway), is that they think that any American, guns not withstanding, who would voluntarily give up life in the USA for life in Germany must be out of their mind. When returning from the USA one time, the border guard at the Düsseldorf airport looked at my passport and residence card, shook her head, and asked, "you're American, and you WANT to live here?" As in, "are you completely out of your mind?" I told her that my wife was German, and wanted to continue living in Germany, and you always give your wife what she wants, don't you? She liked my answer, smiled and waved me through.

[Kali]

42. "Would the USA try

to ask someone who had worked as long and as hard as my wife to survive on $1250 a month at age 70?"


yes, all the fucking time.

[DFW]

43. Is that all social security pays out in the USA?

I have never received a payment, so I ask out of ignorance. My brother convinced me to apply for my payments this past summer, so I did, but I haven't received a cent yet, so I don't know what the payout is. A payment of $1250 in a city like New York probably doesn't get you past the first week of the month.

[Kali]

46. I think max is $3,345, average $1,657.

and that doesn't include what they pull back out for medicare.

of course, you are "supposed" to have other income but a hell of a lot of people have worked HARD all their lives for little money and less SS, no pensions.

[Yavin4]

48. Depends on what your income was when you worked.

The less you made as a worker. The less you get back in SS.

[DFW]

50. So it's based on what you paid in?

Last edited Mon Sep 5, 2022, 04:30 AM - Edit history (1)

On edit--my brother said that if you are still working when you start getting the SS distributions, there are taxes and deductions to the point where, after all is taken out, I might be able to treat my wife to a salad once a week at the local salad bar--unless the Germans want half, too, in which case that would probably make my distributions subject to the 156% tax bracket. In other words, get your paperwork for nothing, and your tax for free. No wonder I never bothered all this time.

[littlemissmartypants]

12. I love this! Meets my need for noise and danger. But without any real danger. ❤️

[3Hotdogs]

13. Ex worked for a Fortune 100 company. Comes the annual picnic.

Free beer flowed. Guys got into argument. One goes into port-potty.

Other guy goes and tips the unit over, with the other guy still in it.


Next year's picnic..... Each department was given a budget and told to have fun.

[calimary]

29. Oy...

I couldn’t help notice the “Guys got into an argument” part. Especially the “Guys” part. Instantly thought - “note: it was ‘Guys’, NOT ‘Gals’.”

[3Hotdogs]

34. Not so fast... I taught in an urban high school. Girl fights were rougher and bloodier than boy

fights. They would tear into each other. Boys... two or three punches and they would "run out of gas," curse at teach other and then walk away or friends would get between.

Girls would go on and on. Two fights I remember... Hair was literally pulled out of scalp. Half a breast was bitten off.

I guess that grown women are aware of a rage they carry and they stop themselves before things escalate.

[calimary]

35. Fair enough. My perspective is, admittedly, limited here.

Last edited Sun Sep 4, 2022, 02:54 PM - Edit history (3)

Spent most of my life in all-girl Catholic schools. No boys. So I never saw what boy-arguments were. HOWEVER, I never saw any girl-arguments like the ones you describe, either.

Unless, of course, you include roller derby! I never watched that much. But the video clips are quite enough, thank you.

And once in college, which was my first “co-ed” experience, never saw ANY such fights at all. Maybe it’s just that I found myself among peaceniks and/or stoners and/or college radio nerds most of the time.

[3Hotdogs]

38. My school was in an urban setting.

In college, the goal is a degree. Grievances will be put aside in consideration of larger goals.

I recall one of my students, complaining about a "sentence" of 16 weeks of anger therapy for her offense of fighting with a girl in a neighboring town.

[calimary]

39. And in my case, it could easily be that there was a lot of anger

but it was all suppressed. Or, maybe everybody was either too busy studying to get the hell outta high school and into a good college where the boys were; or they were pretty detached and didn’t care about their grades because they already had boyfriends outside school who occupied all their spare time.

[getagrip_already]

32. I have a no-drinking rule at company events....

Seen too many people say and do stooped stuff their careers regretted later.

Not to mention I just don't like a lot of the higher ups that tend to show up and show off.

