The annual Hiroshima argument has commenced in GD.

[rug]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023412139

It usually runs until the annual Nagasaki argument commences.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Oh, GAWD, NO.

I'll hang out in here till all of it passes...

[hrmjustin]

2. No way am I getting involved in that discussion.

[rug]

3. Especially when you're out of liquor.

[hrmjustin]

5. Yes!

[ZombieHorde]

4. Some of those debates are pretty fun. nt

[petronius]

6. It's difficult to judge with only seven posts, but it seems to be starting off

strong this year. Not mealy-mouthed and insipid, like some past seasons have been.

We may be on the way to a rarely-seen rating (5/5) on the flamewar scale!

[rug]

8. I nominate you to provide color commentary.

[Taverner]

7. Fuck war, fuck death, fuck bombs

No reason for any of these things

[Bucky]

66. Please don't fuck any bombs. You won't appreciate the "little death" you get.

[denbot]

9. Like the swallows returning to Capistrano.

At least the swallows munch a few pounds of mosquitos while passing through.

[rug]

10. 5 bucks says the thread turns to the NSA before dawn.

[denbot]

14. That would be a fools bet..

Which is to say, your on.. Now dawn in which time zone?

[rug]

15. Let's see, it started 12:15 am EDT. Let's give it six hours.

If nobody mentions the NSA by 6:15 am EDT, I give you 5 bucks. Otherwise, I'm doing to Disneyland!

[cliffordu]

22. NSA, MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!!!

[denbot]

59. Notice we ignored your obvious pro-Rug sandbagging..

It truly is the thought that counts..

[cliffordu]

61. Im just just here for the bux.

[denbot]

36. $5 Come to me.. My Pressssssssssciouss

Wow, I did not expect to win..

[rug]

37. Shit.

Where do you want me to send it?

[denbot]

51. If I get a load to Philly you'll have to cough it up towards a cheesesteak hoagie

Mmmmmm, cholesterol.

[rug]

52. My son's going to start school right outside there this month.

Just give me a heads up and I'll drag him along.

[Gravitycollapse]

11. I very nearly posted in that discussion. Glad I didn't.

[rug]

12. It is important to note what happened but it goes around and around every year.

I may get sucked in before it's over.

[cliffordu]

17. Just want you to know, I love ya, Rug, even if we get in the cage.

[rug]

19. Me too.

[cliffordu]

21. Well...

[monmouth3]

56. It's been about eight years for me and honest to dog, it's truly always the same...LOL..n/t

[olddots]

13. where is Eddie ?

[cliffordu]

16. I was just over there. I gotta bloody nose.

Fuck. Them people are crazy.

[rug]

18. Lol, I saw.

And you self-deleted three posts. You're slipping, cliff.

[cliffordu]

20. Actually - I had an Ipad glitch and hit post 4 times, and it posted the

same fucking thing 4 times.

But I like the idea that I had 4 insults so egregious that I deleted three of them

[alan_phillips]

23. Man, they get heated on here

Can anyone help me out as to somewhere that I can post, at least for now, to try and stay out of that kind of argument? I have figured out that this lounge seems to have less arguing on it, but is that it? I do want to eventually get into good discussions, but as I am new, I don't want to make any enemies yet either. Please help a noob

[rug]

33. Welcome to the Lounge!

You're in the right place.

[alan_phillips]

34. Thanks

yeah it seems like the place to be for just chilling and posting fun stuff. I may just start a thread a little later

[AsahinaKimi]

24. This makes me sad...

Mina no tame no inori

[cliffordu]

25. I am sorry, AsahinaKimi

I am sorry anyone is hurt by this discussion, and I am sorry for all the souls lost in WWII. On both sides.

[Wounded Bear]

26. Sorry, have to correct......All sides....

[cliffordu]

27. You are correct, All sides.

[In_The_Wind]

28. ~

[Wait Wut]

29. Maybe the words from my DIL will help a little.

I think I mentioned to you that she's Okinawan. Her great-uncle was lost in the Battle of Okinawa. Not as military, but as a farmer. Her mother still hates Americans, especially our military, to this day (even though it's sketchy as to which side took his life). It took a lot of work to convince her that her daughter wasn't marrying a monster.

