I hate winter joggers

[cleveramerican]

you know the ones I am talking about
the street is already narrow from the snowbanks,
and they run 8' from the edge of that,
basically in the middle of the lane,
you cross the line to go around them
and they shoot you a dirty look or holler at you for being too close.


I try to be understanding but it happens so often...

They are a hazard to themselves and every driver nearby.
And they act completely unaware of the road hazard they are.

just sharing.

[In_The_Wind]

1. I hear ya!

People need to find safer places to jog in the winter.
I drive for a living. [img][/img] They don't make my job easy keepin' them off my bumper.

[Denninmi]

2. Yeah, those pesky pedestrians.

Worse yet, the idiots on bikes who ride on the pavement. They should be in the mud on the shoulder. How dare they inconvenience us, we might get to that next red light 20 seconds later.

I want to make up a shirt when I ride road that says on the back:

Go ahead and hit me. My heirs will enjoy living in your house.

No sympathy from me, sorry, drivers are in too much of a hurry to show common courtesy, let alone safety. And cyclists have the same legal rights and responsibilities.

[AngryOldDem]

4. Well, that is a two-way street, no pun intended.

Many times I have been behind the wheel and have seen cyclists weave in and out of traffic, paying no attention to traffic lights or anything else around them. They often ride on roads that are just not safe for bikes because they're too narrow, and cars almost have to go into oncoming traffic to get around them safely.

At night, I rarely see cyclists or bikes that are properly illuminated. The other night while driving home from work in the rain, I came up behind a guy dressed totally in black, on a dark bike, with one tiny, barely visible reflector on the back fender. Then, I got up to a very busy intersection and right before I got to the light, there was another guy on a recumbent bike (in the dark, in the rain, with no lights or other visibility markers) cutting against traffic to cross the street, not in the crosswalk).

Yes, cyclists do have the same legal rights and responsibilities, but I think that also includes following basic traffic laws and regulations such as proper illumination for dusk/dawn/night/bad weather conditions, just like what drivers have to follow.

I am **not** trying to start an argument about cyclists on the road, and will not engage in such. That horse has been beaten beyond recognition here. But common sense and common courtesy go a long way with **both** cyclists and runners, IMO, and I think I made that point with my previous post about runners.

[Denninmi]

8. Well, I certainly agree about the lighting. Technology makes it possible.

I have two automotive standard LED headlights up front, and about 10 ancillary red and clear strobes rear/side mounted.

And yes, I see the same idiots, no lights, no safety gear. And I call them idiots. Various manufacturers make all kinds of night safety gear, I have invested probably close to a grand for about six complete sets neck to toe for various weather conditions.

[AngryOldDem]

12. I totally GET the reasoning behind cycling.

Believe me, especially since now that I'm back to work and making an approximately 25-mile round trip everyday, and having to fill up my tank at least twice a week. (Not that I could bike to work anyway, but for those who can, cool.)

The city where I work (Indianapolis) is bragging that it wants to be "bike friendly" but it's trying to do that with streets and roads that just aren't meant to handle both drivers and bicyclists. Cutting out a small part of the curb lane for bikes is stupid and dangerous. I think for this to truly work it will take a major overhaul of infrastructure and a mutual agreement and understanding among both drivers and bicyclists about the rules of the road.

[csziggy]

16. I saw a cyclist almost killed because he was ignoring rules

We were in the left turn lane at a red light, a truck was in the middle lane going straight, no one was in the right turn only lane. The cyclist was on the sidewalk to the right of the right turn lane. The light changed to green for all three lanes going our way. The bicyclist shot out across the pedestrian crosswalk, in front of the three lanes whose light had just turn green.

I thought for sure the truck to our right was going to hit the idiot. My second worry was that we would hit him, since my husband had his view of the cyclist blocked by the truck. The cyclist was lucky - the truck started forward, then slammed on their brakes just in time to not hit the moron.

If there had been an accident, I am not sure who would have been at fault. Pedestrians have the right of way, especially in a crosswalk no matter how the lights read. But the cyclist does not have the same rights from my understanding of the traffic laws. And the way he waited until the light was against him was weird. It was almost as if he was deliberately trying to get some motorist in trouble.