[calimary]

40. Avoidance strategy is always the better way.

Certainly less combative - and less bloody.

[SergeStorms]

14. Today is the F1 Heineken Dutch Grand Prix....

as a matter of fact it's on TV at this very moment.

That may have something to do with why that particular activity was chosen. 😉

[BradBo]

15. Europe is into F1 racing like we are into the NFL.

[Siwsan]

17. I would love to visit the Netherlands

I have Dutch ancestry on my father's maternal side of the family. They've been here FAR longer than the Welsh side. I'm talking pre-Revolutionary War.

Anyway, I'd still love to see if I would experience the same 'Atavistic DNA' feeling of 'at home comfort' as I've always felt when I'm in Wales.

[DFW]

26. Though most people there speak some English

Since it is required in school, and they leave all TV programs and movies in the original languages, the life of the country is still conducted in their language (or, at least, the lcoal version of it--there are several). To REALLY get a taste of the place, learn some of the language first. It makes SUCH a difference. Otherwise, it's like asking someone to visit the USA, and get a feeling for the place if all you speak and understand is Dutch.

[Higherarky]

18. If the dinner was not-fast and not-slow,

was it half-fast?


🍽️🍗

[DFW]

20. A Dutch mystery left to solved by cleverer minds than mine n/t

[Phentex]

36. Hee Hee!

That was funny!

[jaxexpat]

21. I definitely get the "not really fun at all" part.

It's close to deliberate rudeness when people are so self-absorbed they're unable to appreciate the awkwardness of inviting someone to a participation event without providing a reasonable opportunity for that guest to participate. Getting older than one's peers is civilization's worst insult to vitality.

But then again it may not have been that big of a deal to you.

[DFW]

45. Oh, they expected me to participate.

They had even paid for me to race with them. I was the one who opted out. It was no big deal at all that I didn't race. The accountant didn't race either. She is a Peruvian who married a Dutch guy many years ago, and is now divorced. She had gotten Dutch citizenship while she was married, and so stayed on. Her Dutch is flawless, although she and I always converse in Spanish.

[malthaussen]

23. Orgies aren't what they used to be. n/t

[DFW]

27. Ah, if only I were qualified to answer that............. n/t

[Tadpole Raisin]

28. lol, I'll go for bumper cars at the Fair although I don't think my joints could take that anymore.

Favorite ride was The Zipper. It was hard to walk straight afterwards but boy that was fun.

WAS.

[Lars39]

49. My brother threw up on that

while he was in the top on the side. He managed to hit every single car below.

[Mr. Ected]

33. So how was the chicken satay?

It's my go-to dish in the Netherlands!

From what I've heard, Utrecht is one of the most well-designed cities in the world. More usable bike paths than anywhere else, just a lovely place to raise a family.

If I could turn back time...

[DFW]

44. Utrecht will probably be a great city if they ever finish it.

I don't know of a town that has been under construction for longer than Utrecht, and I experienced downtown Dallas, Boston's Big Dig, and the re-unification of Berlin. I'm there usually once a week, although my office is outside Utrecht in the tiny (but picture postcard) town of IJsselstein, so I don't see much of Utrecht beyond the train station when I'm there.

As for raising a family, I'm sure there are lots of places where that can be done well. Even right here in beautiful suburban Düsseldorf.

And the satay was just a TINY bit too sweet but still quite tasty!

[Mr. Ected]

47. I lived in Elmpt (on the Dutch/German border) for 2 years

While working in Duesseldorf. My oldest went to 1st grade there (even carried his homemade schultuete on the first day of classes) so I can personally attest to the worthiness of the area.

We miss it dearly.

[DFW]

51. Our children were both born here

Grew up in Ratingen, later went to school in Düsseldorf before leaving for the USA. One came back, one did not. It’s all good. We encouraged them from early on to find their own way, and we’d support them whatever they did, and wherever in the world they decided to do it. They still consider themselves Ratingerinnen, and Düsseldorf to be their home area. Our house is 16 minutes by car from the Düsseldorf airport.