Anyway, it was this time of year about 4 years ago when my son was sharing the story of how he and a few of his Marine buddies visited the Hiroshima Memorial on August 6th. He said they all cried, but were comforted by the Japanese men and women that were there. I noticed that my DIL had gotten very quiet and had her head down. I asked her how she felt about Hiroshima/Nagasaki, if talking about it bothered her.

"No. It was a very long time ago and I wasn't there. There are more important things to think about now." From what my son has told me, that's pretty close to what she told her mother when she informed her she was going to marry an American Marine.

War is unforgettable, especially to those that have lost family and friends. Who have seen the devastation. I can't know how my DIL's mother feels today about the loss so many years ago of a favorite uncle. I do know how much I love my DIL and how I would fight to protect her from anyone and anything. So, though Hiroshima, Nagasaki, the Holocaust, etc. may still live in the physical and emotional scars of war, we've never lost our ability to love, forgive, learn.

The discussion shouldn't be as vicious as it is in that thread. Nobody was pure.

Peace, AsahinaKim.

[pipi_k]

31. This...

Anyway, it was this time of year about 4 years ago when my son was sharing the story of how he and a few of his Marine buddies visited the Hiroshima Memorial on August 6th. He said they all cried, but were comforted by the Japanese men and women that were there.

is making me weepy...

In a happy and sad way...

[MiddleFingerMom]

48. This, indeed. Beautiful. Thank you.

[rug]

35. It was a monstrous mass killing of civilians.

I just wish GD would pause and look at the human impact instead of rehashing the politics of it.

[Call Me Wesley]

54. I am sorry

for this being the grounds of a 'jokeful' post in the Lounge. Dogeza.

[pipi_k]

30. One way to get them

to stop fighting each other and focus on a common enemy, and that's to go in and declare that you can see both sides of the issue.

Which I can.

But I'm not crazy, so I'll stay out of the cesspool.

[Puzzledtraveller]

32. Hiroshima Mon Amour

[AsahinaKimi]

39. HATE FILLED MESSAGE

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=137137

[rug]

40. Alert it.

Never mind, I will.

[AsahinaKimi]

41. I have never alerted on anyone..

I would not know what to say. kanashii na !

[rug]

42. I did. I'll send you the results.

[AsahinaKimi]

43. arigatou!

Thank you very much.

[rug]

44. Hidden.

At Tue Aug 6, 2013, 04:33 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

Cry Me a Freakin' River!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=137137

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

A current hate message that goes far beyond discussing Hiroshima.

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue Aug 6, 2013, 04:44 PM, and voted 5-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The posters comments are focused on WW2. While the comments may not be PC, they are probably accurate as to how people felt at the time.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given

ソーリー

[AsahinaKimi]

46. Yokatta!

Futatabi arigatōgozaimasu Thank you again.

[rug]

47. .

[AsahinaKimi]

49. ..

[MiddleFingerMom]

69. I very, very, VERY rarely alert. I would have if I had seen that. It's been hidden, but...

.
.
.
... I sent a follow-up email to Skinner asking why the HELL that person is still
a member of DU.
.
.
.
BTW, your post about the 12-year-old girl who died of leukemia following the
bombings? I actually cried at the word "Delicious."
.
.
Thank you (seriously) for posting that.
.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1018&pid=451521
.
.
.

[hrmjustin]

45. Yeah I saw this alert in MIRT.

How horrible. There were a few others as well.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

70. What about this dipshit?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023418248

[Dash87]

50. This is one of many DU annual traditions.

Sit back and enjoy the rage!

[Libertas1776]

53. Ah, is it that time already?

If I recall correctly from my university days, my history professor and scholar extraordinaire of all things Japan (Never met a white guy who could speak and read Japanese so well as he did) said that had the land invasion of the home islands gone through, "Operation Downfall" I believe, one of the options would have been to bomb the beaches with a nuclear weapon, wait about 48 hrs or so and then move the allied troops into the wasteland. If they were still resisting further inland, bomb them further inland with another nuke, then move the troops further in. If that didn't work, then bomb, rinse, and repeat...again. At that time, they weren't fully aware of the effects of radiation. So not only would you have had a completely irradiated Japan and millions dead from fighting, bombing, and radiation poisoning, you would have had over a million allied troops dead from fighting and tens of thousands eventually dying from radiation exposure. That, to me, is the stuff of nightmares.

