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sl8

(13,933 posts)
Mon Nov 28, 2022, 09:14 AM Nov 2022

This brilliant illustration shows how much public space we've surrendered to cars

Last edited Mon Nov 28, 2022, 10:43 AM - Edit history (1)

From 2014.

https://www.vox.com/xpress/2014/11/18/7236471/cars-pedestrians-sidewalks-roads

This brilliant illustration shows how much public space we've surrendered to cars

By Joseph Stromberg Nov 18, 2014, 8:31am EST

Most roads in the US are built for cars, not for pedestrians. Whether we're happy or unhappy with this, most of us are aware of it.

But this brilliant illustration, made by Swedish artist Karl Jilg and commissioned by the Swedish Road Administration, shows just how extreme the situation truly is — even in an urban business district that's designed with pedestrians in mind:



(Karl Jilg/Swedish Road Administration)


[...]



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Farmer-Rick

(10,216 posts)
1. Public transportation use to be a goal
Mon Nov 28, 2022, 10:25 AM
Nov 2022

Not so much anymore. Some cities have decent public transportation but for the most part the US had really bad public transportation.

I wonder if we had flying cars if this would still be an issue? Where are our flying cars capitalism?

progree

(10,924 posts)
6. They are shredding my bus service in the Twin Cities area due to lack of drivers
Mon Nov 28, 2022, 12:06 PM
Nov 2022

cut after cut after cut after cut.

I've lost bus service because of a driver shortage (well, I can still walk 1.5 miles (30 minutes) to catch a bus that runs every 2 hours). People looking for childcare and elder care also heavily impacted.

The rest of the service has become unreliable as we have numerous same-day cancellations.

These measures are forcing people who managed without a car to have to get one.

Nationally, the labor force participation rate has been dwindling from a high point of about 67.3% in 2000 to 62.2% now. (It was 62.2% in January, so there hasn't been any progress in that all year).

Meanwhile the population of elderly (such as me) needing more and more service (me not yet but soon) grows.


Labor force participation rate: http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

Labor force in thousands: http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11000000



The labor force = employed + officially unemployed as per the BLS's monthly Household Survey

The officially unemployed are jobless people who have looked for work in the past 4 weeks (must be more than just looking at job listings). BTW, the officially unemployed is not a count of people claiming unemployment insurance, it has nothing to do with that (a common myth unfortunately).

How the Government Measures Unemployment http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm

=====================================

I don't see the situation getting any better. Oh, temporarily, if we have a recession, but not in the long run. Economists have been warning about this for at least 2 decades. Now it is starting to bite. Hard. Replacing the freely given labor of people driving their own cars with train and bus drivers won't be possible, unless we open the immigration spigot wider than its ever been.

Farmer-Rick

(10,216 posts)
9. My sister lives in the Twin City
Mon Nov 28, 2022, 01:21 PM
Nov 2022

I'm sorry to hear how they are underfunding public transportation. She can't drive and never got her license. That's why she liked the Twin City so much, good public transportation at least it was 30 years ago.

I bet if they offered bus drivers and other unskilled labor higher pay, they could easily fill those jobs. A lot of people use to pick up those kind of jobs just for some extra cash. But if the pay keeps dropping or Not keeping up with inflation, gas prices and clothing expenses, it's not worth it for those people to pick up those jobs anymore.

I was helping out at a nearby grocery store managed by a friend of mine. I was just a cashier and bagger, but I did it to help the friend until he could hire someone else. When the pay raise was pennies after 6 months, I told him he would have to get someone else. The standard pay and minor raise wasn't even covering my gas, food and uniform costs. He still hasn't filled the job and he's back to bagging and cashier again himself, as the manager.

I was willing to work and help him out but not as an expense to me. For me it was cheaper to not work there. And if you have child expenses on top of it, no wonderthe work force refuses to return.

progree

(10,924 posts)
11. Public transit was wonderful in the Twin Cities pre-pandemic
Mon Nov 28, 2022, 02:09 PM
Nov 2022

They keep raising the starting driver pay. Pre-pandemic it was $19.94/hour to start with a $1,000 hiring bonus (6/1/19 from archive.org). The benefits are what one would expect from a government job, i.e. excellent. They also don't require a commercial drivers license (CDL). They pay the starting wage while training a person to get their CDL, and then pay for the training needed to be a bus driver.

