Stereo receiver/turntable question

[AngryOldDem]

Didn’t see a specific forum for this. Need advice from any stereophiles out there.

After some time I finally have the room to hook up a stereo system that’s been in my garage after several moves and time in storage. It is a turntable, receiver, and CD player, everything dating back to the mid to late ‘80s. The receiver, though, died after a few weeks (1986 vintage, RIP). I replaced it. The CD player works great, but whenever I play an LP, I have to turn the volume WAY up on the receiver. This is not the case with the tuner, or CD player. The connection is secure. The needle is “fairly” new, given that it’s not been used in years.

Is this a sign that the turntable is on its way out? Or is it degradation of the LPs, some of which are 50+ years old? I just find it curious, and I’ve not been able to find any answer online. Don’t mind turning it up, but I have to remember to knock the volume back to normal levels once I’m done.

I thought about getting a new turntable, but if I don’t have to….

Thanks!

[mahatmakanejeeves]

1. You need a phono preamp stage.

The output from the cartridge is on the order of only a few millivolts. It is much less than the output from a tape recorder or tuner.

Is there a phono {edited: not "phone"} input on the back of the receiver? If not, that's the issue.

How much of your earlier, broken receiver died? If it's just the amplifier stage, you can use the broken receiver's phono input stage, and take the tape output from that and feed into an auxiliary input on your new, working receiver. You'll be using the phone preamp stage of the old receiver, assuming that you can get away with that.

[Ferrets are Cool]

5. This

[Docreed2003]

7. 👆👆👆👆👆

This!!

[RoverSuswade]

2. Turntables need a high impedance input.

Low impedance input jacks just will not handle a turntable.

[sl8]

4. Does the receiver have multiple phono inputs (MM, MC)?

Or a gain control (just covering all the bases)?

What is the input jack that you're using labeled?

[Casady1]

6. Mahtma is right. .

Schitt Audio has one and they have a great reputation.

https://www.schiit.com/products/mani-2

[The Unmitigated Gall]

8. Turntable HAS to go into "phono" jack in receiver.

Which has the necessary pre-amp for the tiny current from the needle cartridge.

[AngryOldDem]

9. Thanks, all.

Rather than replying individually….

There are phono jacks on the receiver. The issue with the old receiver was that it would just cut out with no warning, with a click and then a loud humming noise, like it was getting overheated. If I let it sit for awhile, it would work again, but then stop. The turntable does have an impedance jack, with a wire that connects to Signal Grounding on the receiver. (I had a hard time getting that to connect securely. It seems to be pretty tight now, though.)

I went back over the manual in case I missed something, and the remote menu has a PH.OFFSET function where you can adjust the volume level for MM type cartridge output. ( to Sl8.) That can be adjusted up to +6db. The default setting is 0 db, which is where it was at. I changed it to 6db, and the volume is now a little better — it’s just about half the level that it had to be at before.

This is more tolerable, for now, but a phono preamp may be in my future. Thanks again for giving me things to check and stuff to think about.

[usonian]

10. All of the above are correct.

Please make sure that the turntable goes to a "phono" input on the amp. That amplifies and equalizes (important) the cartridge signal. A ground wire helps keep hum down.

Doubtful that the TT is the problem, but you should probably replace the cartridge, not the TT ( after checking those little connectors) if it is.

LP's last "forever". They just warp or get scratched. Vinyl.

Good luck.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

11. Any chance you have a Moving Coil (MC) cartridge, but the new amp's phono inputs support only

Moving Magnet (MM) carts?

Been awhile since I dealt with TT's but IIRC that mismatch is one to avoid.

MOST amps only support MM.

[AngryOldDem]

12. I don't know, TBH.

I need to look into that. The TT is now the oldest component — mid-1980s. I’m going to try to find product specs on this, if they still exist. It’s looking like whatever it is can’t be detached from the arm.