[Mr. Ected]

52. One of my sons was born in the States, the other in Delft, NL

We brought them back to America and raised them here, but neither ever developed an affinity for the US. Two months ago they emptied our nest and relocated to The Hague. They are thriving there and I couldn't be happier.

[DFW]

53. If they are happy, that is the main thing.

Our elder one finished college in New York City and declared, "this is home for me, I never want to leave." So far she hasn't. She has a job there, found a husband there, now has a son there as well, and they made a timely purchase of a generously apportioned apartment during the Corona-depressed market of a couple of years ago. If they had tried to buy it now, they could never have afforded it.

Our younger one originally wanted to stay near her sister. Washington, New York, Boston, she didn't care. But she graduated in 2010, when the job market had nowhere recovered from the Cheney-Bush recession. Even Harvard grads were told to wait on tables for a year before their prospective employers had a place for them. Grads from "second tier" law schools like hers had no chance in the US market at all in 2010. So, before she had even gotten her diploma in her hand, she flew to a legal job fair in Frankfurt to see if there was something there. The German arm of one the British "Magic Circle" of international law firms said they had an opening, but only for someone who was bilingual (English-German), had an EU work permit, but an American bar exam. She said, "here I am." They offered her a starting salary of €85,000 a year plus a starting bonus, and she never looked back. She, along with her whole team, got head-hunted by an American firm's Frankfurt office for a LOT more money, and she now makes over fifteen times her original salary. These are numbers beyond my grasp--even my calculator can barely keep up. She is now settled with her partner and their two daughters in a postcard town in the hills outside Frankfurt. She still harbors ideas of moving to New York eventually, but with the money she has made (she's not even 40!), she can buy herself a house or an apartment there if she wants. Her daughters are US citizens as well as Germans, and her partner is allowed to spend up to 90 days out of every 180 in the USA anyway as a German citizen, maybe more as the parent of US citizens who are minors--I don't know if there are special rules for that. They are not married, so a residence visa is not automatic. But until such time as they might want to make the move, it's not a pressing issue. He is now a senior partner in the same firm, so if their firm should want to move the two of them to the NY headquarters, I would assume the firm has the pull to get him a green card whenever they want it for him.

The important thing is that they are happy where they are, and with who they are. Bi-cultural kids like ours have options open to them that not all have. Bi-racial kids, like my brother's sons, don't always get a free ride, but his boys were smart enough to fit in, and now have lives of their own as well. One is married with a family in the Bay Area, and the other is currently in Kyiv doing Don't-ask-because-I-can't-tell-you stuff. Their parents, unlike my wife and I, did not raise them bilingually, something for which they never forgave their mother completely. The one in Kyiv is near-fluent in, of all things, Arabic. I know, I know, really well matched to his current station, right? But his station before that was in northern Nigeria, right in the middle of the territory under siege by the Islamicist Boko Haram group, and I'm sure that, even if he never learned to speak Hausa, his Arabic was more useful there. Either that, or he DID learn Hausa, and never told us.

To some degree, I guess many parents never get (or really want) a complete feel for what their children do, unless they enter a family business. I know one time, maybe 40 years ago, my wife and I were with my parents here in Düsseldorf, and I got a call from a colleague in Milano. The call lasted maybe 20 minutes, and when we got off, my dad asked in wonder, "WHEN did you learn to speak Italian so fluently?" The true answer was that I didn't know when. I just picked it up as I went along. I already spoke French, Spanish and Catalan, so sooner or later I just absorbed it from the Italian guys I worked with along the way.

[Phentex]

37. Yeah, no...

May be fun for some but I'd rather mingle and talk.

[mnhtnbb]

54. One of the most famous race courses

is the Nurburgring in Germany. My oldest son drives autocross here in NC. When we had a family trip in 2014 to visit my youngest son while he was in Berlin on a Fulbright Scholarship to study German theater, the oldest finished his trip by renting a BMW and driving from Berlin to Nurburg so he could drive the Nurburgring himself. It was one of the highlights of his trip, which had included visiting London, Paris, Venice, and Florence before we all met in Berlin.

Race fans around the world who can't get to Germany themselves to drive the track in person, can drive it on simulations.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/history-of-the-nurburgring/