It's a controversial subject that warrants scholarly debate and historical scrutiny, but in the end it was IMO the "least bad" of only bad available options. But as long as someone has an anecdotal story to pitch or a Oliver Stone documentary to cite, there will always be these manner of discussions in GD on the 6th of August with resident armchair historians revising history to fit their scripts.

.............
On a side note, oh to be a fly on the wall when Harry Truman made the decision. Just imagine it, you're just some low level politician, the "Senator from Pendergast," (the Pendergast Democratic machine that ruled from Kansas City) thrust into the Vice Presidency. Roosevelt and his advisers rarely discussed domestic and international policies with Truman, and he was left completely in the dark about the Manhattan Project as well as most other war related initiatives. Then BAM, less than 3 months after his swearing in as VP, "oh uh, Mr Truman, yeahhhh, it seems President Roosevelt has uh, ya know, died sooooo where just gonna go ahead and swear you in, mmmkay? Oh, by the way we've been building an experimental bomb since 1939 that has the potential to decimate an entire city, don't worry you're old boss was totally cool with it!...and uh, if you could just give us the authorization to drop these bad boys on some indeterminate locations over Japan, that'd be greaaat, mmmkay? In my imagination, Roosevelt's advisers sound like Bill Lumberg from Office Space, go figure

[AsahinaKimi]

55. Sadako Sasaki

more:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadako_Sasaki

[Libertas1776]

57. Peace

the most important thing to be taken from the events at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and even the firebombings of Tokyo and other cities which resulted in a much higher death toll but gets little coverage, is PEACE and that peace must always triumph over war. What should be taken from today's anniversary is that while the specific actions taken by all sides in August of 1945 can be debated, discussed, scrutinized over and over but it was some 15 odd years of warfare, tribulation, and imperial aggression that brought the world into such a position where such controversial, painful decisions had to be made. Peace must break out, not war. A world must exist where a conflict, whose only potential conclusions involve a million fold women and children being firebombed and a million fold soldiers dying on landing craft, can never happen again. Although, I don't think humans have evolved or will ever evolve enough to accept this as a whole.

[rug]

58. Thanks for posting that.

[Liberal Veteran]

60. I'm keeping my powder dry for the "Sherman's March to the Sea" argument.

[Libertas1776]

62. Lord have mercy!

Just the name of that Yankee scoundrel and I get me a spell of the vapors! Fetch me ma' smelling salts. In 150 years, I'll be sure to scribe a diatribe on a new fangled electrical forum place of discussion in protest!

[NoPasaran]

63. Forty-five years later, I still recall the words of my seventh grade Virginia history teacher

"As long as a heart beats in a Southern breast, the name of William Tecumseh Sherman will be forever damned!"

On the other hand, in my father's presence, it could be perilous to criticize Sherman, Franklin Roosevelt or Babe Ruth.

So I grew up already knowing that people could differing interpretations of events.

[alarimer]

64. There is not enough beer in the world to make me wade into that.

No, just no.

[Bucky]

65. There should be a requirement to read "Racing the Enemy" by Tsuyoshi Hasegawa

before participating in any such discussion. It's an amazing book that really clears out the cobwebs and makes revisionists on all sides blush in shame. An amazing and informative book.

[rug]

67. Here's our chance.

http://books.google.com/books?id=iPju1MrqgU4C&pg=PA7&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

Looks like it's all there and free.

[Bucky]

68. Thanks. I was worried that I hadn't wasted $24 buying a hard copy.

You put my mind to rest, ya big jackwagon.

[a la izquierda]

71. Ugh, I was on a jury just a few minutes ago.

In a truly hateful thread. Bunch of wannabe historians and Monday morning QBs.

[Kaleva]

72. It's DU's version of the Running of the Bulls.

[rug]

73. More like the Running of the Bullshit.

[NuclearDem]

74. Can someone whack some sense into me?

I don't know why I decided to join that madness.

I'll be hanging out in here on the 9th, that's for damn sure.

[rug]

75. Ooh, you were in the middle of it!

I tried to get in and pull you out but it was like trying to pull a cat out of a tornado.

[dbackjon]

76. Just wait until 2015!