Game of Thrones 6.3 "Oathbreaker" (spoiler alert)

[NewJeffCT]

Bran glimpses the past; Daenerys learns what's in store for her; Tommen faces the High Sparrow; Arya trains to be No One; Varys comes up with a solution to a vexing problem; Ramsay gets a gift.

[NewJeffCT]

1. some articles from the past week

The SNL sketch:
http://screencrush.com/snl-game-of-thrones-snow-twist/

http://watchersonthewall.com/looking-forward-game-thrones-ep-603-breaking-news-violence-game-thrones-may-persist-end-game-thrones/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2016/05/07/heres-why-jon-snow-is-so-important-to-game-of-thrones/#79a5b2f96997

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/game-thrones-emilia-clarke-reveals-7923729

[Baitball Blogger]

2. The one on Jon was excellent. Spoiler question below

Question that needs some cloak and dagger:


















Daenery is Jon Snows aunt, correct? And, I think the dragon riders will be Bran, Tyrion and Daenery. Jon will fight the white walkers with the wildings on the ground and their allies.

[NewJeffCT]

3. Yes

Rhaegar is Dany's older brother, so she is his aunt. But, if Jon was legally the child of Rhaegar, he would have a better claim to the throne than Daenerys. (if Rhaegar somehow divorced Elia Martell and married Lyanna Stark in secret...)

[XemaSab]

4. You're missing a step, maybe

Rhaegar, Viserys, and Dany were children of the Mad King.

Rhaegar was the heir, but he died before the Mad King died, so then Viserys became the heir. When the Mad King died, Viserys would have become king, but he was exiled.

Or would Aegon have succeeded had he not died?

Ugh.

[NewJeffCT]

5. Since Rhaegar was the crown prince

I believe his children would be king before Viserys. It's possible Viserys would have been regent or something like that, and likely would not have given up the power easily.

[intrepidity]

67. This is an important question

When a "crown prince" dies and leaves a pregnant wife (for argument's sake), does the unborn child have any claim to the throne?

Plus, Rhaegar died before his father, the King, so wouldn't that rule him out as successor no matter what? That the next brother Viserys is rightful claimant? In that case, Dany would have more claim than Jon, right?

[NewJeffCT]

6. A few more articles

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2016/05/08/why-game-of-thrones-isnt-actually-spoiling-many-future-book-plotlines/#39cde95b10c5

http://comicbook.com/2016/05/06/who-dies-in-the-oathkeeper-episode-of-game-of-thrones-/

http://www.bustle.com/articles/158954-the-tower-of-joy-jon-snow-connection-on-game-of-thrones-may-prove-rlj

[NewJeffCT]

7. should be interesting

to see how Jon coming back to life plays out...

I also heard that (spoiler alert) - [font color=white] we may get the return of another Stark tonight. [/font]

[Baitball Blogger]

41. You were right about the other Stark.

1) Another Direwolf down.

2) Bran can change the past, I bet.

[NewJeffCT]

8. just about to kick off

can't wait

[NewJeffCT]

9. close up on Davos

looking at Jon Snow and his naked body

[NewJeffCT]

10. Jon

seems to be at a loss.

[NewJeffCT]

11. Melisandre is also shocked

she asks him if he saw anything after he died

[NewJeffCT]

12. Tormund says everybody thinks Jon is a god

but, Tormund sets him straight.

[Solly Mack]

13. Jon can't be a god and I'll have to take Tormund's word for it.

[Solly Mack]

14. Poor Sam.

Howland Reed! (finally)

[NewJeffCT]

15. Yes

the Tower of Joy. Looks like we won't get the results tonight?

[Solly Mack]

17. Guess not. For a second there I thought they were killing Reed off

and the truth would have to come from elsewhere.

[NewJeffCT]

20. there is some speculation

that Ned came away with two babies - one Jon Snow, and then other went to Howland Reed to be raised there.

[Solly Mack]

22. Oh, my. That would be unexpected and without hint nor clue in the books.

Unless the various stories of Ned with a child (by boat/by road) are all true and only the parentage kept secret.

[NewJeffCT]

24. well

Ned took Jon Snow and Howland took the baby that grew up to be Meera. She is described physically in terms that are similar to how Jon is described.

Not sure I buy it, but I've heard the theory

[Solly Mack]

26. That could be. I'll have to think about it.

Could be why she's still alive.

1 male, 2 female Targaryens.

[Solly Mack]

16. Bran's not going to be the "new" old man in the tree? My, my, my.

[NewJeffCT]

18. and thought for sure

that was going to happen

[Solly Mack]

19. Maybe Bran will play the part of telling the truth about Jon?

But in the books, he probably is the new old man.