[AngryOldDem]

17. This opinion ain't gonna be popular, but I'll say it.

Given the fact that more cyclists are on the road, and are being encouraged to be on the road, then by law they should be treated as de facto automobiles. They have to follow the same rules as cars, even down to licensing. (Licensing bikes isn't new. When I was a kid, mine was licensed every year.) And just like you can be pulled over for driving with one headlight, or no lights, the same should be true if you or your bike isn't properly visible. And violations of traffic laws should be ticketed offenses -- if I ran a red light, I'd be in trouble, but I see it constantly with cyclists.

And big cities should not actively encourage cyclists to use busy streets either, unless there are adequate and safe bike lanes -- no more of this piece of road just barely wider than a bike tire between the curb lane and the curb.

[csziggy]

18. From what I have read of Florida law

Cyclists are supposed to act like motorists - use the roadway, not the sidewalk, obey traffic lights, etc.

The road that the idiot cyclist was traveling down DOES have bike lanes on both sides. Not generous, only about four feet wide, but they are there. Problem with that cyclist is that he was traveling south on the northbound side, but on the sidewalk. He kind of made a loop on the corner of the sidewalk then as I said, as soon as the light changed, zipped out in front of the vehicles that had just had the light change for them to go.

That cyclist was EXTREMELY lucky that the truck driver to our right was paying attention!

I've also had the experience that another poster described - groups of bicyclists completely blocking the lane. In that case along the two places where you can legally pass, when the driver between the cyclists and me attempted to pass, they spread out to cover the entire roadway, deliberately blocking any passage by motor vehicles. When we got to an intersection the group of 20-30 cyclists split into three, proceeding each way, so there was no choice but to continue to follow some of them. I turned to follow in the direction that had the best passing zones, and again, they continued to deliberately block every attempt to pass them. They were lazing along, so following them was slow and frustrating. When I got to where I was going, I reported them to the sheriff's office. Some motorist is likely to get more frustrated than I did, go into a road rage and run the lot of those a$$holes over.

There are a lot of bicyclists that use our country roads for exercise. I make every effort to treat them with courtesy and pass them safely and legally. To have an entire group act in a way that pisses off motorists endangers bicyclists that also ride safely and legally.

[cleveramerican]

5. bicyclists are bad too

they get mad if you DON'T pass and just follow along at 15 mph until a safe spot to pass comes along
AND
They get mad if you DO quickly squirt around them and pass too close(a relative term)
Drivers trying to proceed and not get into a head-on collision are left with no good option

Most drivers come to the conclusion the bike riders will be pissed at you not matter what you do
Pleasing them is impossible

[RiffRandell]

6. I was behind a pack last Saturday that took up my entire lane.

I couldn't pass them for about a 1/4 of a mile and they refused to move over. I was patient considering I was left with no choice but following safely behind them in my car until I could pass them in a no passing zone when no cars were coming the other way.

Thay pissed me off as they rode as if they were the only ones on the road.

Question: If I passed them in a no passing zone, could I have been ticketed if I was pulled over by a cop as if I passed a car?

[AngryOldDem]

13. Probably.

Wouldn't that be a moving violation?

[trof]

21. Joggers create their own hazards.

And the OP is a perfect example.
Jogging down the middle of a thoroughfare with snowbanks on either side is asking for trouble.

[AngryOldDem]

3. Speaking as a runner...

I find that behavior totally selfish, not to mention unsafe.

This morning was the first time since before Christmas that I was able to get outside and do a decent run. We had about a foot of snow here, which made both the roads and sidewalks just too dangerous for any kind of walking for weeks (see below for an additional comment on that). If I can't run on a path or sidewalk, I'm on the treadmill. I do also have to run in dusk-dark now, so I also wear as much reflective gear as I can, and I also stay on the sidewalks (at some risk, given cracks, etc.) and ALWAYS give drivers the right of way.

I have known (and briefly run in groups with) people like you describe, and I don't like them either. Their fanaticism sometimes outweighs their common sense in both winter and summer. That's one of the reasons why I like to run alone.

THAT SAID...people who live in snowy areas...PLEASE do everyone a favor and shovel your sidewalks! Especially when your neighbors shovel theirs, and especially before the snow melts and refreezes, and becomes permafrost that won't truly go away until March. It's just the considerate thing to do in winter. Thank you.

[trof]

22. Bravo.

And thank you.

[mrmpa]

7. What I hate is................

runners and walkers at night, who wear dark clothing. They have no reflective stripes or anything that allows the driver to see them. I particularly hate when they have a dog with them, who also has no reflective wear.