I’m about the world’s worst tech person, so if I’m misunderstanding, have patience, LOL.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

14. It's the cartridge that counts, not the turntable. What's the cartridge? Thanks. NT

[Hugh_Lebowski]

15. Did you buy the TT yourself and know the cartridge was never changed?

If so, what's the brand and model of the turntable? Was it expensive?

MC carts were high-end and didn't come 'stock' on many record players back in the day, or now.

To be honest with you though, there may be nothing 'wrong' here. Everything plugged into my receiver, CD's always had more output than my record player, and a well-made tape would too.

A good external phono-preamp can adjust for this though (depending on model, you want one with some flexibility on it's output gain). You'll end up plugging it into a 'aux' or some other non-phono input on your receiver.

[AngryOldDem]

16. I bought this back in the mid-1980s.

It’s a Technics model SL-BD10. Bought it at a wholesaler, as I recall. Definitely not high-end.

I know the stylus was replaced at least once. I didn’t handle that, but it looks like its snped into the cartridge. I don’t think the cartridge can be easily removed from the arm, so pretty sure that’s never been messed with.

I posted earlier that I changed the decibels to +6, and that seemed to improve the volume to some degree. Maybe there is nothing wrong…researching phono-preamps, and learning a lot in the process.

EDIT — Found the specs. Cartridge type: EPC-310MC moving coil stereo

The accompanying pic doesn’t look like mine, but the manufacture date of 1984-85 makes it close enough.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

17. Well, that's unusual for a consumer-level unit like that

So you still have the cartridge in it that looks like this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/334571662710

Assuming so then yeah ... get yourself a decent phono pre-amp with MC support, should make a big diff. esp. if the receiver doesn't have that support (which would not be the least bit unusual). That's almost surely 'the problem'.

That cart is worth a bundle actually. P-Mount MC carts from that era are pretty rare. BTW that's called a P-mount (edit, sorry, not p-style as I said before) tonearm. The cart and stylus can be replaced (it's a like a modular system), the piece you can NOT replace is one called the 'head shell', which one can replace on most non-P-mount tonearms.

[AngryOldDem]

18. Without dismantling it, I can't say from that pic angle.

I’d have to unscrew it from the sides and pull it out. The replacement is a Stanton, not Technics.

I’m probably going to go ahead and get a phono preamp at some point. For my needs, I don’t necessarily need a high-end one, so it won’t be that costly.

One thing I don’t remember doing, is assembling the turntable when I bought it. Neither here nor there to this discussion.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

19. IIRC with P-mount tonearm you can literally just grab the cart on each side and tug gently

and it slides right out. That's the idea, it's like 'modular'.

Edit: yeah you have to be able to see the top of the cart to see the logo and model number. But if you don't want to try that, is it the right color and shape, like the E-bay pic?

Good to nail down whether it's an MM or MC cart even if you are getting an outboard phono preamp.

Stanton is a big after-market maker of carts/stylii/head shells. Whatever you're reading could say 'this is the replacement' but it's not necessarily a Stanton MC cartridge even if factory spec on the turntable called for an MC, if that makes sense? The replacement Stanton is likely MM, for various reasons.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

20. My bad, P-mount has a single screw as well ...

It's worth checking to see if you have one of those tasty $350 (per Ebay) MC cartridges, in my book.

If for no other reason, you can save money buying a pre-amp withOUT MC support, that support is usually an upcharge and if you don't need it, why pay for it? May not be much $$$ (20-30 bucks probably), but ... for the cost of unscrewing a screw you can know whether you need that support (although I'd think you could just 'see' that Technics logo and model number without doing anything). P-mounts generally expose the top of the cartridge, so ...

Also if you ever wanted to sell the whole TT, having that expensive, stock Technics MC cart makes the whole thing worth a lot more

[mahatmakanejeeves]

13. Good point. Thanks. NT

[Prairie_Seagull]

21. One thing I would consider is

rather it is Direct drive (better) or belt drive. In my day Gurrard direct drives turntables were the s... .