[NewJeffCT]

21. I think you are right

about Bran in the books

[Solly Mack]

23. I believe the roots are already entering him in the book, yes?

[Baitball Blogger]

42. Interesting.

Maybe he's trying to correct a mistake he made in the past? Otherwise, why wait a thousand years?

[Solly Mack]

46. His time, perhaps.

[Solly Mack]

25. OK. Someone go get Daenerys already.

Please don't drag that storyline out either. Snooze-fest.

[Oneironaut]

56. I give it 1-2 episodes before they get roasted :)

I'm starting to get bored of the Mereen subplot as a whole. I'm not really sure what the point of the Sons of the Harpy are anymore in grand scheme of things except being a temporary foil to Tyrion and Danny. I don't think they'll make it much further though.

[NewJeffCT]

27. was it just me

or, was Qyburn really creepy with those kids?

[Solly Mack]

28. Not just you.

[Baitball Blogger]

43. Bad feeling with that one.

[Solly Mack]

60. Well, yeah. He's one sick puppy.

But then so is Cersei.

[cemaphonic]

48. Qyburn is always creepy

It's what he does.

[XemaSab]

49. I don't know where you were getting that from

[jonno99]

76. My esteem has grown greatly for Varys - and this episode cemented it.

In the early seasons he seemed to be just another slime-ball like Littlefinger. Its nice to be proven wrong (so far anyway...).

Qyburn, on the other hand? ehhh, I squirm when I see him around children...

[Solly Mack]

29. She would. She would have "that thing" murder you all.

[NewJeffCT]

30. I would not have been surprised

we've had a lot of high level bloodletting so far this season

[Solly Mack]

31. Oh, kill the sparrow already.

[NewJeffCT]

32. I have a feeling

he may be around for a while.

[Solly Mack]

33. Yes

[Lazy Daisy]

40. I got a feeling king Tommen

would be turned into a religious zealot from his "chats" with the sparrow

[Solly Mack]

34. I'm more than a little pissed at Arya getting hit.

and she does, too, have a name. Sick of all that.

She's Arya Stark, dammit.

[Solly Mack]

35. No! No! No! No!

[NewJeffCT]

36. there must always be

A Stark in Winterfell... and now there is

[Solly Mack]

38. Not little Rickon, though. :(

[Solly Mack]

37. No more Starks dying. Sheesh.

Poor Shaggydog.

WTF!

I might not read the remaining books if they ever come out.

Dear Jon - go save your cousins. ALL of your cousins. Thank you.

[NewJeffCT]

39. And now my watch has ended

Jon is going to wreak havoc on the Boltons now.

[Baitball Blogger]

44. No one is going to argue with him.

[DVRacer]

45. That hanging was so cold showing the eyes like that

[me b zola]

50. Yup. When Jon died his obligation to the Knight's Watch was complete

Now he is free to be his own man.

[NewJeffCT]

51. The Oath

"Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come."

[me b zola]

52. Exactly.

Sad that Ygritte is dead. It will be interesting to see how Jon's experiences will translate to how he goes forward.

[Solly Mack]

58. Meet Sansa along the way, perhaps.

Use the Free Folk as his army. They think him a god anyway.

Except a lot of the North won't like "wildings" going about their homes.

Ghost gave Jon a startled look when he got off the table. Ghost was probably thinking that warging was one thing, coming back from death another.

Jon won't stray too far from the wall - he knows the danger beyond the wall is a danger to them all.

His whole purpose (as commander), and the reason he died, was to defend the wall and the realm from the white walkers.

I think Jon lied about what he saw while dead.

Arya asked, "What name would you have me say?" - that's what they do when they kill people - say a name.

So...is her transformation complete or is Arya still Arya?

I'm still ticked this AM over Shaggydog, Rickon and Osha - unless, somehow, they can both kick some Bolton ass. Rickon looked terrified.

Still, poor Shaggydog Stark. They are Starks, however, and Starks do die gruesome deaths.

Nymeria, Ghost and Summer remain. Well, I hope Nymeria is still alive. (maybe even Shaggydog? )

If Bran is not the next weirwood tree guru, then what is Bran's purpose?

I'm mentally smacking GRRM right now.

[Baitball Blogger]

72. The capture of Rickon and Osha is perplexing.

And that direwolf didn't look huge, like a direwolf should. I wonder if this is a ruse?

Nymeria may not only be alive, but, why wouldn't she go forth and be fruitful?

Bran's purpose is to bring history into the present and give meaning to alliances that would not otherwise happen. Without realizing that R + L = J, J wouldn't be able to establish his claim on the throne; this means that Danny has no reason to see him as anything but an ally.

[Solly Mack]

74. Unless it was no capture but an intended placement - a ruse, like you suggested.

Yeah - Bran seems destined to verify the truth.

I hope Nymeria did multiply as she did in the book.

