Why do old gas station sites have to sit idle for over a year?...

[Locut0s]

I've seen lots of old gas stations be torn down and something else put up in their place. Every time this happens though they demolish the site and it has to sit as a fenced off barren lot for over a year before they can build something else on it. I assume it has to do with gas, heavy metals and or other toxins in the soil from the station. But I've never known the exact reason. What good does leaving it sit for a year do. Are they monitoring it during this time?

[NYC_SKP]

1. I think you're right on all points. Here's an EPA link:

http://www.epa.gov/region9/waste/ust/lustcleanup.html

Here in California we have very strict environmental laws. I know of many former gas station sites that for some reason lay empty and others that have had excavation being done over several years.

It makes sense that if there was a violation then there would have to be long-term monitoring and significant treatment of the site before anything permanent can be done with it.

There are a lot of properties that cannot be developed or built upon because of contamination and the former owner may be gone with nobody left to cover the costs and associated fines and penalties.

[Locut0s]

2. Thanks. Yes I thought about leaking USTs but...

But I believe this is done for every gas station that is mothballed. I could be wrong but I can't remember seeing a single gas station here that has not gone through a long period of sitting idle. It couldn't be that ALL gas stations have leaking tanks right?

[NYC_SKP]

3. Possibly all tank sites require testing for decommissioning.

It's even possible that all tanks leak, or that some presence of pollutants is acceptable and expected and this leads to a requirement to find out how badly the soil has been contaminated.

If this was a weekday afternoon I could probably make a call and find out with greater certainty what it is all about.

[Locut0s]

4. Lol that would be above an beyond the call for a simple thread lol...

But I think you are right, it's likely linked to the underground tanks.

[olddots]

5. I drive by a gas station that was demolished 8 years ago

and nothing has been done to the plot of semi prime real estate except a chain link fence .Fossil fuel sure has turned into an idea that back fired in the long run .

[Rhiannon12866]

6. You're right and I've seen them, too. It's because the ground is contaminated:

Gas stations, dotting America's cities and landscape, provide an invaluable product - gasoline - to
power the millions of cars, motorcycles, boats, and other vehicles in our country. But old,
abandoned gas stations can be eyesores and blight communities. Across America, local communities are grappling with what to do about polluted, abandoned gas stations and other petroleum contaminated properties, commonly called petroleum brownfields. Many citizens and businesses shy away from these properties, fearful of possible lasting effects and the potential liability of environmental contamination.

http://www.epa.gov/region4/usttoolkit/pdfs/reuse/reuseofabandonedgasstationsitesfeb2004.pdf

[HeiressofBickworth]

7. I'm thinking maybe it's not so much an environmental issue

but an economic one. If a gas station closes because it's a failed enterprise, it may not be located in a viable place. And, if a prior business failed at that location, new businesses may be reluctant to open another one.

There's an intersection near my house. A 7-11 on one corner, small mostly vacant strip mall on another corner, house on 3rd corner and vacant lot where gas and service station went out of business and was torn down. I can see that the 7-11 is doing ok -- there are a couple of apartment complexes nearby who would be customers. The businesses in the strip mall obviously didn't do well and are gone and nothing else is going in any of those stores. So why would anyone invest building and development money in the 4th corner of an intersection that isn't making much money for any of the businesses.

And then, again, it might be environmental after all.

[Jenoch]

11. I think you are correct.

It probably varies from state to state because of local laws. I know that in Minnesota when it comes time to dig out a petroleum tank the soil is tested. If it tests positive for petroleum distillates, then a portable kiln is brought in. The contaminated soil is basically incinerated and put back into the ground.

[Orrex]

8. Sometimes it takes a long time to pass gas

[antiquie]

9. I am shocked.

I was expecting this post from MFM.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

12. MFM would not agree ...

... it takes no time at all to pass gas.

Let me demonstrate ... pull my finger ...



abandoned petroleum waste sites, however ...

[NV Whino]

10. It has to do with contaminated soil

You have two choices. You can excavate the site and replace the soil, or you can let it sit idle for X number of years. Seems to me X equals 15 to 20 years. A long time at any rate.

Based on the number of lots I've. Seen sitting empty, it appears to be more economical to let the property sit idle.

Note: tanks have to be removed whether you let it sit or not.

[ConcernedCanuk]

15. you got it . .

.
.
.

Been a mechanic all my life, worked in many gas stations.

Lots of connections between the tanks and the pumps that leak a tiny bit, but over many decades, they can pollute quite a bit.

The CP Rail shop I worked in in Toronto had been around for over 100 years, hydraulic oil leaks, fuel spills, and even used to change the oil on the machines by just letting it drop on the ground.

Site was so polluted that the cost to clean it up would have been astronomical, - SO

CP Rail found a loophole - just a point of interest,

this was prime property in downtown Toronto in a residential area.

Regulations are pretty stiff if you want to put up residential buildings, or anything with a basement.

How to "solve" the problem?

Pave the whole property and put all the buildings on cement slabs, NOT residential buildings, but stores and warehouses.

And that's exactly what CP Rail did, just covered up their pollution,

but it is still there . . . .

(sigh)

CC

[quadrature]

13. undergroung tanks --> Detroit property syndrome..nt

[dr.strangelove]

14. Initially, all sites with USTs must be tested at closure

If the gas station is abandoning the USTs (Underground Storage Tanks) they must test them and usually remove them, though I have seen regulators approve cleaning them, filling them and leaving them in place if they tested sound. Most long term gas stations have had a variety of spills or leaks, many just ground bases spills from cars or hose connections, but some longterm underground seepages. Depending on the condition of the soil, various methods to remediate the soil, or remove it entirely for disposal, may be required. This takes time. Also, some testing requires a certain water table, which is sometimes tied to seasons and some work can not be completed if there is a deep frost line. So these things all play on why a closed fuel service station is out of pocket for some period of time after closure. Dry cleaners also have lots of testing from the PERC they used, which is some nasty stuff. They are often closed for a long time when abandoned.

[warrior1]

16. we had a place like that on Folsom blvd in Sacramento

he laid bare for at least 15 years. They finally put a building in the same spot. It was indeed a eye sore.