I recently took my 82 year old mother for a ride, through residential areas to see the holiday lights. Speed limit was anywhere from 15-25 mph, which I kept to. However we saw at least 3 walker (2 with dogs) and one jogger with no reflective bands.

[AngryOldDem]

14. I know.

They piss me off, too, because you don't see them until you are actually on top of them. Worse still are those who run with traffic and not against it.

Street lighting in most residential areas sucks, too. I have taken to stopping for a good half-minute or so at signs in my neighborhood just to make sure that nobody is coming in either direction. Mynightmare is that, no matter how cautious I am, I still may hit somebody.

Sometimes I think that people like this, and bicyclists who don't properly illuminate themselves, should be stopped and ticketed (or warned) if a cop sees them.

I don't know if it's blissful ignorance or self-absorption at work here.

[Art_from_Ark]

23. As someone who does a lot of bicycling,

I agree that bicyclists should be properly illuminated at night.

And I have a similar nightmare about hitting a jogger/bicyclist/car that runs a stop sign, particularly at one intersection where I have had close encounters at night with bicyclists and joggers who had no lighting and just zipped through the intersection across my path (they had the stop sign), completely oblivious to the traffic situation around them

[whoisthatis]

9. I jog at the gym in winter.

Here in Nebraska the winter roads are hazardous enough, I don't like to add to the danger.

[pink-o]

10. I'm a runner. And I dislike them, but that's what treadmills are for.

Nothing beats the rush of running outside, but to keep our chops up, sometimes we gotta deal with the rubber. And if one REALLY can't stand it, then what the hell are people doing running on the street when there are schools with tracks or pedestrian and bike paths in every city? Ever heard of a park, People? That's the place in your town where cars are NOT allowed and those parks are usually a few miles big and have plenty of pretty trails for us to go pound out a few miles.

When I lived on the Coast in Half Moon Bay, I used to bike down the hwy to work and invariably encountered stupid runners competing for space with internal combustion engines. They don't know the rules of the road, and they have earbuds so they can't hear anything around them. Fools. Learn safety or run somewhere else.

[hlthe2b]

11. My views on this are complex... Of course I don't condone joggers who unnecessarily put themselves &

others at risk and that includes not running on the sidewalk when one is clear and available, not wearing reflective clothing at night, and not respecting stoplights, stop-signs and other "rules of the road." The same applies to cyclists who don't use bike lanes when available or ride on the sidewalk at high speeds putting pedestrians at risk, when a perfectly wide and vacant bike lane is available.

As for the scenario you describe, I also think joggers should pick a route that is safe for themselves and for drivers who might encounter them in snow/ice or use a treadmill if possible. That said, if the sidewalks are not shoveled and the ONLY place to walk AT ALL is in the street, this is an issue for pedestrians who have no choice but to walk. If neighborhood streets are this bad and the only place to walk is in the road, then drivers need to recognize that and slow the hell down themselves AND share the road with those who have no choice but to be in the street on foot. Severely inclement weather means the usual rules do not necessarily apply and that often means far more than mere speed limits. Honestly, this ought to be common sense, but it seems that rudeness and selfishness often applies instead.

[pipi_k]

15. Since bicyclists were mentioned in this thread...

Something I wanted to share...

There's a good sized city nearby that just had its third bicyclist death in less than a year. First one last summer, second one last fall, and the third one yesterday.

Roads were, and still are, clear down there, as well as the sidewalks.

I'm pretty sure the drivers of the cars in the first two were not charged. The third hasn't been charged with anything as of yet, and may not be.

Why does this happen? Bicyclists not paying attention? The one who died last summer was texting while riding her bike in downtown traffic.

I guess people are going to be selfish assholes no matter what, but I would be pissed as hell if someone caused me to injure or kill them by accident because s/he was not paying attention.

Pissed, and likely traumatized forever. Don't even know if I'd be able to drive again.

[Yavin4]

19. Cyclists in NYC Are Really Dangerous to Pedestrians

They come out of no where. They do not stop at intersections even when the light is against them and people are in the intersection. I was on the sidewalk and came to blind corner and a cyclist shot past me at full speed. If I had been there 10 seconds earlier, I would have been hit. If someone was pushing a baby carriage or walking their dog, they would have been hit.

[datasuspect]

20. I always say

"watch where the fuck you're going, you dumb motherfucker."

did that last week when some self-important fuckwipe didn't have the common courtesy to say "passing" or "excuse me" when he was on his little jog.