Now it is $26.16 to start with a $5,000 starting bonus.

So that's an increase of 31.2% in the starting pay in nearly 3 1/2 years.

Looking at the CPI: https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CUSR0000SA0

Its gone up 16.7% between June 2019 and October 2022.

So in inflation-adjusted terms, starting driver pay is up 12.4%
( 1.312/1.167 - 1 )*100%.

They apparently think this is extravagant. As I wrote in another post (MetroTransit's Facebook page) is that they will have to raise pay some more, maybe a lot more. It's still paid and treated as semi-skilled labor, even though it's a rather difficult and high-responsibility job manuvering a bus in and out of traffic constantly and dealing with some of the crap that goes on with collecting fares and drug use and people behaving like jerks.

This story is about what it's like to drive a city bus in Denver - is Minneapolis much better?

"In the past two years, Denver-area bus drivers had reported being assaulted by their passengers more than 145 times. Suna had been spit on, hit with a toolbox, threatened with a knife, pushed in the back while driving and chased into a restroom during her break. Her windshield had been shattered with rocks or glass bottles three times. "

-- That's just a small sample of it. Much more at: https://archive.ph/WUCsc

Anyway, something has got to give.

Aside from the pay issue, they certainly aren't underfunding transit -- the problem is that they are spending very imprudently. They are spending at least $4.6 billion on two light rail projects for about 28 miles total. I'd rather see that money at least maintaining what we've got and expanding plain-old-bus service. But politicians like cutting ribbons on gleaming new trains and bragging about their "accomplishments".

I'm getting a letter to the editor of the local newspaper (the Sun Post that covers 4 suburbs) published, it sounds like, in the December 8 issue, yeah! I've also written my state senator, and will be sending more letters.

I'm only 4.2 miles west of the core of downtown Minneapolis, but all along we've been treated like we're way out in the sticks. Well, its gotten a lot worse.

Why not. Here's my letter to the editor:

Subject: Metro Transit bus service cuts in the Quad Cities

In October, route 705 service was cut in half, including the complete elimination of the 705B branch that served Douglas Drive, and also served the Golden Valley Road and Medicine Lake Road segments between Winnetka Ave. and Douglas Drive.

As a consequence, I have to walk 1.5 miles (30 minutes) to use the remaining branch of the 705. That's a 1.5 mile walk to catch a bus that now runs only every 2 hours (formerly it ran hourly), and only on weekdays and early evenings.

Currently, the 705 now runs along most of Winnetka from south of I-394 all the way north to Modern Road (just south of I-94) and then on West Broadway to the Wal-Mart Supercenter at 8000 Lakeland Blvd.

Another route, the 755, provides limited commute-hours-only service to part of Douglas Drive and Winnetka Avenues -- only 2 hours in the morning before 7:30 AM, and 2 hours in the afternoon. Not enough time to shop unless one is willing to go in the morning and wait for the first afternoon bus around 3:30 PM to get back home.

If one takes the first afternoon bus and leaves on the last afternoon bus, one has a maximum of about one hour to shop or run an errand.

On December 3, route 755 is being cut from 9 round trips to 6 round trips. This is among many other system-wide cuts being made on December 3.

The problem is a shortage of bus drivers. Besides the schedule cuts, there have been numerous same-day cancellations of trips, seriously reducing the service's reliability. This is pushing people to get cars who have tried to avoid doing that, just the opposite of what we need to be doing to meet climate goals.

Marthe48

(17,042 posts)
2. Thoughts on modern city planning
Mon Nov 28, 2022, 10:39 AM
Nov 2022

There used to be town centers, and most people who needed goods or services could walk to their destination. People out of town had to either get into town or rely on deliveries or visit for services. Think of the milk truck, the doctor visits. After WWII, there was a huge push to expand the ownership of cars, sacrificing public transportation. We went from having no cars per family, to one car per family, then each member of the family having a car. Instead of protecting the environent by having a limited number of vehicles, having a limited number of mobile services, we reversed it.