[dilby]

47. I hate this season, the hour goes too fast.

I feel like a little kid with my mom reading one chapter of The Hobbit before bed. I am dying to know what happens next, I devoured every book when they came out and now I waiting patiently for the next episode like I used to wait for my mom to read a chapter.

[NewJeffCT]

53. Yes

the hours do tend to fly by - and, we're already 30% done with the season after 3 episodes.

[Mike Daniels]

54. So if Cersei is planning on using zombie Gregor as her "champion" in her upcoming trial

what are the odds that the "gravedigger" that Brienne and Podrick see from a distance in Feast of Crows will be the Faith's champion?

[Oneironaut]

57. Clegane Bowl?

[NewJeffCT]

61. that's what a lot of fans are hoping for

the final showdown - Gregor vs Sandor, the Mountain vs the Hound.

[Oneironaut]

55. I'm guessing Jon Snow is being born in that tower, right?

It seems like the "Jon is a Targaryen" theory is coming to fruition. Does this mean that Jon Snow can't be burned as well (I know all Targaryens don't have the gift, given Dany's brother's gruesome end, but I wonder)?

[Solly Mack]

59. That is the favorite thinking.

That Jon is being born in the tower to Lyanna and Rhaegar Targaryen, and that she is now his wife, which explains the King's Guard protecting her and the heir with their lives.

I thought they were going to test the fire thing when Jon died, since they were supposed to burn his body as quickly as possible.

I enjoyed seeing Ned Stark again - even if it was a young Ned.

[mainstreetonce]

62. Why did Ned Stark let his wife think Jon was his son?

Was there a reason to protect that truth? Does Jon have any idea who he really is!

[Oneironaut]

63. Correct if I'm wrong, but weren't the Baratheons killing all Targaryens?

If his true identity were revealed, he would have been killed.

[Islandurp]

64. Let me just say...

That it is so damn nice to finally have no idea what is going to happen in future episodes.

[Solly Mack]

65. For those who have read the books - Since the show is going beyond the written books,

have you tried not to guess what comes next from what you already know in the books? Because the show has changed a good many things. (Getting Sansa up North with a quickness)

Other than Jon, I mean.

Like the Manderly's role, for example. All the conspiring prior to the wedding of Ramsay and fake- Arya/Jeyne (in the books) - Sansa in the show.

With (the show) Jon rising and leaving the wall, with the Free Folk at his disposal, with Brienne and Sansa on the way, with Rickon and Osha at Winterfell, with Arya becoming Faceless (if she really does) and Bran not becoming the next old man in the tree - a convergence coming?

Do any of them know they can warg besides Bran? (in the show)

Each time Arya fought with the sticks, I kept waiting for that damn cat that never showed. So, is warging not important to the Starks after all?

For all his talk of grimly killing anyone and everyone he chooses, GRRM still had to have an ending in mind, since he claimed to and told the show's producers - then not all Starks can die because that wouldn't be in keeping with what needs to be done to right the realm and everything about those books has been about righting the realm.

Varys entire purpose is to right the realm. He gets others to join in that cause. He sees that as Daenarys Targaryen returning to the throne. But then maybe any Targaryen would do for his purpose, as long as they are Targaryen. Those he views as the rightful rulers, and those he views as just and kind Targaryens. (as Rhaegar would have been)

Littlefinger is more about moving pieces around to better place himself in power. Not as a ruler, but as the power behind the throne. That is his downfall. He wants to be Tywin Lannister - and while Tywin got less than he deserved, he still died an inglorious death.


Oh, well. We shall see.

[NewJeffCT]

66. In comparison to the books

it looks like the show may still have the Battle of Meereen, but just with Tyrion helping coordinate the defenses instead of Ser Barristan, Daario and others. Not sure if the Ironborn will be able to get out there or not? But, I can see Essos shaping up that way - they just said that the wise masters have taken back Astapor and Yunkai, as well as Volantis. So, I can see them marching toward Meereen and putting it under siege - and, then Dany, her dragons and the Dothraki ride to their rescue in episode 9 or 10.

It looks like we'll have a showdown with the Wildings vs the Boltons, but will Jon be able to get some help vs the Boltons? Stannis beat them pretty badly, and he lost to the Boltons later. We've had no hints of the wild clans of the North, the Crannogmen or the Mormonts on Bear Island lately. Maybe Littlefinger has his Valemen on the march?

No idea where Arya and Sansa will end up, though Sophie Turner kind of hinted she at least survives the season.

[Solly Mack]

69. I think you're right about the battle of Meereen. It happening along those lines.

Tyrion has already proven his skill at such things.

I've been wondering about the wilder clans up North too. Last time we heard, Bear Island proclaimed fealty to the Starks only, Robb to be exact.

I don't think the Reed allegiance is in question. They've proven they will give their lives and those of their children for the Starks and legend - or the old ways that are not so old.