As the price of private vehicles and fuel rises, we have seen a rise of paid transportation (Uber, Door Dash come to mind) but even so, cities are still developing and building further from their established town centers. In my town, the old Social Security building was conveniently located within walking distance of the town center. A new building was built almost a mile from the old town center. When you think of the age or health of those who use SS, a vehicle of some sort is required to go in person.

Our town has free public school buses. Most of the students over 16 have a car and drive to school. The high school has expanded the parking lots periodically over the years, using public fiunds. A few years ago, the school district considered adding a fee to ride the bus. I thought it was crazy. The buses are supported by public funds. My idea, which would never fly, was to charge a parking fee to student who didn't ride the bus. I don't think they added a riding fee, and I hope someone else pointed out that charging for transportation already paid for, and charging students who are either unable to afford a car, or want to spare the environment, is wrong.

Of course, we own private cars because car makers, insurance companies, and fuel companies make money from our ownership. Even the government makes money on private car ownership. We also see a drive for other items that were once supported by the public, but have become a status symbol for private owners. Swimming pools, hot tubs, and home theaters come to mind. Along with ownership of cars to allow us to be mobile, we also have the option to stay home and enjoy our toys. I think that might be a great example of having your cake and eating it too. Anyway, the planet can't sustain our present course and we need to go in a different direction.

nuxvomica

(12,449 posts)
3. Good post! And all this leads to social isolation too
Mon Nov 28, 2022, 11:07 AM
Nov 2022

I was surprised so many people rankled at the pandemic lockdowns because that was a level of social isolation people of means had long cultivated anyway with their once-public-now-private amenities.

rubbersole

(6,734 posts)
4. The young people definitely want to go in a different direction.
Mon Nov 28, 2022, 11:19 AM
Nov 2022

The latest election participation shows the country who we should be listening to and representing. Climate change is every bit as important as abortion access or fascism. Ignore it at your gerrymandered political future.

PatrickforB

(14,593 posts)
5. All this happened, at least in the US, back in the late fifties.
Mon Nov 28, 2022, 11:27 AM
Nov 2022

Eisenhower returned from commanding the European Theater in the Second World War, and saw that the US needed an interstate highway system for defense. In case of any invasions, such a system would allow the rapid transport of troops and armored vehicles.

Because Congress was reluctant, Ike went to the auto makers and got their 'buy-in' on the bases that an interstate system would allow them to sell more cars.

This caused the auto-centric growth that took us away from the old 'centers' and allowed cities to expand into suburbs and exurbs.

If you look at the Census Data Profiles, and choose the Economic Profile, you find that something good has happened. In 2018, the Census estimated that, nationwide, 76.3% of commuters drove alone, and another 9% carpooled, while 4.9% took public transit, and 5.3% worked at home.

In 2021, which is the latest data available, the Census estimates that 67.8% of commuters drive alone, while 7.8% carpooled, a REDUCTION of 9.7%. At the same time, public transportation took a 'hit', with 2018's 4.9% now down to 2.5%.

But the jewel? In 2021, Census estimates that the number of people working from home rose from 5.3% to 17.9%. This takes tons of carbon pollution out of the air.

Ah, but the cities are still made for cars, and most commuters still do drive alone. In my city, commute patterns were back at pre-pandemic levels in 2021. Alas, people seem to be driving every bit as much. As for me, I have the privilege of working from home 4 days per week, and we drive much less than we used to. My wife does not work.

lostnfound

(16,192 posts)
7. Yes! I was looking out at Houston from a skyscraper and realized the same.
Mon Nov 28, 2022, 12:18 PM
Nov 2022

Acres upon acres of center city land is devoted to highways, city streets, and parking. I do not think that the lost land value is considered adequately when evaluating mass transit options as an alternative to sprawling highways.

Page 7 estimates percentages by city, with 13% of land used for roads in Houston to a high of 30% in New York — but those are dated, and don’t include parking.
https://www.vtpi.org/land.pdf

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