Smalljon could be setting Ramsay up. The North remembers and all that.

Jon is the product of both his uncles, Ned especially. He will also remember; and though he will be angry at Ned at first, he'll understand why he had to lie. I'm betting Benjen knew the truth as well.

ETA: There might be something to the Meera/Jon thing.

[NewJeffCT]

73. However

I don't think we'll be getting Lord Manderly's Frey Pie...

but, supposedly, they did do some casting for more than one Northern Lord - we've seen an Umber and a Karstark. Will we get a Mormont, and older Howland Reed or a Manderly?

[Solly Mack]

75. I think HR will make an appearance.

Maybe another Mormont.

Shame about the pie, though. Pie is the best possible use of a Frey.

[intrepidity]

77. Re Meere/Jon

do you mean that they are twins? I don't see how that helps the story, or how Reed and Ned both took home supposed bastards, and nobody ever mentioned that coincidence?

[Solly Mack]

78. I don't see how it helps either, but that doesn't mean GRRM wouldn't pull such a twist.

Well, other than as a twist.

There are varying accounts of how Ned took a child back to Winterfell. People along the way in the books have told different accounts of how that came to be.

Maybe Ned planted the stories. Maybe they are all just rumors. Maybe they all contain a grain of truth.

(Wylla, wet nurse at Starfall (Edric Dayne's telling) or camp follower's name according to Robert's knowledge of Ned's "bastard", Ashara Dayne (maybe didn't kill her child or herself but became Lemore), and the fisherman's daughter who saved Ned supposedly - from Lord Godric's telling of Ned's bastard)

Maybe, in the books, the false Aegon Targaryen is actually a Stark, through Lady Ashara Dayne, (for example) Barristan Selmy says Daenarys looks like Ashara, who looks like a Targaryen herself - purple eyes and all.

Maybe Meera is Jon's twin and HR took her back to the swamps, and from the books, no one - absolutely no one - from the outside gets in the swamps without an invite. So no one could remark on her birth or even know enough to contradict that HR is her actual father. (or not) Reeds are notoriously loyal to the Starks - because of Lyanna's kindness and Ned's friendship.

So, Maybe Jon and Meera are twins, the birth being too much for Lyanna without assistance - which the King's Guard could not provide. Maybe Howland took one and Ned the other, to better protect them. One child would be hard enough to explain and Ned did promise his sister. Ned parted ways with Robert over the murder of the Targaryen young. Tywin made the call, but Robert supported the effort. Ned would not allow Robert to murder Lyanna's child or children. His own seed he could not claim, but his blood, and that of his dying sister's - he could. Maybe Ned's shame is real - he did cheat on Catelyn (with Ashara) - but the rest is necessary conjecture to protect Jon Targaryen. (Jon's parentage)

Maybe Aegon is Aegon Stark, and not the Targaryen child Varys claims to have saved, the true son of Ned and Ashara, resulting from a love affair during the False Spring tourney at Harrenhal. Varys could be lying. He could also know the truth and is using it to benefit of his aims.


But who knows? I'm not sure even GRRM does. (or the books would have already been published! Dammit!!)

Sorry, that was me whining.

So, other than an interesting twist, it doesn't move the story to its conclusion - but it does add intrigue and it does keep the readers guessing.

[intrepidity]

68. So why did Ned lie about what Reed did?

was there some sort of quid pro quo after they discovered Lyanna's situation? Like, I won't tell if you don't?

[Solly Mack]

79. Dishonorable or not, that knife in the back saved Ned's life

allowing Ned to save Jon's life. Ned would honor HR for the life saved - both lives saved. By being alive, Ned was able to save a part of his sister and Ned appreciates that chance, I think.

He would also be more than a little put off by it, for Ned was nothing if not honorable.

Eddard Stark did not win honorably (to his thinking) and a man he admired was wounded, perhaps fatally, from a knife to the back. Ned dealt the final blow but that blow was made possible because of Howland Reed's less than honorable deed.

Ned was a mission to save Lyanna - he would wear any shame to do so - and did until his dying day.

But that's just my thinking.

[Ron Obvious]

70. Just watched it...

I'm bummed Jon Snow didn't forgive Ollie and the rebels. I think they would have been his most loyal followers from then on.

I don't know how I feel about this episode yet. Sad, somehow, but I'm not sure why.

So who stabbed the Targaryen in the back when he was fighting Ned Stark in the flashback scene? What did I miss?

Maybe I need to watch again.

On edit: I suppose that was Howland Reed killing Arthur Dayne and not the kidnapping Targaryen, right? Damn, I'm confused. Bad audio...

[NewJeffCT]

71. I don't think Ser Aliser

would have been loyal to Jon - he still would have resented him for letting the Wildlings through the wall.